Ps2 Limitations Brah... NO MORE!

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Ps2 Limitations Brah... NO MORE!
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 Phoenix.Keido
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By Phoenix.Keido 2016-02-25 06:21:01
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*This email is being sent to the email addresses of all Square Enix accounts that possess a FINAL FANTASY XI service account.

As previously announced on Thursday, March 19, 2015, PlayStation(R)2 and Xbox 360(R) service for FINAL FANTASY XI will end on Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 6:00 a.m. (PST).

As such, PlayStation(R)2 and Xbox 360(R) service will not be available after March 31, 2016 at 6:00 a.m. (PST).

Automatic billing for active FINAL FANTASY XI accounts will persist through the cancellation of PlayStation(R)2 and Xbox 360(R) service. Those wishing to cancel their accounts are advised to do so manually.

Those currently enjoying FINAL FANTASY XI on their PlayStation(R)2 or Xbox 360(R) will be able to continue playing on the Windows(R) version.

Follow the procedures laid out in the below link to continue adventuring in the world of Vana’diel via Windows(R).

Installing PlayOnline/FINAL FANTASY XI for Windows(R)
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/download/media/install_win.html

Players may continue enjoying FINAL FANTASY XI with the same SQUARE ENIX Account, PlayOnline ID and PlayOnline password after installation.

==========
The FINAL FANTASY XI Operations Team

* Please contact the SQUARE ENIX Support Center if you have any questions about this mail or for any related inquiries.
SQUARE ENIX Support Center: http://sqex.to/FRo
*This e-mail has been sent automatically. Any e-mails sent to this address will not be answered.

Finally! Finally we are free!
 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2016-02-25 06:28:34
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and now that we are free SE unveils their biggest plan of all time ever for infinity they are going to do
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By Zubis 2016-02-25 06:32:40
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I doubt it's just a coincidence we're getting a Mog Wardrobe 2 a week after PS2/Xbox 360 service is shutdown.

With a month to go sure mostly people have moved over?
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 Sylph.Elwynbelwyn
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By Sylph.Elwynbelwyn 2016-02-25 07:02:42
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One thing that I am hoping comes from this is keeping the damn inventory in RAM instead of reloading it on every zone change.
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 leo
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By leo 2016-02-25 07:03:25
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I don't think this will mean any changes. Whatever.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-02-25 07:05:26
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Sylph.Elwynbelwyn said: »
One thing that I am hoping comes from this is keeping the damn inventory in RAM instead of reloading it on every zone change.
Wishful thinking!
Would be incredibly awesome but I'm very skeptic they're gonna modify something THAT DEEP.

Alternatively it would be enough to change the way information (packets) is exchanged between client and server.
I'm no expert but if I recall atm this is set to a model with a plethora of incredibly small packets.
Having less, bigger packets being exchanged between client and server should in theory serve as a considerable performance increase in the speed at which some data is loaded (for instance inventory stuff too)


Again, I seriously doubt they'll go that far but hey, a man galka can hope!
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-02-25 07:11:27
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Isn't XI built on a PS2 engine? Won't that still present limitations?
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-02-25 07:22:48
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Anna Ruthven said: »
Isn't XI built on a PS2 engine? Won't that still present limitations?
Theoretically: no.
With enough budget and will they could rebuild every single byte of the game if they really wanted to, once the PS2/X360 support is dropped.

Realistically: yes. Because it's way too much effort for some type of operations for them to even bother.
There's still hope they will be able to fix/improve some small things here and there though.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-02-25 07:24:39
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I thought their budget is why they are down to small updates now. It would be funny if XI took off again, like they faked it's death to get rid of the PS2 and 360 people.
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 Asura.Isiolia
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By Asura.Isiolia 2016-02-25 07:26:03
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Anna Ruthven said: »
Isn't XI built on a PS2 engine? Won't that still present limitations?

Pretty much, yeah, they'd need to reengineer underlying stuff to really change certain things, and it's unlikely they're willing (or budgeted) to put the money into doing that.

That said, I'm sure there are plenty of hacks that they'll be able to do that'd break the console versions but can be accommodated by PC hardware.

I kinda wonder if they'll officially relax their stance on third party stuff. With only the PC version left, any add-ons would be available to all users. With limited resources to put into implementing new features, it might make sense to simply allow community efforts that already add them.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-02-25 07:36:24
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Anna Ruthven said: »
like they faked it's death to get rid of the PS2 and 360 people.
We'll never know =/
I doubt they'd go as far as to fake its death to drop PS2/360.
But it's undeniable all those things have been handled in a very strange way, with several following and conflicting statements on their side.


