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Unsoloable Mobs?
 Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 17:26:15
I view it as once you die and reraise you are no longer you. You are a new life attempting the fight. That is why I call it not a legitimate solo.
This is soloing it with X amount of deaths... if you want to get into the philosophy of personal identify then the second you have a different amount of HP or you are at a different positional coordinate... you are no longer who you were the moment before
And during the anniversary campaign, when you check your deaths, doesn't it say "YOU have been KO'd 57346 times?"
Not even getting into a KO vs. a death lol
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 17:28:30
Another way to look at it is this:
Situation 1. You only cast Bio2 on the NM. Then you die. Reraise. And cast Bio2 again, die, Reraise, etc. until the NM is dead. The only damage you did was with Bio2.
Situation 2. First person casts Bio2, dies. Bio2 wears off and second person casts Bio2 then dies. Bio2 wears off and third person casts Bio2 then dies, etc. Then it comes back to the original person's turn when the NM is at 1% and he casts Bio2 and the NM dies. The only damage done by all these people was with Bio2.
Situation 1 and Situation 2 are identical for all intensive purposes.
False. Situation 1 involved one character... situation 2 involved 3.
This is a solo vs a trio
[+]
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 17:29:22
Another way to look at it is this:
Situation 1. You only cast Bio2 on the NM. Then you die. Reraise. And cast Bio2 again, die, Reraise, etc. until the NM is dead. The only damage you did was with Bio2.
Situation 2. First person casts Bio2, dies. Bio2 wears off and second person casts Bio2 then dies. Bio2 wears off and third person casts Bio2 then dies, etc. Then it comes back to the original person's turn when the NM is at 1% and he casts Bio2 and the NM dies. The only damage done by all these people was with Bio2.
Situation 1 and Situation 2 are identical for all intensive purposes.
False. Situation 1 involved one character... situation 2 involved 3.
This is a solo vs a trio
And what if I died 109 times? I 110-manned it?
 Leviathan.Protey
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2015-09-07 17:42:16
Another way to look at it is this:
Situation 1. You only cast Bio2 on the NM. Then you die. Reraise. And cast Bio2 again, die, Reraise, etc. until the NM is dead. The only damage you did was with Bio2.
Situation 2. First person casts Bio2, dies. Bio2 wears off and second person casts Bio2 then dies. Bio2 wears off and third person casts Bio2 then dies, etc. Then it comes back to the original person's turn when the NM is at 1% and he casts Bio2 and the NM dies. The only damage done by all these people was with Bio2.
Situation 1 and Situation 2 are identical for all intensive purposes.
False. Situation 1 involved one character... situation 2 involved 3.
This is a solo vs a trio
What I said is true. They are the same for all intents and purposes. What's the difference between the two situations? Doesn't matter if situation 1 was the same person reraising compared to situation 2 with other people doing the same thing. It's just throwing bodies at it one at a time. Doesn't matter if it's your body or someone else's because it's doing the same thing.
Leviathan.Protey
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2015-09-07 17:42:33
Another way to look at it is this:
Situation 1. You only cast Bio2 on the NM. Then you die. Reraise. And cast Bio2 again, die, Reraise, etc. until the NM is dead. The only damage you did was with Bio2.
Situation 2. First person casts Bio2, dies. Bio2 wears off and second person casts Bio2 then dies. Bio2 wears off and third person casts Bio2 then dies, etc. Then it comes back to the original person's turn when the NM is at 1% and he casts Bio2 and the NM dies. The only damage done by all these people was with Bio2.
Situation 1 and Situation 2 are identical for all intensive purposes.
False. Situation 1 involved one character... situation 2 involved 3.
This is a solo vs a trio
And what if I died 109 times? I 110-manned it?
Correct.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-09-07 17:47:46
If it's inside an instance where the mob cannot be stolen, any amount of deaths is irrelevant. You're killing it and obtaining drops by yourself.
If there's potential for the mob to be stolen, bio isn't a valid solo strategy.
Anyone can agree that it's more impressive to solo without dying, but it's pretty stupid to insist it's not solo. By that logic, what about 75 solos that required a death to pull(followed by a weakened fight), such as marquis orias?
