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The Tumult Curator Thread
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2016-08-30 09:27:35
Reposting some of my initial questions as I still have doubts about the really exciting strategy Lina posted that I can't wait to test myself :)
1) You talk about NIN having bad macc within the CONs. Why does it matter if NIN has bad macc? You don't talk about landing NIN debuffs or magic bursts so why?
2) Also why is Epeolatry necessary on the RUN? Will he be tanking in an attempt to let the NIN stay behind the target to make use of Innin JA? Which runes were used for RUNmain and /RUN?
3) And why /BLM for one of the BRD? I assume for Elementalseal Lullaby to have additional tools to sleep the lamps other than just NiTro?
1) Bad M.eva. It means their more likely to suffer debuffs from anyone else, and also if they have no shadows up, more likely to die from a fire 6 to the face.
2) Epeoloty i wouldn't argue Is a Necessity, but yes, the RUN is tanking for allowing of Innin. the Buffing runs would change virtually every NM (Earth for chariots, water for the cerb etc.)
3) ES Lullaby as an additional sleep tool other than just Nitro really.
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-08-30 09:27:44
Bahamut.Vinedrius said: »And 2k tp is not enough for Shun > Shun to end with Radiance. I think it would.
AM3 is required to make a TWO step Radiance (Shun>Shun=Radiance).
But the sequence I posted, later confirmed by Shadowlina, is actually a three step.
2k Shun > Shun > Shun is actually a 3 step that produces Light when you use the second Shun, then Radiance when you use the Third Shun.
I think at least? But Shadowlina just confirmed it one post above so I think I got it right.
I agree I'm surprised how SC damage could be such a helpful feat on a mob that has like -50MDT or something, but appearently there has to be something else about it and maybe Radiance works really nice on it for some reason /shrug
@Lina
1) Derp... misread that, sorry! Thought it sounded strange lol
2) Ok, this hinders the potential of Vallation/Valiance, but runes still offer raw Elemental Resistance after all
3) As I suspected, thanks ;)
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2016-08-30 09:32:32
I'm not sure, it's just long run, the JPs have damm near always used Skillchains as a large damage source to magic resistant mobs. Especially Radiance.
Oryx being one... AAGK in escha. I'll investigate and ask around seeing im with them anyways magic burning Ambuscade as i type this w
Edit:
Asked around, they also don't seem to understand the Ultimate skillchain effects
But bare in mind, Just from Having say AM2 up, your already got 5%? Skillchain damage bonus just from AM. and seeing as NIN get's access to say ryuo hakama and it's HQ ryuo hakama +1 something BLU doesn't have.
I'll check what he WS's in.
Edit 2: He doesn't... But that's still a valid ish i guess point.
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By Asura.Avallon 2016-08-30 09:38:44
With regards to some players having immediate access to these updated TOAU Unity NM warps and others without, I'm not sure. It certainly brings back a recollection when I took 2 large groups through all 3 clears before. I and others could warp directly from the Unity NPC but others had to walk there.
One speculation is that the 'glitch' or potential prerequisite is that the NM needed to be defeated before having access to their specific warp, but I don't think that's true. In fact, it can't be true since I had access to the warp immediately.
It could have something to do with story-line progression (expansion progress), particularly as tied to Rhapsodies for some reason? I personally think the warp access has something to do with the amount of Unity completions each individual player has - even though I'm not sure there's an active tally being kept track of. It might be a hidden statistic.
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2016-08-30 09:49:44
So just as a little foot note, Heishi Shorinken is getting at least a 5%-9% Skillchain bonus just from AM2 (It varies dependent on TP. Where a BLU is not. I don't know Skillchain math, but if their doing the same skillchain damage as BLUs without the weapons on, and then putting them on, their base light skillchain damage is already higher, and let alone the flat out damage difference they are getting from making Radiance.
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By Bahamut.Vinedrius 2016-08-30 10:00:19
Bahamut.Vinedrius said: »And 2k tp is not enough for Shun > Shun to end with Radiance. I think it would.
AM3 is required to make a TWO step Radiance (Shun>Shun=Radiance).
But the sequence I posted, later confirmed by Shadowlina, is actually a three step.
2k Shun > Shun > Shun is actually a 3 step that produces Light when you use the second Shun, then Radiance when you use the Third Shun.
I think at least? But Shadowlina just confirmed it one post above so I think I got it right.
2k Shun > Shun doesn't close anything though. You need to close light first then finish with Radiance if you have AM2.
I have just tested with Requiescat as well. 2k Req > Req (Nothing) > Req (Darkness). 3k Req > Req (Nothing) > Req (Umbra) obviously.
So just as a little foot note, Heishi Shorinken is getting at least a 5%-9% Skillchain bonus just from AM2 (It varies dependent on TP. Where a BLU is not. I don't know Skillchain math, but if their doing the same skillchain damage as BLUs without the weapons on, and then putting them on, their base light skillchain damage is already higher, and let alone the flat out damage difference they are getting from making Radiance.
An aeonic BLU not only gets the same bonus from Sequence but can equip Skillchain bonus trait as well which can go up to tier 3 (16% according to bgwiki) with one spell and two JP gifts on top of that (not sure if multiplicative or additive, but still bigger is bigger).
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-08-30 10:06:38
Not sure why you think NIN magic evasion is 'low'. It's based on gear and BLU/NIN use mostly the same gear. The only difference I can see is Magic Evasion Bonus III (somewhere in the 30s). It's not negligible but with all of the buffs you're rolling with I don't see it as a huge difference. Is there something I'm missing?
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By Bahamut.Vinedrius 2016-08-30 10:10:41
Not sure why you think NIN magic evasion is 'low'. It's based on gear and BLU/NIN use mostly the same gear. The only difference I can see is Magic Evasion Bonus III (somewhere in the 30s). It's not negligible but with all of the buffs you're rolling with I don't see it as a huge difference. Is there something I'm missing?
