The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*

PK <> Evisc makes a 2-step darkness, the Rudra's makes double darkness. Unless I'm missing something, the second Rudra does nothing. I'm not sure which SC you're referring to here. Are you just making Double Darkness or specifically a 4-step?

Exenterator > Rudra's > Evisc > Rudra's is a 4-step double darkness.

Always did shark bite since anything to avoid using exenterator

Evis>Rudra>Rudra is double dark with aenas, that's what I use

Shark bite works better. Evis double rudra works with any weapon. First step is usually garbage anyways, it's all about that 99k darkness

Aside from the ws damage themselves
Is there a difference between and in sc damage

Evisceraation rudras rudras
Gravitation to distortion making darkness and then double darkness

Over
Shark bite rudras rudras
Fragmentation to distortion to darkness
This is a single darkness?

Can you double this with aeonic aftermath?

sc wise i think double darkness will be better, evis > rudra will be mirrored sc dmg(without any sc bonus so itll be higher) then 2nd rudras is 150% sc whereas the sb opener will be 60% of your closing ws and then 150% on the final rudras

aeonic i think would be what buukki listed i think
Exenterator > Rudra's > Evisc > Rudra's makes umbra

Just curious, how good is DNC able to handle 0 haste TPing (compared to NIN)?

At times I don't use trusts and want to just fast TP / WS spam regular mobs or SC 2 steps. I know both jobs have JSE helping get DW up for 0% magic haste, but NIN for example has daken and shurikens to help, and I don't know the variance between the 2 jobs and how much the substats help i.e. STP / DA for 0% magic haste sets

Oh yeah, poor aeonic THF so don't know better

My mistake, the skillchain is

Ruthless Stroke > Ruthless Stroke > (Fusion) > Evisceration > (Gravitation) > Rudra's Storm > (Darkness) > Rudra's Storm [Double Darkness]


Evisceration --> Rudra's --> Rudra's is the simple 3 step. The extended version throws in a pair of ruthless strokes at the start to get a massive chain going. Any junk mob will be dead before you get to the end though.

It still doesn't change my stance on the evisceration gear set. Evisceration's damage is far less relevant nowadays than it used to be. The only time I think you'd REALLY care is if you're mainhanding tauret, but once you get Mpu gandring/twashtar/terpsicore you never look back and evisceration becomes more of an enabler than one of your major sources damage.

Evis damage could be much better if there were more CritDmg gear to pick from.
I guess if someone doesn't have any RMEA but Tauret... Evis spam at overcapped attack with PDL gear would be pretty solid damage.
But this implies someone had the time and resources to get high rank on Gleti but for some reason he doesn't have a better weapon than Tauret and... I think that's gotta be at least unlikely to some degree xD

Evisceration's damage is perfectly fine. For a multi hit it's actually one of the best options. The issue is that we live in a world where the meta is dictated by single hit fTP scaling weaponskills boosted by huge amounts of WSD. Rudra's storm and ruthless stroke simply outperform anything multi hit will do in every situation. Centovente is broken, and we're carrying around WSD in the range of 70% nowadays. So of course evisceration takes a back seat to that. It's the same reason onion sword II is merely a fine option and not a spectacular one. Fast blade II is just not as strong as savage blade, and the reason is that it's an fTP replicating weaponskill where wsd only affects the first hit. It can spike high sure, but the single hit option is always more consistent and better.

So long as we have WSD accessories out the wahzoo, cento in the offhand, and the ftp scaling that rudra's and ruthless have, evisceration will never be as strong as the alternatives at standalone damage.

Dead horse but it all comes back to magian OH really, wsd bloat is the cherry on top

Very well actually you get almost max delay reduction with haste samba and just DW cape, +3 empy body, +4 AF head and suppanomimi. the rest can be normal TP pieces.

And if you use blurred knife to proc haste (Buukki's suggestion from Nin thread), you only need +3 empy body, Ambu dual wield cape and eabani earring.

Since this body is also amazing defensive piece (14DT 14subtle blow) and earring is too(evasion and meva), you can actually supplement this with Malignance pieces and not only use this setup for trash, but also for some serious solo no trust challenges.

It still does better than Aenas Rudra's any time you don't want to make sc.

on dancer, I find I don't really want to use Offhand Centovente so much.

I'm so busy w/ the steps and flourishes, that I have way too much tp for centovente to help.

I prefer the crepuscular knife offhand, but hey gleti's offhand is almost as good and more accessible.


uhmmm.. we have Gleti's armor. What more do you want? Gleti's ALL has crit rate + and PDL+
This is better than just crit damage + alone.

Interesting, I've found the opposite. Because of TP Bonus offhand, my mindset changes to pretty much putting up Presto steps, and then spamming Rudra's/Ruthless as much as possible, only using Flourishes/Steps again as timers return or the need for Finishing Moves. The exception is if it's something like Xevioso 25 where spamming is not the best approach (due to wall and being methodical), so holding on to TP for Waltzes and Flourishes for the appropriate time is the better option. In such a case, Gleti's OH is a good option, especially because of the Waltz potency and crit rate stuff, allowing flexibility in other sets (Can add more (M)DT in Waltz set, for example). For Sortie stuff or everyday fodder like a Limbus farm, it's basically (Prebuff)Presto-Box Step 5, Presto > 10, spam time. RF is 30 seconds to use again and usually I pop it on a Sortie boss in favor over Building Flourish, normally because I use it with Climactic for double WS. The boss is normally dead in under 30/60s (depending on boss), so there is not excess button presses with Flourishes and Steps

Mate, I was talking about Crit DMG, not Crit rate!

