Destiny's Device - A New/Updated Rune Fencer Guide

I was using my AF+3 body in Idle and for tanking as well, before they reforged empyrean.
After that I think that, at least in the majority of my sets, I changed it with either Nyame or more often Empy+3 body.

I was getting the All elements+ from other slots. Feet for sets when I'm not engaged, and Waist for sets where I'm engaged (for those I of course want Turms+1 in the feet slot).

Now I wonder if I could do some swapping around. Body sports a really high HP value, it's pretty decent in the other defensive stats, it has all element+ and now it also has very nice Meva/Eva values, so... I dunno, I guess it could be used in place of the Empy+3?
The Enmity Retention thing on Empy+3 (and the set bonus) are really juicy in theory, but I feel in reality they barely make a difference if at all.
Was curious to read what is everybody else's stance on this.

I tried Epeo Dimi vs Lionheart Dimi and Lionheart beat the Epeo parse both times, one where i'm WSing asap at 1k, other where I hold till 1750~. So far Lionheart Reso averages 440k~ with 5~ minute kill times. Peak Lionheart numbers was 530k (seen a 78k Reso after using Prishe Boots one time was sexy af) on parse with a 4:30~ kill time. The reso numbers vary so much for consistency sadly which is why I'm curious on Helheim. The Epeo parse was around 30-35k WS average with only 9-11 WSs~ depending on kill time. Was just not keeping up with Reso sadly.

If we get the Seal from killing basement minis then I ask for an Embolden Phalanx pre-pull since I won't get dispelled, otherwise I will Embolden Phalanx myself after pull incase I don't dodge the dispel. It's not terrible tbh, just a nightmare to keep on top of everything if you do get dispelled.
Sometimes I do like to just go PLD though cos of how much more chill it is, I can almost afk sometimes between KoR on PLD. RUN is just constant action to WS, Heal, redo Stoneskin etc.

I've held a firm stance that Enmity retention + damage to MP is a useless stat in current endgame. You need to take so much damage to make either stat worth using, to which you might end up taking too much, too consistently to stay alive. Enmity retention may be valuable tanking v25 Kalunga where Searing Serration can chunk you down and strip a lot of enmity, but I just use Adamantite for higher DEF and HP. I never liked Empy +3 since AF +3 had more Meva, same with Nyame. And Nyame had more DEF than it. So the only thing Empy +3 provided me was 2 stats barely getting any value + a couple MDB which doesn't do a whole lot for RUN when you're already sporting +100 MDB counting traits + gear lol, Meva, DEF and HP from the other options will provide better results long term at that high of value.

I often tanked in AF +3 for 80% of endgame content anyway since imma be real, I don't trust 99% of support players to keep me Refreshed or Ballad so I love the +3 Refresh on it natively (came in clutch when I had to tank v25 Arebati without a single Bard song cos the Bard fking afk'd after singing initial set of songs...)

You have to be playing with some really horrible players to run out of mp on run imo. Maybe im getting more bang for my buck from the empy +3 special sauce then you and just not noticing?

At any rate, the enimity retention has seemed valuable when compared to nyame (its been so long since I used AF 3 that I don't have any base line to judge). Maybe it placebo but I think the empy 3 body helps alot.

And regarding Helhime, I can't see any situation in the world we're i would want to spend so many muffins just get more dps on a run. Unless you have drk or war, it would be an absolute waste to pick it up just for lol run dps. I have it, it seems to be the best dps option for run by a good chunk but it isn't turning you into a drk and to loose the tanking stays serms silly.

I'd wager most of that usage you see is placebo for sure. If we use the enmity formula for damage(1800 * 150(damage taken) / 3500 (the average HP a set may have) you lose like 80 CE lol. Enmity retention is barely helping at all in that scenario. And you're barely taking 150 damage from every hit in content for the cumulative numbers to be worth using. RUN generates so much enmity you're likely not having enmity issues because of that.

And the fact Empy +3 body is only Physical damage to MP hurts more. When endgame content right now is dominated by Magic damage it kinda is a slap in the face. Most content I do where Physical damage is present I'm taking 0-20~ anyway to which it's almost equal to AF +3 for Refresh +3 lol. Very few fights, potentially Kalunga again, I'm taking a physical auto for 150-200, which I'm preferring to use Adamantite for higher DEF and HP since MP is not an issue on that fight.

But I agree about the MP thing, however I seen all sorts of players while I'm trying to help people clear content or just filling in for groups etc. Sometimes it does happen sadly. Needing to Shell V after some deaths, or throw more Regen IVs than I'd like to slowly eats away faster than I can replenish lol. But yeah sadly the caliber of players affects it a lot.

