Dev Tracker - Discussion

I always thought they kept the 3men gate for stuff like Delve and Dyna-D because they were afraid their servers wouldn't hold because of too many people creating instances at the same time.

If for whatever reason that's not the case anymore and they're not concerned about it at all, then I wholeheartedly agree they should totally remove them. Especially for Dyna-D where either way you have a 60hrs cooldown so I doubt it's gonna make their servers explode, right?

most of the content with 3 man requirements has an economic component (delve, vagary, dynamis) to limit the amount of crafting materials in circulation. that's really the only reason.

I really wonder how much of this ***is a result of asura existing. I sometimes wish they would have separate entry rules for asura compared to any other server. 30 merit entry kis is stupid anywhere but asura, why does Bismarck need to suffer for the overpopulation issues on another server.

If it wasnt asura itd be bahamut or elsewhere instead

I thought the same but it sounds a bit tin foil hat, how would they do it?

Also agree that 45 to 50 EP requirement is ridiculous. They should balance out the curve by reducing the top end and increasing the top end

I'd be kinda curious (not that I'm sure there's any way of actually knowing) but if I had to guess the number of "new accounts" is probably something like:

RMT accounts > people leveling a multiboxing mule > old players leveling a "new" account (banned/lost) > players returning on an inactive account of 5+ years > actual "new" players.

I'd hazard the number of people < 30 (on a 23 year old game) is pretty small and there's probably more people over 50, and I'd guess that of the people < 30, a significant portion are likely playing with their parents.

No one who has a family (ie people over 30) wants to spend countless hours doing mindlessly repetitive tasks, and beyond a mild novelty factor for some people doing content that is easy but time consuming isn't highly appealing.

All that to say most of the gate keeping is probably an annoyance to most "new" accounts. If I ever decided to multibox there's a stuff I would not want to do again (although buying KI from SE for a couple bucks is a potential revenue stream here to skip some content - although not sure I love that idea (cough cough mog wardrobes 3-8 cough cough))

WRT minimum party size if congestion is an issue they could make entry requirements dynamic. (say 0-1 instances consumed, solo players allowed, 2-3 consumed requires party of 2 or more, 4-5 consumed requires party of 3+ etc...)

The colibri got tired of you and reflected warp on you with hidden text cuz of battlemod :)

45-50 is the apotheosis of ridiculousness, but it's not like 40-45 is "fine".
If you ask me 1-20 is super ok, 20-30 is grindy but OKAYSH. 30-40 is already pretty steep when you have multiple jobs (and when you unavoidably have to return to do EP from time to time because you die). It's way too much but it's not preposterous.
Anything beyond 40 is simply beyond sanity, it would've been considered grindy even in 2004 standards, and we all know how *** grindy MMOs were back then.

did the math recently in another thread


if you take that away, even considering the vast majority of people won't get ML50 on every job, what the hell else are you going to do in current game after you run sortie and ody each day?

About as insane as getting a Maat's cap at OG XP values.

At least one person got a cap before any XP grind nerfs.

You needed 925,350 total XP to get to 75 at OG XP values.

22 * 925,350 = 20,357,700.

20,357 hours or 848 days total XP-ing. OG Maat's cap was 18(?) jobs though not 22.

They need to greatly increase the EP earned during events.

When I stated Sortie on PLD I was about 400k into ML50. It took a full year to cap. They could increase the per mob or have RoE bonuses.

Stuff like segments/RP could be converted into EP or a EP item. There are endless ways to help with the grind while doing content.

The current system promotes botting and RMT. (maybe thats what they want)

Maat's cap didn't require PUP, BLU, COR, DNC, SCH, RUN or GEO, so 15 jobs.

It's hard to make a direct comparison. Getting 1-75 back then (technically you only needed 70 iir) sure was a lot of grind. Number-wise it's obviously waaaaaay less than ML50, but back then XP/hr was very low and you had no bots. Well... they weren't common let's say.

So yeah, hard to compare I guess.

A lot more fun grinding exp back then...

but maybe cos i was 20 years younger, and without the myraid of real life responsibilities I have now.

Just to further the correction, 66x15 not 70

I think all the "it takes XYZ amount of time to hit ML50, isn't that a crazy grind?" posts are stupid and they make my eyes roll so far back in my head it causes me pain every time I see one.

ML50 is pointless. ML50 on 22 jobs is so far beyond pointless, it borders on insanity. You don't need ML50 on any job, for anything*. Stop obsessing over what ML your jobs are. You don't need to bot them to 20, 30, 40, 45, or 50. If you want to get 20 or 30 so you can feel better about yourself or unlock 2% more DA, or a tiny amount more PDL, attack, or STP, go for it. You can do it in a single night. If you want to get 40, 45, or 50 because you have OCD or something, then that's on you, not on SE.

I promise you, the reason you're losing isn't because you're missing 1% TA on your temper 2. I promise you, the reason you're winning isn't the 140 HP. It's not important. At all. Especially the ridiculously terrible ROI on the higher MLs.

Even if you did somehow convince yourself that you need ML45 to play FFXI, you absolutely aren't playing all 22 jobs. I'm sorry, virtually (or literally) nobody is doing that on a regular basis. If you're gonna sit here and tell me your 3rd string DD job needs to have ML50 because you like to *** around with it in ambu sometimes, I'm going to laugh in your face.

Stop seeing ML as a grind you need to do, or setting ML goals for yourself, and I swear to Altana your life will improve dramatically. You don't need to bot, or pay bots, to get you ML. You can just play the game and ignore ML almost entirely**.

