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15 questions for the evolutionists of AH.com
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-22 10:06:30
As someone partly descended from those people living in the Americas and thus never got the fax from the one true God about Eurasia and the oncoming calamity that'd befall, enslave and to this day besmirch my people you can keep your monotheism and your afterlife promises.
Apparently God was too busy writing passages about gays, signing off on Crusades and keeping women chaste to drop some Bibles on the New World.
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Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-09-22 10:07:19
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »Wars have actually been fought over resources more than anything else.
Why is there so much ignorance on the FFXIAH forums?
Don't worry about it. In previous threads, it's been proven that some of the more evangelical leaning have no formal introduction to theological education at the base level within Christianity. Not saying everyone, just a few. Even a handful of the atheists here are so stubborn that they haven't expanded into any other realm of religion just for the sake of exploration.
You can ask Bible beaters about their interpretation of the Eucharist to get a good idea of their background. No Confirmation, no Bar/Bat Mitzvah as a religious "coming of age". (BTW, what's Islam's equivalent?) Personally, I find it more respectable to have a more well-rounded idea of the circumstances than planting your feet in defiance.
Don't worry. You're fine.
Not a creationist. Just tossing that out there...
By Ramyrez 2014-09-22 10:07:52
Quote: Resources and Power.
Religion is just another man-made tool for controlling resources and power.
What's a better resource or power source than people? They can get you all the other resources as long as they believe hard enough in your message.
Edit: Dammit. I told myself I was only going to respond with pictures. Ah well.
Have another Cthulhu Mythos image for the *** of it.
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Fenrir.Mariane
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 1766
By Fenrir.Mariane 2014-09-22 10:10:50
Religion is just another man-made tool for controlling resources and power.
What's a better resource or power source than people? They can get you all the other resources as long as they believe hard enough in your message.
Whole video game series were made around that concept.
Age of Empires came to my mind as I read your post.
Edit: (I meant "resources and power") before people misread me.
Edit2: I only replied to this thread because the thought of people believing in "creationism" as an absolute truth irritates me greatly.
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-22 10:16:26
Quote: Whole video game series were made around that concept.
Seriously, no matter where my ancestors have been this country keeps declaring war on us. Why England, why?????
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Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
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Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-22 10:18:19
Almost looks like a dating sim in royal theme.
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Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-09-22 10:19:42
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Quote: Whole video game series were made around that concept.

WHAT? Errr...That's not Victoria. :/
300 years off and a Tudor is definitely not Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Hannover-German-German-German.
By Ramyrez 2014-09-22 10:19:59
Asura.Refreshazure said: »Religion is just another man-made tool for controlling resources and power.
What's a better resource or power source than people? They can get you all the other resources as long as they believe hard enough in your message.
Whole video game series were made around that concept.
Age of Empires came to my mind as I read your post.
Edit: (I meant "resources and power") before people misread me.
Edit2: I only replied to this thread because the thought of people believing in "creationism" as an absolute truth irritates me greatly.
Welcome to the rational human being club.
be careful outside of FFXI AH 50% of Americans are creationist in the United States.
Number seems high. At least depending how broadly or narrowly you define "creationist".
If you broaden it so far as to say "science as we understand it is largely correct, but God made it happen that way", is it still creationism? Or are we only defining it as "God made people whole, as-is, ready to go"?
The former I'd see up to 50% or more. The later I can't see as a huge number, though the number is sadly growing.
"Young Earth" nonsense really is a fairly new movement. The Vatican acknowledges the Old Testament and the story of Creation as allegory and has for many years. I realize they don't speak for all Christians, but when you stop and consider how long they've been running the show, and that the creationists are largely zealous sects of modern American protestantism...
50% seems far, far too high.
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-22 10:21:41
WHAT? Errr...That's not Victoria. :/
It's a shoop, that's Elizabeth I in the game.
Jeez Zah, what a nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd.