Edit: Also, the game has a built in penalty for dying. It's pretty severe. If that didn't exist, you might almost have a point.
[+]
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 17:51:37
Another way to look at it is this:
Situation 1. You only cast Bio2 on the NM. Then you die. Reraise. And cast Bio2 again, die, Reraise, etc. until the NM is dead. The only damage you did was with Bio2.
Situation 2. First person casts Bio2, dies. Bio2 wears off and second person casts Bio2 then dies. Bio2 wears off and third person casts Bio2 then dies, etc. Then it comes back to the original person's turn when the NM is at 1% and he casts Bio2 and the NM dies. The only damage done by all these people was with Bio2.
Situation 1 and Situation 2 are identical for all intensive purposes.
False. Situation 1 involved one character... situation 2 involved 3.
This is a solo vs a trio
And what if I died 109 times? I 110-manned it?
Correct.
Clearly you just want to be different. The fact is, it isn't even a death. Look at FFXI lore. When my HP reaches 0, I am simply knocked out, not dead.
You are holding onto your definition of solo. Why, so you don't have to admit you were wrong?
You will simply continue to hold onto it as you will always believe (or pretend to) it is a matter of perspective when the truth is, your definition falls short both in:
1. common sense and common understanding of the game- almost nobody playing the game would say a death implies a new character, or ever even humor the idea of a 110-man kill...
and
2. lore- see above (which borderline defies game logic)
I am all for thoughtful debate, but you are trying too hard not to be wrong and have stretched this out way too far.
I wish I could look back at your personal logs to see if you ever referred to a 19+ man kill....
Leviathan.Protey
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2015-09-07 17:57:08
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »If it's inside an instance where the mob cannot be stolen, any amount of deaths is irrelevant. You're killing it and obtaining drops by yourself.
If there's potential for the mob to be stolen, bio isn't a valid solo strategy.
Anyone can agree that it's more impressive to solo without dying, but it's pretty stupid to insist it's not solo. By that logic, what about 75 solos that required a death to pull(followed by a weakened fight), such as marquis orias?
Drops are irrelevant.
Potential for mob to be stolen is irrelevant. That is not the scenario being depicted.
Don't consider those legitimate solos in your example.
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 17:58:13
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »By that logic, what about 75 solos that required a death to pull(followed by a weakened fight), such as marquis orias?
The death= 1 man to the count, duh. At best you are 2-manning it... by yourself somehow.
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1132
By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-09-07 17:58:36
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »If it's inside an instance where the mob cannot be stolen, any amount of deaths is irrelevant. You're killing it and obtaining drops by yourself.
If there's potential for the mob to be stolen, bio isn't a valid solo strategy.
Anyone can agree that it's more impressive to solo without dying, but it's pretty stupid to insist it's not solo. By that logic, what about 75 solos that required a death to pull(followed by a weakened fight), such as marquis orias?
Edit: Also, the game has a built in penalty for dying. It's pretty severe. If that didn't exist, you might almost have a point.
This is how I feel. The Eschan Dragons are a pretty good example of this. If you could somehow provide proof that you did indeed solo it all the way down, even through the 30 minute time outs and repops, I don't think it matters how many times you died doing it so long as you could prove without a doubt that you did it completely solo.
But that's impossible as of right now and therefor irrelevant. So even if it could be THEORETICALLY soloed via this method, it's impossible to do in practice, and until proof exists of someone doing so, it's irrelevant that it could be theoretically.
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 18:00:55
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »By that logic, what about 75 solos that required a death to pull(followed by a weakened fight), such as marquis orias?
The death= 1 man to the count, duh. At best you are 2-manning it... by yourself somehow.
Or... maybe if you let it heal to 100% and start over, it is a solo?
But then... what if you solo a mob until it uses a 2hr and then die... let it regen to 100% knowing it can't use it's 2hr again?
Solo? Let's ask the expert.
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 18:04:23
Another way to look at it is this:
Situation 1. You only cast Bio2 on the NM. Then you die. Reraise. And cast Bio2 again, die, Reraise, etc. until the NM is dead. The only damage you did was with Bio2.
