NQ Hauby Vs. Shura Togi For SAM

Neither, get a damn domaruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
and rock that ***!!

Actually imo -eva sucks on any piece of armor for soloing. Any SAM worth his salt knows that Seigan/Third Eye only has a chance of Third Eye staying up after the first initial physical attack is anticipated. Yes, in my own experience it does seem to stay up 2-3 times total with each cast, but it's not a given amount of shadows each time like Utsu. On top of that, Third Eye doesn't absorb any magical attacks directed towards you, AOE magic excluded of course. To rely solely on Seigan/Third Eye to save you when soloing in these situations especially when equipped with a body piece with -20 EVA is fail. And if you're going to be macroing in Arhat's, then you're not really soloing in a Hauby now are you?

Oh noes....not the DOOOOMMMMMMAAAARRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!

This is wrong. SAM's big 3 ws's are 75% STR mod, it is also the only stat mod for those ws's, period. That being said:

8str > 5str

If you want to do more dmg and don't have an Osode, then the Hachiman body is quite acceptable to WS in and will exceed the dmg output of Haub.

This is wrong. Haubergeon will be better for every WS on SAM, including the YGK. And anyone that think STR is the ONLY mod for WSs obviously hasn't played the field enough to know much about them. The +10 Attack will benefit all three (Gekko moreso than the other two) more than the extra 3 STR will, not to mention more ACC on Haubergeon means you don't miss as often. It's win-win.

I'd ws in Hauby before I ever did a ws in Domaru, the atk is enough justification for me. The only time I'd consider Domaru for ws is with sidewinder pre-osode.

Just like when you have Utsusemi up, it doesn't matter how much EVA you have because it will miss the next 3-4 attacks anyway? Lol.
/sarcasm

Sam wont dodge anything worthwhile anyway

And even then, if you're a serious SAM/RNG you'll have a Kyudogi anyway which will be better also.

what this guy said towards the end, i am actually kind of debating using my togi from mnk as a TP piece for nin just because i despise -evasion, opinions?

I do have HQ SH and haub i am more than able to tank in either but I see no real reason for much more +eva as i do attack+ in a TP body at this point so SH is kinda meh.

HQ hauby is a badass WS piece still, yes thats true but if im fighting low VT's i think i'd rather TP in AF for DW+ however birds are torment and im a 1hander who cant use food so the acc+ is more than welcome. Kind of leaving me with only 1 real DD TP set option -> togi or suck it up will i merit evasion more and use haub+1 for TP and WS?

Seeing as how a SAM has B+ EVA and A- Parry, and moderately high AGI to back that up, I daresay SAM is one of the top 5 evasive jobs in the game (1.THF, 2.NIN, 3.DNC, 4.MNK, 5.SAM)

Then you'd be wearing a body with HP-50. How is that any better? Plus you're gimping your damage.

I can get 280 Eva skill and nice + on my SAM, but idc what ur evasion is, being top 5 dont mean much lol, id put Sam over Mnk anyway w/ same skill but they can parry and have more agi(im fairly certain), Your not going to dodge VT~IT's enough anyway(What i meant by worthwhile), T and below, the Eva is freakin awesome though.

Stick to Hauby+1, the likely hood of you keeping hate 100% of the time even with Yonin is very unlikely. Unless your DD suck you're going to need all the damage you can get. The -50 hp is just as much of a downfall as the 20 eva. That's my opinion at least.

Granted mnk can counter, so lets just Tie them for 4th, but yea, SAM eva is nice, but only really for solo

No way, MNK has guard and counter which is more than SAM has. He had the order right.

I was mainly talking pure EVA, but if you consider parry in there too, then I counter with:


Seriously. 85% Counterstance is NOT a joke.

Ok, Guarding is not even close to evading, since Parry and evade = 0 dmg Guard = Some dmg, i did add counter though

Pure eva, Sam wins seeing as they have equal skill but SAM has a lot more Agi, a gap of around 5 at 75,

and i beat that chigoe Sam/Mnk, it was so much fun lol, countered my *** off

That really depends, if you guard a ws it will do 0 dmg(msg will say it missed). While on normal hits it's only a damage reduction and will not prevent spell interuption it's the last defense. Counter is done before guard is even considered, guard isn't a lot of use, it's just a little icing on the cake.

