California Debates 'yes Means Yes' Sex Assault Law

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California debates 'yes means yes' sex assault law
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 10:56:18
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Would you rob a drunk person of their wallet? Even if the cash is spilling out of it?

I already tried this with the phone thing. The answer is apparently "yes", or at least, "No, but if someone did it, it's the victim's fault for making it available".
How about driving drunk?

You know that you are intoxicated when you get behind the wheel, like how a woman knows that they are going out to attract a few drinks for free by dressing like they are.

Then if/when the drunk driver hits a tree/car/person and gets permanently disabled....are you going to blame the drunk driver at all for putting themselves in that situation?

Cmon, really? Driving Drunk?

The reason driving drunk is illegal is because you can hurt, maim or kill other people. Dressing any way you see fit isn't an invitation for people to rape you or for others to say 'you deserved it.'

You're doing a horrible job of trying to justify rape. Just as people shouldn't hit eachother male or female, no one should be putting their hands on a woman or forcing sex upon them because they're dressed a certain way.

For the record, the prostitute example is silly. Both parties know this is pay to play and the provocative dress is just to facilitate the transaction. Some prostitutes just dress normally.
Again, you missed the point.

As I have said before, rape is rape. But accusing people of rape when you willingly allow yourself, and even pursued the notion of sex, that's what I'm talking about.

Let me ask you this: Do you think that all women are innocent?

Paged: Well, I can't really do any pics on this post to fit the theme, so here's some kittens to lighten the mood.





 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 10:58:18
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Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Seriously? What the Hell is wrong with some of you? You act like gals being ***faced is the normative of rape, and justify by saying that they need to learn how to conduct themselves? You learn. It's a crash course but you learn.

Stay in groups and don't accept drinks from strangers. If a guy is relentlessly bothering you and you have a guy-pal around, plop down beside the guy-pal, so maybe they'll get the damn message. If just with gals, stay in twos to lose the annoying ones and reconvene at another table or area.

Also, would you prefer every girl wear a garbage bag? Women don't choose their clothes to make you feel good, ***!

Casting blame on one gender or the other is wrong, because there's scumbags within both genders. Jesus!

I don't think it's necessary to call Jesus a scumbag. I mean, yeah he's a guy, but...

*ducks*
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 11:00:10
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Define "dress like a tramp".
Women who looks like their sole profession is to spread their legs and take it.

Doesn't matter if they are a prostitute or not, if they dress like you want to have sex, then don't complain when you do.

(again, rape drugs and actual rape excluded from the above statement. This disclaimer is for those who get their panties in a twist of you don't put this disclaimer in every post...)
Dress like yuo want to have sex? lmao...

Yes judge... the person was clearly dressed like they wanted to have sex so I just gave em what they wanted you know even though they told me they didn't want it or were unconscious but I could tell they wanted it for real so its cool...
So, to you rape means having sex, even if they want it while intoxicated.

I won't tell you how many times I have driven drunk women to their homes and they wanted to hump my lights out because of it. So, I guess those times that I took them on their offer, according to you, I "raped" them.

I don't think anyone -- or at least, I'm not -- considering drunken consensual sex rape. It's the passed out/near catatoinic/unable to intervein or stop you if they wanted to bit that we're talking about.

Drunken consensual sex is like 3/4 of the sex in this country outside of wedlock and probably 1/2 of it within!

Edit: That is to say, just because you regret having sex with someone doesn't mean they raped you. However, if you did not say or given other adequate implication of "yes", then...yeah. That's rape.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 11:00:12
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
How about driving drunk?

You know that you are intoxicated when you get behind the wheel, like how a woman knows that they are going out to attract a few drinks for free by dressing like they are.

Then if/when the drunk driver hits a tree/car/person and gets permanently disabled....are you going to blame the drunk driver at all for putting themselves in that situation?

I understand your point, I think there's still a fine difference between these 2 situations. In one case you are the cause of the issue (Drinking/Driving), but on the other case the cause is someone else abusing of your state.

