|
Are All Terrorists Muslims? It’s Not Even Close
By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 19:24:03
Semantics, but sounds more like convert than revert, as revert typically means returning to a former state of being.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-16 19:25:51
He listed off 4 points, said 'I don't know' (or some variant) to three of them, concluded the 4th one must be the correct choice, then proceeded to describe his specific god.
No, he's not intelligent.
By Blazed1979 2015-01-16 19:41:45
He listed off 4 points, said 'I don't know' (or some variant) to three of them, concluded the 4th one must be the correct choice, then proceeded to describe his specific god.
No, he's not intelligent.
He doesn't say he "doesn't know" or "some variant" to "three of them".
The first, that the universe came out of nothing is obscene. This isn't a legitimate theory. He is addressing what previous scholars and philosophers have entertained or hypothesized.
(wait, do you think the universe came out of nothing :O ?)
(He addresses this at minute 2:00)
The second, is as obscene as the first. Self-creation.
(He addresses this at Minute 2:16)
The third, the universe was created by something other than God, or another creation.
If you continued watching you would see he addresses all 4 scenarios, but it sounds like you stopped at 1:53.
Edit: You watched the same video I did and didn't see the above.
I won't be taking much notice of who you consider intelligent or dumb.
[+]
By Blazed1979 2015-01-16 19:47:11
Semantics, but sounds more like convert than revert, as revert typically means returning to a former state of being.
Well he identifies himself as a revert. But it should be noted Muslims believe they are created as Muslims and deviated away from it by life and circumstance.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 19:53:56
I haven't jumped through any hoops that I am aware of. I don't believe I get to decide how other people live and what is right and wrong for them, so I don't bother myself with making the attempts. I don't even make it to the "Oh, hey, he's gay. That's nice." part. I don't notice it. I don't care.
You wrote three paragraphs justifying your stance on homosexuality.
You obviously care.
It was an example to support my position. I could write about bacon instead if you like? Or tea, or alcohol, or drugs, w/e.
We're obviously not getting through to one another.
On some level, we're on the same page, as in we both don't care about other people's sexuality. The difference is, you need to come up with reasoning and justification so you wouldn't care about these things. It makes it sound like you need to convince yourself that not caring is the correct response to the issue.
Hence the question: why? Why do you need to come up with these reasons to believe what you do?
If you don't want to answer, then fine, it's not something I'll lose sleep over. I'm just puzzled by it, that's all. Sorry, had to eat. Well, I like to have a reason to act in every way I act. Otherwise, there's no reason to act that way.
Why do I come up with a reason? Well, where I live, the norm is to condemn gays. I live in the Bible belt. As I was growing up, I realized that I acted and thought outside of that norm. So naturally, I asked "why". The reason turned out to be what I said above. I just don't feel the need to push my beliefs on others.
To state in a different way. The reason was borne from the realization that I was already acting in a non-conforming way. Initially, I had no reason. I just didn't think about the gay thing. I didn't care. When I realized that this was out of the norm, I was curious as to why I didn't care, so asked the question.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-16 19:54:44
He listed off 4 points, said 'I don't know' (or some variant) to three of them, concluded the 4th one must be the correct choice, then proceeded to describe his specific god.
No, he's not intelligent.
He doesn't say he "doesn't know" or "some variant" to "three of them".
The first, that the universe came out of nothing is obscene. This isn't a legitimate theory. He is addressing what previous scholars and philosophers have entertained or hypothesized.
(wait, do you think the universe came out of nothing :O ?)
(He addresses this at minute 2:00)
The second, is as obscene as the first. Self-creation.
(He addresses this at Minute 2:16)
The third, the universe was created by something other than God, or another creation.
If you continued watching you would see he addresses all 4 scenarios, but it sounds like you stopped at 1:53.
Edit: You watched the same video I did and didn't see the above.
I won't be taking much notice of who you consider intelligent or dumb.
