California Debates 'yes Means Yes' Sex Assault Law

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California debates 'yes means yes' sex assault law
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 13:36:51
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Ramyrez said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Quote:
even though they never had any criminal or bad intentions.

Criminal -- maybe not.

"Bad" -- subjective. "Love 'em and leave 'em" is pretty *** terrible, in my opinion, unless it's a mutual understanding of consequence-free sex in the first place. Then again, if you enter into that without knowing and trusting the person first, you're an idiot.
Sometimes I think I'm talking to my grandmother when I'm talking to you. There's nothing wrong with going out and just *** some random. There's nothing bad about it if they're both consenting adults.

Intent is important but just because you didn't go into the act with the intention of raping someone doesn't mean you didn't actually end up raping someone.

I'm not against people engaging in random hookups, per se. Like you said, consenting adults.

I'm just the kind that would be a bit paranoid about sleeping with someone I don't know at least to some degree. Those seem like the situations -- to me -- where you really might end up with false rape requests. That or sleeping with people you know you shouldn't, like people who are in relationships already.
You're loss bud. Some of the best sex I've ever had has been one night stands with random drunk ***.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-03 13:36:58
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Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ramyrez said: »
It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.

Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.

I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.

But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy.
do you not realize how similar your argument is to the victim-blaming you're so quick to pounce on
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 13:39:01
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Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ramyrez said: »
It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.

Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.

I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.

But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy.
BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!

No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit!
[+]
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-10-03 13:41:44
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Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
IDK what's going on in your heads', but the realistic scenario is she might make a comment to her friends about your performance. Worse case, she might say you have a small *** during the gal-gab.

Continue your freak out session though.

"I dropped my pants and she started giggling. She flicked it a few times like a it was a keychain or something. And it was then I realized I had made a terrible mistake."

YouTube Video Placeholder


"Is it in? IS IT IN?! Oh my god, hes not flaccid...."

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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-03 13:42:09
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
(1) An affirmative consent standard in the determination of whether consent was given by both parties to sexual activity. “Affirmative consent” means affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. It is the responsibility of each person involved in the sexual activity to ensure that he or she has the affirmative consent of the other or others to engage in the sexual activity. Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent. Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time. The existence of a dating relationship between the persons involved, or the fact of past sexual relations between them, should never by itself be assumed to be an indicator of consent.
(2) A policy that, in the evaluation of complaints in any disciplinary process, it shall not be a valid excuse to alleged lack of affirmative consent that the accused believed that the complainant consented to the sexual activity under either of the following circumstances:
(A) The accused’s belief in affirmative consent arose from the intoxication or recklessness of the accused.
(B) The accused did not take reasonable steps, in the circumstances known to the accused at the time, to ascertain whether the complainant affirmatively consented.
(3) A policy that the standard used in determining whether the elements of the complaint against the accused have been demonstrated is the preponderance of the evidence.
(4) A policy that, in the evaluation of complaints in the disciplinary process, it shall not be a valid excuse that the accused believed that the complainant affirmatively consented to the sexual activity if the accused knew or reasonably should have known that the complainant was unable to consent to the sexual activity under any of the following circumstances:
(A) The complainant was asleep or unconscious.
(B) The complainant was incapacitated due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication, so that the complainant could not understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity.
(C) The complainant was unable to communicate due to a mental or physical condition.

Pulled this from the text of the law, doesn't the bold part mean that if the accused had been drinking, that they are unable to determine affirmative consent?

Man, this thing is worse than I thought.

No, it's presented in the positive tense, meaning that they couldn't use the excuse that they were too drunk to be expected to seek consent. Basically, the I was so drunk I didn't realize she was unconscious exception. It also enumerates that if both parties are too intoxicated to determine consent under the law that neither can be considered a victim or perpetrator.
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By Ramyrez 2014-10-03 13:45:45
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
You're loss bud. Some of the best sex I've ever had has been one night stands with random drunk ***.

