Are All Terrorists Muslims? It’s Not Even Close

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Are All Terrorists Muslims? It’s Not Even Close
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2015-01-16 16:38:40
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Jesus is all we have. He is the only one that could potentially offer the truth. Everyone else is just people. There is no way to determine any divine word through them anymore than you can do it with me right now.

And his words are translated, too. You can't get around this problem that way.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 16:38:50
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Asura.Alexandero said: »
Bloodrose said: »
I have a lot of criteria for judging the Christian God, and you're way off base on what I actually judge it on.

When you attribute a religion to a God, you are inevitably granting permission to judge said God based on the followers of that religious based God.

"The Christian God"
"The Catholic God"
"The Muslim God"

Technically, they should all be one and the same, yet the religions portray him in different ways, however minor they may be, to distinguish him from other faiths.

The idea that you believe that a singular act of sacrifice is set up to prove that all people are ***, is entirely subjective, and is unfavorably judgmental of that same "Christian God", as he had supposedly made man in his image and his likeness.

Why would you judge God based on the actions of people? Wouldn't it be kind of messed up if I made my decision about you based on talking to people on these forums? Shouldn't I just ask you?
Why would I judge God based on the billions of people who worship and follow him? For the same reason I judge people from hearing multiple sources. It gives you an idea to form your own beliefs, to choose to walk cautiously into something or a situation you know nothing about. I still have my personal experiences, I just add to it the experiences of others. Thus is the basis of "research" that you so adamantly express others do.

This is actually contradictory to your previous statements - Believe in God without question. Just be wary of the Religion that put him there.

However, as you said, it matters not whether I believe he exists - I don't believe in a God, particularly as he is described by holy texts that know nothing about him or her, or if it even has a gender.

I'm an advocate of questioning your own beliefs, particularly religious beliefs. I sought out the answers to my questions, and they came from unexpected places. Chances are, because I've questioned my beliefs so diligently and fervently, I have a better first-hand understanding than you do at this time.

I've read the bible several times when I was younger, trying to understand the reasons for the blatant hypocrisy between the teachings. Hell, I still own a copy of the New Testament, because I found it in my apartment when I moved in here 10 years ago.

I've also observed the best and the worst that "The Christian God", and his followers have to offer, and found that there is also a middle ground. The Middle ground is quite large. They can be normal, helpful and understanding in their local communities, but give in to anonymity, and what they share or do changes drastically. The opposite is true as well. All of this, even if they don't belong specifically Christian religion, but subscribe to a Christian God, is testament to what he supposedly allows.

Kind of like how the Bible was written in a format for what his followers believe are right and virtuous.

Don't get me wrong, the 10 commandments are great, but when you narrow it down, it's basically just 2 commandments:
1: Don't be a jerkoff,
2. Repent if you are.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 16:40:08
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No, you don't have to. We can get the gist of what he was saying. They may have had mistranslations but they didn't mistranslate the entire book. If that were true, it would just be another book.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2015-01-16 16:40:38
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Don't get me wrong, the 10 commandments are great, but when you narrow it down, it's basically just 2 commandments:
1: Don't be a jerkoff,
2. Repent if you are.

I know you aren't responding to me, but the ten commandments don't give the option for the second, which was my point.
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-16 16:44:41
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Well if I was god, and people worship me were doing terrible things in my name, I would step in and do something about it. But that's just me.

There may or may not be a god, but it's just so interesting how the entire world operates exactly as if there wasn't a god and we're just a bunch of idiots bouncing around a giant space rock flying through space, following an endless cycle of breeding and dying.

I just find it interesting that ever since we started paying attention to reality and not relying on history's longest on-going game of telephone to determine the reality of the universe, all those miracles that used to occur suddenly stopped happening.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2015-01-16 16:45:23
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OH WAIT ***

My take doesn't necessarily involve God being infallible as long as you don't take "infallible" as meaning "constantly willing to take a direct hand to save people from themselves." Humanity became sinful on its own vis a vis Adam and Eve, which would be why we are habitually incapable of living up to God's standard for good behavior. This wasn't part of God's plan, so he decided we needed another avenue.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 16:48:51
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Bloodrose said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
Bloodrose said: »
I have a lot of criteria for judging the Christian God, and you're way off base on what I actually judge it on.

When you attribute a religion to a God, you are inevitably granting permission to judge said God based on the followers of that religious based God.

