|
California debates 'yes means yes' sex assault law
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 13:36:51
Quote: even though they never had any criminal or bad intentions.
Criminal -- maybe not.
"Bad" -- subjective. "Love 'em and leave 'em" is pretty *** terrible, in my opinion, unless it's a mutual understanding of consequence-free sex in the first place. Then again, if you enter into that without knowing and trusting the person first, you're an idiot. Sometimes I think I'm talking to my grandmother when I'm talking to you. There's nothing wrong with going out and just *** some random. There's nothing bad about it if they're both consenting adults.
Intent is important but just because you didn't go into the act with the intention of raping someone doesn't mean you didn't actually end up raping someone.
I'm not against people engaging in random hookups, per se. Like you said, consenting adults.
I'm just the kind that would be a bit paranoid about sleeping with someone I don't know at least to some degree. Those seem like the situations -- to me -- where you really might end up with false rape requests. That or sleeping with people you know you shouldn't, like people who are in relationships already. You're loss bud. Some of the best sex I've ever had has been one night stands with random drunk ***.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-03 13:36:58
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.
Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.
I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.
But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy. do you not realize how similar your argument is to the victim-blaming you're so quick to pounce on
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 13:39:01
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.
Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.
I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.
But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy. BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!
No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit!
[+]
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-10-03 13:41:44
IDK what's going on in your heads', but the realistic scenario is she might make a comment to her friends about your performance. Worse case, she might say you have a small *** during the gal-gab.
Continue your freak out session though.
"I dropped my pants and she started giggling. She flicked it a few times like a it was a keychain or something. And it was then I realized I had made a terrible mistake."
YouTube Video Placeholder
"Is it in? IS IT IN?! Oh my god, hes not flaccid...."
YouTube Video Placeholder
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-03 13:42:09
(1) An affirmative consent standard in the determination of whether consent was given by both parties to sexual activity. “Affirmative consent” means affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. It is the responsibility of each person involved in the sexual activity to ensure that he or she has the affirmative consent of the other or others to engage in the sexual activity. Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent. Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time. The existence of a dating relationship between the persons involved, or the fact of past sexual relations between them, should never by itself be assumed to be an indicator of consent.
(2) A policy that, in the evaluation of complaints in any disciplinary process, it shall not be a valid excuse to alleged lack of affirmative consent that the accused believed that the complainant consented to the sexual activity under either of the following circumstances:
(A) The accused’s belief in affirmative consent arose from the intoxication or recklessness of the accused.
(B) The accused did not take reasonable steps, in the circumstances known to the accused at the time, to ascertain whether the complainant affirmatively consented.
(3) A policy that the standard used in determining whether the elements of the complaint against the accused have been demonstrated is the preponderance of the evidence.
(4) A policy that, in the evaluation of complaints in the disciplinary process, it shall not be a valid excuse that the accused believed that the complainant affirmatively consented to the sexual activity if the accused knew or reasonably should have known that the complainant was unable to consent to the sexual activity under any of the following circumstances:
(A) The complainant was asleep or unconscious.
(B) The complainant was incapacitated due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication, so that the complainant could not understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity.
(C) The complainant was unable to communicate due to a mental or physical condition.
Pulled this from the text of the law, doesn't the bold part mean that if the accused had been drinking, that they are unable to determine affirmative consent?
Man, this thing is worse than I thought.
No, it's presented in the positive tense, meaning that they couldn't use the excuse that they were too drunk to be expected to seek consent. Basically, the I was so drunk I didn't realize she was unconscious exception. It also enumerates that if both parties are too intoxicated to determine consent under the law that neither can be considered a victim or perpetrator.
By Ramyrez 2014-10-03 13:45:45
You're loss bud. Some of the best sex I've ever had has been one night stands with random drunk ***.
Indicative of your attitude and the entire problem.
Quote: do you not realize how similar your argument is to the victim-blaming you're so quick to pounce on
I can see how you and Nausi would perceive it to be as so.
[+]
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-03 13:49:48
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.
Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.
I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.
But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy. BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!