Yup, I would say mdb trait would help more but don't really have 6 points to spare to set mdb without gimping damage noticably :/ Basically they end up being similar in terms of meva (but not defense against magic... <3 tusk and coat).
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-08-30 10:28:22
Bahamut.Vinedrius said: »2k Shun > Shun doesn't close anything though. You need to close light first then finish with Radiance if you have AM2. First shun would be Fusion/Impaction only, but second Shun would also have L3 Light property too, shouldn't Fusion>L3Light be making Light?
I might be having a seriously embarassing derp moment here :'D
But then again you said you just tested with Requiescat and it didn't produce Darkness so I guess I'm wrong here.
Dimi > 2k Shun > Shun > Shun should be working though!
Light > Double Light > Radiance in Theory?
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2016-08-30 10:39:02
Correct.
One second i'll clip it.
YouTube Video Placeholder
Here im targeted the whole time, sorry for bad quality its still uploading
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By Bahamut.Vinedrius 2016-08-30 10:42:06
Bahamut.Vinedrius said: »2k Shun > Shun doesn't close anything though. You need to close light first then finish with Radiance if you have AM2. First shun would be Fusion/Impaction only, but second Shun would also have L3 Light property too, shouldn't Fusion>L3Light be making Light?
I might be having a seriously embarassing derp moment here :'D
But then again you said you just tested with Requiescat and it didn't produce Darkness so I guess I'm wrong here.
Dimi > 2k Shun > Shun > Shun should be working though!
Light > Double Light > Radiance in Theory?
I thought double light can't be continued any further.
One thing I have just found out though is that; CDC > 2k Req (Darkness) > Req (Umbra)
So technically you can do this; Dimidiation > 2k Shun (Light) > Shun (Radiance) and it ends there. So yeah it can do Radiance, just not after double light.
I assumed you meant solo Shun in the previous post, forgetting about the RUN part.
But what I have just found out leads me to believe that a NIN wouldn't need to rely on the tank to do that. Kamu > 2k Shun > Shun should do Radiance... I think.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-08-30 11:22:07
Also as a side note, I'm not entirely convinced BLMs couldn't work for this. I feel like it's been written off for a few reasons that have either been exaggerated or that there are countermeasures for.
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By Asura.Avallon 2016-08-30 11:24:18
I honestly haven't watched the videos yet but since there's no mention of Perfect Defense pre-PW form, I'm going to assume it's either not used with the new updated fight, or isn't 100% necessary in order to survive/win.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-08-30 11:46:50
We did this fight three times last weekend with less than our A-team. As such, we had no actual super tank ANY of the times we fought it. This lead to problems every goddamn time, and is really the only reason we didn't just mollywhop the ***.
Tegmina makes pretty quick work of the first phase, usually takes about 2 minutes. Phase two we had puppets pulling Medusa and the one that does the amnesia ***away from the rest of the group, and we killed the NMs one by one. Takes about 5-7 minutes to clear this one, we were never under the 20 minute mark by wave three.
Wave three is where you basically have to have a super tank, and ideally if you are using pets, TWO GOOD puppetmasters. The puppets drag The Hydra and Khimari away from the rest of the group and put them in their own little hole. Ideally anyway. The rest of the group goes to town on the Cerb and, ideally, makes short work of it. What would happen instead is that the popper would either die or lose hate, then the adds would scatter and slowly kill everyone(Every goddamn time). None of our really good tanks were online, or they couldn't pop the NM and we discovered that getting hate on TC before he form shifts doesn't do ***.
On the third run we struggled through somehow to the last phase with two minutes left and basically everyone double weakened. He basically couldn't hurt my Automaton, so once the Beastmasters were able to call a pet we whittled him down a bit before timing out.
Over the week we're going to make sure we have an actual super tank for the next attempt, and that's really about it. Diablos Dream Shroud blocks Cackle from reducing M.def, so that's nice. We weren't really that afraid of Astral Flow, and nothing else he did gave any reason to be worried. The plan was to convert the two puppets into Overdrive DD puppets, have the Beastmasters unleash, SMN PD the Beastmaster party and the Geos bolster on the final form, but by the time we got there on the third attempt we were all weakened and didn't bother. But it looks pretty promising.
Again, we're a casual shell so we don't really prepare for anything, we just kinda go do ***. But thus far we haven't seen a reason it can't be killed with pets.
By Afania 2016-08-30 12:34:29
Bahamut.Vinedrius said: »I'm still very confused though as to how a NIN is out DPSing a BLU so efficiently.
Maybe, it is because most JP BLUs are still under the mindset of macc swords from the VNM days? I don't think so lol. Seein' their using Sequence on BLU anyways lol...
Their BLUs are set up the same as English BLU's it's just different.
Bare in mind for Japanese client, there is a huge fear of Windower, and third party tools. Their largely default client.
NA and EU community largely exaggerated the benefit of 3rd pt tool. You aren't going to see massive DPS decrease without tool to a point that you can eyeball the kill speed difference.
The easiest way to find out, IMO, is to video record both blu and nin setup with chat log or scoreboard on, or at least post parse result with player dps and sc dps.
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2016-08-30 12:56:02
the Buffing runs would change virtually every NM (Earth for chariots, water for the cerb etc.) Homing Missle: Fire based, use Unda
Discoid: Light based, use Tenebrae
Ruinous Omen: Dark based, use Lux
I'm not sure if his final form lamps are like PWs, but those old ones would only cast Thunder and Blizzard based nukes.
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2016-08-30 15:42:16
the Buffing runs would change virtually every NM (Earth for chariots, water for the cerb etc.) Homing Missle: Fire based, use Unda
Discoid: Light based, use Tenebrae
Ruinous Omen: Dark based, use Lux
I'm not sure if his final form lamps are like PWs, but those old ones would only cast Thunder and Blizzard based nukes. They do. But they are slept. Thanks Paul.