Do we even have an extensive test on how the Enmity Retention even works?
I think it's present on some PLD pieces as well.
Is it as simple as a 14% CE reduction when taking damage?
Martel I summon you!

I love the concept in theory but Shiraj's stance is pretty solid.
In most fights the damage you take is so small that a 14% difference would be so absymal that is it even worth it?
Very good point, imho.

Yes there's the set bonus too but relying on an additional 1% chance to absorb damage isn't exactly what I'd call a meaningful difference for a tank.


I currently have Adamantite in only one tanking set on RUN. I think I'm biased against the lack of haste and the slightly lower meva, but both points are kinda moot.
Who cares if you're not gear haste capped while tanking.
And slightly less meva for RUN isn't really that big of a deal, c'mon.
So yeah, I should probably value it more.
Then again I can't hide I was clearly always biased towards AF+3, so AF+4 being even better just triggers my bias for it of course.

Idk where these formulas came from but probably indirectly Martel: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/58104/the-divine-protector-pld-guide-2025/#pld-optimize-ce

While we're discussing useless stats, what exactly do you think 39 HP is going to do to help you beat Arebati? Is someone out here saying that, while taking 0-20 damage physical hits (your words) the extra 33 DEF on adamantite body is the key to effectively tanking?

Seems like trading useless stats for other useless stats, tbh. Applying your own logic to the piece you prefer gives the same result.

Erilaz also has 13 FC which is massive, both for non-GS users who can't cheat in a FC set before their SIRD, and frankly for flash I don't swap into SIRD since it's so damn fast and RUN SIRD is squishy as ***. For Arebati with encumberance, it's also best not to swap gear so again the 13% FC is absolutely nutty.

I think enmity retention, fc, empy set bonus, mp recovery (lul) and MDB are absolutely better than defense and HP, when comparing to nyame. When compared to adamantite I think the MDB on adamantite could edge out the other stats, depending on fight, but losing a lot of haste and FC will affect your spell recasts which is not to be ignored. I think the AF body is terrible and prioritizing refresh over a bunch of defensive stats, or 20-30 meva when you have a thousand, is a joke.

I'm not saying you're gonna die if you wear it, but I don't think it's the best option, the vast majority of the time.

The original CE loss info(Burtgang) was published by Kaeko. Though it seems to be more of a footnote in their Final enmity post covering many enmity related facts.

The enmity+ to CE loss reduction testing, and the verification of CE loss reduction gear and Foe Sirvente terms, caps, and interactions were done by Bun of the Two man cell JP blog. I reported on this to the EN community here. Links to JP blog posts are in the linked post.

How much does your curaga 3 do, I think I might try this to f*ck around.

39 HP + 33 DEF and 18 VIT and 10 MDB is just better than the previous option if we're using Adamantite, at least you're gaining some value. Who said the "upgrades" had to be substantial? Better is better in a game of Min/Max.

Yeah enmity retention is super valuable when damn near every hit is close to 0 anyway, if it's not 0 then damn congrats you just lost 50 CE instead of 80. You're gonna hold hate now, champ.

Prioritising Refresh over defensive stats is bad? (If you were taking a lot of damage then sure, it is.) I see you've never had to deal with players who slack off or don't listen when you get full dispeled.

And on a side note, if you're getting caught encumbered on Arebati you're just not paying attention. You don't need to be spam casting panicking if you're gonna lose hate, the only enmity problem on that fight is the enmity cap if it takes too long. Even using Prime from 64% on KI 2 didn't have enmity problems, why can't you just be patient with spells. Why you casting a spell when he can TP move. There is like a 2.5s delay before he can do a TP move after another, plenty of time to wait for a TP move then cast to avoid all encumberance. Even if you did get Encumbered, why don't you have a backup plan to save yourself like One for All available. 320/320 base enmity is not a lot but could potentially save a whole run from you dying.... Yet again another dumbass argument just for the sake of it.

In a game of chance like ffxi, consistency is just better. Consistently higher Meva does help, 25-30 on 1 piece will help a marginal amount, the number could go up if other pieces of gear aren't optimal either, that could be the difference between consistent 1/2 resist or not. If you think you're capped Meva on all content to just 1/8 resist everything you're HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, straight up. I noticed once I hit the 80+ MDB mark I started to see diminishing returns to which at that point you can prioritise Meva to have more consistency.

You just seem upset because you like to use it for Fast cast because you're on a Vanilla parade and don't use gearswap. No one cares for the <1% of the players who do endgame without gearswap, you do what you need to if you need to adapt. I don't even use a SiRD set on RUN because every midcast set I use is capped DT and the only content I stand a chance of being interrupted needing SiRD is floor 4 segments to which I adequetely prep with Embolden Protect 5 before entry with 1 Knight's Minne. Then everything bar crits is just gonna do 0s or at the very least take 1-2 hits from Aquaveil, maybe my god tier Phalanx set is bailing me out, who knows.

