Random Politics & Religion #21

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Random Politics & Religion #21
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-03-29 16:44:26
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Cruz Missive said: »
But while I'm here

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Meanwhile, Dems gloat over their decaying "health" plan sticking around

I expect this kind of blatant partisan hackery from some of the others, but I know you're smarter than this.

The ACA, demonized as it is by the GOP, is essentially Romneycare 2.0, the Heritage Foundation's plan that got implemented in Massachusetts. There's some small structural differences, but not many. The Democrats went with it because it would have some chance at passing, as opposed to what they really want (single-payer). But all the bleating about how this is the Democrats' bill and the Republican version would be so much better/cheaper/less filling is so, so stupid.

The ACA is the conservative bill. If you asked the think tanks to write up what they wanted, it would look like 75-80% of the ACA. That's their bill! The problem is that the Congressional GOP has spent seven years doing anything they possibly could to obstruct Obama, and couldn't even let him have credit for implementing what is, at its core, THEIR PLAN.

So now, of course, they've spent seven years trying to cut the brakes on the car, and now have to drive it. But all their good ideas are already in law, so all that's left is to try and cobble something else together, that will never, ever, make enough of the various factions happy to actually vote for it.

This is all correct. Back when they were debating about this on this very forum I mentioned how most of the bill was actually Conservative idea's back when the GOP was acting like the DNC is now. They figured the DNC would never accept a healthcare bill that wasn't single player and when it looked like the Dems might actually negotiate a health-plan the Republican's pulled out full stop. The Dems then became so adamant on passing ~something~ and needing every single vote, they caved in to a bunch of special interests and amended the bill to have all sorts of bad ***which *** over the final plan. The Supreme Court rightly called it a tax. There are several very good features of Obamacare, especially for younger individuals like myself. HSA's are an excellent idea when used properly with a high deductible healthplan.

You are perfectly correct that it's 70% Republican idea's, it's that final 10~20% of Democrat mandates that *** it all up. It's functionally impossible to fund a 100% healthcare bill, not without reducing our military spending to 200bn USD a year or less and using those funds to fund it. What's reasonable is a 80~90% solution, something that hits most of the populations needs and makes their healthcare affordable even if it doesn't get the "snowflake" groups that tend to dominate the Democrat party with their various "causes".
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 16:49:42
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Shiva.Shruiken said: »
I prefer to complain about things that are actually wasting taxpayer money, like the cost of Trump spending his weekends in Mar-a-Lago, or keeping Melania and Barron comfortable in Trump Tower.

Not a nonprofit organization that provides vital healthcare services for millions of people.

You'd golf too if everyone complained about your work !
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-03-29 16:50:28
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Shiva.Shruiken said: »
I prefer to complain about things that are actually wasting taxpayer money, like the cost of Trump spending his weekends in Mar-a-Lago, or keeping Melania and Barron comfortable in Trump Tower.
Or his spending his time in Hawaii, or his 300+ golf trips, or the 20 personal attendants the First Lady requires on staff.
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By Blazed1979 2017-03-29 16:51:09
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so let me just get this straight; Democrats are pissed that a foreign government might have influenced their internal politics?

The irony...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-03-29 16:51:53
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Blazed1979 said: »
so let me just get this straight; Democrats are pissed that a foreign government might have influenced their internal politics?

The irony...
The real irony is that the spoilers are broken.
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 16:52:08
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If I had my way we'd elect Trump Supreme leader and we would kill all the Democrats in Congress !
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By Blazed1979 2017-03-29 16:52:30
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 16:52:40
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I mean we could just say the killing of Democrats is a late term abortion for legal purposes...
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 16:53:38
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Turn America into the Middle East just kill the opposing party remain in power start a war...remain in power !
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-03-29 16:54:32
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fonewear said: »
I mean we could just say the killing of Democrats is a late term abortion for legal purposes...
Tell us how you really feel...
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 16:55:07
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You guys should be more worried about North Korea bombing us not how to pay for your abortion.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-03-29 16:55:34
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Abortion doesn't cost the taxpayer anything.

It's very true but I avoided that intentionally. Getting sidetracked into partisan talking points that have been proven untrue, happens too easily in here.

It does and it doesn't because of how PP is setup. The use government money for their various "non-abortion services" but those services themselves are tied to providing abortions. Getting the medical exam before the operation, that's a "non-abortion service", getting the exam post operation is also a "non-abortion service". Practically everything related to the abortion operation, except the actual operation itself, is billed as a "non-abortion service". They do this to comply with various regulations that say they can't use the governments portion of their money to provide for the abortion while using the governments money to subsidize the total costs of the abortion. Also abortion services are their primary money maker and they operation it as a business, which they are.

http://www.liveactionnews.org/planned-parenthood-worker-we-had-no-resources-for-women-who-chose-life/

Their counselors will attempt to up sell abortion because its cheaper then providing parental care. Again this is purely a result of their business focus, they need resources and that's how they get them. As a pseudo-government agency they straddle the line between a government agency and a independent business which is what gets people pissed because it takes the worst of both entities. They need to be a separate entity without government funding if their going to continue to play politics.
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By maldini 2017-03-29 16:55:51
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fonewear said: »
Turn America into the Middle East just kill the opposing party remain in power start a war...remain in power !
In a way it already is. All wars in the middle east for the past 60 years have been US lead, initiated or supported.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-03-29 16:56:01
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Wait, since when has Benjamin Netanyahu influenced US politics?