Fine with me, who you notice or not notice isn't something that I'll lose sleep over either.
It's just interesting that we all (most?) chuckle when we hear stories of ancient people using the god of the gaps argument to prove the existence of god, but when the same kinds of people use the same arguments today, some people still pay them their respect.
By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 19:54:54
Semantics, but sounds more like convert than revert, as revert typically means returning to a former state of being.
Well he identifies himself as a revert. But it should be noted Muslims believe they are created as Muslims and deviated away from it by life and circumstance. that's a fair point, considering the religious beliefs.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 19:57:49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh34Xsq7D_A
Here is a good debate that is on the original topic from IntelligenceSquared. Not stating my personal thoughts here because they are irrelevant. See what you guys think.
If you have a laptop beside you, I enjoy watching these while farming for hours on end. Maybe save for later.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4013
By Odin.Godofgods 2015-01-16 19:59:28
Quote: Let's define "terrorist organization." A terrorist organization is an organization that makes you feel scared all the time and makes you change your behavior. What does CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC do all the time?
That's right.
Wolf Blitzer? Terrorist.
Glenn Beck? Terrorist.
Nancy Grace? Terrorist. Her AND her plastic surgeon.
The only news organization that is not a terrorist organization is the BBC. Because the BBC can make the worst things sound okay. [British accent] Hello, welcome to the BBC. Satan has re-entered the planet. He is picking up babies with his talons, ripping off their heads, and sucking out their souls. We're in for a thousand years of darkness, all hope is lost and now, the World Cup update.
-Christopher Titus
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-16 20:05:18
Sorry, had to eat. Well, I like to have a reason to act in every way I act. Otherwise, there's no reason to act that way.
Why do I come up with a reason? Well, where I live, the norm is to condemn gays. I live in the Bible belt. As I was growing up, I realized that I acted and thought outside of that norm. So naturally, I asked "why". The reason turned out to be what I said above. I just don't feel the need to push my beliefs on others.
To state in a different way. The reason was borne from the realization that I was already acting in a non-conforming way. Initially, I had no reason. I just didn't think about the gay thing. I didn't care. When I realized that this was out of the norm, I was curious as to why I didn't care, so asked the question.
Fair enough. It's not impossible that I would have taken such steps/actions if I was brought up in similar conditions.
And I'll give you props for...not being...prejudice, I guess. There doesn't seem to be a way to say that without sounding judgmental or condescending. Just take it on good faith that it's sincere.
By Blazed1979 2015-01-16 20:05:44
He listed off 4 points, said 'I don't know' (or some variant) to three of them, concluded the 4th one must be the correct choice, then proceeded to describe his specific god.
No, he's not intelligent.
He doesn't say he "doesn't know" or "some variant" to "three of them".
The first, that the universe came out of nothing is obscene. This isn't a legitimate theory. He is addressing what previous scholars and philosophers have entertained or hypothesized.
(wait, do you think the universe came out of nothing :O ?)
(He addresses this at minute 2:00)
The second, is as obscene as the first. Self-creation.
(He addresses this at Minute 2:16)
The third, the universe was created by something other than God, or another creation.
If you continued watching you would see he addresses all 4 scenarios, but it sounds like you stopped at 1:53.
Edit: You watched the same video I did and didn't see the above.
I won't be taking much notice of who you consider intelligent or dumb.
Fine with me, who you notice or not notice isn't something that I'll lose sleep over either.
It's just interesting that we all (most?) chuckle when we hear stories of ancient people using the god of the gaps argument to prove the existence of god, but when the same kinds of people use the same arguments today, some people still pay them their respect.
How is this a case of "God of the gaps"?
No one here is saying Dark Matter is God. No one is stretching or reaching. What exactly makes you think this is a case of "God of the Gaps"?
By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 20:06:05
best part of that quote, GoG...
"Nancy Grace? Terrorist. Her AND her plastic surgeon."