Situation 2. First person casts Bio2, dies. Bio2 wears off and second person casts Bio2 then dies. Bio2 wears off and third person casts Bio2 then dies, etc. Then it comes back to the original person's turn when the NM is at 1% and he casts Bio2 and the NM dies. The only damage done by all these people was with Bio2.
Situation 1 and Situation 2 are identical for all intensive purposes.
False. Situation 1 involved one character... situation 2 involved 3.
This is a solo vs a trio
What I said is true. They are the same for all intents and purposes. What's the difference between the two situations? Doesn't matter if situation 1 was the same person reraising compared to situation 2 with other people doing the same thing. It's just throwing bodies at it one at a time. Doesn't matter if it's your body or someone else's because it's doing the same thing.
Again, false. Now that first person can afk for a few minutes while 2 others use bio 2 (or can heal up for that matter).
the difference is, that ONE person would have to keep bio on him/herself... which is WAY harder than alternating...
Not that it matters... it is still 1 vs. 3 people- which is the point. Just showing ANOTHER difference.
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 18:08:12
Maat is a solo fight (at least it was)
Player 1: I beat Maat
Player 2: Nice, he is a hard solo on RDM
Player 1: I didn't solo him...
Leviathan.Protey
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2015-09-07 18:10:18
Another way to look at it is this:
Situation 1. You only cast Bio2 on the NM. Then you die. Reraise. And cast Bio2 again, die, Reraise, etc. until the NM is dead. The only damage you did was with Bio2.
Situation 2. First person casts Bio2, dies. Bio2 wears off and second person casts Bio2 then dies. Bio2 wears off and third person casts Bio2 then dies, etc. Then it comes back to the original person's turn when the NM is at 1% and he casts Bio2 and the NM dies. The only damage done by all these people was with Bio2.
Situation 1 and Situation 2 are identical for all intensive purposes.
False. Situation 1 involved one character... situation 2 involved 3.
This is a solo vs a trio
And what if I died 109 times? I 110-manned it?
Correct.
Clearly you just want to be different. The fact is, it isn't even a death. Look at FFXI lore. When my HP reaches 0, I am simply knocked out, not dead.
You are holding onto your definition of solo. Why, so you don't have to admit you were wrong?
You will simply continue to hold onto it as you will always believe (or pretend to) it is a matter of perspective when the truth is, your definition falls short both in:
1. common sense and common understanding of the game- almost nobody playing the game would say a death implies a new character, or ever even humor the idea of a 110-man kill...
and
2. lore- see above (which borderline defies game logic)
I am all for thoughtful debate, but you are trying too hard not to be wrong and have stretched this out way too far.
I wish I could look back at your personal logs to see if you ever referred to a 19+ man kill....
Your personal attacks are illogical. I did not say a death implies a new character, I said it implies a new life. A second life = a second attempt = not solo. You are not doing one attempt at the fight, you are doing multiple attempts by dieing and reraising. That is not solo. The only way multiple attempts at a fight could be considered solo is if after dieing you return to the fight with the mob at 100% and it has all its abilities still (i.e.: if it used 1-hour, it has it back again). Then the second attempt would be the solo, not the first.
Leviathan.Protey
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2015-09-07 18:14:57
Again, false. Now that first person can afk for a few minutes while 2 others use bio 2 (or can heal up for that matter).
the difference is, that ONE person would have to keep bio on him/herself... which is WAY harder than alternating...
Not that it matters... it is still 1 vs. 3 people- which is the point. Just showing ANOTHER difference.
Why would someone have to keep bio on him/herself? that makes no sense. It doesn't matter that the other people are healing up. All that is being done is Bio2 on the mob. It doesn't matter that one person reraising or multiple people did it, the effect is the same.
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 18:18:36
Another way to look at it is this:
Situation 1. You only cast Bio2 on the NM. Then you die. Reraise. And cast Bio2 again, die, Reraise, etc. until the NM is dead. The only damage you did was with Bio2.
Situation 2. First person casts Bio2, dies. Bio2 wears off and second person casts Bio2 then dies. Bio2 wears off and third person casts Bio2 then dies, etc. Then it comes back to the original person's turn when the NM is at 1% and he casts Bio2 and the NM dies. The only damage done by all these people was with Bio2.