"The Christian God"
"The Catholic God"
"The Muslim God"

Technically, they should all be one and the same, yet the religions portray him in different ways, however minor they may be, to distinguish him from other faiths.

The idea that you believe that a singular act of sacrifice is set up to prove that all people are ***, is entirely subjective, and is unfavorably judgmental of that same "Christian God", as he had supposedly made man in his image and his likeness.

Why would you judge God based on the actions of people? Wouldn't it be kind of messed up if I made my decision about you based on talking to people on these forums? Shouldn't I just ask you?
Why would I judge God based on the billions of people who worship and follow him? For the same reason I judge people from hearing multiple sources. It gives you an idea to form your own beliefs, to choose to walk cautiously into something or a situation you know nothing about. I still have my personal experiences, I just add to it the experiences of others. Thus is the basis of "research" that you so adamantly express others do.

This is actually contradictory to your previous statements - Believe in God without question. Just be wary of the Religion that put him there.

However, as you said, it matters not whether I believe he exists - I don't believe in a God, particularly as he is described by holy texts that know nothing about him or her, or if it even has a gender.

I'm an advocate of questioning your own beliefs, particularly religious beliefs. I sought out the answers to my questions, and they came from unexpected places. Chances are, because I've questioned my beliefs so diligently and fervently, I have a better first-hand understanding than you do at this time.

I've read the bible several times when I was younger, trying to understand the reasons for the blatant hypocrisy between the teachings. Hell, I still own a copy of the New Testament, because I found it in my apartment when I moved in here 10 years ago.

I've also observed the best and the worst that "The Christian God", and his followers have to offer, and found that there is also a middle ground. The Middle ground is quite large. They can be normal, helpful and understanding in their local communities, but give in to anonymity, and what they share or do changes drastically. The opposite is true as well. All of this, even if they don't belong specifically Christian religion, but subscribe to a Christian God, is testament to what he supposedly allows.

Kind of like how the Bible was written in a format for what his followers believe are right and virtuous.

Don't get me wrong, the 10 commandments are great, but when you narrow it down, it's basically just 2 commandments:
1: Don't be a jerkoff,
2. Repent if you are.

I give up then. My point is lost on most everyone. You are basing your belief on the Bible, on churches, religions, etc... They don't make sense, so you don't believe them. You claim you question everything but you are subjecting a God to what is happening around you. When nothing happening around you has any more clue what they are talking about than anyone else. Don't assume you asked more questions than I have. Just because someone believes doesn't mean they are blindly following anything.

Whether or not God is real and God is good, has absolutely nothing to do with religion, politics, atheists, or any other human construct. I fail to see how this is such a hard concept for people to grasp. People do not define God, in fact, they make a horrible failure of an attempt to do so. I reject religion, religion is man made. It is just as imperfect as the people that create it. I don't reject God, he has nothing to do with religion. Sheesh. If you want to combine the two, then fine. If God exists he certainly doesn't need us to define him nor does he even need the human race. We can die out tomorrow and that doesn't change whether he is there or not. Whether he is good or bad, or not.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 16:52:54
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Well if I was god, and people worship me were doing terrible things in my name, I would step in and do something about it. But that's just me.

There may or may not be a god, but it's just so interesting how the entire world operates exactly as if there wasn't a god and we're just a bunch of idiots bouncing around a giant space rock flying through space, following an endless cycle of breeding and dying.

I just find it interesting that ever since we started paying attention to reality and not relying on history's longest on-going game of telephone to determine the reality of the universe, all those miracles that used to occur suddenly stopped happening.

What would you do? What would be the best thing? Would you come down here yourself? And do what? Tell everyone you were God? Send your son to tell everyone about you? How would you convince them? Baking good cakes or performing miracles?

Would you do that every single generation from now until the end? If the goal is to allow them the choice to believe in you or not, don't you kind of screw that up if you plop down on main st and just hang out? People kind of have to believe then right? Kind of takes free will and throws it out the window. Who is going to murder someone in front of God?

You're right, after those thousands of Old Testament years, he should have done something if it wasnt true. Kind of seems like he did to me. Can he help it if people just decide, well I didnt see it so it doesn't count.

If I was God and I sent my son to help you guys out, and in return you murdered him. You think Im going to just keep sending him down there to get murdered just so you can have some proof? You can either believe that it really happened and have faith, or don't, but I'm not going to keep sending my kid down there to you *** to murder over and over just to appease your burden of proof.

