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Let's start a riot?!?!
By Prong 2020-06-02 20:10:30
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »They see your argument. Your argument is, condemn what you see as the initial offender, not the second or responding offenses. They are condemning the initial actions of the bad cops that led to this, although, looters loot during hurricanes, too so...some people just want to see the world burn, police violence has nothing to do with those people's actions, they are just opportunists.
So there's nothing we can do about looters, cause looters gonna loot, that's exactly what everyone "supporting" the looters has been saying. It's something that happens when the opportunity arises.
Quote: The problem you are saying is and I agree, if you focus on JUST that, then you miss the message of those with a legitimate gripe. We get that. What we don't get is, how you can ASSUME every single cop overs for others cops. I'm sure there are plenty who do, but you've had jobs, you don't necessarily know what EVERY other employee is doing on a daily basis. Quote: Nobody is saying some cops don't stereotype, no cops are racist, the system doesn't protect cops and that something needs done about the underlying issues that led to this point. They are just saying in the context of THIS conversation, they aren't willing to condemn every single cop being that, we don't know them all. We don't know their circumstances, and it's very hard when worrying about getting a check to pay for your family to be just and bold and outspoken against your fellow officers. Not that they shouldn't be it's just, I'm not walking in their shoes so who am I to judge them? But, nobody is saying that the actions of cops did not cause this and that it is the cops that need to change.
Then they need to open their eyes. This past week has shown that far more cops are guilty of either being on the offense or passively assisting being on the offense than there are that are against this offense. If there were so many good cops, they would stop the bad ones and shut this whole thing down. Except for a few rare cases, that is NOT the reality. This makes them all (the ones in bigger cities putting down protests) guilty to some degree.
The ones in big cities "putting down" protests are doing so because that is their job, it's what they are paid to do and their direct supervisors are telling them to do so.
I know in a perfect ideological world that EVERY cop should just, take off the badge, drop his gun and join the protesters but as I said, people need their jobs. It's easy for us to sit and tell them what they should do when we don't walk in their shoes.
That doesn't explain the plethora of cops "doing their job" that in reality is engaging in instigation and causing pain to others. There are countless clips of cops doing "drive by macing" and being aggressive for no reason, I have a few linked a few pages back. This is why I continue to hark back to what started this, because you're saying the cops are doing their job, and I'm saying if the cops actually did their job, NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO BEGIN WITH.
The cops are now justifying their actions, and you're perpetuating their argument, because they riled people up to be aggressive. And now it's being used to excuse all of the bad actions they have been making. And you're here buying it hook, line and sinker. If they're the heroes and the good guys, maybe they should start *** acting like it.
Ok you're ignoring what people say then claiming they are ignoring you. Go drink some herbal tea and stop being a a~hole for no good reason. Nobody here is making excuses for the bad actions of cops, if that is what you see, that's on you.
 Garuda.Chanti
Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11743
By Garuda.Chanti 2020-06-02 20:10:56
About 90% of these last few pages should really have been in P&R.
Just saying.
You have to look for P&R and whitelist it.
[+]
By Asura.Gnawclaw 2020-06-02 20:12:01
It’s just surreal seeing a large group here promoting looting and violence and saying all cops are murderers. Literally sitting here happy when cops die or small businesses destroyed among other injustices. Sad times we live in. Literally not happening, JFTC.
It’s all over social media What we say here is all over social media?
Some of what I said applies here, the rest is social media. Yesterday "Dabackpack" come into the thread and said anyone who doesn't support the looting and violence are enemies to this movement.
You know, with that.. I mean of course I disagree with that notion. I ended up sending them a private message saying I understand their frustration though.
I don't think they actually believe that specific (imo very misguided) thing, just that tension is through the roof right now and everyone is hitting a limit and sometimes saying dumb stuff in the moment. At least I hope they're not that extreme. They seemed more pissed off about the statistics being cherry picked and misrepresented by a certain very bad actor in here.
FWIW I personally don't think you're a 'boot licker' or an 'enemy of the movement' or something either. It's uncalled for and divisive, imo. Our priorities on what we're focusing on are probably different but we're on the same side. Reform needs to happen. Now its just a matter of how.
