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Is the Tea Party Making a Comeback?
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-06-11 13:21:53
I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take that as a patronizing statement or not. The small part of myself I bury with objectivity that tends to be a bit of a paranoid schizophrenic is telling me you're being a *** who's here to "Educate" my ignorance. What should I tell him??? It was a troll bait.
Jet is large defender of Socialism (and abolishing age of content). You would due well not to fall for his ruse.
 Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-06-11 13:25:45
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »As an employee, to the market, you always get paid what you are worth. The sooner people can understand this basic truth, the better off we will all be. You don't though, people are constantly paid under what they are worth, your pure idea of a proper capitalist market in the job/employment sector is a pure myth.
The minimum wage should be a living wage, it isn't, that's the bottom line. I'm ok with increasing it only partially federally, but then local areas need to do their part as well for their areas.
As for the automation crap being spewed around: good, it will create more jobs that pay decently. You get paid what you are worth. If you are worth more, then by definition someone is willing to pay you that amount. Go there.
And ppl don't generally have an income problem, they have a budgeting problem. People aren't not always paid what they are worth. The only thing you got right is that people are paid what people are willing to pay them... whether that's more or less than what they are actually worth to that company is somethign you have no clue about lol... Name one example of someone not getting paid what they are worth, especially in the private sector. How would you like me to provide this example?
Also, your own interpretation leaves room for employees being paid less than they are worth. Say you work for company a and they pay you 40 dollars but company b is willing to pay you 50 dollars! You choose not to go to b for various reasons say distance to work or relocation or whatever. By your own definition people are willing to pay more for you but you are currently getting less that that.
In reality there are probably places that you never even know abou that might pay more for you to do the same work. Your reasoning is extremely flawed in numerous ways.
There is an actual monetary value that some companies place on their employees through evaluations of their output relative to their work.
Say you're paid $40 and the company requires you to reach a value of $80 to remain profitable and consider you a valuable member of the team. Say your out reaches $400. say your other co workers range from 60-100. Your worth to that company is great than that of the other employees but you might be stuck in a pay structure in which you get the same salary as every other person on that level with the same annual increase or no increase at all.
Some people also never ask for raises because they think it will get them fired or whatever so even though a company may be willing to pay you more or your value to them is higher you still may be getting paid at a lower rate.
There's numerous reasons people are over or underpaid... to think that we have a perfect system that corrects for innaccuracies based on performance and actual worth is ludicrous.
Private sector isn't much better than the public. They'll exploit you any way they can until you reach golden parachute levels lol...
Server: Odin
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-06-11 13:26:43
You guys are wasting your time, is it any surprise that Conservatives/Libertarians would support a labor economy that favors undercutting bids? These are the same types of people that attempted to re legalize slavery by proposing legislation that would abolish the minimum wage. (But you can quit if you aren't paid enough!!!!) You sir, are an idiot Awesome, and this proves it without a doubt.
Fix'd.
I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take that as a patronizing statement or not. The small part of myself I bury with objectivity that tends to be a bit of a paranoid schizophrenic is telling me you're being a *** who's here to "Educate" my ignorance. What should I tell him??? It was a troll bait.
Jet is large defender of Socialism (and abolishing age of content). You would due well not to fall for his ruse.
As far as Socialism V. Capitalism is concerned, I don't look at it as an One-or-the-Other question.
Socialism has good ideas on how to treat the bottom of the barrel, but it is prone to stagnation and complacency. Capitalism fuels ambition and rewards personal effort, but competition always creates cheaters, and in the Game of Thrones Economics you either win or you die(Metaphorically). But that's just my ideological breakdown of the two systems... When put into practical applications, both break down really fast into exploitative ***.
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By Jetackuu 2014-06-11 13:32:02
Flailing all over the place with inaccurate assumptions as usual.
When did I say I accepted a new job or left my old one? I'm saying I was underpaid at my last job Or did you not mean your last job, but your current job?
I meant my last job, like I said.
Quote: I never said that people don't leave when they are underpaid. Usually they can't as there's no better offer around, people endure for their families, go figure. That is a poor excuse, even for you.
What is keeping you from looking for another job if you feel your current one is not paying you enough?
Or are you going to say that your jobs always tie you down to the desk and demand you work for peanuts while your bosses reap the benefits of your stupidity?
I'm guessing you will say yes, because that explains a certain ridicule of a point I made a while back about people leaving from bad situation to a better one.
Ah, arguing stupidity I see. For a lot of people the availability of jobs in their field, or in general is rather scarce. Not everyone lives in metro areas.
