Are All Terrorists Muslims? It’s Not Even Close

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Are All Terrorists Muslims? It’s Not Even Close
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-16 14:43:49
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The Japanese Emperor existed within our lifetime, we have pictures of him and claimed to be a descendant of the Gods. Amaterasu in particular.

Should I believe that Amaterasu exists because Hirohito did? No, because thats HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.

Jesus in the historicity doesn't prove he raised anyone from the dead or performed any miracles. He could have been the same preacher talked about in the Bible without the magic killed by the Empire for being a thorn in their side.
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-01-16 14:44:27
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All terrorists are Sehas!
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 14:44:39
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Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
Also what about all the people who never even *** heard of god they get a mulligan or just *** from birth?
The bible says that people know that God exist because creation is proof of Himself. It's a debated subject among christians of what happens to those who have never heard of Jesus. I personal believe God grades on the curve as He seems to have done in the old testament. The only problem with that is that man isn't mostly Good fighting the small urge to not be bad but inherently bad fighting to do good. So the necessity of the Gospel to be preached is vital.
Why do you use the bible for reference?

You know that the bible is written by man, not by God. If God is so great, why not use him as a primary source instead of a secondary source like the bible?
Because God has chosen to reveal Himself in Christ and Christ is vividly expressed in the scriptures.
Again, you are taking second-handed information and presenting it as fact.

Jesus claimed (either himself, which is highly unlikely, or by a third person, which is very likely) to be the son of God. You know what happens to people who claim to be the son of God? They get rounded up and sent to the funny farm.

What the Christian Bible did was take a figure from history who was martyred by the Roman Empire for crimes against the state and created a religion around him. How much of the Christian Jesus is true is hard to say, but his "miraculous works" is fiction, along with his supposed method of being born.
He verified His claims as the Son of God by the miracles that followed His ministry.
Miracles defined by a book to define that book?

Do you believe that Harry Potter is real? He preformed what normal people would consider to be miracles. His miracles are defined by a book. The book defines the character. So, is Harry Potter real?

If you say no, then what separates Harry Potter from Jesus?
If you say yes, then you have no basis in reality.
No. Because there is proof outside of the bible the proves that the man Jesus did exist and there was much said about Him in association with miracles.
There is no verifiable proof that "Jesus Christ", as is said in the bible, written hundreds of years after his death, was real. There is, however, evidence that "Jesus Christ", was based off of a real person named Jeshua bon Joseph.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-16 14:45:32
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ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Quote:
Apparently you fail to notice the one thing common in every religion there is: A creator is born from the mind of a man.

If religion never existed, there would be no concept of God, and without a concept of God, he would cease being God and will be known as an unknown. Since the unknown cannot be known without evidence of existence, the being formally known as God would not exist because by definition of the (now nonexistent religious text) concept of God requires a defined existence which never existed.

Ok, I have to stick up for Alexandero here and say you're begging the question in a real and serious way; saying God wouldn't exist without mortals to worship it is just starting from the premise that God is a work of fiction, unless you're relying on some silly D&D/Gaiman cosmology where the gods rely on human worship for power.

Plenty, if not all religions suppose divine forces that exist without the consent of mortals, and some (Sikhism is awesome about this) are explicit that God is indifferent to mortal worship; the worship is for the benefit of the mortals.

God is a primal? It all makes sense now.
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 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-01-16 14:45:47
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Oh 9 pages I can go full potato now neat!
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By Odin.Blazeoffury 2015-01-16 14:46:45
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
Also what about all the people who never even *** heard of god they get a mulligan or just *** from birth?
The bible says that people know that God exist because creation is proof of Himself. It's a debated subject among christians of what happens to those who have never heard of Jesus. I personal believe God grades on the curve as He seems to have done in the old testament. The only problem with that is that man isn't mostly Good fighting the small urge to not be bad but inherently bad fighting to do good. So the necessity of the Gospel to be preached is vital.
Why do you use the bible for reference?

You know that the bible is written by man, not by God. If God is so great, why not use him as a primary source instead of a secondary source like the bible?
Because God has chosen to reveal Himself in Christ and Christ is vividly expressed in the scriptures.
Again, you are taking second-handed information and presenting it as fact.

