Dev Tracker - Discussion

Yeah, no idea what he's talking about. I did all of our CN pull parties as BRD with 2-3 Minnes, Mambos and a AGI/VIT etude. Was able to grab 20+ every pull with pretty much no threat. GEO at camp giving Indi Barrier or entrust. WAR tanks with Retaliation/Physical Cleave, Mages Cataclysm or Earth Crusher or /NINs Aeolian Edge. Cureskin or Regen from SCH was enough healing for every pull. It was a perfect camp and extremely fun for the time. The zone had enough spots to fit several camps of that style, but there was no way to discourage people from griefing if people wanted to do cleave parties and pull EVERYTHING, so SE just hit everything with the hard nerf hammer instead of looking for alternative camp options to satisfy others. Nerfing that camp was one of the dumbest things they decided to do, and I haven't joined a ML party since then.

Junk pulls don't count

"20 mobs" compared to pld pulls the entire. ***. zone.

I could pull 50 or the entire zone (Hippomenes Socks +1 swap if I wanted to be cute), but what matters is the chain. So pulling the entire zone is less EP overall because of the time it takes to pull. You will lose chain by the time the next group comes in if you pull full zone. With BRD, you pull one side, 20-30 mobs or whatever, run to camp, lullaby, on route to next 20-30 mobs, repeat. By the time group 2 is killed, group 1 re-spawns. That was a way more efficient way to do it, and PLD is a wasted slot if you're using it as a puller.

PLD is the puller and the killer with infinite tp

the point isn't which setup is more efficient, it's that as soon as you have competition for mobs everyone turns into an ***

I mean the way my group did it is we took turns being the pld and cleaving for everyone else while they afk or just chat on discord. Much easier to not burn out if you only actually have to cleave 1/6 of the time.

Don't you lose chain anyway? I mean don't you have less than 30 seconds since last kill to keep the chain up after #38 or whatever it is?

Pulling the whole zone is, I dunno, 150 mobs? If you lose the chain you would get 0% bonus and then increase by 2% up to the first 50 mobs, then full 100% bonus for the remaining 100 deaths, which isn't too bad?
Then again pulling everything would take a LOT of time, and I agree your method of always keeping the flow of mobs sounds so much more efficicent in theory, I was just wondering if you really have time to pull, gather, sleep and kill a group of 30 mobs in less than 30 seconds without using flee hacks.
Seems a bit unreliable to me but if you say it was easy I'll trust you!

Wow so I see you guys really weren't doing that camp the same way. Interesting. I'll explain.

You lost chain when BRD had to resing only, but normally the COR or WAR would pull an idle monster near the camp to keep the chain running while the BRD was returning to camp. Also, not every mob would die at the exact same time (Funguars or Beetles might survive a few extra cleaves than say the Flies). This made it so you weren't killing 20-30 mobs exactly all at the same time (because mobs move around, and sometimes Fell Cleave missed ones on the outer range of AOE).

Besides that, the pulls were so fast, but intentionally smaller to supply a steady amount of mobs instead of a large amount and then a huge break. It also made more room for mages, since nobody in our team needed PLD MLs. If more people pulled less mobs more frequently, the camp could sufficiently support more parties. The problem was always greed by someone taking too many, or pulling into the range of someone else's camp.

That camp is actually still cleavable, the only exception is you have to normal DPS kill the Locus mobs that are immune to cleaving. This is actually ok, since it keeps at least a few mobs at the camp that can extend the chain while the BRD pulls another batch. Besides e the addition to Locus mobs, the camp operates exactly the same, and you can work around it. People just didn't like the idea they had to switch from AE spam to a single WS (whoa, huge inconvenience). And yeah, botting > effort, so killed that momentum.

tldr - you can still cleave CN, just have the COR or whoever Leaden > Requeiscat > Leaden (multistep) the lone Locus mob to keep chain running while puller gathers more for the party.

edit: also you mentioned "flee hacks", but i really wonder why people seriously don't use Hippomenes Socks +1. The proc rate is very high when getting hit by multiple monsters, and pairs nicely with Minne or Mambo for Evasion/DEF builds on BRD or BLU. You don't need hacks at all. Even RUN can pull in seg farms (or cleave parties) using the same strategy, just replace Lullaby for Shockwave.

too much move speed and the mobs just depop anyway

Its all about pathing. run too fast in a straight line for long enough and you will lose line of sight/smell/depop from outranging. Run zigzag and they will stay within range. It's only when returning to camp you have to worry about that since that's the longest stretch. You still have to run in front of beetles to aggro them instead of through them with sound aggro mobs, so it doesn't happen commonly tbh.

I am extremely confused, to say the least.

I think you (and others) are trying to highlight the fact that ML not being necessary doesn't change the fact that they exist and they're grindy but...let's try another example.

Say they added a quest where you move 1 ilm like...4000 times in a row, like the dodging lightning achievement in FFX. Make it 100,000 times if you want, doesn't matter.