Quote: You guys are wasting your time, is it any surprise that Conservatives/Libertarians would support a labor economy that favors undercutting bids? These are the same types of people that attempted to re legalize slavery by proposing legislation that would abolish the minimum wage. (But you can quit if you aren't paid enough!!!!) You sir, are an idiot, and this proves it without a doubt.
You are delusional if you don't think cars and phones are a necessity in today's world, not everyone has the luxury of being able to pick up and move whenever they please. In cities, cars aren't a necessity. In rural areas, it is, but in major cities with public transportation, cars are not.
And what is keeping you from using a landline again? Or right, you want the latest gadget and would go into debt for it...
It is called "living within your means" and it is something you obviously lack (also called common sense, but you are going to argue about that point anyway, so why bother).
I believe I already previously inferred that I wasn't talking about in large cities, if not I apologize.
Landlines aren't free, and by no means am I a proponent of one spending above their means, or needing the "latest and greatest" device, but nice inaccurate and falsely accredited ad hominem.
Quote: The bulk of your fail is that you don't realize that people are living in shitty conditions while corporations make ridiculous profits on the backs of the poor, while trying to eliminate the middle class as well. You sir, are an idiot, and this proves it without a doubt. But I think we all knew that already.
I am most certainly very far from being an idiot, but it's common knowledge that some of the richest corporations have many employees that are living below the poverty line and are receiving government aid. For *** sakes walmart holds food drives for it's own employees...
But go on and continue thinking that the corporations that profit off a society shouldn't properly put back int he society.
By Jetackuu 2014-06-11 13:33:28
I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take that as a patronizing statement or not. The small part of myself I bury with objectivity that tends to be a bit of a paranoid schizophrenic is telling me you're being a *** who's here to "Educate" my ignorance. What should I tell him??? It was a troll bait.
Jet is large defender of Socialism (and abolishing age of content). You would due well not to fall for his ruse. I'm actually very against socialism, and if you didn't have such a brainwashed "us vs them" mentality you would understand that.
I also don't troll, unlike several posters here.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-06-11 13:34:42
Pay isn't always a factor when people decide to move to new jobs.. could be that it's something they really want to do. Could be that they take a pay cut to get a job with better opportunities... maybe they don't want to deal with the people they work with anymore... the possibilities are out there... money isn't the sole motivating factor for picking a career path... True, but if you are being underpaid, and another job comes up that you can do with better pay, are you going to take it or are you going to pass on it? And how did this job come to your attention in the first place? You obviously had to be looking, because nobody is going to stop and give you a job just because...
Some people do leave because they can get more money elsewhere... it doesn't necassarily mean they were underpaid, just that someone is willing to pay them more to do smoething else... they might even be doing different work... The point that was made is that if you think you are being underpaid, then get a new job and leave your old one. By not doing so, you just proven that you are not underpaid. Like I said... it depends... People place value on different things. Is a $5,000 raise worth double the commute? Is a $10,000 raise worth relocating out of state? Would you move to Alaska for an extra $50k a year?
Job offers do come up even when you're not looking. One of the guys I used to work with got an offer while he was out working a deal for us lol... You don't always have to be looking to get an offer.
According to Tenshi... everyone thinks they are being underpaid (untrue) that means that everyone should quite their job and get one that is just waiting for them that pays more? Sometimes in order to get that job you have to move or something else that you don't want to do. Bills that need to be paid so people keep their jobs while looking for another...
By not quitting your job the moment you think you are underpaid only proves that you are smart not that you are paid what you are worth lol...
There are so many factors that are taken into consideration when looking for a job/new job that are personal too. Whether or not you are over paid, paid exactly right or underpaid doesn't always play as big a decision as you'd think.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-06-11 13:34:57
Just like somebody claims that people who label a person a neocon on the forum doesn't know what a neocon is. The same is true for people labeling others as socialists.
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By Jetackuu 2014-06-11 13:42:39
Just like somebody claims that people who label a person a neocon on the forum doesn't know what a neocon is. The same is true for people labeling others as socialists. I think of it as more of a descriptive word than anything, not to mention that I'll be the first to admit I use a more recent use of the term than historic.
But there isn't a definition that exists anywhere of socialism (short of maybe at Fox) that fits me, or most of the people here.
Socialism and Capitalism have the same inherit flaw: human greed, they both sound great on paper but neither works well when implemented without severe changes. Not to mention that socialism has too many restrictions and just too many people get unhappy under it.
I use the term Neocon for those that think Reagonomics works, that think Obama's birth certificate was probably faked, for those that think Benghazi or Solyndra, the IRS "scandal" were real scandals. The list goes on and is not entirely inclusive.