Jesus claimed (either himself, which is highly unlikely, or by a third person, which is very likely) to be the son of God. You know what happens to people who claim to be the son of God? They get rounded up and sent to the funny farm.

What the Christian Bible did was take a figure from history who was martyred by the Roman Empire for crimes against the state and created a religion around him. How much of the Christian Jesus is true is hard to say, but his "miraculous works" is fiction, along with his supposed method of being born.
He verified His claims as the Son of God by the miracles that followed His ministry.
Miracles defined by a book to define that book?

Do you believe that Harry Potter is real? He preformed what normal people would consider to be miracles. His miracles are defined by a book. The book defines the character. So, is Harry Potter real?

If you say no, then what separates Harry Potter from Jesus?
If you say yes, then you have no basis in reality.
No. Because there is proof outside of the bible the proves that the man Jesus did exist and there was much said about Him in association with miracles.
Nobody is denying that Jesus (the man) existed. But his miracles are in question.

I could write a book about you as a person who flew on unicorns all around the world in a different universe. You would argue that those events happened because the book wrote about a real person (you), even though it is impossible for you do preform anything written in that book (so-called miracles).
The bible stated it, many journalist stated that Jesus + Miracles were often the talk. If multiple people told the cops that someone killed another someone, the cops may not be able to prove it but they would definitely investigate. I have heard enough talk about Jesus+ miracles + His claims of being God to do some investigating. Theres not gonna be a picture, a video or anything of the like. It will come down to faith but my faith is based off of collective knowledge and I'm swayed to believe His claims were true. For me not to believe Jesus is the son of God is tantamount that OJ wasn't the killer.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 14:46:55
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
Also what about all the people who never even *** heard of god they get a mulligan or just *** from birth?
The bible says that people know that God exist because creation is proof of Himself. It's a debated subject among christians of what happens to those who have never heard of Jesus. I personal believe God grades on the curve as He seems to have done in the old testament. The only problem with that is that man isn't mostly Good fighting the small urge to not be bad but inherently bad fighting to do good. So the necessity of the Gospel to be preached is vital.
Why do you use the bible for reference?

You know that the bible is written by man, not by God. If God is so great, why not use him as a primary source instead of a secondary source like the bible?
Because God has chosen to reveal Himself in Christ and Christ is vividly expressed in the scriptures.
Again, you are taking second-handed information and presenting it as fact.

Jesus claimed (either himself, which is highly unlikely, or by a third person, which is very likely) to be the son of God. You know what happens to people who claim to be the son of God? They get rounded up and sent to the funny farm.

What the Christian Bible did was take a figure from history who was martyred by the Roman Empire for crimes against the state and created a religion around him. How much of the Christian Jesus is true is hard to say, but his "miraculous works" is fiction, along with his supposed method of being born.
He verified His claims as the Son of God by the miracles that followed His ministry.
Miracles defined by a book to define that book?

Do you believe that Harry Potter is real? He preformed what normal people would consider to be miracles. His miracles are defined by a book. The book defines the character. So, is Harry Potter real?

If you say no, then what separates Harry Potter from Jesus?
If you say yes, then you have no basis in reality.
No. Because there is proof outside of the bible the proves that the man Jesus did exist and there was much said about Him in association with miracles.
Nobody is denying that Jesus (the man) existed. But his miracles are in question.

I could write a book about you as a person who flew on unicorns all around the world in a different universe. You would argue that those events happened because the book wrote about a real person (you), even though it is impossible for you do preform anything written in that book (so-called miracles).
Ok, if thats the case then I agree. People can question the miracles because they break with the laws of physics. I believe that they did occur because there were multiple, independent sources that all described the same occurrences. We've also found later books, Book of St. Thomas, Book of Mary Magdelene, etc... that also, in turn, described those same occurrences. I find it highly unlikely that people that spanned over that frame of time were able to concoct all the same stories independently and congruently. Is it possible? Yep. Is it probable? No more than the miracles themselves. Could I be wrong? Sure. Could you be wrong? Yep. Just have to do the research and decide.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 14:46:56
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ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Quote:
Apparently you fail to notice the one thing common in every religion there is: A creator is born from the mind of a man.

