California Debates 'yes Means Yes' Sex Assault Law

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California debates 'yes means yes' sex assault law
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By Ramyrez 2014-10-02 14:11:50
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Also, this.

Most Dangerous Jobs in the US

Though I will say better work conditions and more vigilance on the part of employers and employees alike would go a long, long way to reducing the danger in many of those jobs.

But unions are frowned upon, OSHA is laughed at, and paying for safer, newer equipment, more workers, or better training isn't worth it for the people at the top of companies if they can just pay a lawsuit here and there.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-02 14:12:51
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Ramyrez said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
I'd love to say it's just dumb guys being dumb uneducated guys but take a look at the tech field and silicon valley full of our most bright, arrogant punks and you'll see the same problem, different flavor.

The racism and sexism in the heart of our smartest doods has been well documented.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing or trying to say otherwise.

I'm just saying in the particular case of the garbage industry, the rank-and-file garbage truck drivers/pickup personnel are frequently not the brightest bulbs in the box, and expecting them to even suss a concept of gender equality might be asking a lot.
Creeps are creeps, regardless of their intelligence and/or job.

You will find men and women who demean the opposite sex pretty much at every job in the world.
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By Bloodrose 2014-10-02 14:13:50
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fonewear said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
What if most women don't join those professions, because there's not as many nefarious, grizzly, unkempt hoards of strawman feminists roaming the streets looking for an unsuspecting male to prey on like a pack of hyenas as you would like to think?

Astounding!
So let's ask the real question then.

What jobs are out there that women would like to work in but can't? And why they can't.

Lumberjack !
There are more female lumberjacks than male. Although, I think they prefer to be called "Lumber Jills"
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-02 14:14:53
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Bloodrose said: »
fonewear said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
What if most women don't join those professions, because there's not as many nefarious, grizzly, unkempt hoards of strawman feminists roaming the streets looking for an unsuspecting male to prey on like a pack of hyenas as you would like to think?

Astounding!
So let's ask the real question then.

What jobs are out there that women would like to work in but can't? And why they can't.

Lumberjack !
There are more female lumberjacks than male. Although, I think they prefer to be called "Lumber Jills"
Maybe in Canada.

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By Ramyrez 2014-10-02 14:16:24
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Bloodrose said: »
fonewear said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
What if most women don't join those professions, because there's not as many nefarious, grizzly, unkempt hoards of strawman feminists roaming the streets looking for an unsuspecting male to prey on like a pack of hyenas as you would like to think?

Astounding!
So let's ask the real question then.

What jobs are out there that women would like to work in but can't? And why they can't.

Lumberjack !
There are more female lumberjacks than male. Although, I think they prefer to be called "Lumber Jills"

Loggers definitely tend to be men in my neck of the woods, and I grew up in the Black Cherry Capital of the World.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-02 14:23:32
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Ramyrez said: »
Bloodrose said: »
fonewear said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
What if most women don't join those professions, because there's not as many nefarious, grizzly, unkempt hoards of strawman feminists roaming the streets looking for an unsuspecting male to prey on like a pack of hyenas as you would like to think?

Astounding!
So let's ask the real question then.

What jobs are out there that women would like to work in but can't? And why they can't.

Lumberjack !
There are more female lumberjacks than male. Although, I think they prefer to be called "Lumber Jills"

Loggers definitely tend to be men in my neck of the woods, and I grew up in the Black Cherry Capital of the World.
They are manly men in the US.

They are girly girls in Canada.

Didn't Monty Python ever teach you that????
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By Ramyrez 2014-10-02 14:27:40
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We would need a thread of its own for the topic of "Things I Learned from Monty Python".
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By Bloodrose 2014-10-02 14:31:52
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Ramyrez said: »
We would need a thread of its own for the topic of "Things I Learned from Monty Python".
Made
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By Nazrious 2014-10-02 14:55:59
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Bloodrose said: »
Ramyrez said: »
We would need a thread of its own for the topic of "Things I Learned from Monty Python".
Made


+1

This thread is so full of the lulz lets keep it going.