[+]
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-16 20:07:23
How is this a case of "God of the gaps"?
No one here is saying Dark Matter is God. No one is stretching or reaching. What exactly makes you think this is a case of "God of the Gaps"?
Do you know what the 'god of the gaps' argument is?
By Blazed1979 2015-01-16 20:13:09
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh34Xsq7D_A
Here is a good debate that is on the original topic from IntelligenceSquared. Not stating my personal thoughts here because they are irrelevant. See what you guys think.
If you have a laptop beside you, I enjoy watching these while farming for hours on end. Maybe save for later.
=/ sorry dude but those debates are by laymen, not even fluent in Arabic...
There are much bigger dialogues with people who actually representing the mainstream. (pro and vs)
Check Mehdi Hassan's debates, or Dr. Adnan Ibrahime. YouTube Video Placeholder
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 20:17:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh34Xsq7D_A
Here is a good debate that is on the original topic from IntelligenceSquared. Not stating my personal thoughts here because they are irrelevant. See what you guys think.
If you have a laptop beside you, I enjoy watching these while farming for hours on end. Maybe save for later.
=/ sorry dude but those debates are by laymen, not even fluent in Arabic...
There are much bigger dialogues with people who actually representing the mainstream. (pro and vs)
Check Mehdi Hassan's debates, or Dr. Adnan Ibrahime. YouTube Video Placeholder
Ty, I will.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 22:30:47
Is this potato thread still going on?
[+]
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4013
By Odin.Godofgods 2015-01-16 22:54:06
best part of that quote, GoG...
"Nancy Grace? Terrorist. Her AND her plastic surgeon."
i rly wish i a video of that quote. It works so much better being heard then read.
Ragnarok.Zeig
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1773
By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-01-17 01:51:09
How is this a case of "God of the gaps"?
No one here is saying Dark Matter is God. No one is stretching or reaching. What exactly makes you think this is a case of "God of the Gaps"?
Do you know what the 'god of the gaps' argument is? It's only a fallacy if:
1- it conflicts with seeking knowledge
2- you have a better explanation
In the video (which i havent watched btw, but going by how Blazed summarized it, and im familiar with the Quranic argument and Hamza's rhetoric anyways), Hamza never claimed that humans should stop studying the universe because God. Actually, the Quran explicitly encourages mankind to walk the earth and reflect upon the creation, and seek answers to how creation began.
[+]
By Blazed1979 2015-01-17 12:21:47
slightly off topic, but funny
YouTube Video Placeholder
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-17 12:36:31
It's only a fallacy if:
1- it conflicts with seeking knowledge
2- you have a better explanation
I swear to all of the gods, this kind of thing is why I roll my eyes whenever someone claims religion does no harm.
By Blazed1979 2015-01-17 12:40:49
It's only a fallacy if:
1- it conflicts with seeking knowledge
2- you have a better explanation
I swear to all of the gods, this kind of thing is why I roll my eyes whenever someone claims religion does no harm.
I can imagine and see you "rolling" your eyes pretty easily, and I've never seen you in person or met you.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-17 12:47:49
Even if we were in the comment section of a youtube video, that was pretty weak.
It's just sad that there's a whole section of humanity raised on religion that believes it's ok to invoke magic powers as long as we don't have a better explanation for something. In a perfect world, that kind of behavior would be limited only to people living prior to the 14th century.
[+]
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3692
By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-01-17 12:53:43
He listed off 4 points, said 'I don't know' (or some variant) to three of them, concluded the 4th one must be the correct choice, then proceeded to describe his specific god.
No, he's not intelligent.
He doesn't say he "doesn't know" or "some variant" to "three of them".
The first, that the universe came out of nothing is obscene. This isn't a legitimate theory. He is addressing what previous scholars and philosophers have entertained or hypothesized.
(wait, do you think the universe came out of nothing :O ?)
(He addresses this at minute 2:00)
The second, is as obscene as the first. Self-creation.