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By Asura.Avallon 2016-08-30 16:25:02
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »SMN PD the Beastmaster party
Okay, so without anyone actually answering my question directly, this more or less tells me that not only is Perfect Defense used but SMN has a much larger role with certain strategies for Curator.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-08-30 16:39:34
If you are using an Epeolatry Rune and they're getting Random Deals, why not pop Liement and One For All on the Astral Flows? Being that the Astral Flow is predictable Liement-ga would seem to be easy to pull off etc?
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By Verda 2016-08-30 18:12:12
Tumult Curator came out in 2015, the NIN RUN as DD setup came out as the first win, a few months after TC came out. Their setup was some of what we based some of our setup on, including one for all usage.
There shouldn't be so much surprise, confusion or even old guarding about/against NIN's use. Of jobs that can output respectable melee dps, NIN and RUN are the two most survivable as they often serve as primary tanks. NIN also has both miga and their 1 hour as fallbacks, and due to extremely high DW, overcaps delay and suffers tp per hit just with haste cap. SE has officially stated their answer to this is Daken, which ends up letting NIN not need as much support to do well. BLU is also survivable though too survivable imo they can solo VD Levi and other equally geared jobs can't, they aren't as survivable as jobs that have historical and purposeful tank roles. Skillchain damage works well even without malaise or languor or magic acc buffs because it was designed to do just that, and the one mob highly reducing skillchain damage is only one in the entire fight. The quicker you get to the final form the better chances you have at the fight. Nin can pump out multistep skillchains quickly and their WS while not the highest raw damage for any category are very strong in multiple categories. It's not really flavor of the month it's just a different take on the game and has been for over 8 months, I've heard of the NIN RUN setup before that too but in what is escaping me.
Elak won just two days ago, our first run of the night. It will make my second win and I think it could be higher than that for Mischief, Piko and a few others. I'm happy I got the STP body, though I'll be using it probably in low acc situations on RNG rather than leveling SAM. We used BLU because we had high end BLU doing a lot of the organizing and calling the shots and BLU is a popular western pick (well, eastern too it seems). People tend to make setups around what they have the best iterations of and is most available and what they like, to be perfectly honest. Different communities have different meta games and always will, if you've ever played a multiregion competitive game you'll know this is true I don't know why it's surprising. A meta is just a take on the game, it isn't as many here and most annoyingly in almost every game community seem to think the godforsaken truth, otherwise different metas wouldn't evolve and a game dies. There is no best way, or if there is there's a 99.999% chance it's not used or discovered.
Arguably NIN can pull out more damage than THF but not sure it can exceed a BLU or a DNC playing with the same approach using their respective Aeonics. Don't bring THF into that :( And in what world does THF do less damage than the jobs listed. The optimal setup for every single job you listed will be different and focus on different things also, so even comparing them in their omgwtfbbqsauce max dps situation is hard and mob dependent, and comes with their own sets of pros and cons. When people only look at the end DPS and only for one situation I am always facepalming. I don't really want to get into it, but the damage potential thf can offer is at the least competitive, I won't use the word better because that will just start arguments.
Okay, so without anyone actually answering my question directly, this more or less tells me that not only is Perfect Defense used but SMN has a much larger role with certain strategies for Curator. Papesse was in the only other western group I know to have won at this time, but there could be others. He used SMN in that setup and PD, and on BG there is a screenshot of him delivering the final blow with Titan. He did still use One for All, but only had one COR and Random Deal isn't 100%, if you see the video we had several COR. His setup used one. One for All is really good for this, and EA + Scherzo is also very good for it. There's more than one way to victory, but whatever path you choose, it will take a lot of trial and error and adjustments to see through to a win TC is a really hard mob.
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »We did this fight three times last weekend with less than our A-team Good luck, one reason I respect you guys so much is you always give a finger to the meta and do what you enjoy and figure out how to make it work. The one thing I know that is difficult for pet jobs in this, is the bio aura he can put up in his final form. There's really no way to mitigate it, and it does stupid amounts of damage a tic, think Zerde level but no vorseals, it also has 30' range.
Also as a side note, I'm not entirely convinced BLMs couldn't work for this. I feel like it's been written off for a few reasons that have either been exaggerated or that there are countermeasures for. They are probably fine till the final form, dvergr are very magic resistant. How much hell it was to kill the dvergr in escha sky with a mana burn when it came out? Think that times 10. With melee burn you still time out a lot. I wouldn't discount mages either though. As a whole the community tends to discount a lot and focus on very few things.
Anyway, thank you for making the thread lina. I really like the hard content SE has made, the fights are very exciting and imo fun and so is thinking up and trying and then succeeding with different setups or strategies. Also, anything that gives people options rather than dictating a self serving ideal that benefits their own vested interests is thumbs up from me. That's why SE created jobs in the first place, to give player choice, not have it become some political job landscape where if you're not in support of said job you're against it etc and people that disagree with you are muscled out and voices silenced. Bandwagoners, that means you. I don't really have trouble with people that just enjoy their jobs and let others enjoy theirs too and willfully learn from each other rather than tell them their job isn't good and to start playing theirs.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-08-30 18:35:11
Also as a side note, I'm not entirely convinced BLMs couldn't work for this. I feel like it's been written off for a few reasons that have either been exaggerated or that there are countermeasures for. They are probably fine till the final form, dvergr are very magic resistant. How much hell it was to kill the dvergr in escha sky with a mana burn when it came out? Think that times 10. With melee burn you still time out a lot. I wouldn't discount mages either though. As a whole the community tends to discount a lot and focus on very few things.