*I haven't beaten all the master trials, maybe there's some deep MT strategy involving high ML, but i VERY, VERY much doubt it.

**I'm sure this advice doesn't apply to Asura, where you can't join a party without ML50. You don't need to tell me. That place is a cesspool and you deserve each other. You did this to yourselves.

Don't think that's true. If the economics were a huge concern, they probably wouldn't have rolled up with free beastmen's medals in login campaign then further nerfed shard/void requirements afterwards. It's probably the opposite; they want to increase natural generation of these mats because they feel relic upgrade is too much of a hurdle.

There are tons of performance and stability issues in instances when they're crowded. I don't see it as a coincidence that they're hinting at it while trying to reduce Asura population and doing this weird CoP dyna weakening as a tease instead of just changing it. It's probably not much of an issue outside Asura, like everything else.

200% this! I've staryed typing something similar a few times and didn't wanna deal with that bag of worms. But truly ml are anything special or important. When I see people in ambu gear stressing ml I want to slep them. Nothing in the game requires them and gear is going to have a much larger impact than ml

You can say that about literally anything else in the game.

Why grind farming gil to buy HQ gear when NQ is 95% as good at 1/10th of the price.

Why grind farming R15 on any weapon when R10 is less than half the cost and gives you more than half the benefits.

Why RP Ody armor when even R0 is so good.

And so forth.

ML only really sucks for the people who want magic fruit or foil, everything else you can basically get at 25~30 which is where it aint much worse than CPing from 0-2100

0-33 is a very reasonable grind imo
what comes after is a sin

It's perfectly fine to accept that you don't need ML50. Plenty of people sitting at R25 Nyame who don't make any effort to clear Bumba V25 because they see it as unattainable. There's always an effort:reward calculation; the exponential cost increase on EP per master level eventually exceeds what legit players see as worthwhile. Botting is different.

As a thought experiment, if they allowed ML60 and the exponential cost curve continued so that you needed an additional ~84mil EP to get from 50 to 60, would you still chase it? What if they allowed ML70 and it was another 327mil? The answer is yes for botters and no for everyone else. It's only that way because the cost of gaining it is being artificially deflated by a factor of 50 or more (time setting up bot vs time actually exping).

It's compulsion, not need that drives ML attainment. There's a thing you can have and you don't have it.

I think I could rationalize it better if content would actually get you there.

Doing oddessy and sortie on a main every day that bar is just not moving

If the content rewarded more perhaps there would be less complaints.

There should be alternatives.

/DRG WS dmg 2 at ML30 is the main one to go for on SAM WAR DNC THF DRK, /DNC Chocobo Jig at ML30 for COR RDM BRD is nice, not sure there is much else for other jobs that matters

Yes, I was thinking about you and a few others when I wrote that in my previous post.
To be fair... I can't say you're wrong. You're absolutely right.
You don't need ML in general, not even 1, to be completely honest, but then again 1-20 is fast and 30 is not too bad, so I don't see why not having ML30.
Do you "need" it for anything?
No, can't disagree.

Does it matter? I mean if we start discussing what we "need" and what we don't, there's gonna be a very very long list of stuff, among which ML50 will be in one of the first spots for sure, but that's beyond the point.
Wether ML50 is or isn't needed (spoiler: it's not) doesn't change the fact that ML beyond 40 and especially beyond 45 is beyond any level of sanity.
Of course if you "needed" for anything it would be even worse, much worse, but the fact you don't doesn't make it "acceptable" or "everything is perfectly fine" in my eyes.

Just different point of views of course, I understand yours and think it's actually not stupid at all, but I still don't agree with it, respectfully.

There's odds and ends like fencer II for /war at i think sj 58, might be another utility spell in there but for the most part its nothing id call as important as foil or fruit. Can do everything without either but they're still very nice to have in the pocket so it sucks you have to go into the hell that is ML 35+ to get them

If you look at it a different way, ML30 is worth 28M gil (I think RMT charge 8M 1-20 and 20M 20-30?) with how easy gil is to make.

I don't think the fact it's unnecessary it is really the issue. It's a carrot that is not reasonably achievable by players and dumb design, needed or not.

I'm perfectly content to pretend it doesn't exist and not care, but I also think it's stupid to add an objective so far out of reach that is tied to sitting there grinding the same mob over and over again for weeks on end. Needed or not, objectives should be reachable and obtainable by playing the game, but SE's approach is that they throw those figures out there and know someone somewhere will somehow (botting mainly) obtain it. It also supposedly pacifies the 75-beaters who want that old exp experience (even though it doesn't accomplish that in reality). It's not driving player retention and having it so far out of reach really doesn't benefit the game at all. So it's not really about how much it is or isn't needed, the fact it's there means it's something to do but they've put it stupidly out of reach. That or it's a honeypot for botters, but that's tinfoil hat material since they don't actually ban them all.

Giving players objectives that are reasonably obtainable will make people want to stick around and work towards them. Put them out of reach into space and no one cares enough to stick around and make it happen. They would've been better served tying it to finishing endgame content than burning through mobs IMO, but the final figures to get past ML40 now are just dumb, whether it's needed or not is irrelevant.

Well. The primary part of that is you can get your ml overnight, with zero downside.

You not only get to ml, but it doesn't impede your playtime at all. You turn your chore into passive gains instead.

The value is much higher than the cost.