It's still a fair comparison and people should definitely be smarter when drinking.
It's a better comparison than the other two.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 11:01:13
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Drunken consensual sex is like 3/4 of the sex in this country outside of wedlock and probably 1/2 of it within!
The issue is, a lot of the false accusations are associated with drunken consensual sex. Didn't say all, just a lot.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-08-11 11:02:54
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I never said rape wasn't rape, I'm advocating social consequences not legal consequences. I've said multiple times that I'm completely in favor of prosecution, and anything that helps it get through the court system quicker and more reliably.
Furthermore, women should be able to dress in whatever they like without consequence, I'm not supporting any argument regarding attire.

However, when a person willingly drinks a large amount of alcohol, and is subsequently trying to have sex.. today's laws essentially make the other person responsible for ensuring her sobriety and fending off any advances. People binge drink, people use party drugs, and people certainly put themselves into irresponsible situations frequently.

If you're too drunk to drive and you're still having drinks and flirting with a guy, that's a situation you put yourself in. If you willingly *** the guy, why is it his responsibility to do a sobriety check and decide whether you're just enjoying your buzz or you're making an irresponsible decision? This is the woman's fault as far as I'm concerned. The man should be socially liable for his actions, but not legally. The woman should be socially liable for her actions, and have no legal case.

If you pop some molly and go to a club, then wake up with someone after willingly *** them, they didn't rape you. You made bad decisions. You are socially liable.

If you drink until you black out, and someone decides to do things to your body while you're unconscious, that's rape. The rapist is legally and socially liable. The victim is socially liable for her actions, but should have a strong legal case.

Say someone slips a drug into your drink in a seemingly safe environment, when you're drinking responsibly, then rapes you. In that case, the rapist would be legally and socially liable. The victim would hold minimal-no social liability, and should have a strong legal case.

tldr; (in my opinion)
-If you willingly have sex with someone while intoxicated due to drugs you willingly consumed, it should in no way be a crime on their behalf.
-If you get raped due to actions that were blatantly irresponsible on your part, the rapist should suffer to the full penalty of the law, but I can still call you a tramp and dump you.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 11:08:35
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People like to argue just for the sake of arguing here.

They have to twist your words around to say "you are defending rapists" or some other BS like that...
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By Carbuncle.Bukadan 2014-08-11 11:09:21
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underlying thing that drive opinions hinder a true contructive conversation about topics like this. an example of this would be someone who is fat and ugly would say "i hate the beach, its full of stuck up snobs trying to show off" (ive never heard that, just an example lol) when they REALLY mean they dont like the beach because theyre fat and ugly and dont have the confidence to appreciate it for what it is. i mean any outside stimuli can create in inaccurate temporary or permanent opinion theyll tell you. its the same way for positive opinions. youll never see an ugly person defending the actions of an attractive one, and youll never hear that the only reason is just that. in the end theyll go so far as to say that you'd be an *** for even suggesting that was the case, because there is a chance that they themselves arent aware of or arent willing to aknowledge this.

i feel like unless there can be a logical, objective, non-opinionized system like a scientific method of sorts system to step by step (to ensure continued objectivity) come up with a criteria. otherwise it will always be he said she said, which is pretty *** stupid to leave it this this. to follow through with the example i said earlier, she said yes till she realized she was in the position to be judged by her sex partner after the fact and now she personally believes she was raped. (again example)
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-08-11 11:10:02
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Seriously? What the Hell is wrong with some of you? You act like gals being ***faced is the normative of rape, and justify by saying that they need to learn how to conduct themselves? You learn. It's a crash course but you learn.

Stay in groups and don't accept drinks from strangers. If a guy is relentlessly bothering you and you have a guy-pal around, plop down beside the guy-pal, so maybe they'll get the damn message. If just with gals, stay in twos to lose the annoying ones and reconvene at another table or area.

Also, would you prefer every girl wear a garbage bag? Women don't choose their clothes to make you feel good, ***!

Casting blame on one gender or the other is wrong, because there's scumbags within both genders. Jesus!