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Posts: 2666
By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2020-06-02 20:12:18
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »They see your argument. Your argument is, condemn what you see as the initial offender, not the second or responding offenses. They are condemning the initial actions of the bad cops that led to this, although, looters loot during hurricanes, too so...some people just want to see the world burn, police violence has nothing to do with those people's actions, they are just opportunists.
So there's nothing we can do about looters, cause looters gonna loot, that's exactly what everyone "supporting" the looters has been saying. It's something that happens when the opportunity arises.
Quote: The problem you are saying is and I agree, if you focus on JUST that, then you miss the message of those with a legitimate gripe. We get that. What we don't get is, how you can ASSUME every single cop overs for others cops. I'm sure there are plenty who do, but you've had jobs, you don't necessarily know what EVERY other employee is doing on a daily basis. Quote: Nobody is saying some cops don't stereotype, no cops are racist, the system doesn't protect cops and that something needs done about the underlying issues that led to this point. They are just saying in the context of THIS conversation, they aren't willing to condemn every single cop being that, we don't know them all. We don't know their circumstances, and it's very hard when worrying about getting a check to pay for your family to be just and bold and outspoken against your fellow officers. Not that they shouldn't be it's just, I'm not walking in their shoes so who am I to judge them? But, nobody is saying that the actions of cops did not cause this and that it is the cops that need to change.
Then they need to open their eyes. This past week has shown that far more cops are guilty of either being on the offense or passively assisting being on the offense than there are that are against this offense. If there were so many good cops, they would stop the bad ones and shut this whole thing down. Except for a few rare cases, that is NOT the reality. This makes them all (the ones in bigger cities putting down protests) guilty to some degree.
The ones in big cities "putting down" protests are doing so because that is their job, it's what they are paid to do and their direct supervisors are telling them to do so.
I know in a perfect ideological world that EVERY cop should just, take off the badge, drop his gun and join the protesters but as I said, people need their jobs. It's easy for us to sit and tell them what they should do when we don't walk in their shoes.
That doesn't explain the plethora of cops "doing their job" that in reality is engaging in instigation and causing pain to others. There are countless clips of cops doing "drive by macing" and being aggressive for no reason, I have a few linked a few pages back. This is why I continue to hark back to what started this, because you're saying the cops are doing their job, and I'm saying if the cops actually did their job, NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO BEGIN WITH.
The cops are now justifying their actions, and you're perpetuating their argument, because they riled people up to be aggressive. And now it's being used to excuse all of the bad actions they have been making. And you're here buying it hook, line and sinker. If they're the heroes and the good guys, maybe they should start *** acting like it.
Ok you're ignoring what people say then claiming they are ignoring you. Go drink some herbal tea and stop being a a~hole for no good reason. Nobody here is making excuses for the bad actions of cops, if that is what you see, that's on you.
Except you guys are. Post above says, "They need to put these looters in jail." which is a terribly short-sighted view. They need to put the murderers in jail. They are the murderers. THAT IS THE ENTIRE REASON PROTESTS ARE HAPPENING. By sitting here and saying the looters need to go in jail, you're skipping over the VASTLY MORE ESSENTIAL action that must occur of the police needing to be policed.
 Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2380
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2020-06-02 20:13:11
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »They need to put murderers in jail. Which means themselves.
Bad apples...
By your logic, if one teacher rapes a student then all teachers are pedo/rapist...
Stick to giving advice on the Thf forums... Liked you better there...
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2020-06-02 20:14:28
If all the other teachers know about the rape, and the teachers union has 17 previous complaints of rape...
They're all just as bad as the rapist.
[+]
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 655
By Shiva.Zerowone 2020-06-02 20:14:34
Well that analogy escalated quickly.
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Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2380
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2020-06-02 20:15:22
If all the other teachers know about the rape, and the teachers union has 17 previous complaints of rape...
Oh *** please... Like schools, haven't have this issue before with bad teachers...
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-02 20:16:13
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »but they are civil SERVANTS, not employees, not ruling class, not anything more than servants.
And as such, our expectations of them are higher than of average citizens. Its shocking to me how few people want to put a higher standard of expectation on our law enforcement. I honestly don't see that argument.