Situation 1 and Situation 2 are identical for all intensive purposes.
False. Situation 1 involved one character... situation 2 involved 3.
This is a solo vs a trio
And what if I died 109 times? I 110-manned it?
Correct.
Clearly you just want to be different. The fact is, it isn't even a death. Look at FFXI lore. When my HP reaches 0, I am simply knocked out, not dead.
You are holding onto your definition of solo. Why, so you don't have to admit you were wrong?
You will simply continue to hold onto it as you will always believe (or pretend to) it is a matter of perspective when the truth is, your definition falls short both in:
1. common sense and common understanding of the game- almost nobody playing the game would say a death implies a new character, or ever even humor the idea of a 110-man kill...
and
2. lore- see above (which borderline defies game logic)
I am all for thoughtful debate, but you are trying too hard not to be wrong and have stretched this out way too far.
I wish I could look back at your personal logs to see if you ever referred to a 19+ man kill....
Your personal attacks are illogical. I did not say a death implies a new character, I said it implies a new life. A second life = a second attempt = not solo. You are not doing one attempt at the fight, you are doing multiple attempts by dieing and reraising. That is not solo. The only way multiple attempts at a fight could be considered solo is if after dieing you return to the fight with the mob at 100% and it has all its abilities still (i.e.: if it used 1-hour, it has it back again). Then the second attempt would be the solo, not the first.
I do apologize for any personal attacks, though they aren't illogical.
Again, it is NOT a death according to the game. It is a KO. Not a second life. That is one point.
The second, and more important point, is the practical one. When you are the only one referring to something this way, then what purpose does it serve other than to be different? Believe it, but understand it goes against basic conversational implications.
I could understand if there was some grounds on which to believe it- but no such thing exists (again, a knock out is not a death).
I am actually quite interested in looking at the dialogue of the GEO AF3 quest. The 135 (I think) fight is a SOLO GEO fight.
Does the dialogue use the term "solo," and if you die does the mob instantly depop?
Not that this would be the end-all proof, but it could help.
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1132
By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-09-07 18:19:37
Another way to look at it is this:
Situation 1. You only cast Bio2 on the NM. Then you die. Reraise. And cast Bio2 again, die, Reraise, etc. until the NM is dead. The only damage you did was with Bio2.
Situation 2. First person casts Bio2, dies. Bio2 wears off and second person casts Bio2 then dies. Bio2 wears off and third person casts Bio2 then dies, etc. Then it comes back to the original person's turn when the NM is at 1% and he casts Bio2 and the NM dies. The only damage done by all these people was with Bio2.
Situation 1 and Situation 2 are identical for all intensive purposes.
False. Situation 1 involved one character... situation 2 involved 3.
This is a solo vs a trio
And what if I died 109 times? I 110-manned it?
Correct.
Clearly you just want to be different. The fact is, it isn't even a death. Look at FFXI lore. When my HP reaches 0, I am simply knocked out, not dead.
You are holding onto your definition of solo. Why, so you don't have to admit you were wrong?
You will simply continue to hold onto it as you will always believe (or pretend to) it is a matter of perspective when the truth is, your definition falls short both in:
1. common sense and common understanding of the game- almost nobody playing the game would say a death implies a new character, or ever even humor the idea of a 110-man kill...
and
2. lore- see above (which borderline defies game logic)
I am all for thoughtful debate, but you are trying too hard not to be wrong and have stretched this out way too far.
I wish I could look back at your personal logs to see if you ever referred to a 19+ man kill....
Your personal attacks are illogical. I did not say a death implies a new character, I said it implies a new life. A second life = a second attempt = not solo. You are not doing one attempt at the fight, you are doing multiple attempts by dieing and reraising. That is not solo. The only way multiple attempts at a fight could be considered solo is if after dieing you return to the fight with the mob at 100% and it has all its abilities still (i.e.: if it used 1-hour, it has it back again). Then the second attempt would be the solo, not the first.
You aren't dying though. You're getting knocked out. Kinda like a boxer. Just because a boxer gets knocked down doesn't mean they lost. It's part of the rules that allows for it. The rules of FFXI allow for getting knocked out and raising up again.