I don't think it's necessary to call Jesus a scumbag. I mean, yeah he's a guy, but...

*ducks*

IT'S NO FUN IF YOU EXPECT IT!!!
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-08-11 11:10:39
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
As I have said before, rape is rape. But accusing people of rape when you willingly allow yourself, and even pursued the notion of sex, that's what I'm talking about.

What is willing? A woman flirting with you can be construed as an invitation for sex. Or it could just be a woman flirting with you.

You segued into some argument about dress. Dress means nothing. Chick can have a low cut dress and it isn't an invitation for sex.

Quote:
Let me ask you this: Do you think that all women are innocent?

Obviously not. Still not an excuse to somehow construe dress with invitation for rape.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 11:17:36
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
As I have said before, rape is rape. But accusing people of rape when you willingly allow yourself, and even pursued the notion of sex, that's what I'm talking about.

What is willing? A woman flirting with you can be construed as an invitation for sex. Or it could just be a woman flirting with you.

You segued into some argument about dress. Dress means nothing. Chick can have a low cut dress and it isn't an invitation for sex.

Quote:
Let me ask you this: Do you think that all women are innocent?

Obviously not. Still not an excuse to somehow construe dress with invitation for rape.
If women have absolutely no control over what they wear, then you would be 100% correct.

You are still correct in a way that, based on what they wear alone is not an invitation to sex, but it is a sign that sex is a possible option. You shouldn't be obtuse to that the manner of clothing opens possibilities.

Why do you think that the women who dress like *** are the ones who get free drinks all the time?

But I like how you changed your "invitation for sex" to "invitation for rape." It's like you are trying to set me up for another argument where you will try to make it sound like I'm defending rapists or something again.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-08-11 11:22:29
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A sign? Dude, women dress modestly as *** in the Middle
East to the point where you're a walking pair of eye slits and still get raped. You're simply wrong. The idea that dress invites rape completely ignores the facts (that some dudes cant take a rebuff) for a convenient excuse.

Dress has nothing to do with it. Women will choose to wear what they want to wear and men will continue to make decisions based on how they feel. Be that feeding drinks to get laid or shrugging off that scantly clad woman as being beneath him.

Also, women in general get free drinks because men are socially conditioned to make the first move and clubs want women to show up to clubs so the place isn't a sausagefest. You can be dressed in dirty *** sweatpants and a greasy top and still get looks from sex-starved men hoping they get lucky off 3.50 in Bud Lights.

Dressing slutty means nothing. Slutty is relative.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 11:30:28
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Sparth, it is pretty obvious at this point that you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

You did not read anything I wrote previously, and are looking at anything and everything to argue with.

I have said no less than four times that rapists are rapists, and they will be rapists no matter what. I have also said no less than four times that rape and rape drugs are not included in my argument because they are something else. I have also said no less than five times that my argument is about false accusations of rape, and how it isn't the guy's fault for the woman in question to falsely accuse him of rape because she not only consensuses to it, but also encourages it.

But you have to disregard all of that, just to make an argument implying that I'm defending rapists. Which I said that you were doing in my very last post above this one.

So, how about reading what I wrote instead of skimming for a few key words next time, k? Of course, that is assuming that you even read this post at all.
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By Carbuncle.Bukadan 2014-08-11 11:39:15
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people have an issue with nitpicking a single sentence out of posts and considering their little comment on that sentence a response you entire posts. i mean when it comes down to it, opinions dont matter here. like i said in my last post, progress on this issue can only be made when opinions are dropped in favor of the greater good in terms of a resolution.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-08-11 11:43:14
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I kinda feel bad for these hardcore liberals. (Not the elite, as they don't give a damn)

Al Gore is God.

The get all their news from MSNBC listening to Al Sharpton while they read the Huffington Post complain about men all day.

