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Random Politics & Religion #00
Administrator
Server: Hyperion
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By Drama Torama 2015-06-30 15:17:22
Sometimes I just ask questions like that to get a feel for what people are really after. Are they after equality, in that churches should be in line with other non-profits, or are they actually just grudge-driven and want to see tax-exempt status removed regardless?
There's certainly a lot of the latter. I'm fine with the former, and the status quo doesn't even bother me, though I don't have the hate for religion that others seem to.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-30 15:18:08
Sometimes I just ask questions like that to get a feel for what people are really after. Are they after equality, in that churches should be in line with other non-profits, or are they actually just grudge-driven and want to see tax-exempt status removed regardless?
Some probably are vengeful, but that also doesn't necessarily invalidate their argument.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-06-30 15:19:43
s like that to get a feel for what people are really after. Are they after equality, in that churches should be in line with other non-profits, or are they actually just grudge-driven and want to see tax-exempt status removed regardless?
You'll really see the motivations when they only go after churches. They will only lead the charge against Christians and churches, they'll be the only ones targeted. Anti-catholcism is the new antisemitism. My guess is that they're just too scared to piss off Muslims (I wonder why).
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-30 15:23:00
Sometimes I just ask questions like that to get a feel for what people are really after. Are they after equality, in that churches should be in line with other non-profits, or are they actually just grudge-driven and want to see tax-exempt status removed regardless?
Some probably are vengeful, but that also doesn't necessarily invalidate their argument.
So, anti-equality for the sake of vengeance doesn't invalidate their argument? I see we've come full circle.
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Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-06-30 15:25:00
Complains about how 40 some percent of the nation doesn't have to pay any taxes (or gets refunded for the amount of which they paid) but then fights for Church's tax exempt status.
So why do religious institutions deserve tax exempt status?
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-30 15:25:11
Sometimes I just ask questions like that to get a feel for what people are really after. Are they after equality, in that churches should be in line with other non-profits, or are they actually just grudge-driven and want to see tax-exempt status removed regardless?
Some probably are vengeful, but that also doesn't necessarily invalidate their argument.
So, anti-equality for the sake of vengeance doesn't invalidate their argument? I see we've come full circle.
No, pushing an equality argument because you are driven by vengeance. Don't put words in my mouth, you know exactly what I was saying.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-06-30 15:26:21
Sometimes I just ask questions like that to get a feel for what people are really after. Are they after equality, in that churches should be in line with other non-profits, or are they actually just grudge-driven and want to see tax-exempt status removed regardless?
Some probably are vengeful, but that also doesn't necessarily invalidate their argument.
So, anti-equality for the sake of vengeance doesn't invalidate their argument? I see we've come full circle. /sigh
The motivation is flawed but the reasoning might be sound is the point.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-30 15:28:46
Sometimes I just ask questions like that to get a feel for what people are really after. Are they after equality, in that churches should be in line with other non-profits, or are they actually just grudge-driven and want to see tax-exempt status removed regardless?
Some probably are vengeful, but that also doesn't necessarily invalidate their argument.
So, anti-equality for the sake of vengeance doesn't invalidate their argument? I see we've come full circle. /sigh
The motivation is flawed but the reasoning might be sound is the point.
Ohhh, okay. So instead of encouraging religions to contribute to their communities by requiring a certain amount be donated (equal with other non-profits), we should force all of them to suddenly pay taxes, thereby reducing the amount that they can contribute. Very sound reasoning there. Stunning, really.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-06-30 15:29:18
Complains about how 40 some percent of the nation doesn't have to pay any taxes (or gets refunded for the amount of which they paid) but then fights for Church's tax exempt status.
So why do religious institutions deserve tax exempt status?
The government should not obstruct the free practice of religion. Either in the form of an oppressive regulation, or in the case of an oppressive tax. Homeslice, do you even first amendment?
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Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-06-30 15:34:00
Complains about how 40 some percent of the nation doesn't have to pay any taxes (or gets refunded for the amount of which they paid) but then fights for Church's tax exempt status.
So why do religious institutions deserve tax exempt status?
The government should not obstruct the free practice of religion. Either in the form of an oppressive regulation, or in the case of an oppressive tax. Homeslice, do you even first amendment? And religious institutions shouldn't try to force their morals on an entire nation cheif. Not every one in this nation is Christian. Not everyone in this nation is Muslim. Not everyone in this nation is Jewish. Not everyone in this nation is [add whatever other religion you ouwld like to here].
Just as you say the government should not obstruct free practice of religion, religion should not obstruct the way others live their lives. Take it as it's meant to be a personal journey of faith with your community and not a personal crusade to change the way other people live their lives.
 Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-06-30 15:34:12
So, are you guys switching your stance from "all churches should pay taxes" to "all churches who don't meet donation criteria should pay taxes"? I'm pretty sure most of the large churches would remain tax-exempt in that case anyway. 1. Everyone seems to have a slightly different stance
2. Churches are not the same as all random affiliated religious organizations. Such as a religious university
3. I think, in theory, taking away tax exempt status is a good idea, but in practice and looking at historical court cases, not likely to happen. It has been ruled that taxing and auditing churches adds an extra burden on those practising their first amendment right. Which I agree with up to a point.
Quote: Tax Inquiries and Examinations of Churches
Congress has imposed special limitations, found in section 7611 of the Internal Revenue Code, on how and when the IRS may conduct civil tax inquiries and examinations of churches. The IRS may begin a church tax inquiry only if an appropriate high-level Treasury official reasonably believes, on the basis of facts and circumstances recorded in writing, that an organization claiming to be a church or convention or association of churches may not qualify for exemption, may be carrying on an unrelated trade or business (within the meaning of IRC § 513), may otherwise be engaged in taxable activities or may have entered into an IRC § 4958 excess benefit transaction with a disqualified person.