(He addresses this at Minute 2:16)
The third, the universe was created by something other than God, or another creation.
If you continued watching you would see he addresses all 4 scenarios, but it sounds like you stopped at 1:53.
Edit: You watched the same video I did and didn't see the above.
I won't be taking much notice of who you consider intelligent or dumb.
Fine with me, who you notice or not notice isn't something that I'll lose sleep over either.
It's just interesting that we all (most?) chuckle when we hear stories of ancient people using the god of the gaps argument to prove the existence of god, but when the same kinds of people use the same arguments today, some people still pay them their respect.
How is this a case of "God of the gaps"?
No one here is saying Dark Matter is God. No one is stretching or reaching. What exactly makes you think this is a case of "God of the Gaps"? God of gaps(short):
We don't know, therefore god.
By Blazed1979 2015-01-18 06:54:15
Quote: Paris attacks: Jean-Marie Le Pen says French terror attacks were work of Western intelligence
Front National founder gives credence to conspiracy theories in an interview with virulently anti-western Russian newspaper
JOHN LICHFIELD Author Biography PARIS Saturday 17 January 2015
PRINT A A A
The Charlie Hebdo massacre may have been the work of an “intelligence agency”, working with the connivance of French authorities, according to Jean-Marie Le Pen, founder of the far right Front National.
In an interview with a virulently anti-Western Russian newspaper, Mr Le Pen, 86, gave credence to conspiracy theories circulating on the internet suggesting that the attack was the work of American or Israeli agents seeking to foment a civil war between Islam and the West.
His comments – only partially retracted in an interview with the French newspaper Le Monde today – provoked outrage amongst French politicians. They will also infuriate Marine Le Pen, his daughter, and successor as leader of the FN, who has been trying to distance the party from her father’s extreme and provocative remarks.
Mr Le Pen stood down as FN leader three years ago but remains President-for-life. He made the comments in an interview with Komsomolskaïa Pravda , a newspaper which had already blamed the United States for the terrorist mayhem in France.
Charlie Hebdo: Mourning in Paris
1 of 6
Mourning in Paris
Next
Mourning in ParisMourning in ParisMourning in ParisMourning in ParisMourning in ParisMourning in Paris
“The shooting at Charlie Hebdo resembles a secret service operation but we have no proof of that,” the newspaper quoted Mr Le Pen as saying. “I don’t think it was organised by the French authorities but they permitted this crime to be committed. That, for the moment, is just a supposition.”
To justify his comments, Mr Le Pen pointed to the fact that one of the Kouachi brothers, who carried out the Charlie Hebdo massacre, left his identity card in a crashed getaway car. He compared this to the “miraculous fact” – beloved by conspiracy theorists – that one of the passports of the 9/11 hijackers was found on the ground in New York after two planes collided with the twin towers of the World Trade Centre in 2001.
READ MORE: SUSPECTED TERRORISTS SHOT DEAD IN BELGIUM
A CONTINENT ON THE EDGE - TERROR RAIDS ACROSS EUROPE
CAMERON AND OBAMA VOW JOINT ANTI-TERROR MEASURES
Mr Le Pen made two other provocative remarks in the interview. He said that the 1,500,000 who marched “against hatred” in Paris last Sunday were not “Charlies” but “Charlie Chaplins” (ie clowns). He also said that there were 15,000,00 to 20,000,000 Muslims in France – three or four times the generally accepted figures of 5,000,000 people who are practising Muslims or have Muslim backgrounds.
In an interview with Le Monde today, Mr Le Pen repeated his suspicions about the identity card but said he “could not recall” talking about “secret services” to the Russian newspaper.
Mr Le Pen’s original quoted remarks run directly counter to the official line of his daughter and his party. They have suggested that the attacks on Charlie Hebdo and a Jewish supermarket are the final proof that France faces an “enemy within”, which has been created by immigration and open EU borders.