We do want higher accountability from our officers, but at the same time, outright murdering them isn't going to solve anything.
Nor is demanding that they let rampant crime to occur under their watch.
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By Draylo 2020-06-02 20:16:52
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »They see your argument. Your argument is, condemn what you see as the initial offender, not the second or responding offenses. They are condemning the initial actions of the bad cops that led to this, although, looters loot during hurricanes, too so...some people just want to see the world burn, police violence has nothing to do with those people's actions, they are just opportunists.
So there's nothing we can do about looters, cause looters gonna loot, that's exactly what everyone "supporting" the looters has been saying. It's something that happens when the opportunity arises.
Quote: The problem you are saying is and I agree, if you focus on JUST that, then you miss the message of those with a legitimate gripe. We get that. What we don't get is, how you can ASSUME every single cop overs for others cops. I'm sure there are plenty who do, but you've had jobs, you don't necessarily know what EVERY other employee is doing on a daily basis. Quote: Nobody is saying some cops don't stereotype, no cops are racist, the system doesn't protect cops and that something needs done about the underlying issues that led to this point. They are just saying in the context of THIS conversation, they aren't willing to condemn every single cop being that, we don't know them all. We don't know their circumstances, and it's very hard when worrying about getting a check to pay for your family to be just and bold and outspoken against your fellow officers. Not that they shouldn't be it's just, I'm not walking in their shoes so who am I to judge them? But, nobody is saying that the actions of cops did not cause this and that it is the cops that need to change.
Then they need to open their eyes. This past week has shown that far more cops are guilty of either being on the offense or passively assisting being on the offense than there are that are against this offense. If there were so many good cops, they would stop the bad ones and shut this whole thing down. Except for a few rare cases, that is NOT the reality. This makes them all (the ones in bigger cities putting down protests) guilty to some degree.
Nothing, "we" as citizens or posters can do, but the police and NG can do everything about it. They need to put those looters in jail and mete out some justice. Or change some laws and let NYC carry, those business owners could use a gun to chase these people off.
They need to put murderers in jail. Which means themselves.
People are literally dying right now, we are past the point of businesses being destroyed. DYING, because of looters/rioters. Why are you still on that? We need to end this right now and stop these people. Then the protests that actually give a ***about the man that died, can continue.
Server: Asura
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-02 20:17:47
About 90% of these last few pages should really have been in P&R.
Just saying.
You have to look for P&R and whitelist it. None of this discussion is political or religious.
This is a social issue.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 655
By Shiva.Zerowone 2020-06-02 20:18:19
If all the other teachers know about the rape, and the teachers union has 17 previous complaints of rape...
Oh *** please... Like schools, haven't have this issue before with bad teachers... Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »They need to put murderers in jail. Which means themselves.
Bad apples...
By your logic, if one teacher rapes a student then all teachers are pedo/rapist...
Stick to giving advice on the Thf forums... Liked you better there...
Starting to sound like it’s really your logic.
The point we’re not recognizing to make it actionable and apply is being knowingly complicit in a coverup makes you an accomplice.
By Prong 2020-06-02 20:21:20
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Except you guys are. Post above says, "They need to put these looters in jail." which is a terribly short-sighted view. They need to put the murderers in jail. They are the murderers. THAT IS THE ENTIRE REASON PROTESTS ARE HAPPENING. By sitting here and saying the looters need to go in jail, you're skipping over the VASTLY MORE ESSENTIAL action that must occur of the police needing to be policed.
"You guys are." There you go again, ONE person makes a statement you quote and don't like and if ANYONE agrees with any part of it or any other thing that person says, you are now lumping them into, "you guys." Stop stereotyping. If you don't think SOME groups should be stereotyped and others can be, you are dead wrong.
Flat out, which I am sure you will find SOMETHING wrong with this statement, cops who murder people should be tried and convicted if wholly guilty of what our legal system defines as murder and it doesn't always happen that way. THAT needs to change, nobody is disagreeing with that. Are you still following?
