July 2016 Version Update

I think when he meant jobs that need support, he was really talking about 2handers vs BLU, ultimately. BLU can have fulltime haste without needing a mage, can do winds to remove some debuffs, have shadows which can provide some measure of defense, and their accuracy is above normal. Mathematically, your average BLU has to work less harder to not be a liability than an average DRK or WAR, for instance. BLU, for the most part, can get by just having a frailty/fury geo and that's basically it for buffs. DRK has to wiggle a bit more our of their gear to really stand out.

Of course, I'm just talking the average player. If you are doing an event and you have your choice of a blu, drk, drg, or war (and you don't know their specific gear beforehand), which would you think gets the favorable nod 'just because'? It's almost undoubtedly the BLU just based on what it brings to the table.

I do think, though, that the other jobs are great if the right person is playing it.

Thanks Buukki. I hope one day people will shout for "DD", and not "BLU" every single time.

And your solution to this is to bar 1handers from wearing an ammo that doesn't give accuracy. Accuracy is an issue, yes. Really it's an issue for almost everyone, but I agree that DRK gets hosed here. Doesn't mean this is how you fix it.

And in doing so will do less damage than a DRK or WAR. If they have to cast defensive abilities, that hurts them too. Going BLU is not a get out of jail free card for such things. Everyone has to make sacrifices in such situations. The fact that BLU has such defensive abilities built in is, gasp, appropriate to its hybrid design.

...rampant misperceptions in the community.

If players on this forum redirected even half their energies from kicking and screaming on the floor into advancing our understanding of the game and getting good, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now. It's goddamn embarrassing to see how badly the community has regressed over the past few years.

Seem rather angry there Nightfyre. Did I say the tathlum was the solution to every problem 2 handers have? No. Did I say the tathlum would help the accuracy situation? No. I was talking about status ailments crippling their potential. With 5 Smite traits I may not need as much attack in my gear, so I won't feel like I'm weak for using an excessive accuracy set. But you take an average BLU or THF, and compare them to an average DRK, the 1-handers have the advantage. I never said the tathlum would fix that problem, so you put words in my mouth.

But yeah, when someone comes along and says "you're all wrong, get good!", that's the time I tune out of the conversation. Try to portray your arguments with a little maturity and I might just take your points seriously. I love being proven wrong, so do it!

And noone said that, did they?

You're wrong for saying that a good and fairly unique defensive piece should be limited to certain jobs.

Edit: If anything, it's more of shame when items (especially accessories) are limited to certain jobs.

I was being sarcastic. I know it's for all jobs, I was just saying that it "should have" been for 2-handers as they need it the most. That's not the case, and I already accepted it the second I saw "All Jobs". I talked about the status ailment thing many months before this update. At least they gave us something, it's not like mages need that tathlum anyways. Might see more melee parties instead of the usual SCH + BLM setup if the tathlum is any good and easy to get.

Also I noticed why Nightfyre got SO defensive. He's a BLU and is afraid his favourite job will be nerfed, or other jobs will be powered up. That's all I can see from his comment. And anyone agreeing with that is probably a full-time BLU as well.

I've been very, very repetitive when I say I would never want to see a nerf for BLU or any job for that matter. If some of the other DD jobs got a decent buff, then I would be happy because I wouldn't feel like I'm hampering the party by coming a DD job which isn't BLU.

Indeed it is, I feel like nothing will change their minds until the other jobs are given some more updates or until a nerf is given. Even a psuedo nerf like the one BST got would be enough to make the idiot masses get off the bandwagon.

(Not directed at Draylo, I understand what he's saying. Not actually directed at anyone here)

It always amazes me when people scream for nerfs rather than buffs. Nerfing BLU or DNC isn't going to make the boss any more tolerable for your WAR or SAM. Nerf GEO? Lol, that nerfs everyone. Instead, buff bard.

People are asking for GEO nerf? Funny, thats like the most OP job in the game atm and I've rarely see people complain on it. BRD def needs a buff, I'd rather nobody get nerfs though except Dawn Muslims on BST, that needs a mega nerf.

DRK doesn't need any buffs to its damage, unlike some of the other 2-handers. More accuracy would be welcome though. That's literally the only thing DRK needs (in terms of acc/atk stats), even more so if you're using Lib and not Rag. Warrior should be able to survive all kinds of offense and keep going. Dragoon could have so much done to it, yet all the updates go to BST SMN and PUP.

I feel very sorry for MNK, and anyone who loves that job is in the same boat as others. SAM isn't too bad, it's able to set up skillchains very easily (and change it up at will), but again they are going to suffer to keep them goingflowing against anything dangerous.

I'm not on any bandwagon. I stated that the other jobs are great when the right person is playing it. Don't shoot the messenger, the playerbase already thinks exactly what I stated, at least the average player.

