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Do you think America has a war on Christmas?
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-06-16 09:09:52
The phrase "separation of church and state" itself does not appear in the United States Constitution. The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-06-16 09:11:28
The phrase "separation of church and state" itself does not appear in the United States Constitution. The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
pay close attention to the bolded area
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-06-16 09:12:45
Maybe if you payed more attention to the posts you respond to. I never said practice of any religion should be prohibited.
Valefor.Rawry
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By Valefor.Rawry 2016-06-16 09:14:24
Maybe if you payed more attention to the posts you respond to. I never said practice of any religion should be prohibited. Well, aside for those who include blood sacrifices like aztech religion lol.
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-06-16 09:16:24
Religion cannot dictate laws and policies. No matter how much you wish it could, this is how it is and how it damn should.
This is why there are equal rights for homosexuals for example.
It was government policy that recognizes all religions holy days being celebrated in the United States of America.
I never said i wanted to impose a law of a religion on anyone that was out of your own words.
I said we can openly practice
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2016-06-16 09:16:52
I would not classify my nations founding fathers as idiots they wrote the Constitution as clear as possible because in the Old world they were persecuted from doing such things and made sure to express this as clear as possible in the Constitution. If they wanted to prohibit people from expressing religion openly they would of wrote in From
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
This means the state is not allowed to endorse any religion. It must be fair and equal to all. Anything it gives to one religion it must give to all. No one says a person of a particular faith cannot endorse a religion, say a prayer or whatever their faith says to do, but someone acting in a position of the government should not.
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Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-06-16 09:18:39
I said we can openly practice Why are you debating me if you don't disagree with me?
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-06-16 09:29:00
quote the whole thing
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »I would not classify my nations founding fathers as idiots they wrote the Constitution as clear as possible because in the Old world they were persecuted from doing such things and made sure to express this as clear as possible in the Constitution. If they wanted to prohibit people from expressing religion openly they would of wrote in From
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion", or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ( i added the bolded part which is the complete version )
This means the state is not allowed to endorse any religion. It must be fair and equal to all. Anything it gives to one religion it must give to all. No one says a person of a particular faith cannot endorse a religion, say a prayer or whatever their faith says to do, but someone acting in a position of the government should not.
The United States government recognizes all religions holy days.
I'm not forcing anyone to favor or accept any religion, all i am saying is Representatives and presidents do swear there oaths with the Bible and other holy books and a few did not.
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-06-16 09:31:13
quote the whole thing
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof You're still not disagreeing with me.
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-06-16 09:39:47
Religion cannot dictate laws and policies. No matter how much you wish it could, this is how it is and how it damn should.
This is why there are equal rights for homosexuals for example.
This was where i disagreed with you about law and policy
It is the United States of Americas governments POLICY to recognize all religious holy days which is government approved.
the definition of policy is
pol·i·cy1
ˈpäləsē/Submit
noun
a course or principle of action adopted or proposed by a government, party, business, or individual.
"the administration's controversial economic policies"
synonyms: plans, strategy, stratagem, approach, code, system, guidelines, theory; More
archaic
prudent or expedient conduct or action.
"a course of policy and wisdom"
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-06-16 09:42:23
This was where i disagreed with you about law and policy
It is the United States of Americas governments POLICY to recognize all religious holy days which is government approved. No..you don't? Because I didn't say otherwise?
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-16 09:56:47
Morals, virtues, etc. are derived from different places. Some get them from religion, some get them from other philosophies. You have people saying that religious values cannot be legislated, but that is false. "Separation of church and state" has more to do with preventing religious organizations from overtaking government than anything. I don't give a crap if you got your belief that murder is bad from "Thou shalt not kill" or from common sense, so long as you make a case for why legislating against murder is best for society.
The problem with people saying "cuz the Bible says so" when trying to enforce religious values legislatively isn't the constitutionality of it, it's the fact that it's a really worthless argument in the melting pot of religious and non-religious views that is the United States. You need to make a secular case for your argument regardless of where the initial ideas were derived.
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-06-16 09:57:43
Religion cannot dictate laws and policies. No matter how much you wish it could, this is how it is and how it damn should.