Gleti is awesome and I already mentioned it when I was talking about PDL, which is very good for Evis but requires you to be way above att cap for you to benefit. Which is certainly possible but not what I would call your "average" situation.

let me spell it out in crayon.

The PDL raises the damage you can do, very much like crit-damage +, except I don't think there is a collection of crit damage+ gear which matches the pdl numbers we get from gleti's.

Gleti's also has huge attack+ on every piece. This already covers the benefit you would get from good crit damage+ gear but it is more widely applicable, so it better than just crit damage+...

Itst he PDL+ which replaces and superces Crit damage +, the Crit rate+ is gravy at that point.

How would crit damage+ be better than this? All you could do is just make bigger numbers... and pdl would still be better w/ the same numbers.



Maybe because I prefer to use Building Flourish + Striking Flourish instead of Climactic Flourish?
I hit it w/ presto + step. using building flourish, then striking flourish and WS.

By the time I use another presto + step, so I have enough flourishes, I'm really high on tp already. I generally use Reverse flourish when I need to do alot of healing.

Under capped attack PDL does nothing where crit damage always does something on the hits that crit.

This is a huge mistake though. Climactic flourish is for 6 rounds. Striking is for 1. Also Striking is generally only good for Fast Blade II. It's pretty useless for anything else. Climactic is also only 1sec JA delay every 90 sec. Striking is 3sec every 90 sec (assuming you do one every 30 sec) and 3x Striking gives less than 1 Climactic.

Certainly if you have the attack, PDL+ should be functionally equal to crit damage+ for crit hits. and it applies to non-crit hits.

I think its not so hard to cap attack w/ upgraded gleti's. Especially easy on a ws, when using building flourish. Especially if you actually in a party, though I can do it vs most anything I would solo w/ trusts.
Power creep has been a big thing for awhile.


Have you paid attention to the mechanics on the Empy body +3? cuz it makes Striking flourish very much like the headpiece for climactic flourish.

Please elaborate on what you mean. Do you mean climactic flourish is once every round of 6 weaponskills? because I' not having trouble generating tp faster than I can spend it. and I'm clustering job abilities together.

I can building flourish on every weaponskill, and STriking + Building on every other weaponskill. Or up the pace and do strking and building only 1 of 3 weaponskills, and building for 2 of them. but I have to store up more steps before hand for that.

I'm hitting at least 90% of the damage I would do w/ Climactic by using both, but I can use them more than 2x as frequently as Climactic. that's more damage.

are you talking about a zerg situation? In a true zerg, I think I'd be rocking trance and grand pas, and spamming climactric rudras.

because trash mobs don't survive that 1 skillchain w/ striking and building. then you hop on the next mob.

Climactic works for 6 rounds. It forces crit on 6 WSs or 6 first round melee hits whatever comes first. Normally one climactic will work for at least 2WSs and 4 melee attacks for only 1sec of JA delay. On regular melee rounds climactic will still add like good 2.5k damage, more if you get empy or prime triple damage proc. So it's 2WSs boosted to 90-99k and +10k on 4x melee rounds for only 5FMs and 1sec JA delay. You are loosing so much JA delay time on generating FMs and activating flourishes, that in capped delay scenario you will barely get a net gain in dps or you will possibly even lose DPS. Lets assume your DPS in capped haste group content scenario is 12.5k, which is fairly low assumption. Does your building flourish add 12.5k to WS, does your striking add another 12.5k?

On 53k Rudra, sim shows around 13k boost from building and very low boost from Striking, which suggest building flourish barely boosts your DPS and striking flourish make you lose DPS. Climactic will add like total of 90-100k damage easily costing the same 1 sec of JA delay.

Striking is harder to model because it requires you swap to Maculele Casaque +3, but I don't really buy that giving Rudra's a 70% crit rate results in a very low damage boost. Swapping from Nyame B to Maculele +3 and switching from no flourish III to Striking in a very old Motenten sheet, I get my Rudra's damage going from 46k to 65k.

Neither here nor there, though. Ultimately, you are correct that Climactic + Reverse blows away the alternatives.

Lol, thanks for the mansplaining on PDL, Xilkk-wiki!
I'm afraid you're missing the context of the flow of posts.
Melliny started explaining why, when suggesting sets to a guy who was asking for them, he purposedly avoided to mention PDL for the reasons he exposed.
PDL is indeed awesome but requires you to be way over att cap.
If on the current target you cap att at 4000, to fully benefit from Gleti's PDL you would need ~5400 att (and that's not accounting for DNC's Damage Limit+).
PDL is undoubtely very, very good, but this is an important aspect I fear a lot of people are naively ignoring. In several non-super-pro situations, you won't get this luxury, defeating the point of PDL.

Now... Gleti is a very good set for Evisceration even without PDL, period.
There could be valid alternatives to use in the situations Melliny was talking about but, and here we go back to my initial point in the post, while Crit Damage would in theory be a perfect stat, sadly there are not enough good CDmg options to pick from, leaving us to square one and it was exactly the point of my post.



@Byrth
Wasn't you who made a post, many many years ago, explaining how Tauret MH Evis spam on DNC, while inferior, was a very solid option but using a different approach involving 5/5 Building Flourish merits and spamming just Building Flourish for (almost) every Evis? And no other Flourish not because they would't be good (you could totally combine Building with some Flourish3, in theory) but simply because you wouldn't be able to get enough FMs?
I think I recall pretty clearly this post and I'm confident it was you who mathed it out.

Personally I tried it, a long time ago, on a few Dyna_D runs using Tauret MH, Twash OH instead of Tauret MH / Centovente, and I was honestly a bit disappointed by the results.