Side note:

It's not a lot tbh, 650~. I barely need to cure on the regular 8 bosses, Aminon can get dicey if I get full dispelled and people are using regal gloves, I always carry 5 Coalition ethers to restore some MP if I need them.

I'm just pointing out that you're saying out of one side of your mouth that you don't take any physical damage while saying that the reason you prefer your body piece is for the physical defensive properties. If you're upset about the contradiction there, you don't need to take it out on me by slinging slurs. You say that the 2 MDB on empy doesn't matter and that past 80 MDB you don't notice a difference, but then also say the 10 MDB from adamantite is worth swapping.

I also find it funny that I listed 5 stats but you cherry picked only the 2 you wanted to talk about when making your comparisons.


Because all "backup plans" can and will get dispelled. Valliance/vallation alone on your full dispelled *** is nowhere near enough to keep you alive in a SIRD set, especially with meva/MDB auras. What a stupid thing to suggest.


Again, the irony of saying you take 0 damage from everything, while talking about the massive benefits of DEF and VIT. Do you see it yet..? I'm glad that you don't need to use SIRD on RUN. Most people do, because if you're being hit by 5+ enemies then any non-0 hit will interrupt you basically every time and Aquaveil will wear off basically instantly.

I'm sure your 28 meva is saving your life and changing the world, and I'm glad the 3 MP/tick is making the difference between winning and losing fights. I remain skeptical.


I don't build my equipsets based on the assumption that my party will be AFK, it's a weird quirk I have.

Also I wasn't slinging any slurs at you, dw. Not that deep. Idk why the word for mentally slow people is considered a slur, but whatever. I just implied if anyone thinks they are capped MEva then they are very likely mentally slow, I doubt you would think that, but posted that anyway just because it's insane for anyone to ever think that.

***'s situational, if you read the earlier posts, I tank mostly in AF because of Resisting + Refresh. Only Kalunga, Wing of war and Segments do I use Adamantite(Nyame prior to the drop). I just responded to you.
Enmity retention - basically useless.
Fast Cast in tank set - the ***? wanna argue something about vanilla and no gearswap go for it with someone else - I don't care. Haven't used equipsets in 6 years, I hated having 3 different fast cast sets to min/max my casting speed depending on the spells used... terrible way to play.
Empy set bonus - This thing barely procs enough to make it even worth considering. When it does proc, nice you got 200 health back or less.
MP recovery - yeah this a lol. RUN doesn't struggle with MP issues in 95% of fights. The only reason I prefer AF over Empy for MP is because Damage to MP is ***. Native Refresh means you can be lazier and not swap runes to Tenebrae less often, losing the Meva from the runes etc.
MDB - Situationally good, sure (on RUN). Outside of Aminon I would never advise gearing towards MDB. If you get more of it, cool. Brother. Idk how much damage you take during MDB down or Meva down auras, but with ONLY Vallation up after a full dispel Halos on Arebati/Kalunga do 15~ per hit. I could cast Phalanx in +0 Phalanx set and reduce them all to 0. Rarely will one spike to 50+, stupid af comment. And why the hell you using a SiRD set tanking 1 enemy? Just time your spells? lol

The amount of times I get Meva/MDB down aura on Arebati or DEF/MDB down aura on Kalunga and with only Vallation + Phalanx and never died is insane. I have yet to get flattened to Searing Serration, yet to get flattened by Arebati and the halos. I legit only recast Phalanx on those 2 mobs due to how much I get full dispelled. Easier to minimise squishy sets to take less damage. Enmity spike at the start and it's coasting from there. Just sounds like difference in decision making for that one.
Then they need to tune their sets better? I'm not doing anything no one else can do. There is no secret mechanic. Most people run segments with SCH, just do Embolden Perp Phalanx if you really wanna be safe to take 0s or use more Minnes lol.No one saying it is the difference, however gains are gains. And going from 3 Ignis runes to 3 Tenebrae runes to replenish some MP is potentially 10-15s~ of 160-250~ Meva from the runes being down, you could get a full duration debuff land or unresisted T5 spell, unlikely, but why risk? Lazy is nice. I never used to as well till I started helping people and realising how useless half the players were when I couldn't even get a single buff re-applied from people cos half the players I found in pugs or filled in for were not paying attention or something. Relying on people was just the worst decision ever.

It'll be the last comment on this one, it's clear you have a different playstyle on tanking and/or you're just being obtuse because it's the internet, either one is ok.