|
Is it Time to Remove Under God From the Pledge?
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-04-22 15:20:50
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-04-22 15:22:56
artwork for the Johnny Sparthos show, episode 1.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-22 15:23:22
that picture is terrifying...
Cerberus.Anjisnu
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-04-22 15:50:49
I always just said "watermelon" over and over during the pledge even at age 6 i knew religion was *** lol
By Ophannus 2014-04-22 15:56:30
Why couldn't it be "Under Truth" or "Under Fidelity" or some other abstract benevolent or unifying concept. Something like One Nation, Under Truth/Justice. Before anyone says lol @ america being a nation of truth/justice, I ask you, is it any less absurd than being a nation under god?
Under science would be cool.
By Lye 2014-04-22 15:57:54
Or perhaps "under Canada?"
IB4 Aussie maps!
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-22 15:59:38
I always just said "watermelon" over and over during the pledge even at age 6 i knew religion was *** lol There you have it... age 6 and impervious to the indoctrination of the pledge of allegiance... case closed.
[+]
Cerberus.Anjisnu
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-04-22 16:06:32
lol i think i was just naturally a *** very cynical as a child
Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-04-22 16:06:50
He must be one of those "Divergent" I saw in a movie.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-22 17:34:09
I think the U.S. needs a state sponsored religion called Americanity. It's divine creator shall be called Phobos.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-04-22 17:40:38
Bahamut.Refreshtwo said: »Yes and it never of been there in the first place
Under god was added for christian patriotism and never been a part of the pledge.
Going take 10 more years to get it removed at this rate but the older people will die out rational thinking will continue to improve in United States. You know it's hilarious when I see atheists call Christianity stupid, but they go out of their way to rename things like Easter Bunny (Now Spring Bunny) and they still celebrate Christmas.
If you're not a Christian, stfu, don't meddle in someone else's religion and make it a news story. Seriously -who- the -***- cares? You aren't a Christian, you have no business celebrating Easter yet you think it's ok to change the name of the Easter Bunny despite being against Christianity and the notion of what Easter represents. You're against Christianity, yet I see so many people (so many -atheists- in my area) are celebrating Christmas. IDC if it's 'holiday' season or not, when I am at work and it's the day of Christmas Eve, I am going to say "Merry Christmas" why? Because the day itself is Christmas, not 'holiday'
Don't go "rational thinking" when atheists are just as hypocritical as Christians when the atheists want to rename a christian holiday just so they can celebrate it.
You do know the origins of those holidays and symbols? You know, that Chrstianity took over and renamed?
Sylph.Shipp
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 440
By Sylph.Shipp 2014-04-22 17:41:01
I think there's already been some court cases about the issue and they found it was no problem due to the ambiguous nature of the use of the word "god" as it doesn't necessarily mean just one. I still find that to be a short sided response in order to prevent mass riots, but hey. The problem here is that it isn't ambiguous. It refers specifically to the Christian god as it is capitalized. It's using it as a proper noun, which is a definite Christian practice. Which other "God" would our nation be under? It certainly wasn't Zeus being worshipped by the majority at the time it was added to the pledge.
By macsdf1 2014-04-22 17:41:52
[+]
Sylph.Shipp
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 440
By Sylph.Shipp 2014-04-22 17:46:28
Bahamut.Refreshtwo said: »Yes and it never of been there in the first place
Under god was added for christian patriotism and never been a part of the pledge.
Going take 10 more years to get it removed at this rate but the older people will die out rational thinking will continue to improve in United States. You know it's hilarious when I see atheists call Christianity stupid, but they go out of their way to rename things like Easter Bunny (Now Spring Bunny) and they still celebrate Christmas.
If you're not a Christian, stfu, don't meddle in someone else's religion and make it a news story. Seriously -who- the -***- cares? You aren't a Christian, you have no business celebrating Easter yet you think it's ok to change the name of the Easter Bunny despite being against Christianity and the notion of what Easter represents. You're against Christianity, yet I see so many people (so many -atheists- in my area) are celebrating Christmas. IDC if it's 'holiday' season or not, when I am at work and it's the day of Christmas Eve, I am going to say "Merry Christmas" why? Because the day itself is Christmas, not 'holiday'
Don't go "rational thinking" when atheists are just as hypocritical as Christians when the atheists want to rename a christian holiday just so they can celebrate it.
You do know the origins of those holidays and symbols? You know, that Chrstianity took over and renamed? LAWL.
Seriously. Paganism called and it wants its old holidays back. Amazing to me how many Christians are ignorant to the fact that Jesus was not born in December and Easter changes every single year. Nevermind the fact that the holidays were renamed holidays to appeal to converters from paganism.