I can see where you're coming from but on the other hand I don't feel like it's a fair or accurate assessment. Dvergr are magic resistant, yes, but look at the BLU's damage in the video. It's not exactly great (8~10k CDC) compared to what you might expect. Using melee as your source of damage means you need to devote more people to support jobs. Other strong mobs (Albumen, Schah, etc.) seem to take even less magic damage than Dvergr have as well yet BLM has proven to work in those situations.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-08-30 18:43:21
Also if Dvergr taking reduced magic damage is a concern, I think it's worth mentioning that (as far as I know) the level correction function is applied when fighting this mob. It's the highest level mob in non-Adoulin areas. I wouldn't be surprised if melee damage (even with capped attack/defense ratio) is taking more of a cut than magic damage on dvergr. That said I quit for a few years so this could be a totally invalid statement, if something has changed someone please correct me.
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By Sylph.Braden 2016-08-30 19:16:58
Unity NMs and merit BCs are actually capped at 99 specifically to circumvent level correction. Among other things, it increases enmity gain from damage.
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2016-08-30 19:23:04
We use 1 BLU (mythic), 1 RUN (aeonic) and 2~3 SMNs (mythic) as DDs on TC. Our average time is close to below the 20 min mark now (8 min for the three first waves and 12~ for TC) with only 2 defeats in the 10~ last pops. Our strat is rather close to the one Mischief wrote with few small differences.
The SMNs use Flaming Crush on Chariots, Mountain Buster on Beastmen Kings, Predator Claws on Hydra (we save Apogee and BoG Frailty for this one to make sure it will die before Polar Bulwark + Nerve Gas combo), Volt Strike with a Shock Squall rotation on Khimaira (Stun after Hundred Fists and after the Terror proc off if it's still alive), Spinning Dive on Cerberus and Volt Strike on the final form.
Against the Dvergr form, a SMN Apogee Hastega II + Crystal Blessing and another Apogee Dream Shroud + Earthen Armor the main party.
SCH, COR, BRD, SMNs and GEO (if we have a third) remove Shell/MDT- equip to survive AFs with EA + Scherzo.
One For All is used at 76% and 6%, Perfect Defense at 51 and 26%.
We resleep lamps at 26% : PLD awaken them with a AoE spell like Bomb Toss while a SMN uses Shock Squall then the BRD quickly reapply NT Horde Lullaby. If necesssary, we also sleep TC at this moment in order to redo few buffs.
After TC's third Astral Flow the RUN uses Odyllic Subterfuge and the SMNs can Astral Conduit zerg, the avatars will resist everything thanks to the RUN's SP and TC will often die before the final AF.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-08-30 20:11:51
Unity NMs and merit BCs are actually capped at 99 specifically to circumvent level correction. Among other things, it increases enmity gain from damage.
I see. Was this tested or was posted by a dev somewhere? I've been curious about how level correction works but all I could find was that it's not applied in Escha or Adoulin zones.
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By Sylph.Braden 2016-08-30 21:17:49
Unity NMs and merit BCs are actually capped at 99 specifically to circumvent level correction. Among other things, it increases enmity gain from damage.
I see. Was this tested or was posted by a dev somewhere? I've been curious about how level correction works but all I could find was that it's not applied in Escha or Adoulin zones.
Widescan includes mob level for whatever reason and can be used in any area through packets, including zones without maps. Level 99 Mobs are basically divided into three categories:
1. Those added before Adoulin, like Abyssea and VW bosses, who are in fact 100+ and still have level correction.
2. Those in Adoulin, Escha, and now Legion. Also 100+, but those areas lack level correction.
3. Those added after Adoulin but in zones that still have level correction. These ones are always 99 but have the stats of iLvl mobs and usually display content level. Makes for weird situations like WoE enemies actually losing levels when a walk becomes surged.
Also any mob that levels up mid-fight doesn't actually gain levels, it just gets a parameter boost.
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-08-31 02:01:35
I can see where you're coming from but on the other hand I don't feel like it's a fair or accurate assessment. Dvergr are magic resistant, yes, but look at the BLU's damage in the video. It's not exactly great (8~10k CDC) compared to what you might expect. Using melee as your source of damage means you need to devote more people to support jobs. Other strong mobs (Albumen, Schah, etc.) seem to take even less magic damage than Dvergr have as well yet BLM has proven to work in those situations. Mobs like Albumen get fought with magic setup for many other reasons too, but regardless I can see your point.
Would be fun to see how a magic setup would work in this fight.
You would need a PLD, a RUN, 2x SCH, 1 COR, 1 WHM, 3x GEO, 2x BLMs, 1x BRD/BLM (more than for buffs, it's to sleep the lamps, unless Elementalseal Sleepga works! In that case you could take a third BLM instead)
That's more or less the same amount of people as the other setups (11-12)
PLD would pop and supertank stuff.
RUN would get single targets out and occasionally use Gambit/Rayke
WHM would keep the 2 tanks alive
SCH not sure if two are needed, but given how often you'll have to accession different elements and how many mobs/SCs, you'll probably need two to rotate their stratagem charges and make good use of double Random Deal and Wildcard.
COR would be there to buff the BLMs, RD the SCHs and Wildcard. In all honesty he could be rotating betweein PTs to give some buffs to the tank pt as well.
SCH/GEO to possibly reset Tabula Rasa and Bolster.
1 GEO in tank pt for Vex and... Attunement or Fade
1 GEO Languor/Acumen
1 GEO Malaise/Focus
Focus arguably not needed for the first groups of NMs, could use INT instead. Entrust Attunement and something else, Haste for recasts?
Not sure on elements to use though. BLM gets the best out of their damage through death, and I'm confident Death wouldn't work very well on Dvergr, so you'd have to pic another element, Thunder?
And all the other NMs would need different elements too, which means waste of stratagems for the SCHs who should probably just use Accession and no Perpetuance.
Chariots => Blizzard?
Beastmen => Thunder?