Killing something solo means you did it by yourself using only the tools the game provides. I don't think this applies to dying and zoning, however. It's quite difficult to prove that noone else touched the mob during the time it took you to leave and come back .
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 18:23:41
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »Another way to look at it is this:
Situation 1. You only cast Bio2 on the NM. Then you die. Reraise. And cast Bio2 again, die, Reraise, etc. until the NM is dead. The only damage you did was with Bio2.
Situation 2. First person casts Bio2, dies. Bio2 wears off and second person casts Bio2 then dies. Bio2 wears off and third person casts Bio2 then dies, etc. Then it comes back to the original person's turn when the NM is at 1% and he casts Bio2 and the NM dies. The only damage done by all these people was with Bio2.
Situation 1 and Situation 2 are identical for all intensive purposes.
False. Situation 1 involved one character... situation 2 involved 3.
This is a solo vs a trio
And what if I died 109 times? I 110-manned it?
Correct.
Clearly you just want to be different. The fact is, it isn't even a death. Look at FFXI lore. When my HP reaches 0, I am simply knocked out, not dead.
You are holding onto your definition of solo. Why, so you don't have to admit you were wrong?
You will simply continue to hold onto it as you will always believe (or pretend to) it is a matter of perspective when the truth is, your definition falls short both in:
1. common sense and common understanding of the game- almost nobody playing the game would say a death implies a new character, or ever even humor the idea of a 110-man kill...
and
2. lore- see above (which borderline defies game logic)
I am all for thoughtful debate, but you are trying too hard not to be wrong and have stretched this out way too far.
I wish I could look back at your personal logs to see if you ever referred to a 19+ man kill....
Your personal attacks are illogical. I did not say a death implies a new character, I said it implies a new life. A second life = a second attempt = not solo. You are not doing one attempt at the fight, you are doing multiple attempts by dieing and reraising. That is not solo. The only way multiple attempts at a fight could be considered solo is if after dieing you return to the fight with the mob at 100% and it has all its abilities still (i.e.: if it used 1-hour, it has it back again). Then the second attempt would be the solo, not the first.
You aren't dying though. You're getting knocked out. Kinda like a boxer. Just because a boxer gets knocked down doesn't mean they lost. It's part of the rules that allows for it. The rules of FFXI allow for getting knocked out and raising up again.
Killing something solo means you did it by yourself using only the tools the game provides. I don't think this applies to dying and zoning, however. It's quite difficult to prove that noone else touched the mob during the time it took you to leave and come back .
Well, to be fair, it was pretty easy to do Ix'Drg back in the day and zone DoT knowing nobody was there, lol...
Not to complicate things...
The point is, he is defining a solo differently... for some reason. Have you done the GEO solo AF3 quest? I wonder how it is worded.
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 18:33:10
Back on topic... can a BLU solo Provenance Watcher with 5 displacers?
Leviathan.Protey
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2015-09-07 18:36:28
I do apologize for any personal attacks, though they aren't illogical.
Again, it is NOT a death according to the game. It is a KO. Not a second life. That is one point.
The second, and more important point, is the practical one. When you are the only one referring to something this way, then what purpose does it serve other than to be different? Believe it, but understand it goes against basic conversational implications.
I could understand if there was some grounds on which to believe it- but no such thing exists (again, a knock out is not a death).
I am actually quite interested in looking at the dialogue of the GEO AF3 quest. The 135 (I think) fight is a SOLO GEO fight.
Does the dialogue use the term "solo," and if you die does the mob instantly depop?
Not that this would be the end-all proof, but it could help.
By definition attacking a person instead of their argument is a logical fallacy.
There are NMs that instantly depop if you die.
I suppose the difference between us is that you call "solo" just yourself attacking an NM. I call "solo" a singular attempt at killing the NM by yourself.
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 18:38:13
I do apologize for any personal attacks, though they aren't illogical.
Again, it is NOT a death according to the game. It is a KO. Not a second life. That is one point.
The second, and more important point, is the practical one. When you are the only one referring to something this way, then what purpose does it serve other than to be different? Believe it, but understand it goes against basic conversational implications.
I could understand if there was some grounds on which to believe it- but no such thing exists (again, a knock out is not a death).