[+]
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-04-22 17:52:51
Intelligence isn't exactly the calling card of the faithful.
Blind adherence to dogma on the other hand...
[+]
Ragnarok.Zeig
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1726
By Ragnarok.Zeig 2014-04-22 17:59:49
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The one true God. My scimitar and suicide vest says so. ِAllah is not specific to Muslims, it's simply the word "God" in Arabic. Arab Christians and Jews (even pagans 14 centuries ago) use it, and have it written in the Arabic versions of the Torah/Gospels.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-04-22 18:07:54
Christianity/Islam/Judaism all worship the same God though it'd be blasphemous to say such a thing to true believers. Such is the conditioning that the same God could become the source of centuries worth of conflict.
Allah is used to denote the Islamic God in comparison to Yahweh/God (Jews) and God/Jesus Christ (Christianity) respectively. How the name is used is essentially left up to the believer.
[+]
Ragnarok.Zeig
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1726
By Ragnarok.Zeig 2014-04-22 18:10:47
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Christianity/Islam/Judaism all worship the same God though it'd be blasphemous to say such a thing to true believers. Such is the conditioning that the same God could become the source of centuries worth of conflict.
Allah is used to denote the Islamic God in comparison to Yahweh/God (Jews) and God/Jesus Christ (Christianity) respectively. How the name is used is essentially left up to the believer. The devil is in the details.
EDIT: but not really. I think Muslims would be the least likely to be offended because, as you know, they believe in the divine origin of Christianity and Judaism (i.e. that they were from God in their original, unaltered form). Christians believe that Islam is from satan, and Jews reject both Jesus and Mohammed.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-04-22 18:18:54
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The one true God. My scimitar and suicide vest says so. ِAllah is not specific to Muslims, it's simply the word "God" in Arabic. Arab Christians and Jews (even pagans 14 centuries ago) use it, and have it written in the Arabic versions of the Torah/Gospels.
Well, then no-one should object to saying "Under allah" instead of "Under God"?
Because that wouldn't create a crapfest faster than a herd of elephants on ex-lax.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-22 18:19:26
I think there's already been some court cases about the issue and they found it was no problem due to the ambiguous nature of the use of the word "god" as it doesn't necessarily mean just one. I still find that to be a short sided response in order to prevent mass riots, but hey. The problem here is that it isn't ambiguous. It refers specifically to the Christian god as it is capitalized. It's using it as a proper noun, which is a definite Christian practice. Which other "God" would our nation be under? It certainly wasn't Zeus being worshipped by the majority at the time it was added to the pledge. While I agree, I don't believe the results of the cases decided as such, I'll try to look them up later.
Personally I think it needs to be removed and doesn't belong on our money.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-04-22 18:20:26
For the record, Christmas is a stolen holiday the Christians used to convert Pegans. The week of Solstice has been the domain of many holidays before the Christian hijacking. From Egyptian mythology to Roman mythology. (I think Saturn's day was actually the 25th exactly) All predating the supposed birth of the Christ.
Easter on the other hand, as far as I know is truly a Christian exclusive holiday, but I could be wrong there.
Ragnarok.Zeig
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1726
By Ragnarok.Zeig 2014-04-22 18:22:56
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The one true God. My scimitar and suicide vest says so. ِAllah is not specific to Muslims, it's simply the word "God" in Arabic. Arab Christians and Jews (even pagans 14 centuries ago) use it, and have it written in the Arabic versions of the Torah/Gospels.
Well, then no-one should object to saying "Under allah" instead of "Under God"?
Because that wouldn't create a crapfest faster than a herd of elephants on ex-lax. America isn't an Arab country.
By Lye 2014-04-22 18:30:26
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The one true God. My scimitar and suicide vest says so. ِAllah is not specific to Muslims, it's simply the word "God" in Arabic. Arab Christians and Jews (even pagans 14 centuries ago) use it, and have it written in the Arabic versions of the Torah/Gospels.
Well, then no-one should object to saying "Under allah" instead of "Under God"?
Because that wouldn't create a crapfest faster than a herd of elephants on ex-lax. America isn't an Arab country.
Sylph.Shipp
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 440
By Sylph.Shipp 2014-04-22 19:40:04
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The one true God. My scimitar and suicide vest says so. ِAllah is not specific to Muslims, it's simply the word "God" in Arabic. Arab Christians and Jews (even pagans 14 centuries ago) use it, and have it written in the Arabic versions of the Torah/Gospels.
