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Boost in damage to useless weaponskills.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-06-15 08:01:36
bow sam shits on everything in ceizak, just because dnc and blu can compete with mnk in one (SINGULAR) zone doesn't mean they're competitive dd
Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-06-15 09:02:39
And it's largely because people pretend their job isn't woefully inadequate that we rarely see adjustments necessary for balance
Lakshmi.Byrth
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Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6409
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2014-06-15 09:09:12
And it's largely because people pretend their job isn't woefully inadequate that we rarely see adjustments necessary for balance
WAT R U TALKN AYBOT?
SMN IS BETS DD!!!
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4307
By Asura.Ackeronll 2014-06-15 09:14:21
And it's largely because people pretend their job isn't woefully inadequate that we rarely see adjustments necessary for balance
WAT R U TALKN AYBOT?
SMN IS BETS DD!!!
Yo that SMN Delve thread changed my life!
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 95
By Sylph.Limlight 2014-06-15 09:34:49
ya'll are just talking CRAZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY now
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-06-15 09:35:19
And it's largely because people pretend their job isn't woefully inadequate that we rarely see adjustments necessary for balance
Overall, I don't want BLU to keep up with MNK, it has tools that MNK doesn't. I don't want SAM to hit quite as hard as DRK, because SAM has utility that DRK does not. Balance doesn't necessarily mean "insert slashing DD", it means making every job have a use. We just have too many jobs and an inflexible playerbase. ***does need fixing, though.
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Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-06-15 09:48:27
"Utility" always has been and always will be a gigantic cop-out buzzword. If the "utility" doesn't make them as/more desirable than the status quo, it's irrelevant. Most jobs do not have a use juxtaposed to their competition, they're simply good enough that people grow complacent.
Lookin' at you, every one-handed and hybrid job
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-06-15 09:50:52
"Utility" always has been and always will be a gigantic cop-out buzzword. If the "utility" doesn't make them as/more desirable than the status quo, it's irrelevant.
Utility from the standpoint that SAM can do large amounts of ranged/piercing damage and has a stupid fast TP accumulation... DRK swings a GS real hard.
Edit: Why is MNK such a favored DD overall? Utility: high HP pool, survivability, formless strikes. It's not because they do the most DMG, it's because they stay alive and can exploit mob weaknesses. That's utility.
Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-06-15 09:58:06
Do you honestly think I was asking you to justify SAM, lol
Try PUP, DNC, SMN, NIN, THF, or BST
BLU barely hangs on because it multi-attacks a lot and has Requiescat
WAR, DRG, and DRK are competitive, but not enough to warrant their use over MNK's actual utility(re: proper context for this word), or SAM's ability to meet multiple zone requirements(again: this is utility)
The fact that this all needs explaining is the problem
Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-06-15 09:59:57
Quoting loses its luster when you don't read the quote. If the utility does not make them as/more desirable, it's irrelevant.
Spoilers: the things you listed make it more desirable.
Lakshmi.Byrth
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Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 6409
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2014-06-15 10:12:01
but curing waltz, bro!
bro?
..... bro?
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Carbuncle.Dagget
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 85
By Carbuncle.Dagget 2014-06-15 10:21:08
"Utility" always has been and always will be a gigantic cop-out buzzword. If the "utility" doesn't make them as/more desirable than the status quo, it's irrelevant. Most jobs do not have a use juxtaposed to their competition, they're simply good enough that people grow complacent.
Lookin' at you, every one-handed and hybrid job
Basically this.
The only "Utility" that any job not MNK WAR SAM really brings, is NIN being able to survive things most jobs wouldn't.
As your actual source of damage for 99% of content theres no good reason to bring anything other than these 3 DDs unless you're 18.
Monk has an insane DPS:survivability ratio with magic damage, WAR is the king of 1 minute fights and SAMs straight damage is pretty much untouchable outside of MS/BR zergs.
Edit: Ranger tomfoolery excluded
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-06-15 10:30:59
Quoting loses its luster when you don't read the quote. If the utility does not make them as/more desirable, it's irrelevant.
Spoilers: the things you listed make it more desirable.
claiming a deeper meaning doesn't mean it's there. Those traits make those jobs as/more desirable in those situations. That's not really balance, but it's not a buzzword, either.
Carbuncle.Killkenny
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 190
By Carbuncle.Killkenny 2014-06-15 13:07:22
Yes it is a buzzword. What it comes down to is what job can do the greatest damage in a configuration that allows it to survive the best.
Your perception of MNK's dps potential is also wrong. It is very near the top of the output tree and it lends itself better to subpar play more than any other job. Beyond marginally more hp than other DD, what survivability do they have over another job, counter? I ask because you listed it separately from hp pool. Formless strikes had use in delve 1 but it hasn't extended beyond, whereas mnk's popularity has.
How is fast tp accumulation or swinging hard utility? Unless it translates into doing more damage than other jobs its a pretty stupid point to make.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-06-15 17:25:55
Google Definitions said: u·til·i·ty
yo͞oˈtilətē/
noun
noun: utility
1.
the state of being useful, profitable, or beneficial.
"he had a poor opinion of the utility of book learning"
synonyms: usefulness, use, benefit, value, advantage, advantageousness, help, helpfulness, effectiveness, avail; More
formalefficacy
"we have increased the machine's utility"
(in game theory or economics) a measure of that which is sought to be maximized in any situation involving a choice.
2.
a public utility.
stocks and bonds in public utilities.
plural noun: utilities
3.
Computing
a utility program.
adjective
adjective: utility
1.
useful, especially through being able to perform several functions.
"a utility truck"
denoting a player capable of playing in several different positions in a sport.