This is why there are equal rights for homosexuals for example.
This was where i disagreed with you about law and policy
It is the United States of Americas governments POLICY to recognize all religious holy days which is government approved.
I'm trying to explain to you that I don't personally wish for any religion to make laws or policy. You think i want that but your wrong about me. Because that's for government to do and they do recognize by federal code religious holy days to be openly practiced.
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-06-16 10:02:11
I'm trying to explain to you that I don't personally wish for any religion to make laws or policy. You think i want that but your wrong about me. Because that's for government to do and they do recognize by federal code religious holy days to be openly practiced. Then why are you quoting that post? And why did you change the point you're trying to make in response to me?
I'm starting more and more to lean on the side of you being a troll. Otherwise noticing you weren't disagreeing with me you would have stopped there, instead you insist on keeping us at opposites. So it's either that or you focus so much on the name of the poster that you ignore the content.
By Seha 2016-06-16 10:03:40
And I'm not sure why you're telling me the obvious lol. Are you confused on my stance perchance?
Post deleted by User. Comment: If you blocked him why respond to him.
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-06-16 10:11:54
I'm trying to explain to you that I don't personally wish for any religion to make laws or policy. You think i want that but your wrong about me. Because that's for government to do and they do recognize by federal code religious holy days to be openly practiced. Then why are you quoting that post? And why did you change the point you're trying to make in response to me?
I'm starting more and more to lean on the side of you being a troll. Otherwise noticing you weren't disagreeing with me you would have stopped there, instead you insist on keeping us at opposites. So it's either that or you focus so much on the name of the poster that you ignore the content.
You misunderstood me is what I am saying I understand English is not your native language and I am not faulting you for that. Its Also why I quoted you. I did not change the point, all I said from what I quoted you saying what I wanted, was in fact a wrong interpretation of me and my beliefs or what I want.
I never once said I wanted my religion to write laws and policies and nor do i or would i.
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2016-06-16 10:12:44
Im not trolling you i am serious.
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-06-16 10:14:11
You argued with me on the previous page about me saying the state should be laic(which was not directed at anyone before you replied). Yet on this page you agree with me.
Forum Moderator
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By Anna Ruthven 2016-06-16 10:18:19
I see very little point in debating this now; when you are banned you are banned. The only catching up you need is here.
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The Syrian Conflict Won't Steal My Christmas
Global Voices
Quote: This post is part of a special series of articles by blogger and activist Marcell Shehwaro, describing the realities of life in Syria during the ongoing armed conflict between forces loyal to the current regime, and those seeking to oust it.
Quote: Christmas used to have a special meaning in my family, full of spiritual and familial rituals. As children, my sister Leila and I used to take turns throughout the night watching out for Santa Claus, waiting to catch him “in the act”. I cannot remember clearly when we realized it was a trick played by our parents, or when we found all our letters to him, written over the years, safely stashed away by our parents. Even after growing up and realizing that Santa did not exist, my mother insisted that exchanging the gifts under the tree remain an annual ritual. A ritual that stopped, obviously, after she was gone.
At the beginning of December, she used to ask each of us what we needed, what we wished for, and she made sure that each of us bought gifts for the others. We would spend Christmas morning exchanging gifts and letters, after which I would spend hours upon hours getting ready. The hairdo, the makeup, the new clothes. I kept on buying new clothes—“Christmas clothes”—every year until I was 28. I used to look very colorful at Christmas. My hair would be, contrary to the norm, well styled. I used to practice using different colors on my eyelids. I would even sometimes go all out and draw a butterfly tattoo on my shoulder—“It’s Christmas!” I would then go to mass, followed by a party where Santa would show up and give us balloons and hats, and we would dance to “Jingle Bells”.
When my father died many Christmas rituals disappeared from our household. The tree disappeared, for instance, but my mother retained the rituals of love and gift-giving, as well as her insistence every year that we go out to celebrate with our friends and leave her by herself. Today I regret every time I left her alone, as a teenager, to go out to celebrate with friends.
