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Laws And Rules and Regulations...oh my!
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-02 12:24:12
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Corporations would dump more toxic chemicals into the water without the discouragement of penalties
you have obviously never been to ohio or new jersey.
but I digress.
What proof do you offer that a law, any law, has reduced anything, be it the amount of chemicals dumped, or anything else.
Oh god...I bet our river had a two headed fish or something in it at one point.
I watched a river of fire
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-02-02 12:27:06
Water pollution makes me so angry. If I won't get into either of my two dreamjobs it's very likely I'll work on water protection.
Won't somebody think of the fishies?!?
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Forum Moderator
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-02-02 12:41:33
Won't somebody think of the delicious seafood?!? Mmm, I agree.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-02 13:00:05
By Altimaomega 2016-02-02 13:15:11
Such as the law which requires truck drivers to keep a log book regarding the total number of miles driven per day, stops made, and number of hours on duty. That law is made to prevent drivers from exceeding another law (16 hours per day on duty), and helps keep drivers from falling asleep while on the road. but they still fall asleep all the time.
and they keep two sets of books in order to fudge the numbers.
Lot's of people fall asleep at the wheel not just truck drivers.
This should be interesting. King is for a law that diminishes truck drivers rights and freedoms because why?
They drive a tool that causes more harm when it hits something? hypocrisy much?
It is all kinds of wrong for any law to require that a person state where they are at all times and force them to actually stop the job they are doing simply because an extremely small percentage of drivers make mistakes.
As for a log book. That thing is/was a joke, so truck drivers didn't care. But now since new laws have been made truck drivers are required to have online log books that are of coarse made by people that have never drove a big rig in their life.
The best part about these new trucking regulations is that they have forced more truck drivers to say screw it and retire or move on to something else. Which in turn has made our already undermanned trucking fleet severely undermanned and literally makes all the truckers that are left more sleepy and more prone to have accidents since they are forced too work 24/7 because nobody wants to drive truck.
Perhaps we should make some more laws!
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-02 13:15:44
Laws work when honest people seek to make it work.
let me know when you find them...
Water pollution makes me so angry. 
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-02-02 13:18:37
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Corporations would dump more toxic chemicals into the water without the discouragement of penalties
you have obviously never been to ohio or new jersey.
but I digress.
What proof do you offer that a law, any law, has reduced anything, be it the amount of chemicals dumped, or anything else.
Oh god...I bet our river had a two headed fish or something in it at one point.
I watched a river of fire
Was this your visit to De Nang in the 60's?
One could say that ineffective "lawmakers" make ineffective laws. If they made laws with respect to corporations dumping chemicals where the penalty actually affected profit margins then we might see an impact on their behavior. As it stands lawmakers tend to be in the pocket so we can't really expect anything substantial.
Until there is a major change in the methods that are used in being elected to office; the majority of lawmakers will be on a de facto "corporate pay roll".
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-02 13:20:16
Lot's of people fall asleep at the wheel not just truck drivers.
excellent example. laws never have worked and they never will.
so what are we doing about it?
driverless trucks.
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collision avoidance systems like forward collision warning, autobrake, lane departure warning, lane departure prevention, adaptive headlights and blind spot detection....
actually addressing the problem of people falling asleep at the wheel instead of more laws which prevent nothing.
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Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-02-02 13:21:31
I said it at least 15 times before but selfdriving cars can't get to the public fast enough!!
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-02 13:23:04
Was this your visit to De Nang in the 60's?
I grew up near the cuyahoga river which caught fire several times.
When I was 14 I worked on the clean up. @ CVNP
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By Altimaomega 2016-02-02 13:27:40
Lot's of people fall asleep at the wheel not just truck drivers.
excellent example. laws never have worked and they never will.
so what are we doing about it?
driverless trucks.
YouTube Video Placeholder
collision avoidance systems like forward collision warning, autobrake, lane departure warning, lane departure prevention, adaptive headlights and blind spot detection....
actually addressing the problem of people falling asleep at the wheel instead of more laws which prevent nothing.
The trucking industry is all about the money. Driver-less trucks are a pipe dream because they will cost so much to build.
Hell, they can barely figure out how to get driver-less cars to work. I can't imagine the problems they would run into when trying to make a driver-less Big Rig.
Lets say they do. Say goodbye to how many million jobs in our already jobless economy! YAY!
By Jetackuu 2016-02-02 13:30:02
4
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4 pansy
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By Jetackuu 2016-02-02 13:30:30
Lets say they do. Say goodbye to how many million jobs in our already jobless economy! YAY! If it can be automated, it should be. It's a good thing we didn't hold back other progress because it would cost jobs.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-02 13:32:52
Say goodbye to how many million jobs in our already jobless economy! YAY!
/waves bye bye
so long bank tellers.
so long travel agents.
goodbye to all our old friends and neighbors who were quietly replaced with a kiosk when we weren't looking...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-02 13:41:58
let me know when you find them... Lot's of people fall asleep at the wheel not just truck drivers.
This should be interesting. King is for a law that diminishes truck drivers rights and freedoms because why?
They drive a tool that causes more harm when it hits something? hypocrisy much?