What the people who are arguing with you are DISAGREEING with you about it, your assertion there is zero blame on the violent protesters because events "led" to this. Nobody said events did not lead to some of the issues here, even though it is beyond obvious not every protester is doing so in the name of justice. We are just saying, what cops have done does not excuse or allow people to attack/rob/murder people who have absolutely nothing to do with the cops. Your nonchalant "collateral damage" comment is asinine at best, intentionally bigoted at worst.
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By Afania 2020-06-02 20:23:10
About 90% of these last few pages should really have been in P&R.
Just saying.
You have to look for P&R and whitelist it. None of this discussion is political or religious.
This is a social issue.
This has became political issue as soon as it turns into left v.s right debate IMO. It seems political to me.
Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2380
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2020-06-02 20:23:59
The point we’re not recognizing to make it actionable and apply is being knowingly complicit in a coverup makes you an accomplice.
See... now you get it melo.. We need to hold the police force that allowed this to happen accountable to the highest degree - But I don't see how police forces in other states are accountable tho... so why tag them all as murderers like ladyoflumpeverythingihatetogether...
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2666
By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2020-06-02 20:24:33
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »They see your argument. Your argument is, condemn what you see as the initial offender, not the second or responding offenses. They are condemning the initial actions of the bad cops that led to this, although, looters loot during hurricanes, too so...some people just want to see the world burn, police violence has nothing to do with those people's actions, they are just opportunists.
So there's nothing we can do about looters, cause looters gonna loot, that's exactly what everyone "supporting" the looters has been saying. It's something that happens when the opportunity arises.
Quote: The problem you are saying is and I agree, if you focus on JUST that, then you miss the message of those with a legitimate gripe. We get that. What we don't get is, how you can ASSUME every single cop overs for others cops. I'm sure there are plenty who do, but you've had jobs, you don't necessarily know what EVERY other employee is doing on a daily basis. Quote: Nobody is saying some cops don't stereotype, no cops are racist, the system doesn't protect cops and that something needs done about the underlying issues that led to this point. They are just saying in the context of THIS conversation, they aren't willing to condemn every single cop being that, we don't know them all. We don't know their circumstances, and it's very hard when worrying about getting a check to pay for your family to be just and bold and outspoken against your fellow officers. Not that they shouldn't be it's just, I'm not walking in their shoes so who am I to judge them? But, nobody is saying that the actions of cops did not cause this and that it is the cops that need to change.
Then they need to open their eyes. This past week has shown that far more cops are guilty of either being on the offense or passively assisting being on the offense than there are that are against this offense. If there were so many good cops, they would stop the bad ones and shut this whole thing down. Except for a few rare cases, that is NOT the reality. This makes them all (the ones in bigger cities putting down protests) guilty to some degree.
Nothing, "we" as citizens or posters can do, but the police and NG can do everything about it. They need to put those looters in jail and mete out some justice. Or change some laws and let NYC carry, those business owners could use a gun to chase these people off.
They need to put murderers in jail. Which means themselves.
People are literally dying right now, we are past the point of businesses being destroyed. DYING, because of looters/rioters. Why are you still on that? We need to end this right now and stop these people. Then the protests that actually give a ***about the man that died, can continue.
Yes, it started with cops killing people. Why do you keep conveniently skipping over that?
Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2380
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2020-06-02 20:27:10
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Yes, it started with a cop who should have been axed ages ago while the others did nothing as he killed a person. Why do aren't you thinking like me and want to arrest every cop over it?
Fixed...
 Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2837
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-02 20:28:22
Is it ironic if the people who are responsible for these riots/protests, are the same people asked to subdue them?
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2666
By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2020-06-02 20:29:08
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Except you guys are. Post above says, "They need to put these looters in jail." which is a terribly short-sighted view. They need to put the murderers in jail. They are the murderers. THAT IS THE ENTIRE REASON PROTESTS ARE HAPPENING. By sitting here and saying the looters need to go in jail, you're skipping over the VASTLY MORE ESSENTIAL action that must occur of the police needing to be policed.
"You guys are." There you go again, ONE person makes a statement you quote and don't like and if ANYONE agrees with any part of it or any other thing that person says, you are now lumping them into, "you guys." Stop stereotyping. If you don't think SOME groups should be stereotyped and others can be, you are dead wrong.