Last I saw, Netanyahu was Obama's Foreign Enemy #1, even worse than Putin and Un, and he was basically silent (Netanyahu) during the '16 election.

Or are you going to say the Israeli's hacked the election?

/wonders what channel Blazed's hat is receiving
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-03-29 16:56:33
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fonewear said: »
You guys should be more worried about North Korea bombing us not how to pay for your abortion.

North Korea bombing us is the medium we chose for abortions this year.
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 16:56:57
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
fonewear said: »
I mean we could just say the killing of Democrats is a late term abortion for legal purposes...
Tell us how you really feel...

I would but the moderators frown upon that sort of thing...
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 16:57:43
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Hell I want war with North Korea it will end all this Russian nonsense and we can get back to killing.
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By maldini 2017-03-29 16:59:22
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Wait, since when has Benjamin Netanyahu influenced US politics?

Last I saw, Netanyahu was Obama's Foreign Enemy #1, even worse than Putin and Un, and he was basically silent (Netanyahu) during the '16 election.

Or are you going to say the Israeli's hacked the election?

/wonders what channel Blazed's hat is receiving

Its called reality.

http://fortune.com/2016/03/21/aipac-israel-lobby-election-2016/
Quote:
Here’s Why AIPAC and the Israel Lobby Will Be Critical to 2016 Elections

This week, the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee will hold its annual policy conference, and attendees will be hearing from some of the biggest names in politics. Every remaining presidential nominee except for Bernie Sanders will address the crowd, as will Vice President Joe Biden, House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, and Speaker of the House Paul Ryan. Essentially, anyone who wields power or wants to wield power in Washington will be there.
AIPAC and the "Israel Lobby" in general—a loosely connected group of lobbyists, politicians, and Political Action Committees dedicated to strengthening America's connection with the Jewish state and advocating for support of Israel in international relations—can be a bit of a political land mine. When criticizing the actions and policies of the State of Israel, it is easy to step into territory that many would deem anti-Semitic.
But it is impossible to ignore the fact that AIPAC, the biggest, most powerful group in the Israel Lobby, has got serious juice when it comes to Washington politicking. The group has one of the most sophisticated lobbying efforts around, including a highly professional set of lobbyists on the Hill who know how to get congressman to vote their way when it comes to issues affecting Israel. They also have representatives throughout the country who can lobby congressman from their home districts.
In 2015, a total of $4,189,000 was spent on Pro-Israel lobbying. AIPAC accounted for $3,388,700 of that.
It is important to note that AIPAC does not directly contribute to candidates, nor does it give money to PACs supporting candidates. They don't explicitly endorse candidates for the presidency or for lower offices. What they can do, though, is use their influence to get their donors to give to candidates and PACs that will be favorable to Israel and to AIPAC.

Already in the 2016 campaign cycle, $7,168,396 has been donated to federal campaigns by Pro-Israel individuals and PACs, according to data from Open Secrets. In the 2012 cycle, a total of $15,102,201 was donated to such groups.
There is no Arab-American or Palestinian-American equivalent to AIPAC, either in terms of money or in organizational size and sophistication. Some outfits such as J Street, a centrist Jewish group, and Jewish Voice for Peace, a left-wing group, have surfaced in recent years, but neither of them comes close to matching the clout of AIPAC. So if a congressman from Kansas gets a call from an AIPAC lobbyist, he and his constituents may not think much about about Israeli affairs, but voting with the lobby is politically beneficial. Voting against them, meanwhile, gives that congressman a powerful enemy.So that's why so much is being made of the conference. And that's why it's a big deal that Bernie Sanders is skipping the event, even if he is claiming it is because he has a scheduling conflict.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-03-29 16:59:42
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fonewear said: »
Hell I want war with North Korea it will end all this Russian nonsense and we can get back to killing.
Naw, that would piss the Chinese off, and then where would we get our cheap ***that's paid for by slave labor?

Cause we can totally influence the going ons in another nation and not expect it to happen to us~
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-03-29 17:00:16
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fonewear said: »
Hell I want war with North Korea it will end all this Russian nonsense and we can get back to killing.

Are you going to fight in this war or are you going to armchair General on the internet this round?
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By Blazed1979 2017-03-29 17:00:22
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Wait, since when has Benjamin Netanyahu influenced US politics?

Last I saw, Netanyahu was Obama's Foreign Enemy #1, even worse than Putin and Un, and he was basically silent (Netanyahu) during the '16 election.

