Dev Tracker - Discussion

A V15 or V20 is still a DPS check. If they fail it really hard, they know they aren't ready and they got nothing out of trying. They can go down in difficulty or gear up more.

I don't think this is really true. You don't believe there are any new players, but Phoenix has had quite a bit of activity and I doubt it's the only server like that.

Anyone who didn't have V15 access at the time Sortie came out or pushed into endgame after Sortie release would have done Sortie before Odyssey. It's easier, the upgrades come faster, and unless you're talking R25+ it's mostly better. So, any new player and anyone who hadn't done Odyssey at the time Sortie dropped is likely to have suitable gear for V15+ before even stepping into Odyssey.

I'm not the one saying it sincerely, the "ffxi is dying" doom and gloom crowd are saying it

Then they can roflstomp the V0/5/10/15's and be at V20 by the end of the month instead of spending the next six months sitting on their hands crying about how sheol sucks and Gaol needs to be fixed, while theyre doing their hour long daily 6 month prime grind in Sortie and 8 hours a week in Limbus.

Perfectly valid point. But, much like Limbus, small changes could fix the perception. You don't need to change the content to handout tier to convince people it's worth it: if they can just go in, fight Bumba V15~20, and see that they're progressing they're much more likely to continue.

Why stop there.

Just remove the pointless auras, and the pointless non-dispellable attack buffs and all the rest.

Lower barrier to entry, right. Pointless grind, right.

Someone was saying they could not solo clear T3 V0, which I believe. Those fights aren't easy, and trusts wipe very quickly.

If you think allowing plebs to skip to V15 is going to magically move the needle on V25 completion you're fully delulu.

Just remove the job requirements. Keep the rest of the mechanics.

Let people throw 3 KIs with the same party structure. v25 still won't be easy for most.

ex. Ongo: You could do RUN,BLM,SCH,BRD,COR,GEO for all 3 KIs if you want.

Just remove V25. V20 clear gets you R30. Done.

Oh the salt will be glorious.

What, does only removing V0-V10 work? Pointless grind, remember.

You don't have to immediately go to lets just hand it out.

Always the fatalists

Change one thing and *** it just make it log in points

"It'd be great if this thing sucked less"

"*** welfare queen and your handouts for everything"

That ruins it for the people looking for a challenge though. A lot of the fights will become trivial, if not all of them, with a decent group.

I mean first it's "the challenge is the point" then it's "why should anyone have to work their way up to v15+".

Pick a lane already.

So yeah, if we're abolishing V0-V15, then let's just abolish V25.

I agree, the fun and challenge of the content was the puzzle of it all... the problem solving.

"We cant use the best jobs for everything... we have to split it into 2 fights, so we cant use this support here, in order to give the other KI a fighting chance... so we have to use an alternative."

That's what made alot of non traditional meta jobs relevant again.

Literally in your example Taint, I'd argue that if you could do 3 KI's of the same jobs back to back... No one would even use BLM. They'd let the SCH do all the damage, and bring a RDM to control adds and backup nuke. Slow and steady, abusing the helix dot in all 3 KI's to offset the regen.
If my guess is accurate (not that we'd ever know though), it'd be pretty sad considering how sidelined BLM has been. It's refreshing to even have BLM be a standard/staple for an important fight, same for RNG with Arebati, so on and so forth.

The other aspect of it, is the system as it was set up FORCED players to adapt and level/gear new jobs. It made stronger, more well rounded players as a result. Learning new jobs has been some of the most enjoyable part of the game, because without the push to do so, it's extremely easy to just stay in your comfort zone.

Fundamentally I think the locked jobs contributes massively to why I believe Odyssey is the best content they made in the game.

And to those who argue no one goes back and helps others do it once they're done... I mean... Maybe on your server? On Asura I've helped plenty of people re-do fights. The fights are fun. And I dont just speak for myself as I know plenty of others who've gone and helped others via shout/LS/or friends just asking. If people don't find them fun enough to help others maybe its a community thing?

Lets presume this gets implemented, there is literally not a god damn thing thats preventing the people who "are looking for a challenge" from either:
A: Self-Imposing a 1 KI limit
B: Applying a "no reusing jobs" limit

I mean... While you're not wrong, almost no one in the game would do that simply for the self imposed challenge. There's a fraction of a fraction of 1% of players who do that kind of stuff to begin with. That's just wishful thinking imho.

And I'm saying this as One of those very players... I've 2 manned Unafraid of the Dark... I've 1 KI'd Arebati. We did so with the express intent of finding out "is this possible" and doing so was fun and forced us to execute in a very tight window.. but again, no one's really doing this.

Then they arent looking for a challenge.
Theyre looking for an excuse:
"welllllllll we coulda done it, but now that the shackles are off, were not gonna fight with them on"

Yeah that is what would happen. I'm expressly against Taint's idea to "Solve" the "Problem" of odyssey, not that there is one to begin with

Do you have any idea how insufferable I would be about telling people I cleared v25, like when grandpa walked uphill both ways to school? It would become my entire identity.

One thing I've always kind of wished about Sheol Gaol is that they allowed subjob usage, but restricted it in the same way as main jobs.

i.e. No one in the party can sub the same thing / if you used a sub in one fight, you can't use it as a sub in the next either.

I have no idea how much harder that'd be to code, but having had fun with no sub jobs as a limitation, it'd be cool to see people innovate on which subs to use for which jobs, in a scenario where you have to pick and choose.

Would be even more of a headache for entry requirement/group to coordinate though lmao

There's very little utility that support jobs even offer to begin with. You'd eventually run out of support jobs to use, because some of them are functionally useless as a support job. Don't know how much fun it would be, wouldn't really have the same effect because some jobs aren't meant to be subbed.

BST and PUP are dead in the water as subs.
GEO, SMN and BRD are extremely limited and impractical
The only decent subs are the mage and tank jobs
You might save WHM sub for GEO or RDM to heal/-na
It doesn't really matter what DD job subs what, Hasso for WAR if 2h
Maybe DRG on your RNG and let him go HAM on Arebati without fear of stealing hate
DNC for COR to give it an offhand weapon and Samba
NIN for BRD to use TP bonus offhand
You get one extra Elemental Seal as BLM, for Burn on Ongo I suppose
Don't see too many strategic possibilities, besides turning your RDM or GEO into a main healer for specific setups.

Is anyone who plays non-meta jobs happy just because those jobs get used in Odyssey, though? We use BLU/BST/SMN and maybe even PUP for v25's and I don't know anyone who likes those jobs that thinks being used as a one-trick pony in Odyssey is satisfying. Black mage might be the lone exception because it's so central to Ongo and even the SC/MB T1/T2's.

I think you're on point with the rest as far as forcing players to be more well-rounded, and Odyssey being interesting content, but it's not really helped non-meta jobs significantly.

Odyssey created the heaviest usage of BST to date via Purulent Ooze. Zero chance that job ever gets changed to if not for Odyssey cheese RP. (Decide for yourself if that's actually a compliment)

I have a good idea, yes.

It shall be glorious.

I'm still riding the "I cleared CoP before the first set of nerfs and let's not even talk about removing the level caps"