ToAU kings => Water for Cerby, maybe Stone for Khim and whatever else for Hydra? Hydra's gonna be incredibly annoying with its shields. Might want to change buffs and rely on ddCOR + RUN + PLD to do some damage during physical phase
Would be nice to try this setup again and see how bad/good it does :D
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-08-31 12:06:42
I can see where you're coming from but on the other hand I don't feel like it's a fair or accurate assessment. Dvergr are magic resistant, yes, but look at the BLU's damage in the video. It's not exactly great (8~10k CDC) compared to what you might expect. Using melee as your source of damage means you need to devote more people to support jobs. Other strong mobs (Albumen, Schah, etc.) seem to take even less magic damage than Dvergr have as well yet BLM has proven to work in those situations. Mobs like Albumen get fought with magic setup for many other reasons too, but regardless I can see your point.
Would be fun to see how a magic setup would work in this fight.
You would need a PLD, a RUN, 2x SCH, 1 COR, 1 WHM, 3x GEO, 2x BLMs, 1x BRD/BLM (more than for buffs, it's to sleep the lamps, unless Elementalseal Sleepga works! In that case you could take a third BLM instead)
That's more or less the same amount of people as the other setups (11-12)
PLD would pop and supertank stuff.
RUN would get single targets out and occasionally use Gambit/Rayke
WHM would keep the 2 tanks alive
SCH not sure if two are needed, but given how often you'll have to accession different elements and how many mobs/SCs, you'll probably need two to rotate their stratagem charges and make good use of double Random Deal and Wildcard.
COR would be there to buff the BLMs, RD the SCHs and Wildcard. In all honesty he could be rotating betweein PTs to give some buffs to the tank pt as well.
SCH/GEO to possibly reset Tabula Rasa and Bolster.
1 GEO in tank pt for Vex and... Attunement or Fade
1 GEO Languor/Acumen
1 GEO Malaise/Focus
Focus arguably not needed for the first groups of NMs, could use INT instead. Entrust Attunement and something else, Haste for recasts?
Not sure on elements to use though. BLM gets the best out of their damage through death, and I'm confident Death wouldn't work very well on Dvergr, so you'd have to pic another element, Thunder?
And all the other NMs would need different elements too, which means waste of stratagems for the SCHs who should probably just use Accession and no Perpetuance.
Chariots => Blizzard?
Beastmen => Thunder?
ToAU kings => Water for Cerby, maybe Stone for Khim and whatever else for Hydra? Hydra's gonna be incredibly annoying with its shields. Might want to change buffs and rely on ddCOR + RUN + PLD to do some damage during physical phase
Would be nice to try this setup again and see how bad/good it does :D
I was thinking more along the lines of an 18 person group with 8~ BLM and about the same amount of support in the set up you mentioned.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 616
By Asura.Avallon 2016-08-31 12:12:18
Carbuncle.Papesse said: »We use 1 BLU (mythic), 1 RUN (aeonic) and 2~3 SMNs (mythic) as DDs on TC. Our average time is close to below the 20 min mark now (8 min for the three first waves and 12~ for TC) with only 2 defeats in the 10~ last pops. Our strat is rather close to the one Mischief wrote with few small differences.
The SMNs use Flaming Crush on Chariots, Mountain Buster on Beastmen Kings, Predator Claws on Hydra (we save Apogee and BoG Frailty for this one to make sure it will die before Polar Bulwark + Nerve Gas combo), Volt Strike with a Shock Squall rotation on Khimaira (Stun after Hundred Fists and after the Terror proc off if it's still alive), Spinning Dive on Cerberus and Volt Strike on the final form.
Against the Dvergr form, a SMN Apogee Hastega II + Crystal Blessing and another Apogee Dream Shroud + Earthen Armor the main party.
SCH, COR, BRD, SMNs and GEO (if we have a third) remove Shell/MDT- equip to survive AFs with EA + Scherzo.
One For All is used at 76% and 6%, Perfect Defense at 51 and 26%.
We resleep lamps at 26% : PLD awaken them with a AoE spell like Bomb Toss while a SMN uses Shock Squall then the BRD quickly reapply NT Horde Lullaby. If necesssary, we also sleep TC at this moment in order to redo few buffs.
After TC's third Astral Flow the RUN uses Odyllic Subterfuge and the SMNs can Astral Conduit zerg, the avatars will resist everything thanks to the RUN's SP and TC will often die before the final AF.
Lots of great strategies and information being posted here, but as a fellow SMN I have to say thank you for providing a detailed low down on how you're using your SMN's for this.
I may have to hit up some SMN friends to try out this method. Yes, I'm looking at you Pergatory. :)
Fenrir.Snaps
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1139
By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-08-31 20:00:06
If anybody cares,
Ten -> Kamu -> 1000~1999 TP Shun -> Shun is Fragmentation -> Light -> Radiance.
A thread to discuss this NM Exclusively, and a collective resource for anyone interested in this Fight.
This Notorious Monster is one of the hardest 6+ man content. It is based of the original Pandemonium Warden fight, but ready at 145 content level, the highest within the game.
To obtain access to Tumult Curator, you must clear the Unity ToAU Kings, Shedu(Khim)*, Sarama(Cerb) and Thu'uban(Hydra).
*There is a bug with being able to use the Unity warp to fight this NM, some people can, some people cannot warp to this fight. But walking to the pop and winning will still grant access to Curator.
Tumult Curator goes through his phases similar to the Original Pandy fight, but with an added spin. Instead of popping as just the single Mega Boss, he will spawn first as the Salvage Bosses, all of them simultaneously. Then All the Beastmen ToAU Mega bosses, then all the Beasts (Khim,cerb,Hydra) bosses, until finally he transforms into a Single, Pandy warden with his Lamps.
When in this Form, he has access to Astral flow, which he will always use at 74%, 49%, 24% and 4%. All Drevgr abilities, Sleepaga II (Which will seemingly always land), A 300HP a Tick Bio Aura (Which does not break sleep....?)
As you can tell, he can be a nasty piece of work without the proper communication.