Obviously those who have a bit more game and job knowledge aren't crammed into a small bubble with what jobs do and don't work. I get this. But the overall perception is that "ehh I can get this done easily with a BLU/geo//pld/whm and not have to think about it rather than invite this DRG and be concerned if he will perform up to par".

Misperception indeed, but it's the general idea of what people think. I won't even play my BLU to certain shout groups that demand for it (SR, Delve, Apex etc), and generally ask if I can join as DRK. I always get the "sorry, need a BLU for this" response. This is the prevailing view overall (That 2handers are less helpful than others), and I don't get mad about it. I'm just stating it. It's not what I believe though.

Anyways, I digress away from the point of this thread, which was about lolSmite so far.

Exactly. I've been guilty of doing this myself. I know some EXCELLENT BLUs on my server (shout out to Kaepernick) who I would invite before any other DD. I could get a WAR /tell me, but if Kaepernicks free I'm taking him. His damage is sick, and he doesn't need much support. So many players have BLU ready because it's safer and does more damage without the support of an awesome WHM. And it's a proven method, which is what most want because they don't want to waste time experimenting to give someone a chance.

Damn .. I can go DRK with my Mythic, and be like .. umm, can I get a Haste please? Hello? Anyone? WHM? Can you stop curing that BLU please and give me a haste? ....

.... battle ends. Sigh, I wish I had haste in that fight. I should have gone /rdm and done it myself.

What do you have against Dawns? They heal an unpredictable amount of life, cannot be bought from a NPC, do not stack(Less of an issue since Wardrobe2+) and are the only way to heal a pet outside of Reward, which is on a long timer. Player characters can be cured, pets cannot. The synth is like level 90 something, so you have to have a dedicated crafting mule to make them. Also, farming that honey/chips ain't exactly fun. While you CAN carry a shitton of them and make them broken, it's the result of hours of prep and inventory sacrifice.

Ahem, anyway. Aside from a light based sleep, Bard doesn't offer anything another buffing jobs doesn't already give a better version of.

BRD can Reraisega, which I am proud to say I actually managed to get off on a couple AA shout groups back in the day when the fight was about to end badly.

I tried, that's all I could come up with, though Honor March is nice.

I've recently said to my friends, GEO is so strong, you always need one for difficult things. Mob hitting too hard with magic? Enfeeble it with GEO bubbles. Too evasive? Slap on precision or whatever bubbles. BRD has very little to contribute to mage based strategies unless it involves a gimmick like lullaby ***. They can ballad to give refresh, they can carol to reduce elemental damage to the party, they can march mages to reduce recast timers. That's all. GEO can massively increase mage nuking power.

But we all know that.

GEO replaced BRD as the primary buffer job. If you could give BRD songs that like, decrease magic evasion on the mob, or increase magic evasion to the party, maybe it'd be more useful.

I love how this is followed by:


You're basically saying "I'm right, you're wrong. And if you don't think I'm right then you have a vested interest and want to keep screwing over everyone else." A thread full of blu's going "blu is pretty strong but we should buff other jobs to make them more equal" and drk's going "I want a buff so i'm the best dps. 2hander's were the best dps for the past 10years and I don't want that to change. Nerf everyone else and make drk and I suppose other 2hand jobs the only option again".

You have haste woes, you have att woes, you have acc woes. I think we should talk about the true savior to this problem.... #MakeRDMGreatAgain

Whoa! Where did I say I want DRK to be #1? It's like no one reads ... I said this a MILLION times, I don't want 2-handers to be the dominant force. I have many friends who are Blue Mages, why would I want them to feel left out? Seriously, learn how to read.

Let me spell this out for you .. I want people to shout "(Looking For Members) DD", not "(Looking For Members) BLU", or "(Looking For Members) WAR DRK DRG MNK SAM". Of course people are always going to play what is perceived as the strongest, but at the moment it's obviously BLU. It shouldn't be obviously. It should be.. damn that BLU has a Tizona .. and that DRK has a Rag afterglow. Let's take both instead of that average BLU over there.

You noticed I play BLU? ***, guess my cover as a PLD main is blown now.

I've been a BLU main for a long, long time. I remember the days when it struggled for invites. I played it then, as I do now. I have no interest in joining the rat race, as anyone who knows me can tell you. Changes in job balance would have little or no impact on the way I play the game. Worst case... I might play RUN a bit more?

I call it how I see it. When our understanding of the game suggested that BLU was potentially a top tier DD, I pointed to the real issue: CDC. When we (I, after a suggestion from Tarowyn) found that CDC was actually much less powerful than current models suggested, I revised my view of the game accordingly. I adapted and explored new options.

I am. It's frustrating how so many potentially worthwhile discussions on this site get derailed into bandwagon discussions fueled by misinformation.

