Let's Start A Riot?!?!

Sounds like every liberal argument in the nation.

"If you aren't with me, and you don't openly support my cause, you must be a white supremacist!"

Thank you so much.

Its enough and its BIG. I'm Jewish and we became mostly accepted as white in my lifetime.

I had an albino black friend long ago. Facial features pure African. Couldn't pass if he tried.

The right wing loudmouth contingent understands neither hypocrisy nor irony.

MOTHER TRUCKING /THREAD

Thread is O V A H over. This may be the best thing I will see in 2020. I can't believe it is being processed by my brain as I am typing this reply. We really are living in the best moment of 2020 the first time we go back and look at that line again like you're going to do right now.

Wow. If this entire thread was worth only one thing and nothing else... it is that line. I don't think you knew how quotable you were being when you typed that.

*eye roll*

You do realize that leftism policies are dripping with hypocrisy.

Black Lives Matter, except when they don't.

Racism isn't accepted in the leftist community, except when it is accepted, multiple times.

There are other examples of leftism hypocrisy, but that goes beyond the scope of this thread, like the #MeToo movement, the so-called "peaceful party", and other perfect examples of current levels of leftism hypocrisy.

So, don't play "Holier Than Thou!" on the right, leftism is dirtier than the right ever was.

Ummm... dude. He has an albino black friend. He understands.

DID YOU JUST ASSUME CHANTI'S GENDER? HOW SEXIST OF YOU!!!!

Kidding aside, it doesn't matter. Chanti is going to defend the left like a good little hippie. She will never betray her side, even if the evil of leftism is reveal to the general public as it is.

these past few pages talking about albinos reminded me of this commercial ~

By your powers combined: I can derail any thread!

If Garuda.Chanti can double-post, so can I.

Going back on topic:

A point was made a while back about the use of force in America.

I finally found some hard data for 2019 that the FBI uses (source) about the shootings of unarmed civilians by police. In 2019 a total of 1,099 civilians were killed by police officers in the line of duty (aka while responding to incidents), of which only 56 people were unarmed when they were killed. Of those 56 people who were killed, 25 of them were white, while only 15 where black. That also means that 1,043 individuals who died out of 1,099 were carrying a weapon (the stats don't show if they were illegally obtained, or were used against the officers in question).

That's right, of the 1,099 people who died in 2019 by police officers, only 56 could be considered "unjustified" and only 15 of them were "black civilians killed unjustly."

So much for the notion of rampant police brutality and rampant police shootings.

while good numbers (meaning, actual numbers with a source not just MAGIC!), like all stats these days they still require some breaking down. Do we really want to consider the death of a person as justified just because they had a weapon on them? That's a pretty horrific precedent. We don't know (as you point out) if their weapon was legally obtained and carried, if it was used, anything. And I'll be honest- even if illegally obtained if it wasn't used during the course of the encounter with law enforcement, I still don't think someone carrying an illegally obtained firearm deserves to be shot. Arrested and charged, sure, but not shot.

One last point- as of July 2016, 12.6% of the population identified as African American. 15 of 56 deaths is 26%. As of the 2010 Census, 72% of Americas identify as white. 25 of 56 deaths is 44%.

Don't forget how many had guns placed in their dead hands after the fact.

yup- and check a quick addition I had to make because I forgot even WITH those numbers, its still outta whack.

In the US most people who are Jewish identify as liberal. The other portion identify as Zionist/Israeli (there is overlap) and consider themselves conservative.

The racial demographics of the nation as a whole are completely irrelevant for your argument.

I certainly won't disagree off the bat, I just am curious why you think they are pointless for my argument. I listed them because I felt that even if the numbers are small, they don't represent an accurate split of "unjustified police-related murders" across the population, that percentage wise more African-Americans are unjustifiably killed than Caucasians. Is this simply because of racism? Or that African-Americans have an unbalanced amount of interactions with Law Enforcement, meaning opportunity is higher for such "accidents"?

Again, not gonna completely off the bat disagree, I'm more curious than anything for the sake of discussion and growth from both of us to see the other perspective.

I really hope he's aware about the lack of info regarding the legality of the weapon, and whether the weapon was even drawn makes his justified death statistic completely moot.

Yes, it doesn't show actual individual incidences, as it is just hard data (aka if a person had a weapon on them at the time of death, it counted as having a weapon on them at the time of death, but it doesn't show if that weapon was used against the officer or had any bearing on their death).

I only signified the fact that alot of noise by certain people and posters are that police officers shoot unarmed citizens on a daily basis. This has been proven false by the above data. And I think we can safely say that greater than 50% and less than 90% of those who had weapons on them at the time of death were using such weapons against the officers in question. This is due to the nature of such assaults (either on purpose, or by "suicide-by-cop deaths).

That has zero purpose in this argument. The sample size is too small, you cannot compare 56 people against 386 million.

Good, you have only 1,043 deaths to prove that the weapon was placed after the fact. Get on it, Holmes.

If you honestly think that even a majority (greater than 50%) of the 1,043 deaths were planted evidence, you really need to prove it.

While cops are humans like you and me, that doesn't mean we must always assume the absolute worst of them.

Probably also shouldn't assume the best either.

As you said, they're humans. In positions of authority at that.

Reading comprehension much?

If you want, go ahead and prove that all, most, some, or even a few of those deaths are unjustified. I just showed data stating that the notion that police officers kill unarmed citizens on a regular basis is completely false. I also inferred that at least 56 deaths, of which only 15 were done against black citizens, could be considered unjustified.

I'm not going to look at the public records of the 1,099 deaths. I don't have to prove anything other than what I stated, which I believe I did. If you want to continue with your head in the hole because the truth hurts your narrative, by all means, that's your right to do so. Just remember this: You are wrong, and you will always be wrong.

Because the numbers and %s are only used when it’s conducive to a bad faith argument that they feel is lock solid.

Example: “why should we care about police brutality in the inner city when those communities need to focus on black on black crime”

So let’s look at the FBI table:

Shows nominally that there is more white on white crime than that of any ethnic group. Whereas black on black crime as a percentage is higher. This is mainly due to the huge disparity in overall population numbers between the two ethnic groups.

Which reveals that the talking point about black on black crime is weak and oddly only used by one demographic.

Contrasted with the tactic of nominally when conducive: like now they refer to the same FBI data to argue that nominally more whites are killed by cops. so why are we only making a big deal about that?

Conveniently ignoring that as a percentage of population and interactions with police the occurrence is greater among the African American community.

Yet, somehow these same people who argue in bad faith will throw magical statements like African Americans commit 5x more crime than anyone else. Which we’ve seen stated in this thread a few pages back.

The entirety of the U.S. population isn’t having encounters with police, so drawing from that population for comparison is moot. Look at the demographics for those committing crimes. Even then it would be a logical fallacy to claim causation, but at least you’d be closer to the mark.

I don't assume the best either, but I also don't assume that there are 1,099 cops who are intentional killers either.

Maybe 60. And those need to be charged with homicide at the very least. But not 1,099.