Never seen guard proc on a WS thats interesting, Counter is nice, Retaliation is awesome too cuz u get TP :O, and w/ a 2hand weapon thats a bunch of extra TP

Comparing Sam/Mnk to Mnk saying you get counter is fail. Mnk with counterstance and af2 boots macroed in can counter much much more than Sam/Mnk ever will.

Seigan Third Eye + Native Counter = More Counter then i had before.

Yeah it happens, just rarely. Need at least 200 guard to start getting occasional guards. I've had 3 occasions where I recieved a guard skill up after a proc on ws.

Even if you wear af2 pants when you do Seigan + Third Eye it really can't compare to true counter. Your rate of counter will never reach what a Mnk can (Mnk's depends a lot on ACC though) and your's isn't going to last 100% of the time. Mnk can keep counterstance up at all times, Third Eye is just too random, I've had times with 8 anticipates in a row and many more where after only the first one it wore (kinda bs, imo you should get a min of 2 with Seigan up but w/e).

Edit: Sorry for the off-topic stuff..

/em fakes a parse

Results of fake parse that was a waste of time: Hauby(+1) > Togi/Domaru

I cry every time.

Notice where it says Modifiers: STR:75%

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tachi:_Kasha

People don't WS in Osode (over Haub) because Osode has +attack or +accuracy on it. They do it for the STR mod.

This is an excerpt not written by me, but I think it rounds up my point nicely:

With the advent of the FotM SAM, this piece (Hachiman Domaru) has sort of become a rallying point for identifying SAMs who don't know what they're doing. It's typically cheap and looks kind of neat, but it's massively inferior to Haubergeon for TPing, so bad SAMs who TP in this tend to stand out like sore thumbs.

However, I think the Hachiman Domaru itself kind of gets a bad rap that it doesn't totally deserve, thanks to this stigma. It's true that it's only a step above being naked while TPing, but it's actually comparable to Haubergeon for WS, and in some early 75 builds, wildly superior. Let me explain.

To start with, the offensive stats during a WS are comparable. -2 accuracy is not going to completely break you with the Y/G/K accuracy bonus, and the 10 attack of Haubergeon is generally understood to translate into less damage on those WSes than the 3 more STR of the Domaru. So that alone makes Domaru defensible as a WS piece, but the real strength is the Store TP.

I said this was a superior WS piece in "early" builds, because the necessity of a 6-hit Store TP build means SAMs don't really get a ton of gear flexibility until they get a Rajas Ring. Before Rajas, you need several pieces of Hachi gear to cover the gap, and for most people not using Shinimusha Haidate, this will mean full-timing Hachi Hands and Feet and Chiv Chain with 5/5 Store TP Merits.

What Domaru does is let you pull one of those pieces out during a WS, namely the gloves. Considering Pallas Bracers are extremely cheap and Alkys are no longer so expensive as to be unattainable, Haciman Domaru ultimately means somewhere between a +8 and +11 Strength bonus for a Rajas-less SAM. Since SAM WSing is basically all about stacking as much STR as possible, this is pretty significant.

So yeah. Domaru's a great starter WS piece for the SAM who just hit 75 and is starting to expand his WS gearswaps. It remains a TERRIBLE TP piece and it kind of falls by the wayside once you get a Rajas Ring, but it doesn't deserve the scorn heaped upon it.

Okay stop focusing on weapon skills. Start thinking about skill-chaining. Weapon skills aren't important for samurai. Skill-chains are. People don't understand just how effect skill-chains can be. Specifically level 3 skill-chains. Which becomes far more effective when finishing a pre-existing chain. Ideally you want a chain to be as long as possible. This is done by focusing mostly on level 1 skill-chains for up till near the end, then finishing w/ one or two level 2 skill-chains and finally a level 3 to finish it off. This is the logical approach since there are far more weapon skills w/ level 1 attributes then level 2.

A samurai who just pointlessly weapon-skills just to weapon-skill, w/o considering the added benefit of a chain, needs to take some time and experiment w/ skill-chains.

A lot of the "bad rep" Domaru gets is from before people knew about the attack boost/cap/whatever for the "big three" Great Katana WS, and were still under the impression that stacking +attack would help them in the way it would help most other WS. Now that people have a better understanding of those WS, and that sTP and X-hit builds are more commonly known about and used by non-samurai, we know that Smilo+1 and Domaru aren't actually as bad as people used to think. And I suppose there's always the fear people have that they see a Samurai running around in a Domaru, and worry that they're gonna TP in it.