No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit! You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity
[+]
Cerberus.Anjisnu
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-10-03 13:50:33
To be fair Ramyrez I don't think any single and drunk male or female is lookin for spouse material in a bar
I don't think you're familiar enough with the rural portion of the country's population. I don't deal with rural folk much
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-03 13:51:20
I can see how you and Nausi would perceive it to be as so.
Can you elaborate? Because I, as a man, feel I should have the right to have consensual sex with all of the married women I want. It's my body, and I'm not violating any laws. I deserve the same rights as a woman, making reckless decisions should not lessen or invalidate any crimes committed against me, including but not limited to slander or arson.
[+]
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 13:57:27
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.
Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.
I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.
But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy. BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!
No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit! You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity I was being slightly sarcastic as he is so quick to jump down my throat when I essentially say:
"It was an awful thing rapist did to you, but if you had acted a bit differently, you might not have ended up in that situation."
However, I generally think that if you go out to a club you should be prepared to meet someone that might be a potential rapist. I also believe that if you sleep with another women, you should consider the possibility that she might be already involved with a crazy partner that might get so jealous as to burn your house down.
Either way, "don't stick your *** in crazy" sums it up nicely.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 13:58:16
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »I can see how you and Nausi would perceive it to be as so.
Can you elaborate? Because I, as a man, feel I should have the right to have consensual sex with all of the married women I want. It's my body, and I'm not violating any laws. I deserve the same rights as a woman, making reckless decisions should not lessen or invalidate any crimes committed against me, including but not limited to slander or arson. Good luck bro, you're in for a long ride into a brick wall.
[+]
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 14:10:44
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down. It shouldn't even get you punched. It should get that couple to re evaluate their marriage.
Nothing the guy did warranted that response.
You sleeping with the guys wife neither lessens the crime of arson nor does it invalidate the crimes against you.
I also don't think you have any idea what slander actually is so yeah.
Wreckless behavior or not.. it does not entitle anyone to take criminal action against you.
Edit: It's funny because you actually almost had him on something then you went full potato on to something else and completely lost it...
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-03 14:13:52
pretty sure a false rape report goes under slander, was really just pointing out ramyrez's hypocrisy when the victim-blaming is applied to someone with dangly genitalia
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:16:23
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down. You are correct.
It shouldn't even get you punched. If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.
A total *** kicking, sure.
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 303
By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-10-03 14:16:28
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.
Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.
I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.
But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy. BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!
No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit! You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity
Hypothetical to call you on your BS - would you put your wife dressed in a mini skirt, cleavage busting out and whatnot, in front of a bunch of horny soldiers on a military base who haven't seen a woman in years?
You're what I like to call a "Smart Idiot" if you do.
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 303
By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-10-03 14:18:10
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down. You are correct.
It shouldn't even get you punched. If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.
A total *** kicking, sure. What if she told the guy she was separated, divorced, wants to leave him or is in an open relationship or didn't bring it up at all? Because that never happens right?
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-10-03 14:24:06
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.
Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.
I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.
But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy. BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!
No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit! You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity
Hypothetical to call you on your BS - would you put your wife dressed in a mini skirt, cleavage busting out and whatnot, in front of a bunch of horny soldiers on a military base who haven't seen a woman in years?
You're what I like to call a "Smart Idiot" if you do. ITT: Women are things without any personality or accountability.
[+]
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 14:24:28
Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?
Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?
Is self-control such a difficult concept?
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:25:25
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down. You are correct.
It shouldn't even get you punched. If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.
A total *** kicking, sure. What if she told the guy she was separated, divorced, wants to leave him or is in an open relationship or didn't bring it up at all? Because that never happens right? It wouldn't be the guy's fault then to be honest.
I mean, let's say that you meet a girl in a bar, hook up, sleep with her, and then find out after the fact that she is married. If you break ties with her right then and there, no harm, no foul. Keep sleeping with her, you should get beat within an inch of your life.
But this is my opinion.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:26:46
Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?
Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?
Is self-control such a difficult concept? Wow, talk about taking an example to the extreme.
Sometimes I think your responses are just trolling.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-03 14:28:49
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.
Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.
I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.
But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy. BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!
No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit! You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity
Hypothetical to call you on your BS - would you put your wife dressed in a mini skirt, cleavage busting out and whatnot, in front of a bunch of horny soldiers on a military base who haven't seen a woman in years?