Then it and the Monty Python thread can have a baby and name it Damien and the world can come to a burning end.

In this Feminist Utopia all men are fixed with suction tubes directly on their privates that just suck and pump 24/7/365 till they die.

They of course have given consent to this, They were born Male thus Implied consent.

Besides since Jesus is in the afterlife these Femisist are just making males lives better by getting them there faster so they can drink beer and watch Football with good old JC.


@Fone

Da wife saw your avatar and is thinking of going as elvira for Halloween, so thanks a million for that. 8)
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-02 14:58:28
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Nazrious said: »
Bloodrose said: »
Ramyrez said: »
We would need a thread of its own for the topic of "Things I Learned from Monty Python".
Made


+1

This thread is so full of the lulz lets keep it going.

Then it and the Monty Python thread can have a baby and name it Damien and the world can come to a burning end.

In this Feminist Utopia all men are fixed with suction tubes directly on their privates that just suck and pump 24/7/365 till they die.

They of course have given consent to this, They were born Male thus Implied consent.

Besides since Jesus is in the afterlife these Femisist are just making males lives better by getting them there faster so they can drink beer and watch Football with good old JC.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-02 15:29:38
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Why is it risky? Do you have this happen to you often enough that it would be a problem? That's not why I use the word afriad at all.

It's not a concern for me. Quite frankly, I bring all this up because I'm wondering why it's an issue at all for you. Wild conjecture on your part aside there is nothing to show that this will lead to more false accusations and the main reason given is that these girls will only have a couple drinks and still be able to do it. Nothing in the law or any of the posts has lent any credence to that fear. You're the one making a leap based on your own "concerns" with nothing to actually back up any of the claims you have made.

Other than on these forums I don't think I've ever met or even heard of a guy who has "a girl is going to regret sleeping with me and report me for rape" in their top 100 things to worry about. Makes me wonder why the guys here are so worried about it.


This law will have virtually ZERO effect on me, I don't even live in California. That doesn't mean I cannot have an opinion on it nor does it make my opinion less valid than yours.

Why is it risky? I will spell it out for you again.

Are the vast majority of rape charges filed against men?
-Yes.

Are a percentage of those charges fabricated?
-Yes

Does this law enable fabricated charges against men to be made more easily?
-Yes

So from that we can suggest that this law will likely increase the number of false rape charges against men. Has it been proven yet? No. They JUST passed the law this week right?

Where are the piles upon piles of rape cases that are dismissed because a victim wasn't conscious enough to say no? Is anyone really suggesting that if some creep rapes you while you're passed out, that you can't bring him to court? Is there evidence of that anywhere?

All this law does is automatically turn areas that are currently grey into black.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-10-02 15:54:58
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
piles upon piles of rape
Sounds like a name of a Lifetime movie.
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-10-02 16:53:48
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
piles upon piles of rape
Sounds like a name of a Lifetime movie.
starring Candace Cameron as the rapee some dude in a black button up shirt as the rapist Randy Travis as the hero who catches the rapist and saves the farm all whilst on horseback and Toby Keith there to slow clap at the town meeting
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-10-02 17:03:26
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Swear ever since she left full house she can't even get a drink at school without being raped
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 09:05:32
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Why is it risky? Do you have this happen to you often enough that it would be a problem? That's not why I use the word afriad at all.

It's not a concern for me. Quite frankly, I bring all this up because I'm wondering why it's an issue at all for you. Wild conjecture on your part aside there is nothing to show that this will lead to more false accusations and the main reason given is that these girls will only have a couple drinks and still be able to do it. Nothing in the law or any of the posts has lent any credence to that fear. You're the one making a leap based on your own "concerns" with nothing to actually back up any of the claims you have made.

Other than on these forums I don't think I've ever met or even heard of a guy who has "a girl is going to regret sleeping with me and report me for rape" in their top 100 things to worry about. Makes me wonder why the guys here are so worried about it.


This law will have virtually ZERO effect on me, I don't even live in California. That doesn't mean I cannot have an opinion on it nor does it make my opinion less valid than yours.