Conspiracy theories of the kind espoused by the elder Le Pen sprang up on the internet within hours of the Charlie Hebdo attacks. They have been repeated in recent days by some – not all - young Muslims in France, torn between identifying with the Kouachi brothers and insisting that they were stooges of the French authorities, Washington and Israel.
The French “pope of conspiracy theories”, Thierry Meyssan, now based in Damascus, insisted that the Charlie Hebdo massacres were “ordered by US neo-cons and liberal hawks”. An American conspiracy site, McLatchy, has claimed that the Kouachi brothers were working for French intelligence.
Source: http://www.independent.co.uk
By Blazed1979 2015-01-18 06:58:32
YouTube Video Placeholder
YouTube Video Placeholder
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-01-18 07:17:54
What Le Pen said there is pure speculation. It's said in the same article he actually doesn't know, so he's just theory guessing as much as any other average person. Don't see a point in quoting that interview.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3692
By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-01-18 07:20:42
[+]
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4415
By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2015-01-18 07:21:42
I don't care about the whole plot ***but I'm glad I could see the part of the video when he gets "shot".
From what I can see, didn't he get shot in the neck or shoulder? It looks like his clothes are slightly moving.
By charlo999 2015-01-18 14:04:29
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »I don't care about the whole plot ***but I'm glad I could see the part of the video when he gets "shot".
From what I can see, didn't he get shot in the neck or shoulder? It looks like his clothes are slightly moving.
They say he was shot in the head.
So, bullet impact signs on the ground next to his head. And absolutely no signs of blood anywhere, from a point blank ranged shot with a AK47.
And you say it doesn't seem like that because his clothes ruffle?
Obviously the hardline, government knows best/are always right posters are gonna dismiss this because it was brought to us through YouTube(just another media outlet) Even though it shows realtime footage.(and facts like a lot of said YouTube media does)
Bet the Germans thought the same thing when hitter used propaganda to rise to power, and that the Americans thought, before the secret documents were realesed about the propaganda ops in Cuba.
[+]
By Bloodrose 2015-01-18 14:19:05
You're confusing Media Outlet, with Media Device.
Youtube is not the same as NBC, CNBC, FOX, or other news and media outlets.
They don't proselytize news. Often, it's individuals who post, or repost, ***, video games, music, or other things that were already posted by a true media outlet - regardless of whether those outlets actually got their facts straight.
Quote: What percentage of terror attacks in the United States and Europe are committed by Muslims? Guess. Nope. Guess again. And again...
“Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.” How many times have you heard that one? Sure, we heard Fox News’s Brian Kilmeade say it, but to me, that was simply part of the Fox News plan to make their viewers dumber, as we saw again this past weekend when its terrorism “expert” Steve Emerson was caught fabricating the story that Birmingham, England, is closed to non-Muslims. But more alarmingly, even some reasonable people have uttered this statement.
And that comment is often followed up by the question: Why don’t we see Christian, Buddhist, or Jewish terrorists?
Obviously, there are people who sincerely view themselves as Muslims who have committed horrible acts in the name of Islam. We Muslims can make the case that their actions are not based on any part of the faith but on their own political agenda. But they are Muslims, no denying that.
However, and this will probably shock many, so you might want to take a breath: Overwhelmingly, those who have committed terrorist attacks in the United States and Europe aren’t Muslims. Let’s give that a moment to sink in.
Now, it’s not your fault if you aren’t aware of that fact. You can blame the media. (Yes, Sarah Palin and I actually agree on one thing: The mainstream media sucks.)
So here are some statistics for those interested. Let’s start with Europe. Want to guess what percent of the terrorist attacks there were committed by Muslims over the past five years? Wrong. That is, unless you said less than 2 percent.
As Europol, the European Union’s law-enforcement agency, noted in its report released last year, the vast majority of terror attacks in Europe were perpetrated by separatist groups. For example, in 2013, there were 152 terror attacks in Europe. Only two of them were “religiously motivated,” while 84 were predicated upon ethno-nationalist or separatist beliefs.