2handers are actually in a very good place damage-wise. They have great baseline damage output and generally good skillchain options too. Most of them have viable defensive tools, and much of their defensive potential through gear is underutilized. Intelligent defensive play doesn't cripple their potential to nearly the degree that the community here seems to believe. The biggest complicating factor with integrating BLU with other DDs is easily the awkward availability of haste buffs, an issue I've pointed to on multiple occasions in the past.

As far as ease of use... I've seen what a typical bandwagon BLU does. It's nothing special. The problem there is once again one of perception and misinformation, so the real solution is simply to educate the playerbase. It won't happen overnight, but I'd rather take that route than set up potential balance issues further down the road.

Are there a few minor changes I'd make to various DDs given the opportunity? Sure. But as far as I'm concerned, the only DD job that's really in a position to complain about DPS these days is MNK. Accuracy is a bit of a "wait and see" prospect for me since we know SE is currently looking into that issue.

That's the impression I'm getting. H2H are boned, sam got completely left out of a update to damage, poor drg, and I keep seeing "drk needs acc, drk needs haste, drk doesn't get invited, drk is beat by blu". That may not be the message you are going for but that's the one I'm getting.

Also, I love how you post and then someone else replies and then you go back to change your original post to convey a different message. That's...that's special.

Oh, bard has some advantages over GEO, but only rarely are they enough to favor bard.

- Mobility
- MP not an issue
- Different buffs to different party members
- An assortment of buffs (whereas geo has 2-3 for the full party, bard can put several different ones on several different people)
- Light based dispel
- It doesn't have to stay in combat range
- If it's just the tank in combat range, Bard doesn't even have to go in combat range.
- I think it can manage the best refresh in the game for Death BLMs I guess, and Scherzo is not without use.

Aside from its own unique and potent buffs, GEO has

- buffs can't be dispelled
- reapplying is easy
- unresistable
- in a game that won't give us more clear information about debuffs wearing off the boss, it's easy to know when the geo bubble is gone.

BLU can solo really well, DRK can't. While I would love to do low-man stuff on DRK, it's not a low-man job. I suppose back when there were no trusts, you could get an Apoc and solo some cool things others couldn't, but nowadays it really isn't.

BLU can get away with soloing NMs other DD jobs can't with Trusts. That's fine, Blue Mages can do that to their hearts content. But when DD jobs who can't solo very well, can't get into parties because the BLUs get all the invites .. then what? Do we just .. level BLU instead?

I only make minor edits on posts I've already made to clear up spelling or grammar mistakes. The impression you're getting is wrong, and you judge me unfairly. I've been DRK since 2004, I've been left out in the cold like BLUs used to be in the Abyssea days. I know how it feels to be wanted, and not be wanted. What would be great is if ALL the DD jobs were wanted. Not just "what works right now". That's what I've been trying to explain to people for years, but some see it as me wanted DRK on top, when that's not the case at all.

I was kind of kidding, but I think you get what I was saying about BRD. But nothing about this can be debated: it needs a buff.

Minor? What I quoted was your entire post.

Most notably, it doesn't have to stay in party...

Too soon?

This just in, hybrid job excels in situations that reward utility.

Believe it or not, BLU solo isn't actually worthwhile on a lot of things. DRK can solo most of what's actually somewhat efficient for a BLU to solo. The rest is mostly epeen/personal accomplishment type stuff.

No, you stop complaining on forums and start educating the playerbase so that we can all get back to playing our favorite jobs in peace.

Ok, so I replied quickly. Then I thought I didn't explain enough, so I expanded. I wasn't to know you would reply as quickly as you did. Again, you're trying to attack my credibility instead of discussing the points made. What does that say about you?

Last shout on Bismarck :

«Ambuscade» «book» 2 «Paladin» / «Rune Fencer» «Geomancer» / «Thief» / «Ranger» @ 4/6

I don't understand all this nonsense about BLU's getting tossed at everything.

You become known as "that good Rag WAR" or "Damn that guy's DRK is amazing".

If you want to fiddle in the pool of average, don't complain if you don't get picked.

Not saying you're not already known, that's a "how to handle these things" kinda thing. It works for BLUs too. You don't really want a random BLU. I know I don't. You see two different things, BLUs and non-BLUs, I see average players crying and non-average players doing their thing without much trouble.

I'm not complaining, I'm discussing. This is a subject I have talked to many, in private messages and in-game. I'm not the only one who thinks like this, and I'm definitely not someone who just sits here and says nothing. I have a right to an opinion, if you don't like that, then you know what to do.

I agree with most of what you said, I just don't agree with those trying to attack my credibility and judging me like I'm a crybaby when I'm trying to put my points across. I'm "complaining" because you don't agree with my opinion.

It's not going to stop me gearing my DRK and getting it to job master. Yeah, I'm like .. the last DRK on Cerberus, while every other DD is BLU or THF. That's fine, I'll get on with it when I'm ready.