There are some conservatives on this site that I don't consider neocons, but aside from the one creating a lot of threads, they don't as much.
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Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-06-11 13:49:11
Looks like the disgraced Cantor is stepping down, GOP in turmoil, expect the same production from the House as last year: None.
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Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-06-11 13:51:07
Just like somebody claims that people who label a person a neocon on the forum doesn't know what a neocon is. The same is true for people labeling others as socialists. I think of it as more of a descriptive word than anything, not to mention that I'll be the first to admit I use a more recent use of the term than historic.
But there isn't a definition that exists anywhere of socialism (short of maybe at Fox) that fits me, or most of the people here.
Socialism and Capitalism have the same inherit flaw: human greed, they both sound great on paper but neither works well when implemented without severe changes. Not to mention that socialism has too many restrictions and just too many people get unhappy under it.
I use the term Neocon for those that think Reagonomics works, that think Obama's birth certificate was probably faked, for those that think Benghazi or Solyndra, the IRS "scandal" were real scandals. The list goes on and is not entirely inclusive.
There are some conservatives on this site that I don't consider neocons, but aside from the one creating a lot of threads, they don't as much.
You could just say : Bastardized Corruptions of Goldwater Republicans.
By Jetackuu 2014-06-11 13:52:28
Just like somebody claims that people who label a person a neocon on the forum doesn't know what a neocon is. The same is true for people labeling others as socialists. I think of it as more of a descriptive word than anything, not to mention that I'll be the first to admit I use a more recent use of the term than historic.
But there isn't a definition that exists anywhere of socialism (short of maybe at Fox) that fits me, or most of the people here.
Socialism and Capitalism have the same inherit flaw: human greed, they both sound great on paper but neither works well when implemented without severe changes. Not to mention that socialism has too many restrictions and just too many people get unhappy under it.
I use the term Neocon for those that think Reagonomics works, that think Obama's birth certificate was probably faked, for those that think Benghazi or Solyndra, the IRS "scandal" were real scandals. The list goes on and is not entirely inclusive.
There are some conservatives on this site that I don't consider neocons, but aside from the one creating a lot of threads, they don't as much.
You could just say : Bastardized Corruptions of Goldwater Republicans.
Takes too long to type each time, I'm lazy at times.
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
Server: Gilgamesh
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By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2014-06-11 14:42:06
Words only have meaning when you give them meaning. This would be profound if it weren't utterly devoid of meaning.
You are delusional if you don't think cars and phones are a necessity in today's world, not everyone has the luxury of being able to pick up and move whenever they please. Lots of people survive without cars and phones. Funny you think "luxury" is moving to a place where you can earn a living, but owning a car and a phone are necessities.
I see no further discussion will suffice as you are so far out of touch it isn't funny. You're mad because you can't cope with the reality I help communicate to you, and you call us delusional, because... well, you project as a coping mechanism.
The bulk of your fail is that you don't realize that people are living in shitty conditions while corporations make ridiculous profits on the backs of the poor, while trying to eliminate the middle class as well. Most people live pretty well, especially relative to the rest of the world. You are just mad because you don't make money and probably in part because you don't spend your time or money wisely.
You keep supporting a system that will only have a negative impact on you, so go for it. Actually I do quite well, thanks.
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Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
Server: Gilgamesh
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By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2014-06-11 14:43:14
Just like somebody claims that people who label a person a neocon on the forum doesn't know what a neocon is. The same is true for people labeling others as socialists. I know what a socialist is. The problem is you don't know what one is, so when our definitions clash, you think you are correct.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-06-11 14:46:07
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Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
Server: Gilgamesh
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Posts: 971
By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2014-06-11 14:46:34
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It's tough to take a stance on that subject for two reasons:
1) America is a nation of Immigrants. Why is our generation special that we decide others can't enter now?
What part should I address? The part where you lump ILLEGAL immigration in with LEGAL immigration, or the part where you ignore that we have had restrictions on immigration since 1875?
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
Server: Gilgamesh
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Posts: 971
By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2014-06-11 14:47:32
Just speaking from experience. Most people say 0bama isn't a socialist because he didn't succeed in fully implementing socialism. I guess nobody is racist since we still have multiple races.
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Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-06-11 14:55:54
ooo! You obviously don't know what a Goldwater Republican is and how it relates to the Tea Party and even NeoCons.
What you're problem is, is that you can't grasp the concept of the definition of a word evolving and that the people who identified with the term are all now Republican advisers.
Or do you want to pretend that Neoconservative is still a term for liberals like Kennedy? Or did you forget they proclaimed Liberalism failed during the 70's and jump party lines?