Or what about the (dare I mention them) Jewish terrorists? Per the 2013 State Department’s report on terrorism, there were 399 acts of terror committed by Israeli settlers.
We are talking about groups like France’s FLNC, which advocates an independent nation for the island of Corsica. In December 2013, FLNC terrorists carried out simultaneous rocket attacks against police stations in two French cities. And in Greece in late 2013, the left-wing Militant Popular Revolutionary Forces shot and killed two members of the right-wing political party Golden Dawn. While over in Italy, the anarchist group FAI engaged in numerous terror attacks including sending a bomb to a journalist. And the list goes on and on.
Have you heard of these incidents? Probably not. But if Muslims had committed them do you think you our media would’ve covered it? No need to answer, that’s a rhetorical question.
Even after one of the worst terror attacks ever in Europe in 2011, when Anders Breivik slaughtered 77 people in Norway to further his anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, and pro-“Christian Europe” agenda as he stated in his manifesto, how much press did we see in the United States? Yes, it was covered, but not the way we see when a Muslim terrorist is involved. Plus we didn’t see terrorism experts fill the cable news sphere asking how we can stop future Christian terrorists. In fact, even the suggestion that Breivik was a “Christian terrorist” was met with outrage by many, including Fox News’s Bill O’Reilly.
Have you heard about the Buddhist terrorists? Well, extremist Buddhists have killed many Muslim civilians in Burma, and just a few months ago in Sri Lanka, some went on a violent rampage burning down Muslim homes and businesses and slaughtering four Muslims.
Or what about the (dare I mention them) Jewish terrorists? Per the 2013 State Department’s report on terrorism, there were 399 acts of terror committed by Israeli settlers in what are known as “price tag” attacks. These Jewish terrorists attacked Palestinian civilians causing physical injuries to 93 of them and also vandalized scores of mosques and Christian churches.
Back in the United States, the percentage of terror attacks committed by Muslims is almost as miniscule as in Europe. An FBI study looking at terrorism committed on U.S. soil between 1980 and 2005 found that 94 percent of the terror attacks were committed by non-Muslims. In actuality, 42 percent of terror attacks were carried out by Latino-related groups, followed by 24 percent perpetrated by extreme left-wing actors.
And as a 2014 study by University of North Carolina found, since the 9/11 attacks, Muslim-linked terrorism has claimed the lives of 37 Americans. In that same time period, more than 190,000 Americans were murdered (PDF).
In fact in 2013, it was actually more likely Americans would be killed by a toddler than a terrorist. In that year, three Americans were killed in the Boston Marathon bombing. How many people did toddlers kill in 2013? Five, all by accidentally shooting a gun.
But our media simply do not cover the non-Muslim terror attacks with same gusto. Why? It’s a business decision. Stories about scary “others” play better. It’s a story that can simply be framed as good versus evil with Americans being the good guy and the brown Muslim as the bad.
Honestly, when is the last time we heard the media refer to those who attack abortion clinics as “Christian terrorists,” even though these attacks occur at one of every five reproductive health-care facilities? That doesn’t sell as well. After all we are a so-called Christian nation, so that would require us to look at the enemy within our country, and that makes many uncomfortable. Or worse, it makes them change the channel.
That’s the same reason we don’t see many stories about how to reduce the 30 Americans killed each day by gun violence or the three women per day killed by domestic violence. But the media will have on expert after expert discussing how can we stop these scary brown Muslims from killing any more Americans despite the fact you actually have a better chance of being killed by a refrigerator falling on you.
Look, this article is not going to change the media’s business model. But what I hope it does is cause some to realize that not all terrorists are Muslims. In fact, they are actually a very small percent of those that are. Now, I’m not saying to ignore the dangers posed by Islamic radicals. I’m just saying look out for those refrigerators.
Source
|
|