7 Dead Babies Found

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7 dead babies found
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 Fenrir.Atheryn
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By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-04-14 15:44:18
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
And I answered your question. Not my fault you can't accept it because you can't argue against it and it goes against your agenda...err...conspiracy.

I must have missed it. Did you answer yes or no? All I saw was your attempt to paint it in pretty words, trying to make it sound as nice as possible.

I'll answer your question as soon as you just tell me yes or no. Should government aid go to babies who are in need of food/shelter/etc.
You are being purposefully obtuse.

I have answered the question twice, both answers worded the exact same way, and even presented you with a counter-question.

I would suggest you to learn some reading comprehension before you demand answers to questions after they have been answered....twice!

Ahh, but Ihina already had an answer for the question, and your answer was different, therefore you didn't answer the question.
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 15:49:20
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
You are being purposefully obtuse.

I have answered the question twice, both answers worded the exact same way, and even presented you with a counter-question.

I would suggest you to learn some reading comprehension before you demand answers to questions after they have been answered....twice!

There's a difference between answering a question and justifying it.

You've justifying it twice. You've answered it zero times.

At best, you've only implicitly answered it. I'm looking for an explicit answer. Answer it with a yes or a no. I will immediately answer your question once you've answered mine.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-04-14 15:49:48
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Fenrir.Atheryn said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
And I answered your question. Not my fault you can't accept it because you can't argue against it and it goes against your agenda...err...conspiracy.

I must have missed it. Did you answer yes or no? All I saw was your attempt to paint it in pretty words, trying to make it sound as nice as possible.

I'll answer your question as soon as you just tell me yes or no. Should government aid go to babies who are in need of food/shelter/etc.
You are being purposefully obtuse.

I have answered the question twice, both answers worded the exact same way, and even presented you with a counter-question.

I would suggest you to learn some reading comprehension before you demand answers to questions after they have been answered....twice!

Ahh, but Ihina already had an answer for the question, and your answer was different, therefore you didn't answer the question.
Not sure if serious or not.

Ihina wants a definite, black or white, "yes" or "no" answer and I can't give it to him.

Nobody can. There is a reason, and I stated the reason.

I have answered the question, my answer is stated....
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-14 15:51:55
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
You are being purposefully obtuse.

I have answered the question twice, both answers worded the exact same way, and even presented you with a counter-question.

I would suggest you to learn some reading comprehension before you demand answers to questions after they have been answered....twice!

There's a difference between answering a question and justifying it.

You've justifying it twice. You've answered it zero times.

At best, you've only implicitly answered it. I'm looking for an explicit answer. Answer it with a yes or a no. I will immediately answer your question once you've answered mine.
Why not, as a show of good faith, and to keep your word, answer his questions now instead of placing conditions on your reply.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-04-14 15:51:59
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
You are being purposefully obtuse.

I have answered the question twice, both answers worded the exact same way, and even presented you with a counter-question.

I would suggest you to learn some reading comprehension before you demand answers to questions after they have been answered....twice!

There's a difference between answering a question and justifying it.

You've justifying it twice. You've answered it zero times.

At best, you've only implicitly answered it. I'm looking for an explicit answer. Answer it with a yes or a no. I will immediately answer your question once you've answered mine.
Not every question has a "yes" or "no" answer. I thought you would have figured that out by now....
 Fenrir.Atheryn
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By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-04-14 15:55:02
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Not sure if serious or not.

Ihina wants a definite, black or white, "yes" or "no" answer and I can't give it to him.

Nobody can. There is a reason, and I stated the reason.

I have answered the question, my answer is stated....

I know that. My point is that there is no answer you could give that would satisfy Ihina.
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 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 15:55:34
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
I know exactly what you're doing but it doesn't have the outcome that you want it to.

Well you can. Viewpoints are viewpoints and those expressed on these forums are not being pushed on anyone except for my brain which does turn to mush after reading some of them.

People should and do fight to put the policies in place that they think are either best for themselves, their group or the nation as a whole. Our politicians job should be wading through the *** and adopting the best policies from every side for the benefit of the nation as a whole. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it isn't the best path. Just because you put a spin on it that makes it seem like something that itreally isn't doesn't make your viewpoint better.

I'm not being a dumbass. It's what you're doing. It's just about as stomach turning as Nausi working his protect traditional marriage in on the backs of pedophiles.


Edit: In any case you're nto working towards any kind of solution all you're doing is trying to shamelessly promote your own agenda (whether it's right or not) and shame others. You're a part of the problem.


and lol you didn't answer my question.

Yeah, I'm trying to get people to tell me the consequences of their ideology but they refuse to tell me.