Indicative of your attitude and the entire problem.

Quote:
do you not realize how similar your argument is to the victim-blaming you're so quick to pounce on

I can see how you and Nausi would perceive it to be as so.
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-03 13:49:48
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ramyrez said: »
It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.

Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.

I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.

But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy.
BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!

No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit!
You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity
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 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-10-03 13:50:33
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Ramyrez said: »
Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
To be fair Ramyrez I don't think any single and drunk male or female is lookin for spouse material in a bar

I don't think you're familiar enough with the rural portion of the country's population.
I don't deal with rural folk much
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-03 13:51:20
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Ramyrez said: »
I can see how you and Nausi would perceive it to be as so.

Can you elaborate? Because I, as a man, feel I should have the right to have consensual sex with all of the married women I want. It's my body, and I'm not violating any laws. I deserve the same rights as a woman, making reckless decisions should not lessen or invalidate any crimes committed against me, including but not limited to slander or arson.
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 13:57:27
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ramyrez said: »
It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.

Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.

I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.

But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy.
BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!

No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit!
You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity
I was being slightly sarcastic as he is so quick to jump down my throat when I essentially say:

"It was an awful thing rapist did to you, but if you had acted a bit differently, you might not have ended up in that situation."

However, I generally think that if you go out to a club you should be prepared to meet someone that might be a potential rapist. I also believe that if you sleep with another women, you should consider the possibility that she might be already involved with a crazy partner that might get so jealous as to burn your house down.

Either way, "don't stick your *** in crazy" sums it up nicely.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 13:58:16
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ramyrez said: »
I can see how you and Nausi would perceive it to be as so.

Can you elaborate? Because I, as a man, feel I should have the right to have consensual sex with all of the married women I want. It's my body, and I'm not violating any laws. I deserve the same rights as a woman, making reckless decisions should not lessen or invalidate any crimes committed against me, including but not limited to slander or arson.
Good luck bro, you're in for a long ride into a brick wall.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 14:10:44
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Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down. It shouldn't even get you punched. It should get that couple to re evaluate their marriage.

Nothing the guy did warranted that response.

You sleeping with the guys wife neither lessens the crime of arson nor does it invalidate the crimes against you.

I also don't think you have any idea what slander actually is so yeah.

Wreckless behavior or not.. it does not entitle anyone to take criminal action against you.

Edit: It's funny because you actually almost had him on something then you went full potato on to something else and completely lost it...
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-03 14:13:52
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pretty sure a false rape report goes under slander, was really just pointing out ramyrez's hypocrisy when the victim-blaming is applied to someone with dangly genitalia
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:16:23
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down.
You are correct.

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
It shouldn't even get you punched.
If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.

A total *** kicking, sure.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-10-03 14:16:28
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ramyrez said: »
It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.

Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.

I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.

But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy.
BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!

No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit!
You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity

Hypothetical to call you on your BS - would you put your wife dressed in a mini skirt, cleavage busting out and whatnot, in front of a bunch of horny soldiers on a military base who haven't seen a woman in years?
You're what I like to call a "Smart Idiot" if you do.
 Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-10-03 14:18:10
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down.
You are correct.

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
It shouldn't even get you punched.
If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.

A total *** kicking, sure.
What if she told the guy she was separated, divorced, wants to leave him or is in an open relationship or didn't bring it up at all? Because that never happens right?
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-10-03 14:24:06
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Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ramyrez said: »
It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.

Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.

I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.

But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy.
BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!

No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit!
You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity

Hypothetical to call you on your BS - would you put your wife dressed in a mini skirt, cleavage busting out and whatnot, in front of a bunch of horny soldiers on a military base who haven't seen a woman in years?
You're what I like to call a "Smart Idiot" if you do.
ITT: Women are things without any personality or accountability.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 14:24:28
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Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?

Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?

Is self-control such a difficult concept?
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:25:25
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Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down.
You are correct.

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
It shouldn't even get you punched.
If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.