4. Churches (and other non-profits) still have to comply with IRS rules and Congress in order to maintain their tax exempt status. The rules are less restrictive for churches than other non-profits.
Quote: The Restriction of Political Campaign Intervention by Section 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations
Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-06-30 15:37:10
Complains about how 40 some percent of the nation doesn't have to pay any taxes (or gets refunded for the amount of which they paid) but then fights for Church's tax exempt status.
So why do religious institutions deserve tax exempt status?
The government should not obstruct the free practice of religion. ***; they certainly should (and do) obstruct the free practice of religion.
For example, human sacrifice is illegal.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13643
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-30 15:37:26
And religious institutions shouldn't try to force their morals on an entire nation cheif.
Yeah! Only secular political groups are allowed to do that!
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By Jetackuu 2015-06-30 15:38:33
Complains about how 40 some percent of the nation doesn't have to pay any taxes (or gets refunded for the amount of which they paid) but then fights for Church's tax exempt status.
So why do religious institutions deserve tax exempt status?
The government should not obstruct the free practice of religion. Either in the form of an oppressive regulation, or in the case of an oppressive tax. Homeslice, do you even first amendment? Do you even constitution?
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-30 15:38:53
Complains about how 40 some percent of the nation doesn't have to pay any taxes (or gets refunded for the amount of which they paid) but then fights for Church's tax exempt status.
So why do religious institutions deserve tax exempt status?
The government should not obstruct the free practice of religion. ***; they certainly should (and do) obstruct the free practice of religion.
For example, human sacrifice is illegal.
He was clearly using free as it refers to monetary value. Try to keep up.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-06-30 15:41:22
Complains about how 40 some percent of the nation doesn't have to pay any taxes (or gets refunded for the amount of which they paid) but then fights for Church's tax exempt status.
So why do religious institutions deserve tax exempt status?
The government should not obstruct the free practice of religion. ***; they certainly should (and do) obstruct the free practice of religion.
For example, human sacrifice is illegal.
He was clearly using free as it refers to monetary value. Try to keep up. ...that makes his argument better?
It's not like they are setting up pay-per-pray booths.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-06-30 15:41:39
And religious institutions shouldn't try to force their morals on an entire nation cheif.
Yeah! Only secular political groups are allowed to do that! Such as?
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Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-06-30 15:42:22
And religious institutions shouldn't try to force their morals on an entire nation cheif.
Yeah! Only secular political groups are allowed to do that! Such as? All humans are equal before the law.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13643
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-30 15:44:08
And religious institutions shouldn't try to force their morals on an entire nation cheif.
Yeah! Only secular political groups are allowed to do that! Such as? 
 Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2015-06-30 15:45:15
Complains about how 40 some percent of the nation doesn't have to pay any taxes (or gets refunded for the amount of which they paid) but then fights for Church's tax exempt status.
So why do religious institutions deserve tax exempt status?
/buzzes in
For expanding their facilities with the same leisurely amenities you can find at your local rec center? Superfluous to religion but why not have these available, exclusively, for your inter-faith community? Some could call it unnecessary opulence?
I will give leeway to the churches that serve as legitimately recognized schools, though.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-06-30 15:45:15
And religious institutions shouldn't try to force their morals on an entire nation cheif.
Yeah! Only secular political groups are allowed to do that! Such as? All humans are equal before the law. Stop forcing your morals on me plz
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By Jetackuu 2015-06-30 15:46:55
Pleebs, you ready for the human sacrifice and summoning circles?
I have the freezer ready to transpo...
PM me.
Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2015-06-30 15:49:47
Complains about how 40 some percent of the nation doesn't have to pay any taxes (or gets refunded for the amount of which they paid) but then fights for Church's tax exempt status.
So why do religious institutions deserve tax exempt status?
The government should not obstruct the free practice of religion. ***; they certainly should (and do) obstruct the free practice of religion.
For example, human sacrifice is illegal.
He was clearly using free as it refers to monetary value. Try to keep up. But, historically, this has had a murkey history with the supreme court and the nation, as a whole. Before 1940 states could and did place restrictions on religions.
Free exercise clause
Only with the 14th amendment did the free exercise of religion go beyond federal level.
Cantwell v. Connecticut
Everson v. Board of Education
By fonewear 2015-06-30 15:51:14
When you get done with the taxing church argument will someone let me know which side won. I'm curious !
My guess is the white guys. They always win.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13643
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-30 15:52:23
Complains about how 40 some percent of the nation doesn't have to pay any taxes (or gets refunded for the amount of which they paid) but then fights for Church's tax exempt status.
So why do religious institutions deserve tax exempt status?
The government should not obstruct the free practice of religion. ***; they certainly should (and do) obstruct the free practice of religion.
For example, human sacrifice is illegal.
He was clearly using free as it refers to monetary value. Try to keep up. But, historically, this has had a murkey history with the supreme court and the nation, as a whole. Before 1940 states could and did place restrictions on religions.
Free exercise clause
Only with the 14th amendment did the free exercise of religion go beyond federal level.
So, because it took a while to get around to clarifying it, it means less? Well, I'll keep that in mind with recent SCOTUS decisions then.
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By fonewear 2015-06-30 15:53:12
I'd like to cite Brown v Board of education for no reason whatsoever !
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-30 15:55:11
I'd like to cite Brown v Board of education for no reason whatsoever ! 
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 Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-06-30 15:55:17
Anti-catholcism is the new antisemitism. 
By fonewear 2015-06-30 15:55:25
I would also like to cite Johnson v. M'Intosh !
Which brings me to Minor v Happersett !
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-06-30 15:56:18
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/bow
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