Make Paladin Great Again
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Make Paladin Great Again
Cover should be like the old FF where you'd teleport across the screen to cover your party member. Until that happens, PLD sucks! (I wish it didn't suck though)
Cover should not have a positional requirement. It should just be a thing you target on an ally and it works for its duration, like PLD in FFXIV.
I haven't played in years but I'm surprised that RUN is considered good now. Before I quit, the main content was Vagary/Delve/Skirmish/Delve/Divine Might II, and back then DPS tanked stuff, or if not then PLD. RUN was considered meh for holding hate and physical damage resistance (since PLD had Ochain, and PLD would simply swap into Aegis for magic damage). RUN would get one shotted by Ark Angels physical TP moves and stuff, and was really only useful for like the Avatar II fights on Very Hard. So what changed since then to make RUN preferred? How are they holding enmity? All it takes is some arbitrary updates. GEO was a complete joke waste of time too. Look at it now.
RUN was absolute ***. Couple bad ideas later, it's completely broken all semblance of balance. Look how COR started.
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/throwsbait
Wait, how can you make Paladin great again if it was never great in the first place? /runsaway
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Asura.Kingnobody said: » /throwsbait Wait, how can you make Paladin great again if it was never great in the first place? /runsaway Such a true statement. PLD has been a bandaid job for 12+ years. Stand in the corner with the baby adds while the real jobs handle the boss. Asura.Eiryl said: » GEO was a complete joke waste of time too. Look at it now. Like the first 2 years it existed
Wasn't used at all in delve htb unity until incursion made it mandatory to start using vex/attune just to avoid being irritated for the entire run. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Wait, how can you make Paladin great again if it was never great in the first place? /runsaway I actually felt useful on PLD for early Adoulin content and High-tier battlefields. But yeah, you're mostly correct. I've played on and off since the NA release and PLD has always been meh. It still has a special place in my heart because I love this kind of job. It just needs to not suck :( Valefor.Ophannus said: » Cover should not have a positional requirement. It should just be a thing you target on an ally and it works for its duration, like PLD in FFXIV. I kind of like the idea of a positional requirement. Still requires some element of player skill and interaction. After some of the discussion in here, I think I'd like it if we could keep it up constantly and be able to shift it to different characters as needed. It'd be powerful, but you'd have to actually put effort into controlling it. I'm thinking about axing my original idea of having cover also cut down on alliance wide physical AoE, and just add some other JA or something to accomplish that. Taint said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » /throwsbait Wait, how can you make Paladin great again if it was never great in the first place? /runsaway Such a true statement. PLD has been a bandaid job for 12+ years. Stand in the corner with the baby adds while the real jobs handle the boss. paladin + RNGR was the meta. for HTB VD iv had fights where i even parsed as much as relic ranger's with excali. Asura.Swaggernaught said: » Taint said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » /throwsbait Wait, how can you make Paladin great again if it was never great in the first place? /runsaway Such a true statement. PLD has been a bandaid job for 12+ years. Stand in the corner with the baby adds while the real jobs handle the boss. paladin + RNGR was the meta. for HTB VD iv had fights where i even parsed as much as relic ranger's with excali. I guess i missed that small window. Left for FfXIVs for a couple years. Do t get me wrong i was a HNMLS PLD for years but beyond holding mobs for people to gather or extreme lowman tia/khim/cerb we were using other jobs to tank. (DRK,RDM,NIN,SAM) Taint said: » Asura.Swaggernaught said: » Taint said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » /throwsbait Wait, how can you make Paladin great again if it was never great in the first place? /runsaway Such a true statement. PLD has been a bandaid job for 12+ years. Stand in the corner with the baby adds while the real jobs handle the boss. paladin + RNGR was the meta. for HTB VD iv had fights where i even parsed as much as relic ranger's with excali. I guess i missed that small window. Left for FfXIVs for a couple years. Do t get me wrong i was a HNMLS PLD for years but beyond holding mobs for people to gather or extreme lowman tia/khim/cerb we were using other jobs to tank. (DRK,RDM,NIN,SAM) that was way before AG update too. max was 247 skill That era wasn't because PLD was good. It was because we had literally no other options. (ironically GEO would've been the solution instead of arrowburning for 2 years)
Try to melee AA HTB and get one shot by *** everything. (except galka who was slow enough to shadowburn and has no multihit ws like rampage cdc or guillotine) Asura.Eiryl said: » Like the first 2 years it existed Wasn't used at all in delve htb unity until incursion made it mandatory to start using vex/attune just to avoid being irritated for the entire run. This isn't true. Lack of knowledge of the job kept a lot of people away from GEO initially. Also, it took SE a long time to give Luopans native DT, and Dunna never existed, so Luopans died within seconds from AOE, due to a lot of people not properly gearing it (there didn't exist that much pet DT gear). Paladin, on the other hand, has been out for a very long time, so there is no reason it should fail as much as it does in comparison to RUN. It should be equal to or better than RUN in every area except DPS. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » It should be equal to or better than RUN in every area except DPS. I'm not even looking for equal at this point, I just want something that natively boosts enmity on PLD. Almost every RUN ability is loaded with CE and VE. Look at Vallation and Valiance, for example. Both abilities have 450 CE and 900 VE, which also have complementary CDs. And because of these complementary timers, they can't be strictly compared to Rampart and Sentinel. And this is before we even talk about Pflug, Battuta, Liement, Rayke, Swipe/Lunge and anything else. This is also, of course, leaving out Foil - 880 VE and 320 CE every 45 secs (before haste/FC). But you are right: PLD should be equal to RUN - in enmity generation and sustainment - and should be inferior to RUN in pure DPS. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Asura.Eiryl said: » Like the first 2 years it existed Wasn't used at all in delve htb unity until incursion made it mandatory to start using vex/attune just to avoid being irritated for the entire run. This isn't true. Lack of knowledge of the job kept a lot of people away from GEO initially. Also, it took SE a long time to give Luopans native DT, and Dunna never existed, so Luopans died within seconds from AOE, due to a lot of people not properly gearing it (there didn't exist that much pet DT gear). Paladin, on the other hand, has been out for a very long time, so there is no reason it should fail as much as it does in comparison to RUN. It should be equal to or better than RUN in every area except DPS. Then why i never saw runes do VD HTB at that era? i think it was the job points, You can't change public perception until someone breaks the stigma that "it sucks". Back then, everything was all about shooting stuff down with rangers while a paladin holds everything. That's hardly a good era to make the argument that rune wasn't that good. I watched a pretty good rune with epeolatry do some satisfactory tanking when it was introduced, so it's wasn't that bad. It got better with JP for sure
Lakshmi.Buukki said: » You can't change public perception until someone breaks the stigma that "it sucks". Back then, everything was all about shooting stuff down with rangers while a paladin holds everything. That's hardly a good era to make the argument that rune wasn't that good. I watched a pretty good rune with epeolatry do some satisfactory tanking when it was introduced, so it's wasn't that bad. It got better with JP for sure I played RUN before epeo exist, had both /nin and /blu back then, imo it wasnt "meta" that gave the job such bad rep. It was the fact that the job was lacking at that time. I think the difference between a 2014 pre epeo/aettir RUN and 2019 job master aettir run with very good gear is huge. Back then the job really rely on battuta up to stay alive. If its not up then you drop like a sack of potato. You can improve surviability with nin or blu sj but its not too different from dd/blu dd/nin with capped dt set.....well besides the fact that run casts shadows faster than dd/nin at that time, and it has SS phalanx. There were multiple debates on Bg bashing the job for not really bringing anything to the table outside of niche fights. Over the time job improve a lot, epeo and aettir were added, more Inquartata from gifts and af+3 pants. So its a lot more playable these days without having to build an epeo.
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I'm not going to lie I don't know how to play RUN but I do enjoy the RUN job emote....so that's a start right ?
Lakshmi.Buukki said: » You can't change public perception until someone breaks the stigma that "it sucks". Back then, everything was all about shooting stuff down with rangers while a paladin holds everything. That's hardly a good era to make the argument that rune wasn't that good. I watched a pretty good rune with epeolatry do some satisfactory tanking when it was introduced, so it's wasn't that bad. It got better with JP for sure but tanking as a monk in 1.0 delve was better then rune lol Well that's true. But that's like saying the best DDs for Salvage 1.0 was Monk, lol.
The difference between RUN THEN and PLD NOW is that RUN was a completely new job with undiscovered potential and not as many tricks in the bag to make it very effective and attractive early on. It was new, "sucked", and then quickly got better. PLD on the other hand has been in the game going on two decades soon, and it has always had it's place cemented as the top tanking option, aside from a few niche moments where something like a NIN or MNK or WAR/nin was the better option. But as soon as RUN started getting better gear, traits, and tools, PLD didn't get the same support. The job didn't age well with time because SE had tunnel vision trying to fine tune Rune. Wouldn't be the first time SE ignored certain jobs in favor of others, but at this point, PLD needs something to either put it ahead of, or at the same level as Rune as far as tanking goes. The only thing RUN should be better than PLD is with DDing. I compiled a list of gear that all jobs received from Omen. PLD was the lowest recipients of anything useful. RUN was the highest. It showed SE's blatant negligence in regards to caring for PLD in the recent past:
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I mean Run has gained effectively, what? 15% Inquartata since back then, and Turms mittens?
Thats pretty huge and really changes the job entirely. What about if you do PLD/RUN does that make Paladin great ?
*** paladin
mhomho said: » *** paladin Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Well that's true. But that's like saying the best DDs for Salvage 1.0 was Monk, lol. PLD had the advantage back then of the insaneness that was having both Aegis and Ochain. Problem was Ochain and Aegis lack Shield Skill, which makes them not so great when fighting things like i130 mobs. I guess RUN also lacked a lot of job specific equipment (relic armor, relic weapons, empy gear, etc)
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