A total *** kicking, sure.
What if she told the guy she was separated, divorced, wants to leave him or is in an open relationship or didn't bring it up at all? Because that never happens right?
It wouldn't be the guy's fault then to be honest.

I mean, let's say that you meet a girl in a bar, hook up, sleep with her, and then find out after the fact that she is married. If you break ties with her right then and there, no harm, no foul. Keep sleeping with her, you should get beat within an inch of your life.

But this is my opinion.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:26:46
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?

Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?

Is self-control such a difficult concept?
Wow, talk about taking an example to the extreme.

Sometimes I think your responses are just trolling.
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-03 14:28:49
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Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »

Hypothetical to call you on your BS - would you put your wife dressed in a mini skirt, cleavage busting out and whatnot, in front of a bunch of horny soldiers on a military base who haven't seen a woman in years?
You're what I like to call a "Smart Idiot" if you do.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?

Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?

Is self-control such a difficult concept?
Wow, talk about taking an example to the extreme.

Sometimes I think your responses are just trolling.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 14:29:10
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down.
You are correct.

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
It shouldn't even get you punched.
If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.

A total *** kicking, sure.
Why?

There's obvisouly issues that they're having with their marriage and they should spend the time working on those problems or just give up on it.

There's no reason to go and beat some guys *** because you're angry about your wife stepping out on you lol...
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:29:54
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »

Hypothetical to call you on your BS - would you put your wife dressed in a mini skirt, cleavage busting out and whatnot, in front of a bunch of horny soldiers on a military base who haven't seen a woman in years?
You're what I like to call a "Smart Idiot" if you do.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?

Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?

Is self-control such a difficult concept?
Wow, talk about taking an example to the extreme.

Sometimes I think your responses are just trolling.
I was referring to Flavin, not Maldini.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 14:30:57
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?

Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?

Is self-control such a difficult concept?
Strawman!
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 14:31:26
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Thank you Milamber... I guess I should make sure to quote stuff like that when I respond...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:31:57
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down.
You are correct.

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
It shouldn't even get you punched.
If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.

A total *** kicking, sure.
Why?

There's obvisouly issues that they're having with their marriage and they should spend the time working on those problems or just give up on it.

There's no reason to go and beat some guys *** because you're angry about your wife stepping out on you lol...
So, according to you, it is perfectly ok to sleep with married women. Married to other men that is.

Because there are "obvious issues with their marriage," as you put it.

I'm sure you would blame the guy for that too.

Let's expand on that then. Do you think the woman is cheating? Is it cheating for the guy to do it? If the answer is different, explain why.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 14:32:33
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down.
You are correct.

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
It shouldn't even get you punched.
If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.

A total *** kicking, sure.
Why?

There's obvisouly issues that they're having with their marriage and they should spend the time working on those problems or just give up on it.

There's no reason to go and beat some guys *** because you're angry about your wife stepping out on you lol...

Well, there IS a reason to, just not a very good one.

I've never understood it either, I would think that the person you should be angry at is your wife. She is supposed to have some concept of the marriage shes risking.

The guy on the other end has no clue what your marriage is made of.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:33:12
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I guess Milamber didn't realize that Flavin was responding to Maldini....
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-03 14:34:40
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »

Hypothetical to call you on your BS - would you put your wife dressed in a mini skirt, cleavage busting out and whatnot, in front of a bunch of horny soldiers on a military base who haven't seen a woman in years?
You're what I like to call a "Smart Idiot" if you do.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?

Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?

Is self-control such a difficult concept?
Wow, talk about taking an example to the extreme.

Sometimes I think your responses are just trolling.
I was referring to Flavin, not Maldini.
Yes, who was responding to Maldini's example. Because that's pretty much spot on what Maldini was implying with his example.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-10-03 14:35:25
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?

Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?

Is self-control such a difficult concept?
Well the fact that Soldiers rape their own military comrades should answer that for you.

Are you guys really this naive?
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