And to make matters worse, if they can't Google what anyone else says, provided it comes from one their accepted sites as well, it must be false.
Stop being HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE please, if that's possible. I was asking for the actual paper. It shouldn't be seen as a difficult request, but if a particular study can't even be shown to exist in the first place, it shouldn't be touted around as fact.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-08-11 11:48:33
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Dunno what Chaos is going on about. Al Gore is God? What are you, 17? Try my lord and savior Karl Marx. Have you heard the good news about Das Kapital? Makes an inconvenient truth look like a dirty rag.

Acceptable answers also include Leon Trotsky, Vladimir Lenin, Che Guevara, Friedrich Nietzsche, Noam Chomsky, Slavoj Zizek or anyone with a beard. Liberalism is nothing without the power of beards.
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 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-08-11 12:00:47
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21164210

Don't glom onto a single study just because it agrees with what you think. There's also more to studies than their abstracts.

Yeah I had originally posted and omitted that the 41% statistic portion of his abstract just because 41% seems a bit absurd compared to other studies.

The only reason I had posted that link was to point out his statement on why false rape accusations occur.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-08-11 12:01:54
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Maybe girls should sign a waiver before deciding to get blackout drunk while hanging out with a bunch of college boys? I'm not justifying the behavior of the boys, but come on....
so what... are you saying that guys should just climb on top of any girl that gets black out drunk and have their way with them? Would you say the same if it happened to you? Some guy just violates you while you're passed out and well its your own fault?

There is no come on... People do stupid things it doesn't mean that others should get a pass on raping them for it...

People need to think about this more like its happening to them or their children... well honey... I know those boys raped you but honestly... you were totally asking for it by getting drunk liek that... now go to your room and think about what you did...

Did you even read the rest of the follow-up conversation before posting that, or is jumping to conclusions just easier for you?
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-08-11 12:07:42
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
So, how about reading what I wrote instead of skimming for a few key words next time, k?

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
....it is pretty obvious at this point that....rapists are....something else....it isn't the guy's fault for the woman....encourages it.

....I'm defending rapists.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 12:18:26
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Maybe girls should sign a waiver before deciding to get blackout drunk while hanging out with a bunch of college boys? I'm not justifying the behavior of the boys, but come on....
so what... are you saying that guys should just climb on top of any girl that gets black out drunk and have their way with them? Would you say the same if it happened to you? Some guy just violates you while you're passed out and well its your own fault?

There is no come on... People do stupid things it doesn't mean that others should get a pass on raping them for it...

People need to think about this more like its happening to them or their children... well honey... I know those boys raped you but honestly... you were totally asking for it by getting drunk liek that... now go to your room and think about what you did...

Did you even read the rest of the follow-up conversation before posting that, or is jumping to conclusions just easier for you?
But jumping to conclusions is fun. You should try it once.

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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-08-11 12:22:02
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I kinda feel bad for these hardcore liberals. (Not the elite, as they don't give a damn)

Al Gore is God.

The get all their news from MSNBC listening to Al Sharpton while they read the Huffington Post complain about men all day.

And to make matters worse, if they can't Google what anyone else says, provided it comes from one their accepted sites as well, it must be false.
Stop being HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE please, if that's possible. I was asking for the actual paper. It shouldn't be seen as a difficult request, but if a particular study can't even be shown to exist in the first place, it shouldn't be touted around as fact.


Huh. Yeah, this is getting added to the list of Pleebo quotes that can be used against him later.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-11 12:23:18
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Define "dress like a tramp".
Women who looks like their sole profession is to spread their legs and take it.

Doesn't matter if they are a prostitute or not, if they dress like you want to have sex, then don't complain when you do.

(again, rape drugs and actual rape excluded from the above statement. This disclaimer is for those who get their panties in a twist of you don't put this disclaimer in every post...)
Dress like yuo want to have sex? lmao...

Yes judge... the person was clearly dressed like they wanted to have sex so I just gave em what they wanted you know even though they told me they didn't want it or were unconscious but I could tell they wanted it for real so its cool...
So, to you rape means having sex, even if they want it while intoxicated.