We need faith in order to keep him from having to do that every ten years. I don't blame him for requiring faith, I certainly wouldnt put my kid through that again, after I already did it for you once.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 17:04:14
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As I have stated quite clearly, I am a spiritualist.

You are inferring something that was never implied, and have stated prior that questioning one's faith, can even help bolster that believe.

I don't know how much clearer I need to be about not going full *** potato.

What do we know about God? NOTHING! Where do we glean any information about his existence? EVERYTHING AROUND US! Not just the bible, not just his followers, religion, or churches.

I clearly subscribe to an idea of a Creator, just not some fantasy old guy with a beard who happens to be invisible. You incorrectly assume, that because I do not subscribe to the idea of a God, that I am somehow an atheist. I've also stated, that "God", doesn't need us. Doesn't need our devotion, something we agree on, but clearly you seem persistent on arguing in a fashion that would lead you to disagreeing on it.

I subject the existence of God to the things happening around me, because, as you, and others like you put it, Everything around us is proof that God exists. Anything that doesn't tells you not to question it, because reasons, is purely blind faith.

You can't see the air, but you know it exists, you can witness the effects the air has on living things. Even inanimate things through oxidization.

I have only combined the two, where the two seem to intersect. I have also combined "God", with many other facets, though you seem to argue that people are simply *** by nature, rather than by God's will, which, has been disproven through behavioral science, studies, and understanding.

You don't actually have a point, and simply prefer to argue for the sake of argument. People, yourself included, construct god as a human-like entity. Thus, where do your beliefs stem from, that God exists? Oh, right. Everything that happens around you is evidence he exists. So shall he be judged by everything around me.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 17:12:21
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Bloodrose said: »
As I have stated quite clearly, I am a spiritualist.

You are inferring something that was never implied, and have stated prior that questioning one's faith, can even help bolster that believe.

I don't know how much clearer I need to be about not going full *** potato.

What do we know about God? NOTHING! Where do we glean any information about his existence? EVERYTHING AROUND US! Not just the bible, not just his followers, religion, or churches.

I clearly subscribe to an idea of a Creator, just not some fantasy old guy with a beard who happens to be invisible. You incorrectly assume, that because I do not subscribe to the idea of a God, that I am somehow an atheist. I've also stated, that "God", doesn't need us. Doesn't need our devotion, something we agree on, but clearly you seem persistent on arguing in a fashion that would lead you to disagreeing on it.

I subject the existence of God to the things happening around me, because, as you, and others like you put it, Everything around us is proof that God exists. Anything that doesn't tells you not to question it, because reasons, is purely blind faith.

You can't see the air, but you know it exists, you can witness the effects the air has on living things. Even inanimate things through oxidization.

I have only combined the two, where the two seem to intersect. I have also combined "God", with many other facets, though you seem to argue that people are simply *** by nature, rather than by God's will, which, has been disproven through behavioral science, studies, and understanding.

You don't actually have a point, and simply prefer to argue for the sake of argument. People, yourself included, construct god as a human-like entity. Thus, where do your beliefs stem from, that God exists? Oh, right. Everything that happens around you is evidence he exists. So shall he be judged by everything around me.
I don't think God looks anything like a human. I don't think he is a grey beard old man. In fact, if that is your stance, I probably lean way more your way than I do toward the one God presented in the Bible.

The argument for everything around us is proof, only applies if God is actually real. I don't use it, however, as proof of his existence. It is simply an argument that removes him from scientific scrutiny. IF he doesn't exist, then there is no evidence (My atheist friend has a habit of turning every scientific discovery into Proof that God isnt real). IF he does, then everything is evidence (Not implying that I take all of this evidence to form my belief). My original point on this, was that you first have to decide whether he exists or not, to use anything scientific to support that. Both parties can use the same evidence to support their theory.

I believe in something that I can't really describe. I wouldn't know what he looks like, nor would I assume to. I don't think human beings are capable of describing it/him, and religions are borne as attempts to.

If I called you an atheist or implied that you were one, I apologize. I must not have read back far enough to see your position, or just missed it in the earlier chaos of threads.
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By charlo999 2015-01-16 17:15:09
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Totally respect your view there rose. Well said.
I perceive god in the world today, as the charity of goodness and kindness shown towards others, also in the natural beauty in the world around us and its balance. It's perfection is indescribable and the closer you look the more amazing it gets.
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-16 17:15:51
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Asura.Alexandero said: »
What would you do? What would be the best thing? Would you come down here yourself? And do what? Tell everyone you were God? Send your son to tell everyone about you? How would you convince them? Baking good cakes or performing miracles?