I claim that their answer is no. If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong and that the answer is yes, and that you do want government money to go to babies who need it.

It's not anymore complicated than that.


And I don't even know what your question means. I will answer your question if you be a bit more specific. How am I pushing my agenda onto 7 dead babies? How doe that question even make sense? I can only assume that you're trying to be cute, but I'm just not following.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-14 15:58:02
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Sure it was.

Pretty sure Rav won't answer it if he was here. He straight up tells you he won't answer difficult questions rather than dodge them like fone is doing.

Well, I guess I was right about your weird obsession with me. Regardless, I might answer your question once everyone else is done curb-stomping you. I don't want to ruin the fun.
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 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 16:03:56
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Nobody can. There is a reason, and I stated the reason.

Pretty sure I did.

Is that really your final answer? If I can not squeeze an actual answer out of you, then I won't push you anymore. Just know that you refuse to answer a simple yes or no answer.

Quote:
Answer this question then: Why should a baby have to depend on an entity when their parents should provide for them?

And here, I'll answer your question because I'm not someone who runs from their ideology.

It's because some parents can't provide for that baby.

Most likely, you're going to say something like "Well then, the parents shouldn't have had the baby". Yeah well, they already did. Sad day for everyone, but the baby's already here and needs food and shelter. It's nice that various organizations can care for some of those babies, but they don't have the resources or the reach to care for all of them. That's where government needs to step in and lend aid.

Is that satisfactory to you?
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 16:04:37
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Well, I guess I was right about your weird obsession with me.

Remember when I asked you what you thought I was wearing and you actually put some thought into it and answered?

Quote:
Regardless, I might answer your question once everyone else is done curb-stomping you. I don't want to ruin the fun.

Let me know when they start.
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-14 16:05:04
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
I know exactly what you're doing but it doesn't have the outcome that you want it to.

Well you can. Viewpoints are viewpoints and those expressed on these forums are not being pushed on anyone except for my brain which does turn to mush after reading some of them.

People should and do fight to put the policies in place that they think are either best for themselves, their group or the nation as a whole. Our politicians job should be wading through the *** and adopting the best policies from every side for the benefit of the nation as a whole. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it isn't the best path. Just because you put a spin on it that makes it seem like something that itreally isn't doesn't make your viewpoint better.

I'm not being a dumbass. It's what you're doing. It's just about as stomach turning as Nausi working his protect traditional marriage in on the backs of pedophiles.


Edit: In any case you're nto working towards any kind of solution all you're doing is trying to shamelessly promote your own agenda (whether it's right or not) and shame others. You're a part of the problem.


and lol you didn't answer my question.

Yeah, I'm trying to get people to tell me the consequences of their ideology but they refuse to tell me.

I claim that their answer is no. If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong and that the answer is yes, and that you do want government money to go to babies who need it.

It's not anymore complicated than that.


And I don't even know what your question means. I will answer your question if you be a bit more specific. How am I pushing my agenda onto 7 dead babies? How doe that question even make sense? I can only assume that you're trying to be cute, but I'm just not following.
You think you know the consequences but you don't even fully understand the position so how could you? You've adopted a narrow view and are pushing that upon people.

In some cases it is yes and in other cases it is no. There are definitely situations and causes that republicans would get behind to support children and others that would not in the way some democrats think it should. If you could show that the welfare system had better checks and balances or that the money being spent was being spent on exactly what it's supposed to be you could pretty easily get more republicans on board with the way things are.

If you think it isn't more complicated than a yes or no answer then I don't know what else to tell you as you're just ignoring 99% of the problem.

Cute? I'm pretty sure that word doesn't belong anywhere near this topic. You're using the topi, in which we are discussing the murder of 7 babies, to push your own agenda. Instead of sending this off to another section of the forum and spewing the nonsense we spew at eachother every day you chose to capitalize on the disgust for these murders and relate it to your view that republicans don't care for children after they leave the womb. Oh I'm surpised you republicans even care about these kids since they already passed through the womb!

Edit: To quote you accurately...
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I have to admit, I am surprised to see the right-wingers care about babies after they're born for once.

Have you guys also changed your mind about providing government aid to feed, cloth and shelter these babies? How about education when they get a bit older?
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 16:11:36
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I'm not pushing anything onto anyone. And where were you when fone was ranting about abortion to begin with?

And now you're trying to attack me for following up on his rant?

All I just want a yes or no answer, and the only reason why I insist on it is because it's sickening to see him proclaim how much he loves and feels for those babies when he holds the ideology that he does.