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By fonewear 2014-09-22 10:26:41
See the thing is we have had this discussion about 50,000 times and we are just repeating the same thing over and over.
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Fenrir.Mariane
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 1766
By Fenrir.Mariane 2014-09-22 10:27:03
Asura.Refreshazure said: »Welcome to the rational human being club.
be careful outside of FFXI AH 50% of Americans are creationist in the United States.
I'm also a bit jaded with the Anglican church because it was somehow one of the reasons our family "split". This country used to be mostly Christian but now Anglican has been growing consistently in influence. One of the President candidates (Marina Silva) has a strong Anglican background and she has real chances of winning.
Anyway it's all about the tithe. It's why they try to seize control over the life of their believers. So they can absorb more of their resources over a long period of time.
I am well aware of how it is on U.S. with the creationism movements on Schools and such. Sometimes TV here shows it on the TV with a tone of sarcasm that "creationism is winning in USA".
This world sure is complex. You probably noticed that besides my family being Christian I am more of atheist myself. I do respect religion as it's also a cultural manifestation. I just don't want any participation on it.
By Nazrious 2014-09-22 10:27:53
Ever wonder why history books lack wars involving Christians and Buddhist until far into the modern age.
Look at a map it does not make logistical sense when there are so many closer people to hate and war with. Religion is not the cause of war.
People next to each other will grow to hate each other. Place Atheist and other Atheist side by side and they would war over the true color of rice.
People need no reason to war, it just helps the rulers spur on the enslaved.
BTW Haliburton really loves America, who says money can't buy love.
Long live the corporation, down with the citizen.
This thread neads more Atheistic Islamic Jewish Jesus love.
He thinks God does not exist therefore he exists, BOOM!
The true quote goes along the lines of "I doubt therefore, I am."
People need to doubt and think rather than believe.
Belief is the mind Killer. Thats right I went Dune on your ***.
Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-09-22 10:28:26
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »WHAT? Errr...That's not Victoria. :/
It's a shoop, that's Elizabeth I in the game.
Jeez Zah, what a nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd.
Hey! Why do you think I like GoT?
You got your Medicis, Potozis (sp?), Plantagenet, Tudors, etc. The gang is all here!
By Ramyrez 2014-09-22 10:29:34
See the thing is we have had this discussion about 50,000 times and we are just repeating the same thing over and over.
Says the guy who keeps using "Feminism" and "The Huffington Post" as a punch line repeatedly.
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By fonewear 2014-09-22 10:32:15
Not always sometimes it is global warming. Gay fascism Republicans Muslims and so on. Taking anything serious on this site is bad for your health.
If I wanted a serious discussion I'd go to the serious discussion forums.
By Ramyrez 2014-09-22 10:32:17
Quote: People next to each other will grow to hatejealous of each other's things.
Fixed that.
Quote: Belief is the mind Killer
Fear is the mind killer.
Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-09-22 10:32:44
Number seems high. At least depending how broadly or narrowly you define "creationist".
If you broaden it so far as to say "science as we understand it is largely correct, but God made it happen that way", is it still creationism? Or are we only defining it as "God made people whole, as-is, ready to go"?
The former I'd see up to 50% or more. The later I can't see as a huge number, though the number is sadly growing.
"Young Earth" nonsense really is a fairly new movement. The Vatican acknowledges the Old Testament and the story of Creation as allegory and has for many years. I realize they don't speak for all Christians, but when you stop and consider how long they've been running the show, and that the creationists are largely zealous sects of modern American protestantism...
50% seems far, far too high.
Here is a historic sampling from Gallop on creationism, evolution, and intelligent design polls.
How young or old a movement is doesn't really have much bearing (and it started after WWI). Creationists are very vocal and when you can infiltrate and influence education children have no frame of reference for something different. Especially if 'intellectuals' are demonized and you send your children to religious colleges or only allow a religious social structure.
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By Nazrious 2014-09-22 10:35:34
See the thing is we have had this discussion about 50,000 times and we are just repeating the same thing over and over.