Would you do that every single generation from now until the end? If the goal is to allow them the choice to believe in you or not, don't you kind of screw that up if you plop down on main st and just hang out? People kind of have to believe then right? Kind of takes free will and throws it out the window. Who is going to murder someone in front of God?

You're right, after those thousands of Old Testament years, he should have done something if it wasnt true. Kind of seems like he did to me. Can he help it if people just decide, well I didnt see it so it doesn't count.

If I was God and I sent my son to help you guys out, and in return you murdered him. You think Im going to just keep sending him down there to get murdered just so you can have some proof? You can either believe that it really happened and have faith, or don't, but I'm not going to keep sending my kid down there to you *** to murder over and over just to appease your burden of proof.

We need faith in order to keep him from having to do that every ten years. I don't blame him for requiring faith, I certainly wouldnt put my kid through that again, after I already did it for you once.

If I was god, I would be f-in' GOD. I could and would do anything I wanted or needed to be done. Oh hey, a bunch of scumbags just kidnapped some schoolgirls and are forcing them into sex slavery...there is literally countless ways for me to prevent that if I had the powers of a god.

There's no reason to make this more complicated than it really is. I imagine you're just doing it just so you can pretend to lose yourself in something you wish to be too complex for your mind.

It's just silly that in 2015, people still believe in magic powers.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 17:19:58
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
What would you do? What would be the best thing? Would you come down here yourself? And do what? Tell everyone you were God? Send your son to tell everyone about you? How would you convince them? Baking good cakes or performing miracles?

Would you do that every single generation from now until the end? If the goal is to allow them the choice to believe in you or not, don't you kind of screw that up if you plop down on main st and just hang out? People kind of have to believe then right? Kind of takes free will and throws it out the window. Who is going to murder someone in front of God?

You're right, after those thousands of Old Testament years, he should have done something if it wasnt true. Kind of seems like he did to me. Can he help it if people just decide, well I didnt see it so it doesn't count.

If I was God and I sent my son to help you guys out, and in return you murdered him. You think Im going to just keep sending him down there to get murdered just so you can have some proof? You can either believe that it really happened and have faith, or don't, but I'm not going to keep sending my kid down there to you *** to murder over and over just to appease your burden of proof.

We need faith in order to keep him from having to do that every ten years. I don't blame him for requiring faith, I certainly wouldnt put my kid through that again, after I already did it for you once.

If I was god, I would be f-in' GOD. I could and would do anything I wanted or needed to be done. Oh hey, a bunch of scumbags just kidnapped some schoolgirls and are forcing them into sex slavery...there is literally countless ways for me to prevent that if I had the powers of a god.

There's no reason to make this more complicated than it really is. I imagine you're just doing it just so you can pretend to lose yourself in something you wish to be too complex for your mind.

It's just silly that in 2015, people still believe in magic powers.

It's actually quite simple. If every bad act were prevented, then we would lose our ability to choose between right and wrong. That's it.

One may argue that believing something can pop out of nothing is sillier than magic.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 17:20:13
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Asura.Alexandero said: »
Bloodrose said: »
As I have stated quite clearly, I am a spiritualist.

You are inferring something that was never implied, and have stated prior that questioning one's faith, can even help bolster that believe.

I don't know how much clearer I need to be about not going full *** potato.

What do we know about God? NOTHING! Where do we glean any information about his existence? EVERYTHING AROUND US! Not just the bible, not just his followers, religion, or churches.

I clearly subscribe to an idea of a Creator, just not some fantasy old guy with a beard who happens to be invisible. You incorrectly assume, that because I do not subscribe to the idea of a God, that I am somehow an atheist. I've also stated, that "God", doesn't need us. Doesn't need our devotion, something we agree on, but clearly you seem persistent on arguing in a fashion that would lead you to disagreeing on it.

I subject the existence of God to the things happening around me, because, as you, and others like you put it, Everything around us is proof that God exists. Anything that doesn't tells you not to question it, because reasons, is purely blind faith.

You can't see the air, but you know it exists, you can witness the effects the air has on living things. Even inanimate things through oxidization.