If religion never existed, there would be no concept of God, and without a concept of God, he would cease being God and will be known as an unknown. Since the unknown cannot be known without evidence of existence, the being formally known as God would not exist because by definition of the (now nonexistent religious text) concept of God requires a defined existence which never existed.

Ok, I have to stick up for Alexandero here and say you're begging the question in a real and serious way; saying God wouldn't exist without mortals to worship it is just starting from the premise that God is a work of fiction, unless you're relying on some silly D&D/Gaiman cosmology where the gods rely on human worship for power.

Plenty, if not all religions suppose divine forces that exist without the consent of mortals, and some (Sikhism is awesome about this) are explicit that God is indifferent to mortal worship; the worship is for the benefit of the mortals.
God wouldn't exist without mortals to create him. In other words, it isn't that a creator made man, it is that man made a creator.

Religion defines the illusion that a creator is responsible for any and all happenings in this world, which is a crutch from knowing how things really work in the world. Placing blame on an event instead of an action is man's greatest crutch in life.
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By Odin.Blazeoffury 2015-01-16 14:48:38
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Bloodrose said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
Also what about all the people who never even *** heard of god they get a mulligan or just *** from birth?
The bible says that people know that God exist because creation is proof of Himself. It's a debated subject among christians of what happens to those who have never heard of Jesus. I personal believe God grades on the curve as He seems to have done in the old testament. The only problem with that is that man isn't mostly Good fighting the small urge to not be bad but inherently bad fighting to do good. So the necessity of the Gospel to be preached is vital.
Why do you use the bible for reference?

You know that the bible is written by man, not by God. If God is so great, why not use him as a primary source instead of a secondary source like the bible?
Because God has chosen to reveal Himself in Christ and Christ is vividly expressed in the scriptures.
Again, you are taking second-handed information and presenting it as fact.

Jesus claimed (either himself, which is highly unlikely, or by a third person, which is very likely) to be the son of God. You know what happens to people who claim to be the son of God? They get rounded up and sent to the funny farm.

What the Christian Bible did was take a figure from history who was martyred by the Roman Empire for crimes against the state and created a religion around him. How much of the Christian Jesus is true is hard to say, but his "miraculous works" is fiction, along with his supposed method of being born.
He verified His claims as the Son of God by the miracles that followed His ministry.
Miracles defined by a book to define that book?

Do you believe that Harry Potter is real? He preformed what normal people would consider to be miracles. His miracles are defined by a book. The book defines the character. So, is Harry Potter real?

If you say no, then what separates Harry Potter from Jesus?
If you say yes, then you have no basis in reality.
No. Because there is proof outside of the bible the proves that the man Jesus did exist and there was much said about Him in association with miracles.
There is no verifiable proof that "Jesus Christ", as is said in the bible, written hundreds of years after his death, was real. There is, however, evidence that "Jesus Christ", was based off of a real person named Jeshua bon Joseph.
Look up a historian named Josephus who wrote about Jesus tho he wasnt a believer.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 14:48:49
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Bloodrose said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
Also what about all the people who never even *** heard of god they get a mulligan or just *** from birth?
The bible says that people know that God exist because creation is proof of Himself. It's a debated subject among christians of what happens to those who have never heard of Jesus. I personal believe God grades on the curve as He seems to have done in the old testament. The only problem with that is that man isn't mostly Good fighting the small urge to not be bad but inherently bad fighting to do good. So the necessity of the Gospel to be preached is vital.
Why do you use the bible for reference?

You know that the bible is written by man, not by God. If God is so great, why not use him as a primary source instead of a secondary source like the bible?
Because God has chosen to reveal Himself in Christ and Christ is vividly expressed in the scriptures.
Again, you are taking second-handed information and presenting it as fact.

Jesus claimed (either himself, which is highly unlikely, or by a third person, which is very likely) to be the son of God. You know what happens to people who claim to be the son of God? They get rounded up and sent to the funny farm.

What the Christian Bible did was take a figure from history who was martyred by the Roman Empire for crimes against the state and created a religion around him. How much of the Christian Jesus is true is hard to say, but his "miraculous works" is fiction, along with his supposed method of being born.
He verified His claims as the Son of God by the miracles that followed His ministry.
Miracles defined by a book to define that book?