Or are you going to say the Israeli's hacked the election?

/wonders what channel Blazed's hat is receiving

I'm not sure if you're really that unaware or trying to troll?
Its just ridiculous at this point in time to not be aware of Israel's influence on American politics...
 Shiva.Shruiken
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2017-03-29 17:00:25
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Shruiken said: »
I prefer to complain about things that are actually wasting taxpayer money, like the cost of Trump spending his weekends in Mar-a-Lago, or keeping Melania and Barron comfortable in Trump Tower.
Or his spending his time in Hawaii, or his 300+ golf trips, or the 20 personal attendants the First Lady requires on staff.

You know, you're allowed to criticize them both.
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 17:00:46
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Chinese the only thing they are good as is cooking spicy chicken !
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-03-29 17:01:15
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maldini said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Wait, since when has Benjamin Netanyahu influenced US politics?

Last I saw, Netanyahu was Obama's Foreign Enemy #1, even worse than Putin and Un, and he was basically silent (Netanyahu) during the '16 election.

Or are you going to say the Israeli's hacked the election?

/wonders what channel Blazed's hat is receiving

Its called reality.

http://fortune.com/2016/03/21/aipac-israel-lobby-election-2016/
Quote:
Here’s Why AIPAC and the Israel Lobby Will Be Critical to 2016 Elections

This week, the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee will hold its annual policy conference, and attendees will be hearing from some of the biggest names in politics. Every remaining presidential nominee except for Bernie Sanders will address the crowd, as will Vice President Joe Biden, House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, and Speaker of the House Paul Ryan. Essentially, anyone who wields power or wants to wield power in Washington will be there.
AIPAC and the "Israel Lobby" in general—a loosely connected group of lobbyists, politicians, and Political Action Committees dedicated to strengthening America's connection with the Jewish state and advocating for support of Israel in international relations—can be a bit of a political land mine. When criticizing the actions and policies of the State of Israel, it is easy to step into territory that many would deem anti-Semitic.
But it is impossible to ignore the fact that AIPAC, the biggest, most powerful group in the Israel Lobby, has got serious juice when it comes to Washington politicking. The group has one of the most sophisticated lobbying efforts around, including a highly professional set of lobbyists on the Hill who know how to get congressman to vote their way when it comes to issues affecting Israel. They also have representatives throughout the country who can lobby congressman from their home districts.
In 2015, a total of $4,189,000 was spent on Pro-Israel lobbying. AIPAC accounted for $3,388,700 of that.
It is important to note that AIPAC does not directly contribute to candidates, nor does it give money to PACs supporting candidates. They don't explicitly endorse candidates for the presidency or for lower offices. What they can do, though, is use their influence to get their donors to give to candidates and PACs that will be favorable to Israel and to AIPAC.

Already in the 2016 campaign cycle, $7,168,396 has been donated to federal campaigns by Pro-Israel individuals and PACs, according to data from Open Secrets. In the 2012 cycle, a total of $15,102,201 was donated to such groups.
There is no Arab-American or Palestinian-American equivalent to AIPAC, either in terms of money or in organizational size and sophistication. Some outfits such as J Street, a centrist Jewish group, and Jewish Voice for Peace, a left-wing group, have surfaced in recent years, but neither of them comes close to matching the clout of AIPAC. So if a congressman from Kansas gets a call from an AIPAC lobbyist, he and his constituents may not think much about about Israeli affairs, but voting with the lobby is politically beneficial. Voting against them, meanwhile, gives that congressman a powerful enemy.So that's why so much is being made of the conference. And that's why it's a big deal that Bernie Sanders is skipping the event, even if he is claiming it is because he has a scheduling conflict.
Um....should I break it to you gently, or do you want it harsh?

Maybe, I don't know, read the article again?
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 17:01:34
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
fonewear said: »
Hell I want war with North Korea it will end all this Russian nonsense and we can get back to killing.

Are you going to fight in this war or are you going to armchair General on the internet this round?

I'll be there with a FFXIAH banner. I'll bring back some Korean women as proof !
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-03-29 17:02:14
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fonewear said: »
Chinese the only thing they are good as is cooking spicy chicken !

And iPhones
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 17:02:33
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Actually with modern technology you could bomb a Korean in the comfort of your own home...
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By fonewear 2017-03-29 17:02:51
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When you kill someone with a drone it's like it didn't happen.
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By Odinz 2017-03-29 17:02:54
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Why can Israel openly influence foreign elections and politics but Russia can't?
What was the collusion between Russia and Trump, if any, compared to decades worth of AIPAC lobbyists?

Russia never shot down a US Navy ship.
Can't say the same for Israel.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-03-29 17:02:54
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fonewear said: »
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
fonewear said: »
Hell I want war with North Korea it will end all this Russian nonsense and we can get back to killing.

Are you going to fight in this war or are you going to armchair General on the internet this round?

I'll be there with a FFXIAH banner. I'll bring back some Korean women as proof !

POIDH!
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