If it's 'sometimes', then explain when it's yes and when it's no.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-14 16:14:44
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Have you guys also changed your mind about providing government aid to feed, cloth and shelter these babies? How about education when they get a bit older?

Your argument is ridiculous to begin with. Not one of those "hard" questions that you think it is. I don't know any Republicans that want to shut off all funding to welfare and education. I disagree with the way that the Democrats throw money at welfare and education hoping to fix a problem that goes much deeper. According to a Democrat, that means I hate poor people and children. You're just a troll trying to get a rise out of people instead of creating an actual argument.

Also, stop referring to me in posts (especially in threads I haven't even participated in) without at least some kind of quote to back up the nonsensical claims you use against me.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-14 16:20:53
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I'm not pushing anything onto anyone. And where were you when fone was ranting about abortion to begin with?

And now you're trying to attack me for following up on his rant?

All I just want a yes or no answer, and the only reason why I insist on it is because it's sickening to see him proclaim how much he loves and feels for those babies when he holds the ideology that he does.

If it's 'sometimes', then explain when it's yes and when it's no.
Deflecting blame now? tsk tsk... Are you going to blame lillica for making dead baby jokes as for your reason to bring your stuff in here now too? It's totally that guys fault! /points

I'm not attacking you at all.

You can't even seem to be honest about what you really want. What if he answered yes? Would you believe him and let it be or call him a liar? what if he said no? would you then demonize him and call him out on that? To me it seems like you've already made up your mind based on your comments like:
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Does anyone here have any doubt in their mind that the answer is a resounding 'no' from all of them. Sit there and claim that you love babies so much, but if they ever need anything from you, you kick them to the curb. Maybe the lot of you should come to terms with what your conservatism actually means so you would stop feeling so uneasy about it when faced with difficult questions.

Like I said before... if you could show people that there money is not being wasted then they could much more easily get on board. Most complaints that come from that side is about people getting their money and that they're spending it on things they want rather than need or just that it's being missappropriated in the first place. Work with them to show that you can regin in the program and make it fiscally responsible and it takes a big step. Right now we just fight eachother over it when everyone knows full well that welfar is not going away any time soon and the battles are usually fought over nothing and nothing changes. work together and try to fix the system and you come at least one step closer. The no mostly seems to play off the want/need aspect. No they shouldn't get things I can't afford myself. Yes they should be able to eat and live and be clean.

This however is just my take on the situation from the outside.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-14 16:37:50
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I'll just wait here patiently while Ihina sifts through every post I've ever made to find something to use against me.
 Bismarck.Ariyon
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By Bismarck.Ariyon 2014-04-14 16:38:51
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Took off for an hour to get some work done. Let's see if we can't get this thread back on-topic...

I agree with Fone that courts generally seem to be more lenient towards women, but they also tend to crack down on cases regarding children/infants. Hopefully this woman doesn't get let off easy.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-14 16:39:34
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I'll just wait here patiently while Ihina sifts through every post I've ever made to find something to use against me.
Don't make posts people can use against you then.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-04-14 16:43:53
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Bismarck.Ariyon said: »
Took off for an hour to get some work done. Let's see if we can't get this thread back on-topic...

I agree with Fone that courts generally seem to be more lenient towards women, but they also tend to crack down on cases regarding children/infants. Hopefully this woman doesn't get let off easy.

Mainly because we've deluded ourselves into thinking that women can't be every much as vicious a monster as a man. So men, pat your peers on the back for demeaning women and letting the excuse of 'emotion' cloud the judgement that a scumbag human is a scumbag human.

'Cause killing babies repeatedly rather than just dropping them off literally anywhere constitutes a woman in distress.

That being said, she killed infants and nothing short of invoking the power of the Third Reich or Islamic terrorism will cause Americans to swiftly throw the book at you.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-04-14 16:44:27
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What's the original topic again? This?

Odin.Godofgods said: »
Police seek answers after 7 dead babies found

PLEASANT GROVE, Utah (AP) — Police in Utah are questioning a mother and family members about the killings of seven babies whose bodies were found stuffed in cardboard boxes in a garage.

Megan Huntsman, 39, is accused of killing her babies after giving birth to the children between 1996 and 2006, investigators said. She was booked Sunday on six counts of murder. It wasn't immediately clear if Huntsman has an attorney or why there were six counts and not seven.

The gruesome case has raised a series of questions about how the killings occurred despite Huntsman carrying out what neighbors said seemed like a normal existence. Police declined to comment on a motive and on what Huntsman said during an interview with investigators.

Her estranged husband made the discovery while cleaning out the garage after recently getting out of prison. Authorities do not believe he was aware of the killings and he isn't a person of interest at this time.