2.
functional rather than attractive.
higher damage is a form of utility(and often the only one that matters)
Cerberus.Doctorugh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 317
By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-06-15 20:06:42
Do you honestly think I was asking you to justify SAM, lol
Try PUP, DNC, SMN, NIN, THF, or BST
BLU barely hangs on because it multi-attacks a lot and has Requiescat
WAR, DRG, and DRK are competitive, but not enough to warrant their use over MNK's actual utility(re: proper context for this word), or SAM's ability to meet multiple zone requirements(again: this is utility)
The fact that this all needs explaining is the problem My BLU would "***" on your "insert job here" on tree. Why? Cuz sanguine blade hits for 4k+ and requires no outside buffs to do so, oh and WHM is required to cure bomb after NM WS. In addition WOP and BT (def/mdb down) are nice bonus.
BLU has a place, most are just incompetent. I'm sorry you've never had an opportunity to see one played to its potential.
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Bismarck.Inference
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 417
By Bismarck.Inference 2014-06-15 20:11:04
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »BLU has a place, most are just incompetent. I'm sorry you've never had an opportunity to see one played to its potential.
Yeah, Kaparu. Oh wait.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 73
By Asura.Hashtag 2014-06-15 20:13:16
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »Do you honestly think I was asking you to justify SAM, lol
Try PUP, DNC, SMN, NIN, THF, or BST
BLU barely hangs on because it multi-attacks a lot and has Requiescat
WAR, DRG, and DRK are competitive, but not enough to warrant their use over MNK's actual utility(re: proper context for this word), or SAM's ability to meet multiple zone requirements(again: this is utility)
The fact that this all needs explaining is the problem My BLU would "***" on your "insert job here" on tree. Why? Cuz sanguine blade hits for 4k+ and requires no outside buffs to do so, oh and WHM is required to cure bomb after NM WS. In addition WOP and BT (def/mdb down) are nice bonus.
BLU has a place, most are just incompetent. I'm sorry you've never had an opportunity to see one played to its potential.
666 man
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-06-15 20:17:06
The problem of barance has always been solved with more varied content soooo... more content pls.
Asura.Ccl
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1998
By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-15 20:40:10
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »Do you honestly think I was asking you to justify SAM, lol
Try PUP, DNC, SMN, NIN, THF, or BST
BLU barely hangs on because it multi-attacks a lot and has Requiescat
WAR, DRG, and DRK are competitive, but not enough to warrant their use over MNK's actual utility(re: proper context for this word), or SAM's ability to meet multiple zone requirements(again: this is utility)
The fact that this all needs explaining is the problem My BLU would "***" on your "insert job here" on tree. Why? Cuz sanguine blade hits for 4k+ and requires no outside buffs to do so, oh and WHM is required to cure bomb after NM WS. In addition WOP and BT (def/mdb down) are nice bonus.
BLU has a place, most are just incompetent. I'm sorry you've never had an opportunity to see one played to its potential.
Please come to Asura I need someone to parse bet with me you can go blu and we can bet 50m :(
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-06-15 20:44:05
I want the 50m in unmarked blinkers.
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Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 95
By Sylph.Limlight 2014-06-15 21:07:38
Ask for the 50 mil in haks' You still have a day!!!!!
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-06-15 21:08:15
sorry but 4k really isn't that much, surprised you're not using CDC which should be performing far better in addition to being able to make Light for aura downing. still won't match a SAM's Shoha/Fudo though, and not having any outside buffs for a delve boss is unrealistic. Gap will shorten after the update, SAM will still likely be better though.
(ftr, my group doesn't even bring a COR but instead GEO+BRD, and my avg Shoha/Fudo on tree hovers around 5k, spikes around 7-8k. SB simply can't come close, it has a rather high Slashing weakness but no aversion to magic, especially not darkness.)
Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-06-15 21:15:00
My BLU is more than capable of getting the better of most DD I've played with. That doesn't mean I'm under the delusion that it's because of any inherent property of the job.
You've parsed against bad players- congratulations.
By Trapjaw 2014-06-15 21:20:13
I predict an emergency maintenance shortly after servers are up. Anyone remember the boost 2handers got years ago? They were insanely OP for about 24hrs before SE had to quickly fix it. I expect something similar again.
Asura.Ccl
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1998
By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-15 21:51:06
gdi you all killing my gil plan :(
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-06-15 22:09:59
I predict an emergency maintenance shortly after servers are up. Anyone remember the boost 2handers got years ago? They were insanely OP for about 24hrs before SE had to quickly fix it. I expect something similar again.
Many a fun times were had at that initial Fafnir after the patch.
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Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 764
By Fenrir.Motenten 2014-06-16 00:42:53
New versions of all spreadsheets pushed out.
Added all May patch gear.
Updated all weaponskills with known changes, and speculated unknown changes. Known changes are new WSC values and the removal of the alpha multiplier. Unknown changes are new fTP values and new crit rate values. Will still need lots of testing done after the patch, but about half the spreadsheet work is done.
Also left a folder of the pre-weaponskill modifications (pushed after adding the May gear) if people wanted to compare before-and-after values.
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Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-06-16 00:46:27
I'll be doing sword WSs the day of the patch (Gsword, Gkat, Axe if no one hits them before me), will let you know what I find for the altered ones.
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Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 585
By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2014-06-16 00:57:05
My BLU is more than capable of getting the better of most DD I've played with. That doesn't mean I'm under the delusion that it's because of any inherent property of the job.
You've parsed against bad players- congratulations.
As a sch who usually gets #2 IN OUTER skirmish, are you going to say all those mnks, sams, drk, wars, rngs suck? Sometimes melees fall flat on tbere face with four to 6k ws. When a sch or blu can so solo 15 to 20k sc's.
I wont say the melee are bad, they just muscle builders who mash buttons, but can't take their dmg to the highest lvls.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42588
I guess it makes sense, but will make no differance?
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