Why is it risky? I will spell it out for you again.

Are the vast majority of rape charges filed against men?
-Yes.

Are a percentage of those charges fabricated?
-Yes

Does this law enable fabricated charges against men to be made more easily?
-Yes

So from that we can suggest that this law will likely increase the number of false rape charges against men. Has it been proven yet? No. They JUST passed the law this week right?

Where are the piles upon piles of rape cases that are dismissed because a victim wasn't conscious enough to say no? Is anyone really suggesting that if some creep rapes you while you're passed out, that you can't bring him to court? Is there evidence of that anywhere?

All this law does is automatically turn areas that are currently grey into black.
Yes the vast majority are against men because men committ the vast majority of rape.

Yes there are fabricated charges against some men.

No, this does nothing to make it easier to fabricate charges. Right this minute someone can go and make a false accusation in any state besides CA and you know what? The same things that would happen in CA would happen anywhere else.

You act like some woman cries rape in CA now and all of a sudden the man accused is in prison. All this law does is more clearly define what you can be busted for. You still have to prove everything.

So no. You can not suggest that the number of false allegations will increase based on this law.

There are plenty of those cases that are dismissed. out of the hundreds of thousands of rape cases every year there is something like a 3% conviction rate and only somewhere around 20% that even get to the point where they make an arrest. It's kind of humerous how you assume that all someone has to do is yell rape and 5 guys are immediately imprisoned.

The law should be black and white. The government should be able to clearly define the law and be able to uphold it as such. Idk why you'd want a lot of gray in the legal system.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-03 09:17:02
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does this law enable fabricated charges against men to be made more easily?
-Yes


What is your reasoning behind this? If the law states that having sex with someone who is incapacitated is now clearly rape, how is that enabling more fake rape charges?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 09:19:17
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does this law enable fabricated charges against men to be made more easily?
-Yes


What is your reasoning behind this? If the law states that having sex with someone who is incapacitated is now clearly rape, how is that enabling more fake rape charges?
It defines (broadly) that being incapacitated is the same as legally drunk.

Tell me, after having 2 beers, are you so drunk that you cannot make any choices about who you will sleep with or not?
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 09:25:48
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Nice edit King.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 09:26:56
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Nice edit King.
I wanted to be more clear in my thoughts.

I sometimes elaborate after I hit submit after I read what I wrote.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 09:29:00
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No, after two beers you most likely aren't. This law does nothing to convict people after two beers.

Let me guess... the next part you'll argue is that well the person will say they had a sip of beer and now claiming they are incapacited from alcohol use.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 09:30:51
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Nice edit King.
I wanted to be more clear in my thoughts.

I sometimes elaborate after I hit submit after I read what I wrote.
It had nothing to do with being more clear you're first statment was just flat out false as you claimed the bill defined it as legally intoxicated rather than incapacitated lol..
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 09:32:53
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
No, after two beers you most likely aren't. This law does nothing to convict people after two beers.

Let me guess... the next part you'll argue is that well the person will say they had a sip of beer and now claiming they are incapacited from alcohol use.
2 beers is the legal definition of (for most people) intoxication.

Since this law (broadly) defines being incapacitated as the same as intoxication, and that consent cannot be given while incapacitated, all the prosecution has to do is establish that the victim had enough alcohol to be legally drunk and they got a case.

The issue is how broad the definitions are.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-03 09:34:52
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does this law enable fabricated charges against men to be made more easily?
-Yes


What is your reasoning behind this? If the law states that having sex with someone who is incapacitated is now clearly rape, how is that enabling more fake rape charges?
It defines (broadly) that being incapacitated is the same as legally drunk.

Tell me, after having 2 beers, are you so drunk that you cannot make any choices about who you will sleep with or not?

Uh, no, that's not what it says.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 09:36:51
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2 beers? Are you hanging out with 13 y/o's stealing booze from their parents?

The law does no such thing. The definitions are not broad. Incapacitated is clearly defined.

Let me ask you this though. What do you want to see on this law in terms of the definition of incapacitated that would ease your worries?
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-03 09:58:49
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
2 beers? Are you hanging out with 13 y/o's stealing booze from their parents?