It is all kinds of wrong for any law to require that a person state where they are at all times and force them to actually stop the job they are doing simply because an extremely small percentage of drivers make mistakes.
As for a log book. That thing is/was a joke, so truck drivers didn't care. But now since new laws have been made truck drivers are required to have online log books that are of coarse made by people that have never drove a big rig in their life.
The best part about these new trucking regulations is that they have forced more truck drivers to say screw it and retire or move on to something else. Which in turn has made our already undermanned trucking fleet severely undermanned and literally makes all the truckers that are left more sleepy and more prone to have accidents since they are forced too work 24/7 because nobody wants to drive truck.
Perhaps we should make some more laws! It's not diminishing truck driver's rights and/or freedoms, it's promoting safety for all.
That law also states that a driver cannot work past 80 hours per week. It's to force the drivers to actually take a break instead of binge driving their entire lives. But that's besides the point.
I believe that an alive driver is better than a dead one, don't you?
By Altimaomega 2016-02-02 13:50:41
It's not diminishing truck driver's rights and/or freedoms, it's promoting safety for all.
Your"re not listening to what I am saying. Gun Laws are promoting safety for all as well.
That law also states that a driver cannot work past 80 hours per week. What are all the other rules and regulations for then? Sure 80hr week law, few if any truck driver has a problem with that. It is all the extras that are forcing them out of the industry.
I believe that an alive driver is better than a dead one, don't you? Should I say no just to be difficult? I'm at a lose why this is even a point..
It's to force the drivers to actually take a break instead of binge driving their entire lives. But that's besides the point. Actually it isn't. The new regs actually force drivers to work longer and make less money... So they are forced to driver truck for their entire lives..
By Altimaomega 2016-02-02 13:52:54
If it can be automated, it should be. It's a good thing we didn't hold back other progress because it would cost jobs.
That is a good point. But in the past progress created more jobs than it killed. Since we have entered the new century, progress is now killing more jobs than it creates.
Can we not find a middle ground or are things not allowed to changeprogress?
Ninja edited my bad.
By Jetackuu 2016-02-02 13:54:18
If it can be automated, it should be. It's a good thing we didn't hold back other progress because it would cost jobs.
That is a good point. But in the past progress created more jobs than it killed. Since we have entered the new century, progress is now killing more jobs than it creates. Through the course of history progress has vastly destroyed the need for more people to be in the work force, not just in this century.
It's going to continue, and we'll eventually have to find a solution to the issues that creates. (We're already seeing some of the effects of it).
Not to even mention the fact that our populations are rising due to advances in medicine.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-02 14:05:15
I just went over this with you already!
Your"re not listening to what I am saying. Gun Laws are promoting safety for all as well. What are all the other rules and regulations for then? Sure 80hr week law, few if any truck driver has a problem with that. It is all the extras that are forcing them out of the industry. Should I say no just to be difficult? I'm at a lose why this is even a point.. Actually it isn't. The new regs actually force drivers to work longer and make less money... So they are forced to driver truck for their entire lives.. One thing, this law limits the number of hours per week, not increases it. This is also an old law, I don't really know what life was like prior to the law being made.
Also, as I stated before, I do not know much about the trucking industry, at least not as well enough to comment deeply on it. I know of this law, and that's pretty much it.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-02-02 14:08:13
I don't really understand the basis of this thread. Laws and regulations compel people to act in ways that are presumably less disruptive or destructive to themselves or others (ideally). Free will still allows for lawlessness but that's why we have the code and processes for punishment.
Is the issue that laws cannot override free will enabling total compliance?
Some laws are pretty intuitive (don't kill, steal. Duh.) so yeah those laws function more for punishment. Others function more as guidelines, like someone mentioned earlier, because most people (and society in general) need the order that comes from rules.
I don't get the point of judging the efficacy of law based on the exception that a small portion of the population may decide to defy them.
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By Altimaomega 2016-02-02 14:15:28
Altimaomega said: »
Your"re
I just went over this with you already!
I guess nobody is understanding jokes today.
One thing, this law limits the number of hours worked per week, not increases it.
An 80 hour work week for a trucker is not the same as an 80 hour work week for you.
I have a lot of family and friends that are truckers and this has negatively effected them all. But nobody cares because..
I do not know much about the trucking industry, at least not as well enough to comment deeply on it. I know of this law, and that's pretty much it. and don't even understand it.
By Altimaomega 2016-02-02 14:16:32
I don't really understand the basis of this thread.
Zero people are surprised by this fact.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-02 14:24:17
You are correct Altima, I don't understand the law fully, nor do I have members of my family in the trucking industry..
You stated that this law is negative, please tell us what is negative about this law. Not about the regulations as a whole though, but this law in specific.
We all know that this is coming from a secondary source, since you yourself are not a truck driver and have just as limited knowledge as the next person.
Valefor.Omnys
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By Valefor.Omnys 2016-02-02 14:34:31
and that's revenge. pure and simple. What gives someone the right to kill someone else? I read a story once that god had these words etched with lightning into stone....