Do you believe that Harry Potter is real? He preformed what normal people would consider to be miracles. His miracles are defined by a book. The book defines the character. So, is Harry Potter real?

If you say no, then what separates Harry Potter from Jesus?
If you say yes, then you have no basis in reality.
No. Because there is proof outside of the bible the proves that the man Jesus did exist and there was much said about Him in association with miracles.
There is no verifiable proof that "Jesus Christ", as is said in the bible, written hundreds of years after his death, was real. There is, however, evidence that "Jesus Christ", was based off of a real person named Jeshua bon Joseph.

This is wrong as well. You guys really need to do some more research on this. The gospels are dated to within a decade of Christs death.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 14:49:09
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Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
The bible stated it
How come that's your only answer you can provide?

"The bible said so, so it must be real!"

Again, if a book said so, then do you believe that Harry Potter is real?

Answer that.
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By Ramyrez 2015-01-16 14:49:24
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
killed by the Empire for being a thorn in their side.

I get it!
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 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 14:50:04
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
Come on King. We've been through this. If he actually exists, then he would exists regardless of religion, or our beliefs, or w/e. If God really exists and humans never did, he wouldn't cease to exist. He is either there or he isn't and it doesn't matter if we think he is or isnt.

If we go by your way of thinking. If god exist, something created it, if something created it, something created what created it and so on infinitely. So which god do you want to believe in?

Wrong. If something exists outside of the space-time continuum, which is where God would have to exist to create the Big Bang (This is where time began - There was no time before hand), then it needs no creator. Unless you exist within our space and time, you have no need for a beginning and end. It's comparing the beginning and end of a straight line and a circle.

So god over the afternoon finally quit the 5th dimension to reach his final form?
Why have you assumed he started in the 5th dimension?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 14:51:19
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Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
The bible stated it, many journalist stated that Jesus + Miracles were often the talk. If multiple people told the cops that someone killed another someone, the cops may not be able to prove it but they would definitely investigate. I have heard enough talk about Jesus+ miracles + His claims of being God to do some investigating. Theres not gonna be a picture, a video or anything of the like. It will come down to faith but my faith is based off of collective knowledge and I'm swayed to believe His claims were true. For me not to believe Jesus is the son of God is tantamount that OJ wasn't the killer.
Those journalists used the Bible as basis for their argument. Everyone who claimed that Jesus preformed these miracles would use the bible (the bible said so, so it must be true) as their argument.

Just because a book said so doesn't automatically make it true!
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By Odin.Blazeoffury 2015-01-16 14:51:46
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
The bible stated it
How come that's your only answer you can provide?

"The bible said so, so it must be real!"

Again, if a book said so, then do you believe that Harry Potter is real?

Answer that.
The bible also claims the the earth is a Sphere and that it spins on its own axis and dangles from nothing. The book of Job. Long before we knew it wasnt flat and that it truely did spin on its own axis and that it dangled from nothing.
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 14:51:56
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Quote:
Apparently you fail to notice the one thing common in every religion there is: A creator is born from the mind of a man.

If religion never existed, there would be no concept of God, and without a concept of God, he would cease being God and will be known as an unknown. Since the unknown cannot be known without evidence of existence, the being formally known as God would not exist because by definition of the (now nonexistent religious text) concept of God requires a defined existence which never existed.

Ok, I have to stick up for Alexandero here and say you're begging the question in a real and serious way; saying God wouldn't exist without mortals to worship it is just starting from the premise that God is a work of fiction, unless you're relying on some silly D&D/Gaiman cosmology where the gods rely on human worship for power.

Plenty, if not all religions suppose divine forces that exist without the consent of mortals, and some (Sikhism is awesome about this) are explicit that God is indifferent to mortal worship; the worship is for the benefit of the mortals.
God wouldn't exist without mortals to create him. In other words, it isn't that a creator made man, it is that man made a creator.

Religion defines the illusion that a creator is responsible for any and all happenings in this world, which is a crutch from knowing how things really work in the world. Placing blame on an event instead of an action is man's greatest crutch in life.

