Are All Terrorists Muslims? It’s Not Even Close

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Are All Terrorists Muslims? It’s Not Even Close
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 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 11:00:15
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I'm not here to convert anyone. My posts were simply arguments presenting a possible answer to certain questions. Do I know that they are right? Nope. However, if there can be one potentially rational answer for a question, perhaps there are more. Don't believe anything I've said. Ask the question and try and figure it out yourself. If the result is you are an atheist, then at least that is your own decision. If it is that you believe, then that is your own decision. The result being, you live your own life and not a life dictated by someone elses beliefs.
 
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 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 11:05:11
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
Let's say, hypothetically, there is a being that exists in dimensions higher than we can perceive. We know those dimensions are there, our eyes are just not capable of perceiving them.

No, there is no proof of any other dimensions, only wild theories. The closest thing to a 4th dimension would be time.

yes, well, there is no proof of macro-evolution, but it makes the most sense currently. There is no proof of black holes, but they make the most sense, currently. There is no proof that I am not the only self-aware being in a computer simulated environment (Insert self-awareness in ffxi and people there will not know they are a program). BUT, not being a program and not being the only self-aware individual, makes the most sense. Physicist believe there are up to 10 dimensions. Why? Do your own research, it makes the most sense. If any self-awareness exists outside the 4th one, then it isn't bound by time. Considering self-awareness exists in the first 4, I don't see why all of a sudden we think it must stop because we stop being able to observe it with our own tools.

If the questions are asked. "Does conciousness inhabit the first dimension?" The answer is "yes". The second? Yes. The third? Yes. The fourth. Yes. The fifth? Why the hell do we think it automatically stops! On what grounds?! It was in every one of them up until 4, why would it not be in 5? Is there a reason, other than, "Well, I can't see it." Ya think? You are a 3 dimensional being. Why would you see it?
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By charlo999 2015-01-16 11:06:03
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
charlo999 said: »
was quoting from the old and new testaments not society.
Who wrote the Old and New Testaments, btw? Was it God, or was it some human?

charlo999 said: »
No ones telling you to follow them apart from the man made religious groups trying to use scripture for there own agendas.
Let's be clear on this:

EVERY SINGLE RELIGION IN EXISTENCE IS MAN MADE!

There is no religion ever that was not man made.

How can you tell me to follow religion, but not those "man made ones" when they are all man made?

charlo999 said: »
The teachings are for the readers benefit. Take it or leave it though that is free will. Don't mix up human desires with the scriptures though.
Don't use religion as a crutch for making decisions then.

Um well the Old Testament was written in parts by the word of god. The rest is the history of Jews.
The new testament/gospels are written about the life of the son of god.
Don't understand what your not getting here.
If you believe they are a hoax and lies, then just say as much and move on. To say you don't understand people's beliefs based on your opinion is ignorant.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-16 11:06:45
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If said God exists, no human knows its will. God could be aliens, an entity that exists simply to create, an absentee body, a group of scientists in a lab on another plane of existence or a cadre of busybodies. You're simply transposing your own ideas onto a supernatural entity for validation hence the million different interpretation of holy books, creation myths and religions.

All believers have are books tainted by age, tampering and politics to guide their path and ultimately that relies on faith that all the age, tampering, translation errors, politics and interpretation is being guided by a divine hand. Or maybe it's just religious leaders and politicians (monarchs) looking to consolidate power.

For example, we frequently do translations of JP to NA on basic FFXI/XIV related stuff and that results in some hilariously bad translation / lost context / translator inserts.
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 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 11:16:09
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
If said God exists, no human knows its will. You're simply transposing your own ideas onto a supernatural entity for validation hence the million different interpretation of holy books.

All believers have are books tainted by age, tampering and politics to guide their path and ultimately that relies on faith that all the age, tampering, translation errors, politics and interpretation is being guided by a divine hand.

For example, we frequently do translations of JP to NA on basic FFXI/XIV related stuff and that results in some hilariously bad translation / lost context / translator inserts.

I completely agree with this. It boils down to, if God exists, is he personal or not? If he isn't then we have no way of ever knowing anything about him. If he is, then it wouldn't be hard to figure out his nature. In fact, if I was a personal God, and I had people writing all kinds of crazy things about me (See Old Testament), at some point I would probably get annoyed with it and send someone down there to set the record straight. Since my name is Joshua, his name would be Joshua Jr. and since I sent him to the middle east, it would translate from Joshua to Jesus. :)

Am I saying this is exactly what happened and everyone should believe me? Nope. Is it not a potential possibility though? The church put our Bible together, not God. The old testament was full of acts of a God that doesn't add up to how he is presented in the New Testament. Since God is timeless, he cant change, so only one of them is right. Again, I'm not trying to convince anyone I'm right. It is simply an option that could possibly describe discrepancies that are present. Maybe it is right, maybe it is wrong. The fact that one answer could possibly be given, implies there may be a real answer somewhere.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 11:16:34
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charlo999 said: »
Um well the Old Testament was written in parts by the word of god. The rest is the history of Jews.
Let me ask you this then: Where is the proof that the Old Testament, as written in parts by the word of God, was actually said these things? How can we verify it? Blind faith is not proof btw, neither are youtube videos.

charlo999 said: »
The new testament/gospels are written about the life of the son of god.
While Jesus (the man) has been proven to exist, Jesus (the son of God) has not. Taking one's word without evidence is not evidence on itself.