I am actually quite interested in looking at the dialogue of the GEO AF3 quest. The 135 (I think) fight is a SOLO GEO fight.
Does the dialogue use the term "solo," and if you die does the mob instantly depop?
Not that this would be the end-all proof, but it could help.
By definition attacking a person instead of their argument is a logical fallacy.
There are NMs that instantly depop if you die.
I suppose the difference between us is that you call "solo" just yourself attacking an NM. I call "solo" a singular attempt at killing the NM.
Yes, we are at odds over a definition, so maybe now the discussion should turn to which of the two is the most reasonable to believe? In another thread of course... or has this dead horse sailed its course?
Leviathan.Protey
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2015-09-07 18:40:29
Back on topic... can a BLU solo Provenance Watcher with 5 displacers?
can't use displacers in provenance.
Cerberus.Lasareth
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 334
By Cerberus.Lasareth 2015-09-07 18:41:35
Back on topic... can a BLU solo Provenance Watcher with 5 displacers?
can't use displacers in provenance.
You can use displacers.
You can't use cells.
Leviathan.Protey
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2015-09-07 18:42:59
Cerberus.Lasareth said: »Back on topic... can a BLU solo Provenance Watcher with 5 displacers?
can't use displacers in provenance.
You can use displacers.
You can't use cells.
where do you trade the displacers? I tried trading to the crystal where you enter and it wouldn't let me.
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 18:43:10
Back on topic... can a BLU solo Provenance Watcher with 5 displacers?
can't use displacers in provenance. Cerberus.Lasareth said: »Back on topic... can a BLU solo Provenance Watcher with 5 displacers?
can't use displacers in provenance.
You can use displacers.
You can't use cells.
Yeah, I can confirm you can use displacers... I was able to 2-box the 3 cat fights as BST and BLM using 5... and I got the message when I entered that the enemies were greatly weakened.
Leviathan.Protey
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2015-09-07 18:44:04
I do apologize for any personal attacks, though they aren't illogical.
Again, it is NOT a death according to the game. It is a KO. Not a second life. That is one point.
The second, and more important point, is the practical one. When you are the only one referring to something this way, then what purpose does it serve other than to be different? Believe it, but understand it goes against basic conversational implications.
I could understand if there was some grounds on which to believe it- but no such thing exists (again, a knock out is not a death).
I am actually quite interested in looking at the dialogue of the GEO AF3 quest. The 135 (I think) fight is a SOLO GEO fight.
Does the dialogue use the term "solo," and if you die does the mob instantly depop?
Not that this would be the end-all proof, but it could help.
By definition attacking a person instead of their argument is a logical fallacy.
There are NMs that instantly depop if you die.
I suppose the difference between us is that you call "solo" just yourself attacking an NM. I call "solo" a singular attempt at killing the NM.
Yes, we are at odds over a definition, so maybe now the discussion should turn to which of the two is the most reasonable to believe? In another thread of course... or has this dead horse sailed its course?
Pretty much. Will have to let the OP decide.
Cerberus.Lasareth
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 334
By Cerberus.Lasareth 2015-09-07 18:44:12
There is a spatial displacement or whatever it's called on the island, you trade the displacers to that, then you have the option of using them when you talk to the protocrystal
I think you can actually trade the displacers to any of the distortions (any Voidwatch NM areas), and will still have the option to use them on talking to the crystal.
Bahamut.Eorphere
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 386
By Bahamut.Eorphere 2015-09-07 18:44:15
Cerberus.Lasareth said: »Back on topic... can a BLU solo Provenance Watcher with 5 displacers?
can't use displacers in provenance.
You can use displacers.
You can't use cells.
where do you trade the displacers? I tried trading to the crystal where you enter and it wouldn't let me.
You trade the red glowing thing (forget the name) where you enter... it is the thing you usually use to start any other VW fight.
Hey guys, it's been a while since anyone's used the HNM term anymore and although I know many regard its meaning to be 'Honorary/Honorific Notorious Monster' and so it should be awarded to any monster that awards a title, but I feel this isn't the best way to use the label anymore.
So I was thinking of criteria that could be used for these monsters and, as there are no 18-man-required bosses anymore (or even 6-man-required bosses), the only criteria I could think of is that the monster can't be soloable. So here's my question to you all:
What monsters today are still, under any conditions, completely unsoloable?