Says the guy who keeps using "Feminism" and "The Huffington Post" as a punch line repeatedly.
Whats wrong with Feminism?
I love women and I'm all for them existing and having the right to be women. Otherwise it would just be a bunch of men sitting around talking about silly things like evolution and creationism as absolutes.
By fonewear 2014-09-22 10:36:36
When I say feminism I'm talking about the fringe the crazed ones that take it too far.
By Ramyrez 2014-09-22 10:36:54
Quote: How young or old a movement is doesn't really have much bearing. Creationists are very vocal and when you can infiltrate and influence education children have no frame of reference for something different. Especially if 'intellectuals' are demonized and you send your children to religious colleges or only allow a religious social structure.
I'm not doubting this, I'm just saying that it's not like vaguely just saying "Christianity" or "Muslim/Islam" or w/e. It's a very specific subset of people. In this case, it's like a special idiot's club within Protestantism.
I'm just saying that how broadly you define creationism -- and how fervently those people classifying themselves as such try to push it -- matters.
C'mon. This is me. I'm not going to defend religion just because I feel like it. I just think the 50% number is overstated.
Or maybe I'm in denial, I'm not sure which.
By Nazrious 2014-09-22 10:39:34
Quote: People next to each other will grow to hatejealous of each other's things.
Fixed that.
Quote: Belief is the mind Killer
Fear is the mind killer.
You fixed nothing. Jelousy does not put a gun in the hand of a 9 year old and force him to kill, hate does, its isn't always about things more often its about control and power. One forcing another to follow their demands.
"Fear is the Mind killer" is what paul thinks when being tested but I wrote "Belief is the mind Killer."
It was to make a point...
/woosh.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-09-22 10:39:37
Asura.Refreshazure said: »well Kooljack ran off Six pages ago
I wonder if he killed himself and became Miss Argentina....
Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-09-22 10:40:26
Quote: How young or old a movement is doesn't really have much bearing. Creationists are very vocal and when you can infiltrate and influence education children have no frame of reference for something different. Especially if 'intellectuals' are demonized and you send your children to religious colleges or only allow a religious social structure.
I'm not doubting this, I'm just saying that it's not like vaguely just saying "Christianity" or "Muslim/Islam" or w/e. It's a very specific subset of people. In this case, it's like a special idiot's club within Protestantism.
I'm just saying that how broadly you define creationism -- and how fervently those people classifying themselves as such try to push it -- matters.
C'mon. This is me. I'm not going to defend religion just because I feel like it. I just think the 50% number is overstated.
Or maybe I'm in denial, I'm not sure which. Oh, I didn't post link.
Sorry!
http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/Evolution-Creationism-Intelligent-Design.aspx
Also, yeah, it doesn't ask you how you identify but what you think is true.
Edit:
Also, not saying 50% is correct number. Just providing link on past polls and opinion on how a movement that's been around a few decades can get intertwined pretty quickly
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By Ramyrez 2014-09-22 10:40:28
See the thing is we have had this discussion about 50,000 times and we are just repeating the same thing over and over.
Says the guy who keeps using "Feminism" and "The Huffington Post" as a punch line repeatedly.
Whats wrong with Feminism?
I love women and I'm all for them existing and having the right to be women. Otherwise it would just be a bunch of men sitting around talking about silly things like evolution and creationism as absolutes.
Instead we have men and women in the discussion! Yays!
But really, yeah. When he says it, he's talking about extreme feminists, and most of the time it's a facetious response on top of that.
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By fonewear 2014-09-22 10:43:19
There are women on the internet...they just pretend to be men. Or vice versa.
By Ramyrez 2014-09-22 10:45:43
Quote: People next to each other will grow to hatejealous of each other's things.
Fixed that.
Quote: Belief is the mind Killer
Fear is the mind killer.
You fixed nothing. Jelousy does not put a gun in the hand of a 9 year old and force him to kill, hate does, its isn't always about things more often its about control and power. One forcing another to follow their demands.