The point is, every single Holy Book is written by the hands of humans, using human imagination. Can you prove otherwise? Remember, you cannot use the Holy Book as proof that God wrote this, as that statement contradicts itself (how can a book write itself as it tries to exist?).

charlo999 said: »
Don't understand what your not getting here.
A crutch in this case means an excuse for one's actions. I'm assuming that's what you meant, as your English isn't exactly understandable.

charlo999 said: »
If you believe they are a hoax and lies, then just say as much and move on. To say you don't understand people's beliefs based on your opinion is ignorant.
I never said that they are hoaxes or lies. I'm just pointing out the obvious contradictions to blind faith that you put in store so much. It's not ignorance to question something that doesn't make sense, that's actually proof of intelligence. Ignorance is to believe in something without question because somebody else told you to do so.
 
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 11:24:26
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
If the questions are asked. "Does conciousness inhabit the first dimension?" The answer is "yes". The second? Yes. The third? Yes. The fourth. Yes. The fifth? Why the hell do we think it automatically stops! On what grounds?! It was in every one of them up until 4, why would it not be in 5? Is there a reason, other than, "Well, I can't see it." Ya think? You are a 3 dimensional being. Why would you see it?

So basically, your god is a potato since it can exist in dimensions you can't see. Got it.
You need LSDs to see beyond the 3rd dimension...
 
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By 2015-01-16 11:24:52
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By charlo999 2015-01-16 11:29:31
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Are you seriously asking me to Prove to you that god exists and verify the bibles?
To demand proof of something that requires faith is a ridicules statement.
Can you prove the bibles are not what they say they are?
My point is
Good morals are in the bibles as core teachings.
Whether you believe in god/that god or not is irrelevant.
My opinion is that going by the basic teachings of essentially, being a good person/being the best person you can be, is, I believe, the best route you can take in life. For your own happiness.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-16 11:32:37
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What good morals are in the Bible as core teachings that you can't find anywhere else?
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By charlo999 2015-01-16 11:38:31
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Where did I say you cant find them anywhere else?
You can.
Who knows what morals people had 5000 years ago?
The bibles has helped spread this in those times though, as it does with some people today.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-16 11:55:07
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If you don't believe the Bible to be a divine book, it becomes a historical record into the insight of people long dead with as much moral advice as superstitious nonsense that should be rightfully laughed as sectarian hullabaloo. And you have to sift to get to the wisdom. Or just crib Proverbs which is basically a record of wisdom from civilizations in the region at their respective times.

God comes off as petty, wrathful, abusive, tyrannical, sexist and every other sort of ill human behavior fit for the worst of our lot in the OT and having to read about why slavery at any point in time was sanctioned by God is just insulting. Slavery will exist so long as humans are human but God was chill with this? Ok.

Jesus is the reboot but still faces the same problems in that you're commanded to believe or face stiff consequences. The sects that have written this off or tried to reinvent Jesus' sacrifice for our sin as being an act of pure compassion and that no punishment exists bstill find themselves rooted in the OT story of two peeps in a garden with a fruit God said not to eat that got eaten that becomes the lynchpin of the whole story.
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 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2015-01-16 12:05:23
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charlo999 said: »
Where did I say you cant find them anywhere else?
You can.
Who knows what morals people had 5000 years ago?
The bibles has helped spread this in those times though, as it does with some people today.
It's merely a best of that gathers both common sense and the favourite camp fire stories from back then.

That's literally it.

I wonder what will be Star Wars's impact in two thousands years.
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By charlo999 2015-01-16 12:07:43
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If you believe that
being faithful to your wife
not being a lier
not stealing
not murdering people
not lusting after others wives or possessions
respect your father and mother
Loving each other
and treating one another as you would like to be treated.
is a waste of time, superstitious nonsense and are not good values that's up to you.
I believe they are a good teaching.