How do you fight this NM?
There is one of two strats, one is far more well known the other i will be covering myself, and is based of a Japanese battle plan, written on a Linkshell blog (I'll find the link later).
Super BLU Meta Style:
The most "Known" Strategy for Tumult Curator is the the Strategy written by Mischief, available on this video.
YouTube Video Placeholder
With the write up of his strategy written bellow. Tumult Curator
Setup (Initial - subjobs shown where notable) - PLD (popper) SCH/BLM GEO COR COR RUN/SAM | BLU/RUN BLU/RUN WHM GEO GEO BRD/BLM*
The sixth spot in the melee party swapped between the BRD, both CORs, and the RUN. Other DDs can be effective if top geared: Samurai in particular can be greatly helpful on the Dvergr because of Warding Circle and Hamanoha.
Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to do this with anything but a melee setup. Magic is ineffective or worse against Troll, Cerberus, Khimaira, and (most importantly) Dvergr, and RNGs probably can't output the damage required in time (roughly 2.4M all told with 12 people). Not to mention hate is the same as all other UNMs: damage is king. A BST strat might be able to do enough damage, but Dvergr Astral Flow, incessant Curse spam, nasty magic damage/status ailments and 300/tick Bio aura might be unsustainable. IDK, prove me wrong if you feel like it~
Buffs:
Geomancy: Indi-Vex/Attunement, Geo-Fury/Frailty for GEOs in melee pt, Indi-Attunement/Geo-Torpor for GEO in other pt. We Entrusted Fend/Fade for Dvergr, you decide if that's worthwhile and what (if anything) to Entrust beforehand. Vex and Attunement are by far the most important, and need to be kept up fulltime. Both GEOs in melee party MUST have Idris, the one in the other party can get away without it (but still very helpful).
Rolls: Hunter's, Magus, Samurai. Fourth roll as whatever your DDs want, we chose Rogue's for the extra crit rate for CDC.
Songs: Honor March/Minuetx3 pre-Dvergr, Honor March/Madrigal/Madrigal/Minuet on Dvergr. Honor March is mandatory. Four songs is not, but helps enormously. Fifth song during Clarion Call can be a Minuet, or anything else you think might help.
Both Blue Mages had Cocoon, Barrier Tusk, and Saline Coat set in addition to other normal spells. I had Magic Barrier set in case of emergencies, though some other spell in that slot might be better.
The Fight:
-PLD spawns and supertanks everything. BRD gives them Scherzo before they pop, no other buffs are really needed. Use Aegis.
-SCH looks after the PLD until the Dvergr form.
-GEOs be sure to tag every new enemy to ensure your bubbles are working on them! A tier 1 nuke or meleeing it will suffice.
Phase I: Four Chariots (Level 119) - Order: Long-Armed Chariot -> Whatever
-Just kill the Long-Armed Chariot first to prevent Brainjack from going off, then kill the rest in any order.
-Scherzo on the PLD to prevent a one-shot from Discoid (10k needles, magic damage).
Phase II: ToAU Beastmen Kings (Level 125) - Order: Gurfurlur -> Gulool -> Medusa
-Gurfurlur is killed first to hopefully prevent Arcane Stomp from going off. This TP move lets him heal from all magic damage, so switch to WSes that will NOT trigger Skillchains (we used Savage Blade) if it does get used.
-Gurfurlur has nasty conal moves, including Amnesia and heavy Knockback. Pleiades Ray, used under 50%, can inflict things like Stun, Paralyze, Blind, Silence, Plague, etc. if not resisted (knockback -> Pleiades can suck...).
-Gulool Ja Ja's Miasma can inflict Slow and Plague if not resisted. Mijin Gakure is used under 5% health, and can be deadly if allowed to use at 3% or higher; try to get it from 6% -> 1% instantly.
-Medusa's Eagle Eye Shot can one-shot a DD without Defense buffs up (Cocoon and Defending Ring are sufficient). Has a lot of Petrify moves, mostly gaze and/or conal.
Phase III: Thu'ban, Sarama, Shedu (Level 135) - Order: Hydra -> Khimaira -> Cerberus
-Hydra starts at 50%, and regains 25% every time he grows a head back, like Tinnin and Thu'ban. After all three heads are back, he will Polar Bulwark; it is possible to defeat him before this goes off with a strong enough skillchain.
-Hydra is dragged back to where it is to prevent Nerve Gas (30' range) from hitting the PLD.
-Tumult Lamps associated with Hydra (Dahaks) can use Nullsong if allowed to live too long, almost certainly killing the PLD. They despawn when Hydra does.
-Keep defense buffs up for Khimaira, and use Bio instead of Dia: Hundred Fists can be brutal if not proc'd. Proc seems to be somewhat random. RUN and /RUN use Tellus and Pflug on this to help avoid Stun effects.
-Fight Cerberus exactly like you fight UNM Sarama. Unda/Vallation helps, but Vex/Attunement should block almost everything.
-The SCH curing the PLD supertank should be wary of Gates of Hades from Cerberus, it can kill them if they aren't careful.
Phase IV: Dvergr (Level 145):
-Dvergr uses:
Spells: Curse, Impact, Sleepga II, Blindga, Dispelga, Tier V -ga spells, Tier VI Single nukes, Meteor. Most debuffs from spells will land even through Vex/Attunement, and nukes can one-shot a DD if not resisted.
Uses normal Dvergr TP moves: Hellsnap, Hellclap, Thundris Shriek, Bilgestorm, Necropurge, Necrobane, and Cackle. Some have additional effects beyond the normal:
Thundris Shriek: Respawns any Tumult Lamps that had been defeated. Any Lamps that are awake when this is used level up.
Hellclap: Copies Tumult Curator's enmity list to every Tumult Lamp (this is why Lullaby is vital).