Control, power, resources, land, whatever you want to call it. Religion is a means to control people in order to thereby control more resources.
You stated that people live next to each other and that inheirantly causes hate because apparently you seem to think that people just can't live in peace and will war over anything.
You're wrong.
Quote: "Fear is the Mind killer" is what paul thinks when being tested but I wrote "Belief is the mind Killer."
It was to make a point...
/woosh.
There was no "whoosh". Your ad-libbed a book quote. Changes the meaning of the quote. There may be some overlap in the idea you were trying to express and the point of the quote, but still. Doesn't work there. At least in my mind.
By Nazrious 2014-09-22 10:46:00
See the thing is we have had this discussion about 50,000 times and we are just repeating the same thing over and over.
Says the guy who keeps using "Feminism" and "The Huffington Post" as a punch line repeatedly.
Whats wrong with Feminism?
I love women and I'm all for them existing and having the right to be women. Otherwise it would just be a bunch of men sitting around talking about silly things like evolution and creationism as absolutes.
Instead we have men and women in the discussion! Yays!
But really, yeah. When he says it, he's talking about extreme feminists, and most of the time it's a facetious response on top of that.
/woosh...
I think some people need to go worship in the temple of sarcasm and mocking.
Anyway anyone can argue anything doesn't mean they are right or wrong.
"de asini umbra disceptare"
1.) How did life originate? Evolutionist Professor Paul Davies admitted, “Nobody knows how a mixture of lifeless chemicals spontaneously organized themselves into the first living cell.”1 Andrew Knoll, professor of biology, Harvard, said, “we don’t really know how life originated on this planet”.2 A minimal cell needs several hundred proteins. Even if every atom in the universe were an experiment with all the correct amino acids present for every possible molecular vibration in the supposed evolutionary age of the universe, not even one average-sized functional protein would form. So how did life with hundreds of proteins originate just by chemistry without intelligent design?
2.) How did the DNA code originate? The code is a sophisticated language system with letters and words where the meaning of the words is unrelated to the chemical properties of the letters—just as the information on this page is not a product of the chemical properties of the ink (or pixels on a screen). What other coding system has existed without intelligent design? How did the DNA coding system arise without it being created?
3.) How could mutations—accidental copying mistakes (DNA ‘letters’ exchanged, deleted or added, genes duplicated, chromosome inversions, etc.)—create the huge volumes of information in the DNA of living things? How could such errors create 3 billion letters of DNA information to change a microbe into a microbiologist? There is information for how to make proteins but also for controlling their use—much like a cookbook contains the ingredients as well as the instructions for how and when to use them. One without the other is useless. See: Meta-information: An impossible conundrum for evolution. Mutations are known for their destructive effects, including over 1,000 human diseases such as hemophilia. Rarely are they even helpful. But how can scrambling existing DNA information create a new biochemical pathway or nano-machines with many components, to make ‘goo-to-you’ evolution possible? E.g., How did a 32-component rotary motor like ATP synthase (which produces the energy currency, ATP, for all life), or robots like kinesin (a ‘postman’ delivering parcels inside cells) originate?
4.) Why is natural selection, a principle recognized by creationists, taught as ‘evolution’, as if it explains the origin of the diversity of life? By definition it is a selective process (selecting from already existing information), so is not a creative process. It might explain the survival of the fittest (why certain genes benefit creatures more in certain environments), but not the arrival of the fittest (where the genes and creatures came from in the first place). The death of individuals not adapted to an environment and the survival of those that are suited does not explain the origin of the traits that make an organism adapted to an environment. E.g., how do minor back-and-forth variations in finch beaks explain the origin of beaks or finches? How does natural selection explain goo-to-you evolution?