I have only combined the two, where the two seem to intersect. I have also combined "God", with many other facets, though you seem to argue that people are simply *** by nature, rather than by God's will, which, has been disproven through behavioral science, studies, and understanding.

You don't actually have a point, and simply prefer to argue for the sake of argument. People, yourself included, construct god as a human-like entity. Thus, where do your beliefs stem from, that God exists? Oh, right. Everything that happens around you is evidence he exists. So shall he be judged by everything around me.
I don't think God looks anything like a human. I don't think he is a grey beard old man. In fact, if that is your stance, I probably lean way more your way than I do toward the one God presented in the Bible.
The argument for everything around us is proof, only applies if God is actually real. I don't use it, however, as proof of his existence. It is simply an argument that removes him from scientific scrutiny. IF he doesn't exist, then there is no evidence. IF he does, then everything is evidence (Not implying that I take all of this evidence to form my belief). My original point on this, was that you first have to decide whether he exists or not, to use anything scientific to support that. Both parties can use the same evidence to support their theory.
I believe in something that I can't really describe. I wouldn't know what he looks like, nor would I assume to. I don't think human beings are capable of describing it/him, and religions are borne as attempts to.
If I called you an atheist or implied that you were one, I apologize. I must not have read back far enough to see your position, or just missed it in the earlier chaos of threads.
I do greatly appreciate the humility and the apology.

I also would like to apologize, if I sounded harsher than was meant. Out of benefit of the doubt, I would say, due to the chaos, it would have easily been missed.

I don't know if I'd disagree on one point though - Whether God or not is real, both sides will attempt to use it as a basis for scientific and/or religious scrutiny.

I could understand, if one presented that there was a God-like being, or Creator, created things as they were, at a time when they only had a singular purpose.

Add in to the mix, the advent of Man. Man constructs many things - one could argue we are, by nature or Divine will, intended to be imaginative progenies to the previous Creator. We see something that exists, and has a singular purpose, and we give it another, or new purpose. In this sense, it could be said, instead of being the progeny of a God or Creator, our place in the universe, could be that of Re-Creators.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 17:22:31
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Bloodrose said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
Bloodrose said: »
As I have stated quite clearly, I am a spiritualist.

You are inferring something that was never implied, and have stated prior that questioning one's faith, can even help bolster that believe.

I don't know how much clearer I need to be about not going full *** potato.

What do we know about God? NOTHING! Where do we glean any information about his existence? EVERYTHING AROUND US! Not just the bible, not just his followers, religion, or churches.

I clearly subscribe to an idea of a Creator, just not some fantasy old guy with a beard who happens to be invisible. You incorrectly assume, that because I do not subscribe to the idea of a God, that I am somehow an atheist. I've also stated, that "God", doesn't need us. Doesn't need our devotion, something we agree on, but clearly you seem persistent on arguing in a fashion that would lead you to disagreeing on it.

I subject the existence of God to the things happening around me, because, as you, and others like you put it, Everything around us is proof that God exists. Anything that doesn't tells you not to question it, because reasons, is purely blind faith.

You can't see the air, but you know it exists, you can witness the effects the air has on living things. Even inanimate things through oxidization.

I have only combined the two, where the two seem to intersect. I have also combined "God", with many other facets, though you seem to argue that people are simply *** by nature, rather than by God's will, which, has been disproven through behavioral science, studies, and understanding.

You don't actually have a point, and simply prefer to argue for the sake of argument. People, yourself included, construct god as a human-like entity. Thus, where do your beliefs stem from, that God exists? Oh, right. Everything that happens around you is evidence he exists. So shall he be judged by everything around me.
I don't think God looks anything like a human. I don't think he is a grey beard old man. In fact, if that is your stance, I probably lean way more your way than I do toward the one God presented in the Bible.
The argument for everything around us is proof, only applies if God is actually real. I don't use it, however, as proof of his existence. It is simply an argument that removes him from scientific scrutiny. IF he doesn't exist, then there is no evidence. IF he does, then everything is evidence (Not implying that I take all of this evidence to form my belief). My original point on this, was that you first have to decide whether he exists or not, to use anything scientific to support that. Both parties can use the same evidence to support their theory.
I believe in something that I can't really describe. I wouldn't know what he looks like, nor would I assume to. I don't think human beings are capable of describing it/him, and religions are borne as attempts to.
If I called you an atheist or implied that you were one, I apologize. I must not have read back far enough to see your position, or just missed it in the earlier chaos of threads.
I do greatly appreciate the humility and the apology.