You're what I like to call a "Smart Idiot" if you do.Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?
Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?
Is self-control such a difficult concept? Wow, talk about taking an example to the extreme.
Sometimes I think your responses are just trolling.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 14:29:10
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down. You are correct.
It shouldn't even get you punched. If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.
A total *** kicking, sure. Why?
There's obvisouly issues that they're having with their marriage and they should spend the time working on those problems or just give up on it.
There's no reason to go and beat some guys *** because you're angry about your wife stepping out on you lol...
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:29:54
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.
Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.
I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.
But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy. BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!
No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit! You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity
Hypothetical to call you on your BS - would you put your wife dressed in a mini skirt, cleavage busting out and whatnot, in front of a bunch of horny soldiers on a military base who haven't seen a woman in years?
You're what I like to call a "Smart Idiot" if you do.Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?
Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?
Is self-control such a difficult concept? Wow, talk about taking an example to the extreme.
Sometimes I think your responses are just trolling. I was referring to Flavin, not Maldini.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 14:30:57
Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?
Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?
Is self-control such a difficult concept? Strawman!
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 14:31:26
Thank you Milamber... I guess I should make sure to quote stuff like that when I respond...
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:31:57
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down. You are correct.
It shouldn't even get you punched. If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.
A total *** kicking, sure. Why?
There's obvisouly issues that they're having with their marriage and they should spend the time working on those problems or just give up on it.
There's no reason to go and beat some guys *** because you're angry about your wife stepping out on you lol... So, according to you, it is perfectly ok to sleep with married women. Married to other men that is.
Because there are "obvious issues with their marriage," as you put it.
I'm sure you would blame the guy for that too.
Let's expand on that then. Do you think the woman is cheating? Is it cheating for the guy to do it? If the answer is different, explain why.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 14:32:33
Sleeping with a married woman does not give someone the right to burn your house down. You are correct.
It shouldn't even get you punched. If you knew that the woman was married and yet, you still slept with her, you deserve a lot worse punishment than being punched.
A total *** kicking, sure. Why?
There's obvisouly issues that they're having with their marriage and they should spend the time working on those problems or just give up on it.
There's no reason to go and beat some guys *** because you're angry about your wife stepping out on you lol...
Well, there IS a reason to, just not a very good one.
I've never understood it either, I would think that the person you should be angry at is your wife. She is supposed to have some concept of the marriage shes risking.
The guy on the other end has no clue what your marriage is made of.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 14:33:12
I guess Milamber didn't realize that Flavin was responding to Maldini....
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-03 14:34:40
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It was his fault he got accused of rape, he shouldn't have had consensual sex with that girl. She had a boyfriend, you know he was looking for trouble.
Between us, one of us has had a house burned down because a friend slept with a girl who was romantically entangled otherwise, and he knew it.
I don't blame anyone but the arsonist.
But it could have been avoided if said friend found somewhere else to whet his willy. BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!
No excuses! Your friend didn't ask for it one bit! You can't seriously believe that these two scenarios are equivalent:
- saying that someone wearing provocative clothes, picking up soap, or being in a bad part of town, is just asking to be raped, and it's their fault
- arson due to infidelity
Hypothetical to call you on your BS - would you put your wife dressed in a mini skirt, cleavage busting out and whatnot, in front of a bunch of horny soldiers on a military base who haven't seen a woman in years?
You're what I like to call a "Smart Idiot" if you do.Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?
Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?
Is self-control such a difficult concept? Wow, talk about taking an example to the extreme.
Sometimes I think your responses are just trolling. I was referring to Flavin, not Maldini. Yes, who was responding to Maldini's example. Because that's pretty much spot on what Maldini was implying with his example.
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 303
By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-10-03 14:35:25
Are you saying that soldiers are unable to control themselves if they see a woman and they will go all rapey if they see one dressed in a miniskirt and a shirt showing cleavage?
Are you saying that we should not trust soldiers? Or is it that all men are basically rapists if a sexy woman is put in front of us?
Is self-control such a difficult concept? Well the fact that Soldiers rape their own military comrades should answer that for you.
Are you guys really this naive?