You're failing to understand the argument from a presupposed premise. The only reason you think he can't exist without man, is that you've first decided man created him. You're stuck in a circular argument.
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By Odin.Blazeoffury 2015-01-16 14:52:51
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
The bible stated it, many journalist stated that Jesus + Miracles were often the talk. If multiple people told the cops that someone killed another someone, the cops may not be able to prove it but they would definitely investigate. I have heard enough talk about Jesus+ miracles + His claims of being God to do some investigating. Theres not gonna be a picture, a video or anything of the like. It will come down to faith but my faith is based off of collective knowledge and I'm swayed to believe His claims were true. For me not to believe Jesus is the son of God is tantamount that OJ wasn't the killer.
Those journalists used the Bible as basis for their argument. Everyone who claimed that Jesus preformed these miracles would use the bible (the bible said so, so it must be true) as their argument.

Just because a book said so doesn't automatically make it true!
The journalist were either atheist or other.
 
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2015-01-16 14:54:33
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Quote:
Apparently you fail to notice the one thing common in every religion there is: A creator is born from the mind of a man.

If religion never existed, there would be no concept of God, and without a concept of God, he would cease being God and will be known as an unknown. Since the unknown cannot be known without evidence of existence, the being formally known as God would not exist because by definition of the (now nonexistent religious text) concept of God requires a defined existence which never existed.

Ok, I have to stick up for Alexandero here and say you're begging the question in a real and serious way; saying God wouldn't exist without mortals to worship it is just starting from the premise that God is a work of fiction, unless you're relying on some silly D&D/Gaiman cosmology where the gods rely on human worship for power.

Plenty, if not all religions suppose divine forces that exist without the consent of mortals, and some (Sikhism is awesome about this) are explicit that God is indifferent to mortal worship; the worship is for the benefit of the mortals.
God wouldn't exist without mortals to create him.

And again, you're begging the question. You are arguing from your conclusion. It's not helpful.

Your point was that all religions have a creator that springs from the mind of man. I am aware of no religion that actually says this. All of the religions out there that suppose God exists independently of mortals may be wrong, but you aren't offering anything here to support that conclusion.
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By Odin.Blazeoffury 2015-01-16 14:54:41
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Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
The bible stated it
How come that's your only answer you can provide?

"The bible said so, so it must be real!"

Again, if a book said so, then do you believe that Harry Potter is real?

Answer that.
The bible also claims the the earth is a Sphere and that it spins on its own axis and dangles from nothing. The book of Job. Long before we knew it wasnt flat and that it truely did spin on its own axis and that it dangled from nothing.
That's quite the scientific discovery for a 3500 year old book. (Job is believed to be the oldest book in the bible. The bible is broken up in other books within itself if anyone was unaware of this.)
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-16 14:55:11
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You can strongly disagree that ground morals are inherent, even in the face of over overwhelming evidence to the contrary all you like.

If, in fact morals such as killing people is wrong - why are there so many people who do it without remorse? Remorse comes from a feeling of empathy - understanding the other person.

It's learned behavior. Morals are subjective, and you don't learn about what morals you have, until you see the effects around you. You would have to have a conscious awareness of the world at large, at the time of your birth, to even contemplate such things, yet the world at the fingertips of an infant is extremely limited.

The concept of the "human heart", in this context that you are personally trying to pitch, is a man-made concept as well, and is often only used to equate one's idea of humanity to another person's view.

There are children who grow up believing that lying is good, and feel good doing so.

More still that believe they are better than others, simply by virtue of birth, and use it as a means to step all over others.

Yet, by your logic, because that is what they inherently believe from birth, that they can do no wrong. (that's the logic, not what you actually said)
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 14:56:08
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Asura.Alexandero said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Quote:
Apparently you fail to notice the one thing common in every religion there is: A creator is born from the mind of a man.

If religion never existed, there would be no concept of God, and without a concept of God, he would cease being God and will be known as an unknown. Since the unknown cannot be known without evidence of existence, the being formally known as God would not exist because by definition of the (now nonexistent religious text) concept of God requires a defined existence which never existed.