Also in regards of adam and eve and original sin.
That one is made up by religion.
We are not to suffer for our fathers sins or our children's sins but that of our own. Its clearly written.
Adam wasn't punished by god with death. It doesn't say that.
He was stating that death was the natural progression from eating from the tree of good and evil knowledge.
Your also looking at gods wrath, etc from a human perspective. Who knows what's on the other side. Killing bad people may have saved the good ones and god knowing about life after death may have just had them reborn to start afresh, not going through the pains of life themselves of doing evil deeds.
Who knows.

Like a father trying to teach his son the right path. Sometimes the son will think he knows best. But he hasn't the knowledge of the father and things that seem bad from the sons point of view, is, in fact there to aid him, lovingly.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 12:18:59
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
If you don't believe the Bible to be a divine book, it becomes a historical record into the insight of people long dead with as much moral advice as superstitious nonsense that should be rightfully laughed as sectarian hullabaloo. And you have to sift to get to the wisdom. Or just crib Proverbs which is basically a record of wisdom from civilizations in the region at their respective times.

God comes off as petty, wrathful, abusive, tyrannical, sexist and every other sort of ill human behavior fit for the worst of our lot in the OT and having to read about why slavery at any point in time was sanctioned by God is just insulting. Slavery will exist so long as humans are human but God was chill with this? Ok.

Jesus is the reboot but still faces the same problems in that you're commanded to believe or face stiff consequences. The sects that have written this off or tried to reinvent Jesus' sacrifice for our sin as being an act of pure compassion and that no punishment exists bstill find themselves rooted in the OT story of two peeps in a garden with a fruit God said not to eat that got eaten that becomes the lynchpin of the whole story.

Ok, see, this is what I do have an issue with. People don't believe in God because in the Old Testament he is an *** and who wants to worship an ***, right? But you guys fall into a paradox with this. You don't believe in God because he is an ***, so you reject the book as being Holy, even though, the book you reject as being anymore than fairy tales, is the same book that initially convinced you not to believe in God. This is absolutely illogical and paradoxical. You can't reject a book as being BS writing from a bunch of old people but chose not to believe in God because you don't like the way he is in that same book.
 
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 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 12:26:04
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charlo999 said: »
If you believe that
being faithful to your wife
not being a lier
not stealing
not murdering people
not lusting after others wives or possessions
respect your father and mother
Loving each other
and treating one another as you would like to be treated.
is a waste of time, superstitious nonsense and are not good values that's up to you.
I believe they are a good teaching.

Also in regards of adam and eve and original sin.
That one is made up by religion.
We are not to suffer for our fathers sins or our children's sins but that of our own. Its clearly written.
Adam wasn't punished by god with death. It doesn't say that.
He was stating that death was the natural progression from eating from the tree of good and evil knowledge.
Your also looking at gods wrath, etc from a human perspective. Who knows what's on the other side. Killing bad people may have saved the good ones and god knowing about life after death may have just had them reborn to start afresh, not going through the pains of life themselves of doing evil deeds.
Who knows.

I think what Charlo is trying to get at is an objective morality. A morality that we all know exists. An objective right or wrong. Sure, there are subjective moralities as well, but I think it would be hard to argue that there are universal , objective moralities that exist, i.e. Dont rape children.

Some argue that our sense of morality is just a construct that we created as the social contract. The we have selfish genes (See Richard Dawkins). However, this breaks down when you try and explain why we feel the need to help someone in danger, even if that person is our enemy. If you see your enemy drowning in a lake, there is something in us that says to save him. Even though that is completely against any of our genetic self-preservation instincts.

You can't argue that morals aren't real without also admitting child rape or murder is simply a taboo we shouldnt do. Lions don't murder gazelles, Sharks don't rape their mates, the animal kingdom shows no signs of the ability to distinguish right from wrong. We can, and since what is "right" doesn't always equate to what evolution would have us do, evolution and simply genetics can't account for alot of our actions that go to the contrary.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 12:32:27
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
If you don't believe the Bible to be a divine book, it becomes a historical record into the insight of people long dead with as much moral advice as superstitious nonsense that should be rightfully laughed as sectarian hullabaloo. And you have to sift to get to the wisdom. Or just crib Proverbs which is basically a record of wisdom from civilizations in the region at their respective times.

God comes off as petty, wrathful, abusive, tyrannical, sexist and every other sort of ill human behavior fit for the worst of our lot in the OT and having to read about why slavery at any point in time was sanctioned by God is just insulting. Slavery will exist so long as humans are human but God was chill with this? Ok.

Jesus is the reboot but still faces the same problems in that you're commanded to believe or face stiff consequences. The sects that have written this off or tried to reinvent Jesus' sacrifice for our sin as being an act of pure compassion and that no punishment exists bstill find themselves rooted in the OT story of two peeps in a garden with a fruit God said not to eat that got eaten that becomes the lynchpin of the whole story.