After my sister’s marriage and birth of her first child, Christmas regained its familial flair and my mother regained her smile. The ritual of decorating the tree was revived and she celebrated with the grandchildren. The number of letters to Santa increased and we all got creative in inventing new scenarios for Santa to show up and distribute the gifts.
Then the revolution started.
The first Christmas is as ordinary as possible. I try to ignore the imminent threat and have an ordinary family Christmas, trying to ease my mother’s fears and wishes for me to stay safe.
The following year it is impossible to ignore all that. My last day in our house is New Year’s. Security forces are already on my trail because of what I was writing, and what some people—people with whom I used to spend Christmas, signing, dancing and celebrating—were writing to the security forces about me.
That day was my last day on the western side of Aleppo which, to this day, remains under Assad’s control, making it impossible for me to go there. I crossed the border into Turkey and re-entered from the liberated side of the city. To make the crossing between the two territories I had to use a fake identity and disguise myself with a head scarf. And to evade the regime's snipers targeting crossers, we had to race between the crossing’s two points. Those were the most dangerous five minutes ever. Crossing, without any goal worthy of this sacrifice except the “memory of the New Year”. Christmas as an act of resistance—I wasn’t going to let them steal my Christmas.
I crossed safely to the other side: a “Christmas miracle”, maybe. And I celebrated Christmas and New Year’s with the friends who loved me so much they took the risk of celebrating with me. I then returned to the liberated part of Aleppo, making that my last visit to my house, to those streets and to Christmas as I knew it.
At the same time that year another miracle happens in my city: my best friend survives a shelling at a new year’s party. I’m still grateful for that. The most beautiful miracle of my life.
The following year finds ISIS on my tail. It is very dangerous for me, as a Christian, to be in areas where they roam freely, kidnapping revolutionaries, first the Muslims among them. But despite the danger I insist on putting up a Christmas tree at my house. During wartime, there is no place you can easily buy a Christmas tree. I had to buy it in Turkey, at a price that I could ill afford then. I wrapped its various parts in clothing and smuggled it all the way to Aleppo. I hid the decorations inside boxes of tissues. Two hours on the road during which I feigned confidence at every checkpoint so that my clothes wouldn’t be not searched and my smuggled tree wouldn’t be exposed.
At an ISIS checkpoint at the city’s entrance a guard asks: “Who is this suitcase for?”
It’s mine. I make a move to open it but the driver answers: “It’s for the woman.”
The guard loses interest in searching it, and I pass safely into Aleppo. Another miracle? I don’t know.
I gather friends around me. Most of them are decorating a Christmas tree for the first time and even though the ritual has no religious meaning for them, they came and stayed around me to share my joy.
Jawad, the weirdest among them, says cheerfully: “Christian feasts are really nice.” And we all laugh.
Ali, my friend in the Free Syrian Army, approaches carrying a gift he wants me to put under the tree. I take it—I’m stunned with terror. A very small assassination pistol. He says: “It’s nothing. Is case they come for you,”—he means ISIS – “don’t let them get you alive.”
The thought is terrifying. It’s terrifying that someone’s love for you suggests your suicide. He realizes that I cannot kill, so he didn’t even try to convince me to defend myself. The pistol was eventually stolen, along with the laptop and other items in the house, and we never needed to use it. A miracle, again.
Today that tree lies in a house in the neighbourhood of Al Sukkari; a house its owner sealed up with bricks before fleeing to we don’t know where.
Maybe this is what Christmas is all about.
To be naïve among the people you love, defying death and loneliness.
To ignore the fact that Santa Claus is really your parents.
To brave the possibility of sniper fire so you can spend New Year’s Eve with friends.
To smuggle a Christmas tree through ISIS checkpoints.
To set goals for the New Year, knowing you cannot achieve them.
To pray from the heart that the doors do not close in the faces of the refugees from your country like they were closed in the faces of Mary and Joseph on Christmas Eve.
To try and find a miraculous way to penetrate an extremely painful memory and paint some love into it.
Maybe this is what Christmas is all about. To be naïve enough to write a letter wishing for “freedom”.
Creative Commons License
A small portrait of مرسيل شحوارو
Written by
مرسيل شحوارو
Translated by
Lara AlMalakeh This woman's Christmas I can understand.
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