5.) How did new biochemical pathways, which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence, originate? (This video simply explains the concept of a short biochemical pathway.) Every pathway and nano-machine requires multiple protein/enzyme components to work. How did lucky accidents create even one of the components, let alone 10 or 20 or 30 at the same time, often in a necessary programmed sequence. Evolutionary biochemist Franklin Harold wrote, “we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations.”3
6.) Living things look like they were designed, so how do evolutionists know that they were not designed? Richard Dawkins wrote, “biology is the study of complicated things that have the appearance of having been designed with a purpose.”4 Francis Crick, the co-discoverer of the double helix structure of DNA, wrote, “Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed, but rather evolved.”5 The problem for evolutionists is that living things show too much design. Who objects when an archaeologist says that pottery points to human design? Yet if someone attributes the design in living things to a designer, that is not acceptable. Why should science be restricted to naturalistic causes rather than logical causes?
7.) How did multi-cellular life originate? How did cells adapted to individual survival ‘learn’ to cooperate and specialize (including undergoing programmed cell death) to create complex plants and animals?
8.) How did sex originate? Asexual reproduction gives up to twice as much reproductive success (‘fitness’) for the same resources as sexual reproduction, so how could the latter ever gain enough advantage to be selected? And how could mere physics and chemistry invent the complementary apparatuses needed at the same time (non-intelligent processes cannot plan for future coordination of male and female organs).
9.) Why are the (expected) countless millions of transitional fossils missing? Darwin noted the problem and it still remains. The evolutionary family trees in textbooks are based on imagination, not fossil evidence. Famous Harvard paleontologist (and evolutionist), Stephen Jay Gould, wrote, “The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology”.6 Other evolutionist fossil experts also acknowledge the problem.
10.) How do ‘living fossils’ remain unchanged over supposed hundreds of millions of years, if evolution has changed worms into humans in the same time frame? Professor Gould wrote, “the maintenance of stability within species must be considered as a major evolutionary problem.”7
11.) How did blind chemistry create mind/ intelligence, meaning, altruism and morality? If everything evolved, and we invented God, as per evolutionary teaching, what purpose or meaning is there to human life? Should students be learning nihilism (life is meaningless) in science classes?
12.) Why is evolutionary ‘just-so’ story-telling tolerated? Evolutionists often use flexible story-telling to ‘explain’ observations contrary to evolutionary theory. NAS(USA) member Dr Philip Skell wrote, “Darwinian explanations for such things are often too supple: Natural selection makes humans self-centered and aggressive—except when it makes them altruistic and peaceable. Or natural selection produces virile men who eagerly spread their seed—except when it prefers men who are faithful protectors and providers. When an explanation is so supple that it can explain any behavior, it is difficult to test it experimentally, much less use it as a catalyst for scientific discovery.”8
13.) Where are the scientific breakthroughs due to evolution? Dr Marc Kirschner, chair of the Department of Systems Biology, Harvard Medical School, stated: “In fact, over the last 100 years, almost all of biology has proceeded independent of evolution, except evolutionary biology itself. Molecular biology, biochemistry, physiology, have not taken evolution into account at all.”9 Dr Skell wrote, “It is our knowledge of how these organisms actually operate, not speculations about how they may have arisen millions of years ago, that is essential to doctors, veterinarians, farmers … .”10 Evolution actually hinders medical discovery.11 Then why do schools and universities teach evolution so dogmatically, stealing time from experimental biology that so benefits humankind?
14.) Science involves experimenting to figure out how things work; how they operate. Why is evolution, a theory about history, taught as if it is the same as this operational science? You cannot do experiments, or even observe what happened, in the past. Asked if evolution has been observed, Richard Dawkins said, “Evolution has been observed. It’s just that it hasn’t been observed while it’s happening.”12
15.) Why is a fundamentally religious idea, a dogmatic belief system that fails to explain the evidence, taught in science classes? Karl Popper, famous philosopher of science, said “Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical [religious] research programme ….”13 Michael Ruse, evolutionist science philosopher admitted, “Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.”14 If “you can’t teach religion in science classes”, why is evolution taught?
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