Flat out, which I am sure you will find SOMETHING wrong with this statement, cops who murder people should be tried and convicted if wholly guilty of what our legal system defines as murder and it doesn't always happen that way. THAT needs to change, nobody is disagreeing with that. Are you still following?
What the people who are arguing with you are DISAGREEING with you about it, your assertion there is zero blame on the violent protesters because events "led" to this. Nobody said events did not lead to some of the issues here, even though it is beyond obvious not every protester is doing so in the name of justice. We are just saying, what cops have done does not excuse or allow people to attack/rob/murder people who have absolutely nothing to do with the cops. Your nonchalant "collateral damage" comment is asinine at best, intentionally bigoted at worst.
...the one person I have been discussing things with for 24 hours, and across more than just this forum.
I've never said there is ZERO blame on rioters/looters. I said that's what happens in a time like this, which you yourself also stated. There is nothing that will get done about clamping down on the rioters without also clamping down on why the rioters have the ability to do what they're doing. That means dealing with why people are protesting, and people are protesting because the cops are killing people and not being held accountable. It should be deafening and uniform to be holding the cops accountable, but here we are a week later, only one officer in one of the killings is even charged with a crime, and people are crying about looters instead of the actual issues that could actually end this entire process.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2020-06-02 20:29:38
Is it ironic if the people who are responsible for these riots/protests, are the same people asked to subdue them?
That's why it's not going to end. Can't put out a fire with more gasoline.
All they're doing is escalating.
Bahamut.Negan
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2397
By Bahamut.Negan 2020-06-02 20:30:06
Is it ironic if the people who are responsible for these riots/protests, are the same people asked to subdue them? It's like rain on your wedding day!
Server: Asura
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Posts: 2666
By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2020-06-02 20:30:15
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Yes, it started with a cop who should have been axed ages ago while the others did nothing as he killed a person. Why do aren't you thinking like me and want to arrest every cop over it?
Fixed...
You mean the cops that...covered for him? That watched him do it? That assisted him. Oh man why would I ever think anyone but the one person is guilty.
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By Draylo 2020-06-02 20:31:15
It doesn't matter who started it!! Jesus, you're like a kid on the playground. People are DYING, right nowwwww. What don't you get? People are literally getting killed over the looting, not to mention the countless other problems. Stop putting your blinders on and realize that.
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Posts: 2666
By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2020-06-02 20:32:05
It doesn't matter who started it!! Jesus, you're like a kid on the playground. People are DYING, right nowwwww. What don't you get? People are literally getting killed over the looting, not to mention the countless other problems. Stop putting your blinders on and realize that.
Uh, yes, it does. You're not going to stop a protest asking for police to be held accountable without either
1) Holding the police accountable.
2) Killing the people protesting.
WHICH DO YOU WANT TO OCCUR MORE!?
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Posts: 1858
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-06-02 20:32:57
It doesn't matter who started it!! Jesus, you're like a kid on the playground. People are DYING, right nowwwww. What don't you get? People are literally getting killed over the looting, not to mention the countless other problems. Stop putting your blinders on and realize that.
People were dying before George Lloyd. George Lloyd died, others died. But because NOW we have looting, THOSE deaths are the sad ones.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13643
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-06-02 20:35:40
Every unnecessary death is sad. Still not sure why we’re getting so binary on this.
By Draylo 2020-06-02 20:35:48
I didn't say to stop the protesting, I said stop the looting/rioting. Stop supporting them and saying its necessary. THey are causing DEATH, DESTRUCTION and new victims. People will create more animosity than ever before. They are doing so much harm.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2020-06-02 20:37:27
They've been protesting for (a long time) to only be met with indifference.
Only option is violence. And. it. works.
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By Draylo 2020-06-02 20:38:08
No it doesn't work, people are dying. People have create even more hatred on both sides, I don't see what positive you get from all this?
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So yea been out of the loop, has the rebellion began?
Is sublime gonna make a 2020 edition? What cities are popping off? What was the "last straw"?
Stay tuned for more excitement in 2020....
Edit: diverting the latest corona shenanigans from random thoughts.
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