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Server: Odin
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Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-06-11 14:58:16
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »]
It's tough to take a stance on that subject for two reasons:
1) America is a nation of Immigrants. Why is our generation special that we decide others can't enter now?
What part should I address? The part where you lump ILLEGAL immigration in with LEGAL immigration, or the part where you ignore that we have had restrictions on immigration since 1875?
You should address that toxic attitude before anything else. I made it clear that this was the most broad stroke possible.
I notice how you also didn't point out any flaws in the stance you agree with. Which shows just how little credibility you have as a debater. That's why I'll never respect your opinion. I can poke holes in my own thoughts, rationalize and adjust them accordingly (Perhaps even change them), you show no intellectual flexibility at all.
But whatever, you're a Zazzyblazzmatazz Doctor aren't you??
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Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-06-11 15:04:28
We've also loosened those restrictions since 1875. ***gets repealed, country's views evolve and the idiots cling to archaic notions.
By Jetackuu 2014-06-11 15:11:04
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »Just speaking from experience. Most people say 0bama isn't a socialist because he didn't succeed in fully implementing socialism. I guess nobody is racist since we still have multiple races. Obama isn't a socialist because he isn't a socialist, nothing more.
As for the rest of your crap: /yawn
The "reality" you communicate doesn't exist anywhere but in the neocon dreamland, don't worry, your TE's will eventually run out.
By wormfeeder 2014-06-11 15:12:19
the problem you don't grasp is that the neocons are trying to hijack the tea party. the tea party is a direct threat to neocon and in a good way. I don't know how old you are but in the 80's the neocons hijacked religion to make the libs look like the didn't believe in God or were against them. the tea party is actually a good thing. don't listen to the neocons or media about the tea party.
By Jetackuu 2014-06-11 15:15:12
At no point is a group of people who don't understand that the times have changed a "good thing" libertarians are at the core of the "tea party" movement, and they're just about all damn near certifiable.
edit: of course I'm talking almost solely about the concept of isolationism.
By wormfeeder 2014-06-11 15:18:21
also on the immigration front. I believe if a person has a skill we need here in this country they should be allowed in our country and granted a visa and start the process of gaining citizenship. I believe if you commit a felony by entering this illegally you should be arrested deported and not allowed to enter this country for a certain period of time. Cuba in the 80's emptied their prisons and mental hospitals on the united states. giving us a lot of very undesirable criminals. legal immigration yes. crossing the border illegally no way in hell.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-06-11 15:19:51
At no point is a group of people who don't understand that the times have changed a "good thing" libertarians are at the core of the "tea party" movement, and they're just about all damn near certifiable.
edit: of course I'm talking almost solely about the concept of isolationism. Libertarians aren't isolationists. Isolationism has been dead since the 40's. There is no going back.
By Jetackuu 2014-06-11 15:20:30
At no point is a group of people who don't understand that the times have changed a "good thing" libertarians are at the core of the "tea party" movement, and they're just about all damn near certifiable.
edit: of course I'm talking almost solely about the concept of isolationism. Libertarians aren't isolationists. Isolationism has been dead since the 40's. There is no going back. You need to talk to some people I know then.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-06-11 15:21:26
At no point is a group of people who don't understand that the times have changed a "good thing" libertarians are at the core of the "tea party" movement, and they're just about all damn near certifiable.
edit: of course I'm talking almost solely about the concept of isolationism. Libertarians aren't isolationists. Isolationism has been dead since the 40's. There is no going back. You need to talk to some people I know then. Sounds like a trap, lol.
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By wormfeeder 2014-06-11 15:23:32
isolation can mean a lot of things. our constitution allows for free trade between other countries. it also says we are not to involve ourselves in other countries affairs. libertarians are all about a constitutional government. not the type of government we have now that uses the constitution as toilet paper on a daily basis. if you actually read the constitution you will find that a large majority of our so called leaders commit treason on a daily basis.
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By Jetackuu 2014-06-11 15:24:10
At no point is a group of people who don't understand that the times have changed a "good thing" libertarians are at the core of the "tea party" movement, and they're just about all damn near certifiable.
edit: of course I'm talking almost solely about the concept of isolationism. Libertarians aren't isolationists. Isolationism has been dead since the 40's. There is no going back. You need to talk to some people I know then. Sounds like a trap, lol. trust me. ^.O
By Jetackuu 2014-06-11 15:24:51
isolation can mean a lot of things. our constitution allows for free trade between other countries. it also says we are not to involve ourselves in other countries affairs. libertarians are all about a constitutional government. not the type of government we have now that uses the constitution as toilet paper on a daily basis. if you actually read the constitution you will find that a large majority of our so called leaders commit treason on a daily basis.