Quote: SAN DIEGO (AP) — College students have heard a similar refrain for years in campaigns to stop sexual assault: No means no.
Now, as universities around the country that are facing pressure over the handling of rape allegations adopt policies to define consensual sex, California is poised to take it a step further. Lawmakers are considering what would be the first-in-the-nation measure requiring all colleges that receive public funds to set a standard for when "yes means yes."
Defining consensual sex is a growing trend by universities in an effort to do more to protect victims. From the University of California system to Yale, schools have been adopting standards to distinguish when consent was given for a sexual activity and when it was not.
Legislation passed by California's state Senate in May and coming before the Assembly this month would require all schools that receive public funds for student financial assistance to set a so-called "affirmative consent standard" that could be used in investigating and adjudicating sexual assault allegations. That would be defined as "an affirmative, unambiguous and conscious decision" by each party to engage in sexual activity.
Silence or lack of resistance does not constitute consent. The legislation says it's also not consent if the person is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep.
Lawmakers say consent can be nonverbal, and universities with similar policies have outlined examples as maybe a nod of the head or moving in closer to the person.
Several state legislatures, including Maryland, Texas and Connecticut, introduced bills in the past year to push colleges to do more after a White House task force reported that 1 in 5 female college students is a victim of sexual assault. The U.S. Education Department also took the unprecedented step of releasing the names of schools facing federal investigation for the way they handle sexual abuse allegations.
But no state legislation has gone as far as California's bill in requiring a consent standard.
Critics say the state is overstepping its bounds. The Los Angeles Times in an editorial after the bill passed the state Senate 27-4 wrote that it raises questions as to whether it is "reasonable" or "enforceable." The legislation is based on the White House task force's recommendations.
"It seems extremely difficult and extraordinarily intrusive to micromanage sex so closely as to tell young people what steps they must take in the privacy of their own dorm rooms," the newspaper said.
Some fear navigating the murky waters of consent spells trouble for universities.
"Frequently these cases involve two individuals, both of whom maybe were under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and it can be very tricky to ascertain whether consent was obtained," said Ada Meloy, general counsel of the American Council on Education, which represents college presidents.
She said schools need to guarantee a safe environment for students, while law enforcement is best suited for handling more serious sexual assault cases.
John F. Banzhaf III, a George Washington University's Law School professor, believes having university disciplinary panels interpret vague cues and body language will open the door for more lawsuits.
The legal definition of rape in most states means the perpetrator used force or the threat of force against the victim, but the California legislation could set the stage in which both parties could accuse each other of sexual assault, he said.
"This bill would very, very radically change the definition of rape," he said.
University of California at Berkeley student Meghan Warner, 20, said that's a good thing. She said she was sexually assaulted during her freshman year by two men at a fraternity but didn't report it because she believed "that unless it was a stranger at night with a weapon who attacked you when you were walking home, that it wasn't rape. It's just a crappy thing that happened." She now runs campus workshops to teach students what constitutes consent.
"Most students don't know what consent is," she said. "I've asked at the workshops how many people think if a girl is blacked out drunk that it's OK to have sex with her. The amount of people who raised their hands was just startling."
Defining consent may be easy to do on paper, said Laura Nguyen, a 21-year-old San Diego State University senior, but "we're talking about college students out at night and the reality is there's not just 'yes' or 'no.' There is a lot of in between. I really think it depends on the situation."
The legislation initially stated that "if there is confusion as to whether a person has consented or continues to consent to sexual activity, it is essential that the participants stop the activity until the confusion can be clearly resolved."
After some interpreted that as asking people to stop after each kiss to get a verbal agreement before going to the next level, the bill was amended to say consent must be "ongoing" and "can be revoked at any time."
"California needs to provide our students with education, resources, consistent policies and justice so that the system is not stacked against survivors," state Sen. Kevin de Leon, a Los Angeles Democrat, said in promoting the bill.
Supporters say investigators would have to determine whether consent had been given by both parties instead of focusing on whether the complainant resisted or said no.
Denice Labertew of the California Coalition Against Sexual Assault said the bill fosters a cultural change: "There's a lot of criticism around affirmative consent because it requires us to change the way we normally think about this."
Source
|
|