Here are the rules:
1. No help from ANY other player of ANY kind, this includes not just supplementing damage and buffs/debuffs, but also includes players who take damage as a tank or to help mitigate AoE split-damage attacks, or who utilize game mechanics to assist the player attempting a solo in any way.
2. No Trust or Adventuring Fellows, this DOES includes Unity Concord NPCs but DOES NOT include Avatars, Spirits, Wyverns, Puppets, Beasts or Luopans summoned or called by the player.
3. All videos submitted must contain the entire fight, otherwise we cannot be sure that the player has not had assistance beforehand. The clock starts on the first attack (by the player, pets or the enemy) and ends when either the enemy's HP runs out or, in some cases, when the enemy's death animation begins.
4. Videos of fights must be recorded on one of the officially-supported non-testing Square Enix Servers, these include and are limited to Bahamut, Shiva, Phoenix, Carbuncle, Fenrir, Sylph, Valefor, Leviathan, Odin, Quetzalcoatl, Siren, Ragnarok, Cerberus, Bismarck, Lakshmi and Asura.
5. All fights must be relevant to their said areas, this means in cases where the same NM can be fought in different places at different strength levels (i.e the Ark Angels) then entry into the battlefield and the loot dropped as the mob is defeated must be shown in the video to verify that the correct fight is indeed taking place in the right place.
Undefeated: 0
This is a list of all mobs in the game that currently are thought to have never been downed. With any tactics, by any number of people.
There are currently no undefeated monsters in FFXI.
Unsoloed: 27
This is the definitive list of all mobs that have not been soloed even once. As soon as video evidence of a successful solo is published and the evidence has been deemed viable, the mob will be moved down to the Honourable Mentions section of the post.
Vagary - 1
Unity - 5
Escha T2 - 3
Escha T3 - 4
Escha HELM - 7
Escha Sky HNM - 5
Domain Invasion - 1
High-Tier Battlefields - 1
Honourable Mentions
This is the list of all mobs once thought completely unsoloable. The easier solos are typically at the top of the list and the harder ones are typically at the bottom. Please note that although it has been proven that the mobs below can be soloed, in most cases a very specific job/equipment setup has been used and the players able to solo the mobs have demonstrated a high degree of skill and knowledge in the job.
Best Solo Jobs
This is a list of the best jobs for soloing, organized from top to bottom on how many first solos and best times have made their way onto the Honourable Mentions leaderboard.
| Position . |
Job . |
Solos . |
Top Soloer . |
| 1st |
Scholar |
112 (42.75%) |
Mischief |
| 2nd |
Beastmaster |
86 (29.39%) |
Beaztmaster |
| 3rd |
Red Mage |
54 (22.14%) |
Hyugaji |
| 4th |
Summoner |
7 (2.67%) |
Papesse |
| 5th |
Blue Mage |
6 (1.53%) |
Spicyryan |
| 6th |
Puppetmaster |
1 (0.38%) |
Trulusia |
| 6th |
Samurai |
1 (0.38%) |
Avdark |
| 6th |
Rune Fencer |
1 (0.38%) |
Hyugaji |
Top Soloers
This is a list of the top soloers, worked out by the total number of their solos across all jobs.
| Position . |
Name . |
Solos . |
Main Job . |
| 1st |
Beaztmaster |
81 |
Beastmaster |
| 2nd |
Mischief |
73 |
Scholar |
| 3rd |
Hiep |
40 |
Scholar |
| 4th |
Hyugaji |
31 |
Red Mage |
| 5th |
Protey |
17 |
Red Mage |
| 6th |
Papesse |
7 |
Summoner |
| 7th |
Pokkun |
6 |
Red Mage |
| 8th |
Spicyryan |
4 |
Blue Mage |
| 9th |
Ryuotas |
2 |
Red Mage |
| 10th |
Trulusia |
1 |
Puppetmaster |
| 10th |
Nigosh |
1 |
Beastmaster |
| 10th |
Upbeat |
1 |
Beastmaster |
| 10th |
Avdark |
1 |
Samurai |
|
|