Thou Shall Not Kill
and yet for reasons that escapes my understanding we seem to have added several exclusions for ourselves..
unless war is declared
or they killed someone first
or their crime is shocking and horrible
self defense
crime of passion
temporary insanity
they are so rich they don't know right from wrong (*Affluenza teen again)
You call it revenge, I'd call it justice. I honestly believe death sentences for willfully causing someone else's death is the only proper response (outside of self-defense/defense of someone else).
The same book, the same testament also says "an eye for an eye" and God protects his children as they go to war.
I cannot fathom why people would want a society that doesn't consider death a reasonable penalty for murder without justification and especially mass murders.
Our legal system would be much better if it operated, in all things, on an eye-for-an-eye policy. From violent crime to business crime. Companies making hundreds of millions of dollars based on fraud and getting fined millions.
By Jetackuu 2016-02-02 14:35:38
I honestly believe death sentences for willfully causing someone else's death is the only proper response (outside of self-defense/defense of someone else). Then you are a rather sick and twisted individual.
Our legal system would be much better if it operated, in all things, on an eye-for-an-eye policy.
No, it wouldn't.
The same book, the same testament also says "an eye for an eye" and God protects his children as they go to war.
That really explains where you get your demented "morals" from.
I cannot fathom why people would want a society that doesn't consider death a reasonable penalty for murder without justification and especially mass murders.
Because we're not all followers of a bronze-age wet dream?
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By Bahamut.Seekerstar 2016-02-02 14:39:55
Eye for an eye only perpetuates a senseless Spiral of "getting back" at people. Think about it. Even should you balance yourself against the one who wronged you, you will have then wronged another, innocent person.
By Altimaomega 2016-02-02 14:41:12
You are correct Altima, I don't understand the law fully, nor do I have members of my family in the trucking industry..
You stated that this law is negative, please tell us what is negative about this law. Not about the regulations as a whole though, but this law in specific.
We all know that this is coming from a secondary source, since you yourself are not a truck driver and have just as limited knowledge as the next person.
I actually was 12yrs ago, I still have my CDL and the laws/regs have changed so much since then it is crazy. I still drive from time to time, but I can skirt the rules so to say since I am a farmer.
You also have to remember that these laws/regs affect all kinds of truck drivers. Not all of them travel the country.
Which is why I posed the question. I'd almost believe that if you have ever shown the desire to have a conversation. Nice insult btw. smh
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-02-02 14:42:25
The fact that many punishments need to be changed or reevaluated based on the entity of the crime is doubtless. But a straight eye4eye is pretty stupid.
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Valefor.Omnys
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By Valefor.Omnys 2016-02-02 14:48:02
The same book, the same testament also says "an eye for an eye" and God protects his children as they go to war.
That really explains where you get your demented "morals" from.
I cannot fathom why people would want a society that doesn't consider death a reasonable penalty for murder without justification and especially mass murders.
Because we're not all followers of a bronze-age wet dream?
My point was that the bible says thou shalt not kill and yet God abides killing when it is necessary, or seem to. So clearly, even by God's standards, there is a time for killing.
It's ludicrous to punish group murderers by providing them food/housing/psychological help for the rest of their lives OR, laughably, letting them go. That's really teaching them!
Edit: There is no *teaching them*. They deserve exactly the same cruelty they gave.
you're probably breaking the law right now
In the now locked gun thread I was trying to have a discussion about laws and their impact... So why not make it it's own thread and carry it over here!
"These people have made many rules that the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule." Sitting Bull
“Behold, the Spring has come; the earth has received the embraces of the sun and we shall soon see the results of that love!
Every seed is awakened and so has all animal life. It is through this mysterious power that we too have our being, and we therefore yield to our neighbors, even our animal neighbors, the same right as ourselves, to inhabit this land.
Yet, hear me, people, we have now to deal with another race – small and feeble when our fathers first met them but now great and overbearing. Strangely enough they have a mind to till the soil and the love of possession is a disease with them. These people have made many rules that the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.
They claim this mother of ours, the earth, for their own and fence their neighbors away; they deface her with their buildings and their refuse. The nation is like a spring freshet that overruns its banks and destroys all that are in its path.
We cannot dwell side by side. Only seven years ago we made a treaty by which we were assured that the buffalo country should be left to us forever. Now they threaten to take that away from us. My brothers, shall we submit or shall we say to them: 'First kill me before you take possession of my land”
― Sitting Bull
So let's get into it. Whether it's gun laws or speed limits, every day we create more laws that few follow.... and whether or not you "get away with" breaking laws is typically decided by how much money you have. (*See Affluenza Teen)
What good are laws that regulate the caliber of a bullet or the size of a magazine when those that have no respect for laws are breaking one of the most fundamental and harshly punished laws already, MURDER. Who do we imagine would abide by these additional laws we consider writing?
What law ever stopped a crime from happening or undid the horror of it's impact?
Do laws and rules make you feel safe? If laws don't stop a crime from happening what is their purpose? Perhaps they exist only to create a recourse for revenge against those that break them, are unlucky enough to get caught and then can't afford to buy their way out of trouble.
tl;dr locks only keep people without tools out...justice is the whim of a judge...and other mad ramblings of a deranged lunatic.
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