Bilgestorm: Gives Tumult Curator and all Tumult Lamps a ~250-300 damage/tick Bio aura (this is why SCH comes into the main party at start for Regen V/Embrava). The Defense Down effect from this move is ruinous and must be removed immediately, or Tumult Curator will hit for 700+ (easily fatal when cursed). Bio aura has a 30' range.
-Tumult Lamps can use most of the things Tumult Curator does, but their spells are a tier lower. Dispel/Curse spam can kill your PLD before you're ready to fight if you're not careful.
-Fully rebuff after Dvergr spawns, in this order, Samurai/Rogue (or whatever other roll you want) COR -> Hunter/Magus COR -> SCH (Tabula Rasa Regen V/Embrava, prioritize duration on this!) -> BRD. BRD uses full JAs, Horde Lullaby on all 6 lamps (make sure you sleep all 6, use harp if you need!), then comes back and sings.
-Accuracy requirement for Dvergr seems to be around 1600, if not a bit lower. Without songs/rolls, it can be a whiff fest.
-If 2xBLU like we did, they must keep the following up at all times: Lux x2 (Vallation/Pflug when up), Mighty Guard (alternating), Erratic Flutter, Saline Coat, Barrier Tusk, and Cocoon. Nat. Meditation is nice but not essential. Cocoon especially is vital, it nearly cuts Tumult Curator's melee damage in half. Bring Viles. Unbridled Wisdom can be used for Harden Shell at any point if desired (preferably under 24%).
-Melee should have at least some DT locked for this. I locked Defending Ring and Loricate Torque +1. Not having any is asking to get one-shot at some point.
-SCH/BLM is for Elemental Seal Breakga (Manifestation) on the Tumult Lamps right before they wake, so the BRD can immediately resleep them.
-The GEOs in the melee party must survive! Screw the Refresh pieces: if you're not recasting Geomancy, use DT- gear fulltime! Bring Viles to keep your MP up! (This also applies to basically anyone that isn't a DD, but especially for GEOs.)
-Everyone that isn't WHM or BLU (or maybe GEO if having MP issues) should have Vile Elixirs in their bazaar at 1g. Your WHM will need them.
-WHM has a heavy burden on them in this fight. Melees can bring Holy Water or Panacea if they can't remove the debuffs fast enough. Vex/Attunement should hopefully block most debuffs, but some (mostly Curse spam) will get through. Don't hesitate to buy viles off of other players' bazaars!
-Consider Poison Potions or an equivalent if you're not a melee; Sleepga II almost never gets resisted, even with Bolster'd Idris Vex/Attunement. Bilgestorm Bio aura will wake you up immediately, of course, but that's not always up.
-Remove Bilgestorm's Defense Down effect immediately if it lands. Do not hesitate to Panacea this.
-Those in the other party that don't need to be close to Tumult Curator should probably stand 30' away from everything to avoid Bilgestorm's Bio aura.
-At 74%, 49%, 24%, and 4%, he will use Astral Flow. The RUN must be in the melee party for this, and must One For All (magic phalanx equal to 20% of recipient's maximum HP at the time the buff lands: blocks this AF nicely) all 6 members in that party the moment it goes off. Do not run if you're in the melee party, or you will probably die and/or get your WHM angry with you. Those not in the melee party should scatter and hope more than one avatar doesn't come after them.
-Each avatar summoned by Astral Flow targets a random person, walks to them, and uses their Astral Flow before disappearing. The AoE range is fairly short. One For All will block most if not all of the damage to the melee party; other party will probably suffer some casualties. This is fine, only the GEO suffers from dying and you can probably do without Torpor with all buffs up.
-One For All must be reset after every Astral Flow before the next one is triggered. BRD needs their JAs reset before the Tumult Lamps wake up. Don't hesitate to Wild Card if you have two Corsairs. Hold damage if you need to, the RUN must be in the melee party before Astral Flow goes off or you die.
-The RUN should not use any JAs other than One For All if you're only getting Random Deal. If you are getting Wild Card, use everything (don't forget Warding Circle). Lux runes.
-Upon sleeping the Tumult Lamps a second time, redo the melee songs while JAs are still up. Hold damage if you need to avoid triggering an Astral Flow.
-Don't hesitate to use Cleric's Drink and/or Megalixir from Ambuscade points if they're needed - where else are you going to use them?
-Enjoy your shiny new title, Rare Enemy vorseal, and (probably crappy) Tumult Curator's Coffer drop! I got the staff...yay? At least it beats the Master Trial's useless lockstyle drop...
There are several Pro's and con's to this fight style. Here's some of the Key ones in my opinion.
Pro's:
Con's:
Super Ninjustu style
This fight is currently nearly exclusively used by Japanese players, but i understand the fight well enough to write this out in full for anyone regardless of language to write out.
So first things first, this style largely capitalizes on the NIN Aeonic. If you have ever seen any Japanese players with Aeonics, i guarantee you they have the NIN Aeonic. As much as many people view most aeonics as trophy pieces, a NIN set up well can solo Radiance all day every day, whatever the weather. From my Experience with both the BLU style and the NIN style, This soul factor means a solo NIN is just as fast as two BLUs, As Crazy sounding as that may seem... <_<;
So here is the write up.
Party Set ups
Party 1, Main Party: NIN (Can be /RUN) (Aeonic Ofc...), RUN/WAR(Epeolatry), WHM/SCH(Yagrush), GEO(Idris), GEO(Idris), COR/WHM **Will be moving parties**
Party 2, popper and Buffers: PLD, WHM(Support for him/her)*, BRD/BLM(We had a 4 Song Bard here), SCH/RDM or /BLM (For Break), BRD/WHM. (This bard doesn't rotate), **Free Party Slot**
*Isn't necessary, but safer. This could be the SCH however.
Buffs:
GEO: Indi-Attunement, Geo Vex, Indi- Precission, Geo-Frailty. Entrusting Dex.