I also would like to apologize, if I sounded harsher than was meant. Out of benefit of the doubt, I would say, due to the chaos, it would have easily been missed.

I don't know if I'd disagree on one point though - Whether God or not is real, both sides will attempt to use it as a basis for scientific and/or religious scrutiny.

I could understand, if one presented that there was a God-like being, or Creator, created things as they were, at a time when they only had a singular purpose.

Add in to the mix, the advent of Man. Man constructs many things - one could argue we are, by nature or Divine will, intended to be imaginative progenies to the previous Creator. We see something that exists, and has a singular purpose, and we give it another, or new purpose. In this sense, it could be said, instead of being the progeny of a God or Creator, our place in the universe, could be that of Re-Creators.

I agree.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 17:26:33
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We would have "Divinely limited free-will", but it would still be there

Even in the face of causing harm, people claim they had no choice - a veritable gun to their head... Figuratively or literally, as the case may be.

Yet, in those instances, many people still choose to do what they believe to be the best course of action - be it morally right to one, or morally wrong to another.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Some will hail the gunman as a hero, and others will hail the person at gunpoint as the hero, who put himself in harms way to protect an innocent from harm.

This is why morals are very subjective, even from the people sitting next to you, to the person who lives halfway across the planet.

Obvious Example: Two people can read the Holy Scriptures, and interpret them two entirely different ways.
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-01-16 17:33:05
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I'm waiting for Blazed to wake up and witness the mess he started.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 17:33:49
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And the inevitable shitstorm that follows?
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-16 17:35:12
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Asura.Alexandero said: »
It's actually quite simple. If every bad act were prevented, then we would lose our ability to choose between right and wrong. That's it.

One may argue that believing something can pop out of nothing is sillier than magic.

Right, I'm sure freeing the people from North Korea concentration camps would have an overall negative effect on humanity.

And no one believes that something popped out of nothing. That's just a line created by religious figures and pushed on to rational people to invoke a sense of false equivalence. A literal strawman, in case any religious conservatives wants to take notes on what a strawman actually is.

Trust me when I tell you magic powers do exist. It just so happens that it exists on the other side of the tv screen.
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-01-16 17:37:13
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Ah just what the thread needed: new blood
Missing Fonewear though
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 17:37:49
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wait, I thought I was old blood?

nvm, humor lost
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-16 17:38:26
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I spy with my little eye... someone bitter.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 17:39:10
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*insert Hook movie reference here*

"You're not the fonewear, I'm the fonewear!"

*holds up corny jokes*
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 17:40:23
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Bloodrose said: »
We would have "Divinely limited free-will", but it would still be there

Even in the face of causing harm, people claim they had no choice - a veritable gun to their head... Figuratively or literally, as the case may be.

Yet, in those instances, many people still choose to do what they believe to be the best course of action - be it morally right to one, or morally wrong to another.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Some will hail the gunman as a hero, and others will hail the person at gunpoint as the hero, who put himself in harms way to protect an innocent from harm.

This is why morals are very subjective, even from the people sitting next to you, to the person who lives halfway across the planet.

Obvious Example: Two people can read the Holy Scriptures, and interpret them two entirely different ways.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of this. We may disagree on the role Christ played, but I think what you just described is the reason he said "Dont judge others". When we judge other people we are subjecting them to our own morality.

While, I do believe there are certain objective moralities, like "Dont eat your kids", I believe most of our own morals are extremely subjective. What I believe to be right or wrong does not mean that the guy/gal next to me believes the same thing.

For instance, I may think it is great to eat Pork. Maybe I believe God made pork for us to eat and so it is good. On the other hand, someone else may believe it is bad. I don't believe I get to tell them they are being bad if they eat it, because inside, they are doing what they think is truly right. Nor can they tell me the opposite.

I am a big believer in individualism for this reason. When I was young churches would preach that being gay is a sin. A sin, to me, is knowing that something is wrong, yet doing it anyway. If a person is gay, how can they possibly think it is wrong? They are living according to what they think is right, I that is what I think counts.

I, personally, don't think gay is right for me. That doesn't mean that this belief gets to be universally applied to everyone. And... I like bacon. The only issue I have with other peoples morality, is when it starts dictating how I should and shouldn't live.