Well, then no-one should object to saying "Under allah" instead of "Under God"?
Because that wouldn't create a crapfest faster than a herd of elephants on ex-lax. America isn't an Arab country.
Nor is America a religious country, period. So there is no reason for religious language in anything to do with patriotism or the government.
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-04-22 19:55:34
Easter on the other hand, as far as I know is truly a Christian exclusive holiday, but I could be wrong there. Fertility holiday. Pagan. Bunnies used to be considered hermaphrodites, and therefore represented fruitful reproduction, hence the Easter Bunny.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-04-22 21:13:30
Easter on the other hand, as far as I know is truly a Christian exclusive holiday, but I could be wrong there. Fertility holiday. Pagan. Bunnies used to be considered hermaphrodites, and therefore represented fruitful reproduction, hence the Easter Bunny.
The Wicker Man (1973) will always be my favorite "horror" movie. Just seeing the disgust as Sergeant Howie goes about the island observing the "pagan" rituals instead of the Christian rites that usurped them is worth the movie itself, even if, instead of the course the story takes, it ended in an entirely innocent fashion.
By Ophannus 2014-04-22 21:44:40
America was never a religious country nor were the founding fathers very religious, in fact most of them hated religion and saw the flaws and corruption in it. America is more of a theocracy now than it ever was. You know how we call Pakistan and Iran "Extremist Muslim Countries"? Most of Europe regards us and how we handle Gays, Drugs, Censorship, as an extremist christian country. America is extremely conservative compared to the rest of the civilized world.
Shiva.Tedril
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 509
By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-22 21:52:24
America was never a religious country nor were the founding fathers very religious, in fact most of them hated religion and saw the flaws and corruption in it. America is more of a theocracy now than it ever was. You know how we call Pakistan and Iran "Extremist Muslim Countries"? Most of Europe regards us and how we handle Gays, Drugs, Censorship, as an extremist christian country. America is extremely conservative compared to the rest of the civilized world. And clearly Europe's got their ***together for sure.
By Ophannus 2014-04-22 21:58:16
I would submit that they did, socially. I think you're insinuating their financial crisis, which is pretty unrelated to their social affairs.(And let's be honest, their fiscal crises can most likely be traced back to USA's handiwork somehow).
[+]
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-04-22 22:44:12
America was never a religious country nor were the founding fathers very religious, in fact most of them hated religion and saw the flaws and corruption in it. America is more of a theocracy now than it ever was. You know how we call Pakistan and Iran "Extremist Muslim Countries"? Most of Europe regards us and how we handle Gays, Drugs, Censorship, as an extremist christian country. America is extremely conservative compared to the rest of the civilized world. And clearly Europe's got their ***together for sure. Because America does have its ***together? Glass houses, man.
A new fight started in NJ last month.
Quote: A national humanist group is suing a New Jersey school district on behalf of a family that believes the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is discriminatory toward atheist children.
The lawsuit against the Matawan-Aberdeen Regional School District was filed in state court last month and announced Monday by the American Humanist Association, a Washington, D.C.-based advocacy organization.
The group says the phrase, added in 1954, "marginalizes atheist and humanist kids as something less than ideal patriots." The anonymous plaintiffs say those two words violate the state constitution's right to equal protection. Source
A cut and dry argument from the school:
Quote: David B. Rubin, a lawyer for the Matawan-Aberdeen district, said the district is following state law that requires the pledge to be said daily. The federal courts have upheld the constitutionality of the pledge in schools, he added, as long as students who object are not required to participate.
“We are disappointed that this national organization has targeted Matawan-Aberdeen for merely obeying the law as it stands,” Rubin said in a written statement. Source
This issue have also been raised many times before, but a similar case involving discrimination has only been presented recently. The first time was in 2013 in Boston.
Quote: Every attempt to eliminate the mention of God has thus far failed, but the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts will hear arguments on Wednesday seeking removal of the two words for a new reason: discrimination.
"This is the first challenge of its kind" said Roy Speckhardt, the executive director of the American Humanist Association, an atheist group arguing for the plaintiffs. "We feel very confident that we have a strong case."
That case, which was brought by an unidentified family of a student at a school in suburban Boston, will be argued on the premise that the pledge violates the Equal Rights Amendment of the Massachusetts Constitution. It is the first such case to be tried on the state level: All previous attempts have been argued in federal court on the grounds that 'under God' was an unconstitutional violation of the separation of church and state. Source
So is it about time we change the Pledge of Allegiance? Are lawsuits the way to go about it? Who exactly do you sue if the school is only following the rules?
|
|