My personal opinion on what happened is that the higher floors for some reasons decided they wanted to kinda slowly shut down FFXI.
Stop spending a single penny of resources (aside from serious bugs and issues) in FFXI and let it slowly die as people would eventually stop paying over time, and at that point close the servers.

Matsui and his team probably weren't happy about that, but there was nothing they could do, so they decided to ask for a compromise: "ok we accept your decision, but then please at least grant us the possibility to have a final catch-up ending for the game" (RoV). Their request was granted.

But then something happened, players revolting and probably something else, and that made the higher floors realize that probably their decision wasn't really the best one, so they kinda started to rethink a few details, but for some stuff it was already too late because they were already in the making.
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-02-25 07:47:02
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I never was happy with Matsui's leadership. Game started dying as soon as he took over, starting with SoA which was too much of a change for some. Not entirely fair, I think Tanaka had his hand in SoA but even after, Matsui seemed almost incompetent considering his wanting to drop RMEs and expecting no backlash. I think XI could be revived but the effort isn't worth it to SE.

PS2 should've been dropped years ago and 360 shortly after. I think they would've been if FFXIV 1.0 hadn't flopped. Now FFXIV ARR is a different type of MMO which is why I think comparing the two is pretty dumb. It would be nice if they were to shut it down for a few months and reboot it with touched up graphics, new content, and a raised level cap. Also, while we're dreaming, they could finally add the newer jobs on to relics.
 leo
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By leo 2016-02-25 07:53:51
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I believe the real reason they're dropping the consoles is that:

SONY want to retire the PS2 DNAS service structure.
FFXI is the only PS2 game which uses DNAS and is still functional.
Funny enough PlayOnline viewer was the FIRST piece of PS2 software to ever use DNAS.

I bet Microsoft already have announced (to DEVs under NDA) a XBOX360 online service retirement plan and SE is just following suit.
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By Jetackuu 2016-02-25 07:58:21
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Anna Ruthven said: »
Isn't XI built on a PS2 engine? Won't that still present limitations?
Indeed, hence why the premise of this thread and the entire "PS2 limitations" thing is outright ignorant.
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By Jetackuu 2016-02-25 07:59:55
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Anna Ruthven said: »
PS2 should've been dropped years ago and 360 shortly after.
To what end? I mean the 360 version should never have been made, but that's another story entirely.
 Valefor.Omnys
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By Valefor.Omnys 2016-02-25 08:00:24
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Yeah, XI as it presently stands* will never be free of the ghosts of PS2 limitations but there are some things that not having to accomodate for PS2 client machines will permit. For instance, the PC interface has features that the PS2 does not because it cannot support it.

* It's a pipe dream, one that I'll toke with you on, to think that they'll ever overhaul this old clunker.

Another great example is that PS2 players had problems in Voidwatch.. possibly because the client machines had problems dealing with the phasing. PS2 players would frequently lock up/black screen.

Besieged was the same, the poor little systems didn't have the capability to deal with the barrage of data the server was relaying for 20 minutes or an hour straight.

"XBOX 360 limitations" would have been a thing too, except that the PS2 was the weaker one so caught most the blame. You don't mind the guys that can live 200lbs and 100lbs when there's the dude in the back struggling to drag 75 on a cart.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-02-25 08:01:55
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Anna Ruthven said: »
I never was happy with Matsui's leadership. Game started dying as soon as he took over,
I respect your personal opinion but I don't really agree with that.
Matsui made a lot of dumb choices for sure, but he also made a lot of good ones.
If I have to point my finger against him for something, it would be for making several choices thinking about the short term and not about the long term.
But I think it was more a matter of "if we wait for the ideal conditions, nothing is ever gonna happen. If we go this route instead there will be some positive changes for the game"

Or maybe you could see it as: "imperfect but realistic" vs "perfect and idealistic".
Which is to say: he did what he could with what little resources he had.

Despite all the several flaws and embarassing lack of knowledge for several aspects, I think SoA is possibly the best expansion they ever released for the game, likely created with the smallest amount of time and the lowest budget.
That by itself is quite an achievement to my eyes.
I still consider Delve1 as one of the peaks, possibly THE peak, the game ever achieved in terms of accessibility, multi-layered, difficulty, effort:reward and frankly fun and diversity too.
Despite all its flaws, yes, I still stand by that opinion.

We can all argue about the good and bad things Matsui & team did. The things they changed too much etc, but would the game be still alive as of 25 february 2016 if SoA never came out and the game continued to be what it was in the post Abyssea era?
We can't know for sure but I'm quite confident to say that in my opinion no, game wouldn't likely be still here nowadays.