SCH: Regen V, Phalanx, Thunderstorm II and Embrava for final boss.
Rotating Bard: Scherzo, March, Honor March, Madrigal and a Minuet when One houred. Ballading the WHM.
Buff Party BRD: Ballads... Always Ballads and Scherzo for the tank if you feel fancy pantsy.
COR: Chaos Roll / Samurai Roll OR Magus roll / Samurai roll. Your choice.
Item's everyone needs:
Panacea, Poison pots/El. Pachira fruit/Gnatbane, Remedies.
Item's WHM needs:
Elixer's in case of MP Emergancy.
Pre Fight Info:
The RUN and NIN will be meleeing Together, The RUN can open with a Dimidation, to set up for the Blade:Shun spam for the NIN. To assist in making Light's.
The Fight:
Before the fight, make sure all parties are fully buff and rotated, if you feel extra fancy the second bard could rotate here too. Songs you'd have to organize here yourself /o/ i've been writing this for like an hour now w.
* PLD is spawning.
* Second WHM or SCH is healing the PLD.
Phase 1:
Four Chariots and Gear "lamps". Order: Long Armed Chariot (The biggest army guy) -> Whatever
-PLD will need Scherzo.
-Kill Long armed to prevent Brainjack.
-WHM should Barthundra/Barparalyze for the full duration.
Phase 2:
ToAU Kings, (Medusa, Troll guy, Lizard guys). Order: Gurfurlur -> Gulool -> Medusa
-Gurfur first in an attempt to stop arcane stomp. If this goes off, Swap the Weapon skills to Sickle moon -> Blade Shun. This will not make a skillchain, thus wont heal.
-Barparalyze, and Bar ice is preferred here.
-Has a Conal called Pleiades Ray under 50%, which is Paralyze, silence, blind, virus, bind.... Vex and Attunement are at there most needed here. They will still half land even with these up, WHM needs to be aware of this.
-Gulool Ja Ja's Miasma can inflict Slow and Plague if not resisted. Mijin Gakure is used under 5% health, and can be deadly if allowed to use at 3% or higher; try to get it from 6% -> 1% instantly. Although, within this strat, i have personally seen this happen once.
-Medusa's Eagle eye shot is much less of a threat here, due to shadows. Gorgan dance is Petrify, but has a long cast, so a WHM can 100% Precast this ability.
-BarStone and Bar Petrify here if you want.
Phase 3:
Hydra, Khim, Cerb phase. Order: Hydra -> Cerb -> Khim.
-These can all be proc'd i assume the same proc condition's as their Unity counterparts.
-Make sure you are pulling these out of range of their AoEs. Paralyze from the Cerb is a douche.
-Any support /WHM should be assisting paralyna's.
-Hydra first:
-It can use Nerve Gas, be aware. And it will land with poison and curse...
-Hydra starts at 50%, and regains 25% every time he grows a head back, like Tinnin and Thu'ban. After all three heads are back, he will Polar Bulwark
- Barice and Barparalyze here.
-Cerb can be nasty thus why i prefer second over Khim.
-Fought the same as Sarama.
-Divine Carass is a WHM's friend here.
-Remove Burn as fast as you can... especially on yourself... it hurts... a lot..
-Barfire, barparalyze.
-Use Bio on the Khim, and try to proc him, he is relatively easy compared to everything else thus far.
Phase 4:
-Dvergr uses:
Spells: Curse, Impact, Sleepga II, Blindga, Dispelga, Tier V -ga spells, Tier VI Single nukes, Meteor. Most debuffs from spells will land even through Vex/Attunement, and nukes can one-shot a DD if not resisted.
Uses normal Dvergr TP moves: Hellsnap, Hellclap, Thundris Shriek, Bilgestorm, Necropurge, Necrobane, and Cackle.
Some have additional effects beyond the normal:
Thundris Shriek: Respawns any Tumult Lamps that had been defeated. Any Lamps that are awake when this is used level up.
Hellclap: Copies Tumult Curator's enmity list to every Tumult Lamp (this is why Lullaby is vital).
Bilgestorm: Gives Tumult Curator and all Tumult Lamps a ~250-300 damage/tick Bio aura (this is why SCH comes into the main party at start for Regen V/Embrava). The Defense Down effect from this move is ruinous and must be removed immediately, or Tumult Curator will hit for 700+ (easily fatal when cursed). Bio aura has a 30' range.
Apparently you need 1600 Accuracy for this part????. You have been warned.
-Buffing time! Time to rotate people once more. Start with the SCH, Their buffs will last longer, make sure they Embrava JUST before you Lullaby the Lamps. Then go to the COR rolls, then Bard songs (Due to Nitro one hours), Throw the COR back into the main party.
The Bard will Open the fight with a Lullaby to sleep the adds.
-The SCH Dependent on subjob, will need to be fully aware of the Sleep timers on the Adds, as they will at some point be required to use Break, to allow for the second bard to sleep them all again.
-At 74%, 49%, 24%, and 4%, he will use Astral Flow, no questions asked.
-Stop DPS before an Astral flow %, to allow for One for all to be used by the RUN, to increase survivabillity.
-The RUN should not use any JAs other than One For All if you're only getting Random Deal.
-One For All must be reset after every Astral Flow before the next one is triggered. (Start with a Random Deal, then Wild card the next, then random deal).
-WHM shoud Asylum at 25%~
-The GEOs,WHM and RUN MUST Survive the full length of the fight, if they die, it's a wipe. Wear full MDT/PDT if you need too, screw Refresh armor.
-Keep Poison Pots/w/e your using up at all times.
-WHM needs to be aware of Debuffs. Erase spam when not curing.
-BarThundra and w/e other bar spell you want.
-If you have Cleric's drinks. Use them, same with Megalixers.
Pro's and con's:
Pro's:
Con's:
I hope this helps, and allows for the collection of additional data for this NM.
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