Ok, I have to stick up for Alexandero here and say you're begging the question in a real and serious way; saying God wouldn't exist without mortals to worship it is just starting from the premise that God is a work of fiction, unless you're relying on some silly D&D/Gaiman cosmology where the gods rely on human worship for power.

Plenty, if not all religions suppose divine forces that exist without the consent of mortals, and some (Sikhism is awesome about this) are explicit that God is indifferent to mortal worship; the worship is for the benefit of the mortals.
God wouldn't exist without mortals to create him. In other words, it isn't that a creator made man, it is that man made a creator.

Religion defines the illusion that a creator is responsible for any and all happenings in this world, which is a crutch from knowing how things really work in the world. Placing blame on an event instead of an action is man's greatest crutch in life.

You're failing to understand the argument from a presupposed premise. The only reason you think he can't exist without man, is that you've first decided man created him. You're stuck in a circular argument.
You are under the assumption that God existed prior to man. You also claim that God created man. How can a mythical being create something so flawed as man?

You can use the bible all you want, but there is evidence to point out that God did not exist prior to man. There is also evidence to point out that God did not create man (evolution) and that man, in his wisdom, created God to control the masses (historical context).
 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 14:56:14
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
Come on King. We've been through this. If he actually exists, then he would exists regardless of religion, or our beliefs, or w/e. If God really exists and humans never did, he wouldn't cease to exist. He is either there or he isn't and it doesn't matter if we think he is or isnt.

If we go by your way of thinking. If god exist, something created it, if something created it, something created what created it and so on infinitely. So which god do you want to believe in?

Wrong. If something exists outside of the space-time continuum, which is where God would have to exist to create the Big Bang (This is where time began - There was no time before hand), then it needs no creator. Unless you exist within our space and time, you have no need for a beginning and end. It's comparing the beginning and end of a straight line and a circle.

So god over the afternoon finally quit the 5th dimension to reach his final form?
Why have you assumed he started in the 5th dimension?

Why do you assume nothing created God? You said it yourself, if it exist something created it.

No, that isn't what I said. I said if something exists within our space time continuum then something created it. This doesn't and wouldnt apply to something existing outside of our space-time continuum. If there is no time, then there is no beginning, thus, you don't need a creator. infinite regression only works when time is present.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-16 14:57:02
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Asura.Alexandero said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Quote:
Apparently you fail to notice the one thing common in every religion there is: A creator is born from the mind of a man.

If religion never existed, there would be no concept of God, and without a concept of God, he would cease being God and will be known as an unknown. Since the unknown cannot be known without evidence of existence, the being formally known as God would not exist because by definition of the (now nonexistent religious text) concept of God requires a defined existence which never existed.

Ok, I have to stick up for Alexandero here and say you're begging the question in a real and serious way; saying God wouldn't exist without mortals to worship it is just starting from the premise that God is a work of fiction, unless you're relying on some silly D&D/Gaiman cosmology where the gods rely on human worship for power.

Plenty, if not all religions suppose divine forces that exist without the consent of mortals, and some (Sikhism is awesome about this) are explicit that God is indifferent to mortal worship; the worship is for the benefit of the mortals.
God wouldn't exist without mortals to create him. In other words, it isn't that a creator made man, it is that man made a creator.

Religion defines the illusion that a creator is responsible for any and all happenings in this world, which is a crutch from knowing how things really work in the world. Placing blame on an event instead of an action is man's greatest crutch in life.

You're failing to understand the argument from a presupposed premise. The only reason you think he can't exist without man, is that you've first decided man created him. You're stuck in a circular argument.

The argument typically in play isn't "does god exist?" but "does god XYZ exist?" and the latter is far easier to attack due to the inconsistencies of the source material (holy books) presented as definitive evidence.

Most atheists aren't going to touch the deist argument because few deists are out and about causing trouble or claiming their God has a stake in humanity. They're busy I dunno... living their lives without evangelizing.
[+]
 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-16 14:57:54
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Alexandero said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Quote:
Apparently you fail to notice the one thing common in every religion there is: A creator is born from the mind of a man.