Quote:
Also, while we're dreaming, they could finally add the newer jobs on to relics.
I don't think that's a problem related to PS2/X360 support or technical issues.
It's just a (stupid) game balance/lore thing and for some reason they deliberately decided to stand by that.
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By Jetackuu 2016-02-25 08:02:04
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The 360 handled the game worse than the PS2 ever did...
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-02-25 08:05:01
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leo said: »
I believe the real reason they're dropping the consoles is that: [cut]
Wouldn't surprise me at all if it was just what you said.
Reality is often simpler than we imagine it to be :p
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By Wordspoken 2016-02-25 08:05:32
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I recall an interview where devs revealed they are still updating ffxi with ps2 dev tools. They needed to get new ones for SoA. Don't have source at hand for it though.
 Asura.Isiolia
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By Asura.Isiolia 2016-02-25 08:11:54
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Wordspoken said: »
I recall an interview where devs revealed they are still updating ffxi with ps2 dev tools. They needed to get new ones for SoA. Don't have source at hand for it though.

I know the Famitsu interview that BG has translated here mentions it.
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By fonewear 2016-02-25 08:13:30
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Plot twist: The servers are...PS2s !
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By Jetackuu 2016-02-25 08:18:31
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Asura.Isiolia said: »
Wordspoken said: »
I recall an interview where devs revealed they are still updating ffxi with ps2 dev tools. They needed to get new ones for SoA. Don't have source at hand for it though.

I know the Famitsu interview that BG has translated here mentions it.

Quote:
Around when did you make these decisions?
Matsui: When we launched the expansion Seekers of Adoulin in 2013, we decided that we would continue with the current Vana'diel and make things as convenient as we can for as long as possible rather than doing any large scale remodeling. However, the management aspects aren't the only problem, but we also have to support game consoles like PS2 and Xbox 360, which means we need to maintain the equipment and development environment for all of that, so finally we made the overall decision to end that support.
Saito: From the players' perspective, a lot of people seem to have thought we should cut PS2 support, but we're in a difficult position because the development for the different hardwares were all integrated. It's not like the Windows version is entirely independent.

What do you mean that it's all integrated?
Matsui: When we designed the development tools, we created an integrated environment so that we could control all of the resources on PS2 development equipment. All of the graphics resources and music were also made relative to the PS2, and those were then transplanted to the Windows version.
Saito: The PS2 environment is at the heart. So even if we remove that support, we're stuck with it. We once thought it would be good if we could specialize on the Windows version, but we weren't really able to pull it off. Since it was originally released as a PS2 title, the PS2 environment was the primary focus. The camera functionality and even event scenes were made on PS2 equipment. But as the equipment is aging, we're not left with much to develop on.

So you have some major physical problems.
Matsui: By the way, we're the only ones left using SCE's DNS server, but they've told us they'll maintain it until FFXI ends. The other day, I had the opportunity to speak with the people in charge of repairs at SCE and they say that many customers are still coming in to get PS2s repaired to play FFXI, so they said those PS2 FFXI users are like their "royal customers." I was happy to hear him say that because I thought it might have been more troublesome.

There's some contradictory statements in this, but it may be due to the translation. In reality the equipment being repaired is more of a cost issue than anything. It'd be nice to virtualize it, but in reality trying to do a bitforbit/timing virtualization of something with that much umph would take a good bit of power, again cost (if it's even currently possible).

But even without that, the fact is that the game is still developed on that equipment, we're limited to it. (If I recall correctly FFX was also made on the same platform/tools, which is an interesting point if accurate).
 Cerberus.Avalon
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By Cerberus.Avalon 2016-02-25 08:34:42
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So far as I know, everyone in my linkshell previously on console has moved over. I really pushed the awareness consistently months ago while actively discussing inexpensive PC options and whatnot with members.
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 Valefor.Omnys
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By Valefor.Omnys 2016-02-25 08:39:52
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Designed for the PS2, and running on PS2 devkits, does not change the fact that the PS2 was the client that suffered the worst. Restricting everyone, for so long, to what the PS2 client could handle held the game back far more than the servers ever did.
 
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By Jetackuu 2016-02-25 08:49:40
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Valefor.Omnys said: »
Designed for the PS2, and running on PS2 devkits, does not change the fact that the PS2 was the client that suffered the worst. Restricting everyone, for so long, to what the PS2 client could handle held the game back far more than the servers ever did.

Here
 
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By 2016-02-25 08:53:15
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By Jetackuu 2016-02-25 09:06:02
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Valefor.Omnys said: »
Designed for the PS2, and running on PS2 devkits, does not change the fact that the PS2 was the client that suffered the worst. Restricting everyone, for so long, to what the PS2 client could handle held the game back far more than the servers ever did.

Here

SE wouldn't download a pizza, Jet.
I would, I'm hungry.
 
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