I won't tell you how many times I have driven drunk women to their homes and they wanted to hump my lights out because of it. So, I guess those times that I took them on their offer, according to you, I "raped" them.
If you can even come away with an idea that I'm saying rape is having sex then there's something wrong with the way your brain processes any kind of logic...

throwing back a couple of drinks and having sex with someone that throws themselves at you is not rape...

You guys are the ones sitting here blaming women for getting blackout drunk and dressing like they know they want to have sex that night for even putting themselves in the situation. It wasn't until right now that you even mention anything about them saying they want to have sex with a specific person... hell the other tard even went as far to say that they did get raped but he just doesn't give a ***because the little *** brought it upon themselves lol...

don't try to make this into some kind of thing where you're talking about something you haven't been for the whole morning...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 12:23:25
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I kinda feel bad for these hardcore liberals. (Not the elite, as they don't give a damn)

Al Gore is God.

The get all their news from MSNBC listening to Al Sharpton while they read the Huffington Post complain about men all day.

And to make matters worse, if they can't Google what anyone else says, provided it comes from one their accepted sites as well, it must be false.
Stop being HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE please, if that's possible. I was asking for the actual paper. It shouldn't be seen as a difficult request, but if a particular study can't even be shown to exist in the first place, it shouldn't be touted around as fact.


Huh. Yeah, this is getting added to the list of Pleebo quotes that can be used against him later.
How long is your list? I'm up to 90ish.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-08-11 12:23:45
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Go nuts. I know how to provide citations and I usually do.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-08-11 12:25:55
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Go nuts. I know how to provide citations and I usually do.

Just apparently not when I want actual statistical data. At that point, you more or less tell me that it totes exist somewhere and send me on a wild goose chase.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 12:26:46
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
throwing back a couple of drinks and having sex with someone that throws themselves at you is not rape..
By Jove, I think he's got it!



Congratulations, you have finally got to my argument, for once!

Because that is what I have been saying this entire time!

I can't believe it took you 3 pages to figure it out though, and I was making my argument as simple as can be too....
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-11 12:27:11
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
As I have said before, rape is rape. But accusing people of rape when you willingly allow yourself, and even pursued the notion of sex, that's what I'm talking about.

What is willing? A woman flirting with you can be construed as an invitation for sex. Or it could just be a woman flirting with you.

You segued into some argument about dress. Dress means nothing. Chick can have a low cut dress and it isn't an invitation for sex.

Quote:
Let me ask you this: Do you think that all women are innocent?

Obviously not. Still not an excuse to somehow construe dress with invitation for rape.
If women have absolutely no control over what they wear, then you would be 100% correct.

You are still correct in a way that, based on what they wear alone is not an invitation to sex, but it is a sign that sex is a possible option. You shouldn't be obtuse to that the manner of clothing opens possibilities.

Why do you think that the women who dress like *** are the ones who get free drinks all the time?

But I like how you changed your "invitation for sex" to "invitation for rape." It's like you are trying to set me up for another argument where you will try to make it sound like I'm defending rapists or something again.
Dressing like that is not a sign that sex is a possible option... It shows more about your lack of understanding about why people do anything they do than that lol...

maybe they dress like *** because that gets them drinks for free? Why are you trying so hardto make things into something they most likely aren't?
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-08-11 12:29:44
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I can't provide a citation for your generic request of statistical data. We went over this and there's really no need to infect other threads with more climate change nay-saying.
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-11 12:29:48
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Maybe girls should sign a waiver before deciding to get blackout drunk while hanging out with a bunch of college boys? I'm not justifying the behavior of the boys, but come on....
so what... are you saying that guys should just climb on top of any girl that gets black out drunk and have their way with them? Would you say the same if it happened to you? Some guy just violates you while you're passed out and well its your own fault?

There is no come on... People do stupid things it doesn't mean that others should get a pass on raping them for it...

People need to think about this more like its happening to them or their children... well honey... I know those boys raped you but honestly... you were totally asking for it by getting drunk liek that... now go to your room and think about what you did...

Did you even read the rest of the follow-up conversation before posting that, or is jumping to conclusions just easier for you?
Did you even think before making this post?
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