Ok, see, this is what I do have an issue with. People don't believe in God because in the Old Testament he is an *** and who wants to worship an ***, right? But you guys fall into a paradox with this. You don't believe in God because he is an ***, so you reject the book as being Holy, even though, the book you reject as being anymore than fairy tales, is the same book that initially convinced you not to believe in God. This is absolutely illogical and paradoxical. You can't reject a book as being BS writing from a bunch of old people but chose not to believe in God because you don't like the way he is in that same book.

You can go potato all you want, epicurus nailed it a long time ago.

Quote:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

So, let me get you to say this out loud. Do you feel that God should prevent evil? Is that your argument? So we have free will do anything we want, as long as it is only good. Could you explain exactly how this works? Like, seriously, tell me what this world looks like.

This quote assumes that God should prevent evil. Do you not think there are consequences for this action, i.e. You no longer being able to chose to do anything? People are evil, people decide to rape, murder, maim, etc... We choose to participate in Genocide, racism, etc... Yes, God could make all of those things go away. In so doing, you lose any ability to choose anything he doesn't want. In effect, you become a robot with no ability to plan your future, make decisions, or live in any other way except simple existence.

If that's the world you want to live in, cool. I'll pass. People are good and people are bad. You can't have one without the other. If you only want to make people good, then it isn't good, it's standard behavior with no meaning.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 12:32:42
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Religion, is the greatest tool of control there is.
Control, is the greatest weapon man has ever used, and will ever use.
Man creates weapons in order to force people to submit, who haven't willingly (or by other forms of coercion) done so.

Religion, is also created for varying political reasons. The Claim is that the leaders were picked by God, which is patently false.

Example: The Pope is said to be the Right hand of God on earth, as picked by God himself, yet a convene of High Bishops are the ones who ultimately choose a *scapegoat* to be the current head of the religion.
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 12:36:39
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Asura.Alexandero said: »
evolution and simply genetics can't account for alot of our actions that go to the contrary.

Yes, they can.

Neural mechanisms of empathy in humans

Neurological research is a marvellous thing.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 12:38:50
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
evolution and simply genetics can't account for alot of our actions that go to the contrary.

Yes, they can.

Neural mechanisms of empathy in humans

Neurological research is a marvellous thing.

can you read? Read "alot". You proving that they can account for something, does not prove that they account for everything. Poor argument.

This article simply suggests reasons we have empathy. It has nothing to do with why we do things that are contrary to self preservation. I may feel bad about my enemy drowning, but evolution tells me to stay my butt on the shore. It doesn't tell me to possibly sacrifice my life for his.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 12:42:27
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No, the quote is to assert not to call someone, or something a God, when it neither has the ability or will to be one.

Example: The Great Flood.

"And God said unto him, a Great Flood is coming to wash away the Wicked and the Corrupt from the world. I bid unto thee to build an Ark. An Ark to spare two of every living animal under My domain."

Paraphrasing, but the point is, that in order to supposedly have wiped the world of the evil and corrupt, "God" had to wash away his own creations (animals, trees, other plant life, the life of the innocents for only a handful of the corrupt) as a means of Divine Intervention. Noah and his immediate family were the only humans supposedly spared after a "world wide flood" which didn't happen. Which would have made them the only humans left, and a recreation of the Adam and Eve story.

The problem you seem to have, is putting words into another's mouth, or directly taking what wasn't said or otherwise implied, and inferring it against all rational or logic.
 
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 12:44:22
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Asura.Alexandero said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
evolution and simply genetics can't account for alot of our actions that go to the contrary.

Yes, they can.

Neural mechanisms of empathy in humans

Neurological research is a marvellous thing.

can you read? Read "alot". You proving that they can account for something, does not prove that they account for everything. Poor argument.

It's an example refuting your example. Given it's been just over two minutes and that's an in-depth research article, it's a given that you didn't read it, maybe didn't even click the link.

But don't claim "there are things we don't under and never will" when your very example can be explained.

Keep clinging to your security blanket, though.
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2015-01-16 12:45:53
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Bloodrose said: »
Example: The Great Flood.

Now see, the concept of the Great Flood is fascinating because it appears in other older, non-Biblical writings too. Clearly it has a historical basis. Casting aside the myths and legends and fantasies and finding the real roots of these things is so great.
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By charlo999 2015-01-16 12:46:47
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There have been old city ruins found under sediment from a flood in Iraq around the same time as the bible says.


So what are your thoughts on the creation of life on earth guys?
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 12:47:57
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
can you read? Read "alot". You proving that they can account for something, does not prove that they account for everything. Poor argument.

So your argument of a 5th dimension being is good because?

There are 4 others? Is there a reason it should stop at 5? Because Physicist agree there are alot more than we know about? I don't see your point? I made an argument address a particular piece of the pie. This is an argument for the whole pie simply based on a piece.
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