People that say you are gay, thus you are sinning and going to hell, are just as guilty of sinning as soon as they pass that judgement. Well, not just as guilty, the gay person did nothing wrong so isnt guilty at all. The only one in hot water at that point is the one pointing the finger. :)
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-16 17:43:38
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Asura.Alexandero said: »
They are living according to what they think is right, I that is what I think counts.

I don't disagree with your whole post, but there's an ongoing problem with people who think they are living according to what is right but are murdering people in the process. You can't have it both ways.
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-01-16 17:44:27
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Asura.Alexandero said: »
I am a big believer in individualism for this reason. When I was young churches would preach that being gay is a sin. A sin, to me, is knowing that something is wrong, yet doing it anyway. If a person is gay, how can they possibly think it is wrong? They are living according to what they think is right, I that is what I think counts.

I, personally, don't think gay is right for me. That doesn't mean that this belief gets to be universally applied to everyone. And... I like bacon. The only issue I have with other peoples morality, is when it starts dictating how I should and shouldn't live.

People that say you are gay, thus you are sinning and going to hell, are just as guilty of sinning as soon as they pass that judgement. Well, not just as guilty, the gay person did nothing wrong so isnt guilty at all. The only one in hot water at that point is the one pointing the finger. :)

I don't understand religious people at all.

Why do you create and force yourself to jump through such hoops just to get yourself to believe something?

Why not just behave like (what I like to call) normal people and just say, "Oh hey, he's gay. That's nice. Now what's on TV".
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 17:45:25
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
It's actually quite simple. If every bad act were prevented, then we would lose our ability to choose between right and wrong. That's it.

One may argue that believing something can pop out of nothing is sillier than magic.

Right, I'm sure freeing the people from North Korea concentration camps would have an overall negative effect on humanity.

And no one believes that something popped out of nothing. That's just a line created by religious figures and pushed on to rational people to invoke a sense of false equivalence. A literal strawman, in case any religious conservatives wants to take notes on what a strawman actually is.

Trust me when I tell you magic powers do exist. It just so happens that it exists on the other side of the tv screen.

Wrong. I learned Flurry yesterday. Don't believe me? Check FFXIAH. And everyone knows that FFXI is real!
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-01-16 17:47:38
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
They are living according to what they think is right, I that is what I think counts.

I don't disagree with your whole post, but there's an ongoing problem with people who think they are living according to what is right but are murdering people in the process. You can't have it both ways.
Which is exactly why humans need an objective moral reference, and the best-suited source for that reference should be the omniscience God.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-16 17:47:58
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
I am a big believer in individualism for this reason. When I was young churches would preach that being gay is a sin. A sin, to me, is knowing that something is wrong, yet doing it anyway. If a person is gay, how can they possibly think it is wrong? They are living according to what they think is right, I that is what I think counts.

I, personally, don't think gay is right for me. That doesn't mean that this belief gets to be universally applied to everyone. And... I like bacon. The only issue I have with other peoples morality, is when it starts dictating how I should and shouldn't live.

People that say you are gay, thus you are sinning and going to hell, are just as guilty of sinning as soon as they pass that judgement. Well, not just as guilty, the gay person did nothing wrong so isnt guilty at all. The only one in hot water at that point is the one pointing the finger. :)

I don't understand religious people at all.

Why do you create and force yourself to jump through such hoops just to get yourself to believe something?

Why not just behave like (what I like to call) normal people and just say, "Oh hey, he's gay. That's nice. Now what's on TV".
Maybe because people don't think you're the expert on how other people should behave?
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 17:48:12
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Well, what if someone happened to like gay bacon?

Also, I think that scientists have come to a conclusion (note, I mean neurologists, psychologists, etc. who have an in-depth knowledge) that being gay, isn't a choice. It's a matter of attraction to the same gender on a sexual level.

Sexuality isn't something we have an inherent control over.

We do, however, have a control over how sensual we choose to be.

Synonymous, but not the same thing.

Bacon is bacon, people are people. You live your life, I live mine. As long as we don't force our opinions onto others, even if we don't respect that opinion, there's no negative conflict or negative friction.

Sometimes, depending on belief structure, you have to stop and ask 2 important questions: "Does God care if you're gay, when he made you that way?" and "If he doesn't care, why is it that I should treat it like an abomination of nature?"
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