The law does no such thing. The definitions are not broad. Incapacitated is clearly defined.

Let me ask you this though. What do you want to see on this law in terms of the definition of incapacitated that would ease your worries?

What other definition would make sense in the context of the law? Incapacitated is a physical state. Intoxication is a state of impaired judgement and reflexes, Incapacitation is a state deprived of physical power, awareness, or consciousness. They aren't synonyms or antonyms, they're different things.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-10-03 10:02:03
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
2 beers? Are you hanging out with 13 y/o's stealing booze from their parents?

The law does no such thing. The definitions are not broad. Incapacitated is clearly defined.

Let me ask you this though. What do you want to see on this law in terms of the definition of incapacitated that would ease your worries?

What other definition would make sense in the context of the law? Incapacitated is a physical state. Intoxication is a state of impaired judgement and reflexes, Incapacitation is a state deprived of physical power, awareness, or consciousness. They aren't synonyms or antonyms, they're different things.
I'm not arguing against that.

King seems to have this problem that he thinks some can go into court and argue that two beers makes them legally incapacitated. I'm merely curious as to what he thinks needs to be on there to make him feel comfortable with it.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-03 10:11:07
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
2 beers? Are you hanging out with 13 y/o's stealing booze from their parents?

The law does no such thing. The definitions are not broad. Incapacitated is clearly defined.

Let me ask you this though. What do you want to see on this law in terms of the definition of incapacitated that would ease your worries?

What other definition would make sense in the context of the law? Incapacitated is a physical state. Intoxication is a state of impaired judgement and reflexes, Incapacitation is a state deprived of physical power, awareness, or consciousness. They aren't synonyms or antonyms, they're different things.
I'm not arguing against that.

King seems to have this problem that he thinks some can go into court and argue that two beers makes them legally incapacitated. I'm merely curious as to what he thinks needs to be on there to make him feel comfortable with it.

It's possible, look at some of the defenses that have been used over the years. That's the role of the courts, to decide on challenges to the current understanding of the law. I don't think any court would actually rule that "legally intoxicated" could be considered incapacitated, there's language specifically excluding intoxication in the law, but if they did, the law could be amended or changed based on that. Laws are a framework, court decisions set precedent as to the application of the law.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 10:15:51
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does this law enable fabricated charges against men to be made more easily?
-Yes


What is your reasoning behind this? If the law states that having sex with someone who is incapacitated is now clearly rape, how is that enabling more fake rape charges?
It defines (broadly) that being incapacitated is the same as legally drunk.

Tell me, after having 2 beers, are you so drunk that you cannot make any choices about who you will sleep with or not?

Uh, no, that's not what it says.
Again, I said broadly and is open for interpretation

Quote:
The complainant was incapacitated due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication, so that the complainant could not understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity.

California legal intoxication limit

Quote:
California's 0.08% BAC Limit

How many beers does it take to get to .08% again?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 10:17:12
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Laws are a framework, court decisions set precedent as to the application of the law.
Which leads to the real issue.

How many false rape charge claims will it take to create a definition of the intoxication for this law?
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-03 10:26:27
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does this law enable fabricated charges against men to be made more easily?
-Yes


What is your reasoning behind this? If the law states that having sex with someone who is incapacitated is now clearly rape, how is that enabling more fake rape charges?
It defines (broadly) that being incapacitated is the same as legally drunk.

Tell me, after having 2 beers, are you so drunk that you cannot make any choices about who you will sleep with or not?

Uh, no, that's not what it says.
Again, I said broadly and is open for interpretation

Quote:
The complainant was incapacitated due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication, so that the complainant could not understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity.

California legal intoxication limit

Quote:
California's 0.08% BAC Limit

How many beers does it take to get to .08% again?

Intoxication and incapacitation are 2 different things, not just 2 different words. Do you not understand that the law states "incapacitation" while you continue to quote legal limits for driving while intoxicated? People are routinely arrested for DUI that have blood alcohol of .3+ and they are not incapacitated.
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