If religion never existed, there would be no concept of God, and without a concept of God, he would cease being God and will be known as an unknown. Since the unknown cannot be known without evidence of existence, the being formally known as God would not exist because by definition of the (now nonexistent religious text) concept of God requires a defined existence which never existed.

Ok, I have to stick up for Alexandero here and say you're begging the question in a real and serious way; saying God wouldn't exist without mortals to worship it is just starting from the premise that God is a work of fiction, unless you're relying on some silly D&D/Gaiman cosmology where the gods rely on human worship for power.

Plenty, if not all religions suppose divine forces that exist without the consent of mortals, and some (Sikhism is awesome about this) are explicit that God is indifferent to mortal worship; the worship is for the benefit of the mortals.
God wouldn't exist without mortals to create him. In other words, it isn't that a creator made man, it is that man made a creator.

Religion defines the illusion that a creator is responsible for any and all happenings in this world, which is a crutch from knowing how things really work in the world. Placing blame on an event instead of an action is man's greatest crutch in life.

You're failing to understand the argument from a presupposed premise. The only reason you think he can't exist without man, is that you've first decided man created him. You're stuck in a circular argument.
You are under the assumption that God existed prior to man. You also claim that God created man. How can a mythical being create something so flawed as man?

You can use the bible all you want, but there is evidence to point out that God did not exist prior to man. There is also evidence to point out that God did not create man (evolution) and that man, in his wisdom, created God to control the masses (historical context).
Lol, I give up.
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By Odin.Blazeoffury 2015-01-16 14:57:55
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Bloodrose said: »
You can strongly disagree that ground morals are inherent, even in the face of over overwhelming evidence to the contrary all you like.

If, in fact morals such as killing people is wrong - why are there so many people who do it without remorse? Remorse comes from a feeling of empathy - understanding the other person.

It's learned behavior. Morals are subjective, and you don't learn about what morals you have, until you see the effects around you. You would have to have a conscious awareness of the world at large, at the time of your birth, to even contemplate such things, yet the world at the fingertips of an infant is extremely limited.

The concept of the "human heart", in this context that you are personally trying to pitch, is a man-made concept as well, and is often only used to equate one's idea of humanity to another person's view.

There are children who grow up believing that lying is good, and feel good doing so.

More still that believe they are better than others, simply by virtue of birth, and use it as a means to step all over others.

Yet, by your logic, because that is what they inherently believe from birth, that they can do no wrong. (that's the logic, not what you actually said)
I answered your first question in my original statement seared conscience. If you do wrong enough eventually conviction, guilt, remorse, it dissipates and is gone. Cartel hitmen were hitmen at 5 years old. It was a slow fade into the abyss.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-01-16 14:58:11
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I can accept someone believing in a sort of demiurge or even different dimensions, as long as they accept it's merely hypothetical and there's nothing to be adamant about. It's a possibility about something you don't know. It's fine I think.

But when someone takes the bible literally I lose any intellectual respect for them. It just means you can't even think. You're beyond any kind of help.

Then you have far too many people making a man-like god, which to me is just even a more obvious fallacy. Why should a deity look like humans? If it has a higher form of evolution it should have at the very least wings, jet propellers and laser beams. What god wouldn't want lasers?
But back to serious..if you wanna believe in a god I don't understand why you try to project humanity into it. That's just ego talking. Humans are egomaniacs and racist in a sense as they believe to be the ultimate form of existence.
[+]
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-16 14:58:40
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Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Blazeoffury said: »
The bible stated it
How come that's your only answer you can provide?

"The bible said so, so it must be real!"

Again, if a book said so, then do you believe that Harry Potter is real?

Answer that.
The bible also claims the the earth is a Sphere and that it spins on its own axis and dangles from nothing. The book of Job. Long before we knew it wasnt flat and that it truely did spin on its own axis and that it dangled from nothing.
That's quite the scientific discovery for a 3500 year old book. (Job is believed to be the oldest book in the bible. The bible is broken up in other books within itself if anyone was unaware of this.)
Quoting yourself to agree with yourself isn't helping matters any.

Instead, it begs to question if Blazeoffury and Alexandero are two different people....
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By Odin.Blazeoffury 2015-01-16 14:59:12
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Evolution is still a theory.
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