I've read the constitution, and while some of our "leaders" are treasonous ***, it's not due to protecting our interests abroad.
By wormfeeder 2014-06-11 15:31:47
isolation can mean a lot of things. our constitution allows for free trade between other countries. it also says we are not to involve ourselves in other countries affairs. libertarians are all about a constitutional government. not the type of government we have now that uses the constitution as toilet paper on a daily basis. if you actually read the constitution you will find that a large majority of our so called leaders commit treason on a daily basis.
I've read the constitution, and while some of our "leaders" are treasonous ***, it's not due to protecting our interests abroad. it isn't our interests they are protecting. they are protecting their corporate masters interests at the cost of the tax paying American.
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Interesting story today from Virginia:
Quote: House Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia lost to a Tea Party challenger on Tuesday in a stunning Republican primary upset that sent shockwaves through Congress and gave the conservative Tea Party movement the biggest victory in its four-year history.
Cantor, the No. 2 Republican in the House of Representatives, was easily beaten by college economics professor David Brat, CNN projected. With nearly 90 percent of votes counted, Brat had 56 percent to Cantor's 44 percent.
Brat, a political newcomer who teaches at Randolph-Macon College, had argued Cantor was not conservative enough and accused the seven-term incumbent of betraying conservative values on spending, the national debt and immigration.
Cantor had been seen by many as an eventual successor to House Speaker John Boehner, and his loss is certain to unsettle members of both parties already nervous about the depth of anger toward Congress among voters.
Cantor had spent more than $5 million to head off the challenge from Brat, who spent about $122,000, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
What's interesting is not only did the Tea Party candidate win, but also spent far less. $122,000 vs $5 million on his campaign.
However, the Tea Party still has a long way to go:
Quote: The victory followed a string of primary losses by Tea Party candidates this year to candidates backed by the Republican establishment.
The race was the highlight of voting in five states on Tuesday. South Carolina, Maine, Nevada and North Dakota were also selecting candidates for the Nov. 4 midterm elections.
U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina also faced a Tea Party challenge on Tuesday. Graham was expected to beat a crowded field of six challengers who had accused him of not being conservative enough.
Are they on the way to making a comeback this November?
Fox News seems to be somewhat optimistic.
Quote: The Tea Party movement would like to make clear that reports of its death have been greatly exaggerated.
Victories this week by Tea Party-backed candidates in Nebraska and West Virginia Republican primaries are helping to reinvigorate the movement, which some had written off amid a difficult campaign season. But as its own members point out, whether the movement is winning primaries or not, it's hard to argue its small-government message has faded.
Famous, or infamous, Tea Party-aligned lawmakers in Congress continue to play a strong role in the direction of the party. Polls of conservatives consistently show figures like Sens. Rand Paul, R-Ky., and Ted Cruz, R-Texas, as political favorites in a hypothetical 2016 race. And it is those figures who keep the Republican Party something of an evolving force -- Paul arguably made drones a bipartisan issue, and also filed a lawsuit this year against the administration over NSA surveillance, pushing the GOP to rethink the balance between security and privacy.
"Political pundits love to role-play as coroners, but they aren't very good at it," Tea Party Express Executive Director Taylor Budowich said after wins Tuesday night in Nebraska and West Virginia. "The mainstream media has been pushing the recycled 'Tea Party is Dead' headlines, but tonight's results show how again they've got it wrong. What these pundits don't understand is ... the broad appeal of the Tea Party's message of fiscal responsibility and economic growth."
In Nebraska, the primary victory by Republican Senate candidate Ben Sasse should help his party in November retain the open seat -- he is immediately considered the favorite for the seat held by retiring GOP Sen. Mike Johanns.
In West Virginia, former Maryland GOP chairman Alex Mooney won the Republican primary with spending help from such outside groups as the Madison Fund, the Senate Conservatives Fund and Tea Party Express.
The Tea Party is optimistic about winning both general election races -- with Mooney's 2nd Congressional District being a Republican stronghold and Sasse, a former Bush administration official, rebuffing the kind of fringe-candidate label that dogged some unsuccessful Tea Party candidates in 2012.
In addition, Tea Party leaders are touting the narrow victory Tuesday by Nebraska GOP Rep. Lee Terry for a House seat he is expected to keep and Florida businessman Curt Clawson's victory last month in a special election for the House seat left by Republican Trey Radel.
Still, it is becoming clear this year that the Tea Party will struggle to repeat its past record of ousting high-profile Republican incumbents in the primaries.
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