If this gave you 1000 HP for completing it, it would be an atrocity.

If this gave you absolutely nothing, it would be a dumb idea but WHO GIVES A *** that they implemented it?

So the reward and whether or not the reward is necessary/helpful, matters a lot.

If you're obsessively grinding (or botting) something that's pointless, that's on you. If you're obsessively grinding/botting something because SE made you do it to beat the game, that's more understandable (but still ***, IMO). The usefulness is absolutely relevant and pretending that it's not doesn't hold water, IMO.

Finally: I think ML0-30 (or maybe 35, depends on your level of patience for grind) is quite useful. It's also not very grindy and extremely achievable. The 40+ (especially 45+) part is the grindy part that everyone hates and hey, would you look at that, it's also almost totally pointless. Except as Drakelth said, it's a great way to self-identify as a botting moron.

Plenty of people here who are adamant they dont bot, and by some of the questions these same people have asked, I'm left to assume theyre morons ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Whats the difference between botting or:
paying RMT to PL you while you're afk
standing around while a pld spams aeolianedge

you aint doing BFA in all three scenarios.

Doing it manually isnt teaching you how to play the job either. EP fodder are not difficult or threatening by any means. Theres no dangerous attacks to react to, theres no need to do hybrid sets, theres no need to coordinate anything, its room temp IQ content.

Crawlers Nest S is an example of SE being completely stupid. They should just change all mobs to locus already.

looking at the shout box for bahamut in the last week, without ever even logging in. the asurafication is well under way. ya'll didn't deserve this :(

Oh but they do

It's been isolated to asura for what, 7 years? 8? Sharing is caring.

And if you're on baha, and you're mad about it, imagine how the asurans felt, trapped. Congrats.

Guess we gotta work out where we're moving next

a bit melodramatic but it was literally soul crushing watching something you loved turn to complete ***, always wish there was something we could have done before it got that bad.

Correct me if I'm wrong but out of Odin and Bahamut, Odin was more JP centric and Bahamut was more NA centric?

Adding another stat to ambu capes would cause all kinds of fun chaos
I personally would like to be able to add hp or mp

Considering they made it 800 per dye for Stat+1 when it was 100 per thread for Stat+1, and also limited the number of Dye / month to deviate from the previous standard of "can get enough supplies to make 3 full capes per month", expect some ***like this

Abdhaljs Ink
10,000HM/GA each
limit 2 from HM, 1 from GA per month
Follows same patterns as dust, cap of 10.

That's a good tip, and I'll admit to overlooking those. Gonna change that, thanks Buukki!

One little question: I understand the flee proc can still trigger if attacks are evaded or do no damage due to effects like Stoneskin, but can it also proc if attacks are absorbed by Utsusemi? (I'm guessing yes, but would be nice to confirm)

A utsusemi shadow is the same as a miss. Flee can proc off of any [landed] attack, whether it is evaded blocked, negated, absorbed or lands for damage. Basically a free 5% chance at a 30 second flee per attack [that lands].

edit - added [ ] to clarify findings (see below)

They don't proc with ice spikes or reprisal up but yes they are great for pulls, also use them on BLM but need su3-5 staff to make up for loss of empy boots on mana wall.

Well the wiki apparently doesn't have this info, so I went out and tested it out with feet locked and couldn't get a flee proc after 10 minutes of getting hit with Ice Spikes active. Thought maybe it was the Ice Spikes proccing that was preventing the flee proc from socks, but even when evading hundreds of attacks while having Ice Spikes buff, no flee proc. So you are correct. Good stuff.


I was going off of the wiki (and my own observations while mass pulling, which could have deceived me) when I mentioned this, but after what Jakey said, I decided to double check if what the wiki said about evaded attacks was true. Went to several camps (IEP and Locus) and had mobs wail on me while I had Utsusemi active with feet locked. After another 10 minutes, never got a flee proc. Thought maybe it was Utsusemi that was blocking proc from happening, so I went to IEP and pulled about a dozen of them, casted Blind II on them, set my HP to around 33% and let them wail on me some more. No flee procs. I couldn't test this on Locus mobs since they have far better accuracy vs my evasion. But from what I could tell, I never got one flee proc when evading an attack. Attacks that were blocked from stoneskin (0s) did proc the flee, even from IEP.

I think the wiki might just be wrong and you need to be hit for flee to activate? I'd say the ~5% proc rate is probably correct, but it only appears to activate on attacks that land on you, not misses. If someone has information contrary, fix the wiki please :). Whatever the case, I'll scratch out my above comment accordingly.

(this isn't the thread to go over this, myb)

Mind blown, no wonder I always thought they were crap cause I could never get a proc.

You could have added it?

Anyways, I did

Huh, and that would mean you probably DON'T want to augment the shoes, since they get Eva+20/all attribute+10/Resist Bind+45 from the augment.

Well, glad I have yet to toss any lustreless scales at the two pairs I farmed up and +1'd today :)