Police Capt. Michael Roberts said officers responded to a call from him Saturday about a dead infant, and then they found the six other bodies.

Family and neighbors identified the estranged husband as Darren West, who has been in prison on drug-related charges.

Roberts said police believe West and Huntsman were together when the babies were born.

"We don't believe he had any knowledge of the situation," Roberts told The Associated Press

Asked how West could not have known about the situation, Roberts replied, "That's the million-dollar question. Amazing."

The babies' bodies were sent to the Utah medical examiner's office for tests, including one to determine the cause of death. DNA samples taken from the suspect and her husband will determine definitively whether the two are the parents, as investigators believe.

Huntsman also has three daughters — one teenager and two young adults — who lived at the house.

Neighbors in the middle-class neighborhood of mostly older homes 35 miles (60 kilometers) south of Salt Lake City say they were shocked by the accusations and perplexed that the woman's older children still living in the home didn't know their mother was pregnant or notice anything suspicious.

Police say West made the grisly discovery at the house owned by his parents in a city of about 35,000 people at the foot of snow-capped mountains. It's a nondescript, newer home with a brick facade and a star ornament hanging by the door.

Several police cars blocked the entrance to the house Sunday evening as officers milled about with the belongings from the garage strewn across the front lawn.

Late Sunday, West's family issued a statement saying they were in a "state of shock and confusion."

West pleaded guilty in federal court in 2005 to two counts of possessing chemicals intended to be used in manufacturing methamphetamine, court records show. In August 2006, he was sentenced to 9 years in prison, but appealed the term three times. He maintained his innocence and said he never had any intention to manufacture meth. It's unclear when he was released.

Neighbors told the AP they were shocked and horrified by the accusations of what went on inside the home. None of them even knew Huntsman was pregnant in recent years.

The family members seemed like nice people and good neighbors, said Aaron and Kathie Hawker, who lives next door.

Huntsman moved out several years ago, leaving her three daughters to live alone, the Hawkers said. They weren't sure where Huntsman has since been living.

Source

This was cold-blooded. I don't think a diagnosis of postpartum should absolve her of this crime. It mentions that the babies are supposedly full-term. She basically only spent 120/520 weeks not carrying. There is the question of paternity...Conjugal visits? Milkman? This is all pretty disgusting.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-14 16:50:29
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Refrigerator and turkey baster.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-14 16:53:54
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I'll just wait here patiently while Ihina sifts through every post I've ever made to find something to use against me.
Don't make posts people can use against you then.

I'm sure in your 12000+ posts you've never said something somebody could use against you.
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 16:55:51
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You completely dodged the question again.

Where were you when fone was ranting and pushing his ideology onto this thread. Why didn't you say anything. Why did you only say something after I countered his rant with a simple yes/no question.


Quote:
You can't even seem to be honest about what you really want. What if he answered yes? Would you believe him and let it be or call him a liar?

Don't project yourself on to me. At best, I would remember who answered yes and leave it alone. Anyone who answers 'yes' is essentially on my side and there's no reason to quarrel over it.

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
if you could show people that there money is not being wasted then they could much more easily get on board. Most complaints that come from that side is about people getting their money and that they're spending it on things they want rather than need or just that it's being missappropriated in the first place

Ok, so this went from a discussion about feeding and caring for babies/child to a general discussion on welfare without me knowing about it. Ok then. Well I can at least see the connection between the two, so I can understand jumping between the two.

If we're talking about general welfare, then I don't entirely disagree with the lot of you either. Exploits of government aid is something that seriously needs a second look. If any left winger here denies that (and I don't think any will), I would have to vehemently disagree with them.

In fact, let me ask. This board is just filled with liberals, right? Are there any liberals here who think the welfare system is fine the way it is and exploits are kept to a minimal? I'd be surprised if anyone actually thought this.

The problem with the right-wring approach is their attitude towards welfare recipients as a whole, but that can fill a whole other thread.

Now that we finished detouring, can we go back to my original question? If the baby is in need of food/shelter/etc, should it receive government aid?


Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I'll just wait here patiently while Ihina sifts through every post I've ever made to find something to use against me.

I only went to page 2 of my posts, think I found one of your posts. I don't have that much free time on my hands. You do have to acknowledge that you routinely don't answer my questions, telling me that, to paraphrase, 'I know what you're trying to do and I can't fall for it'. Yeah, they're hard questions, and I'm not going to stop asking hard questions anytime soon.

And oh hey, you actually gave the closest thing to an answer in this thread. Congrats. My opinion of you just went up a little.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-14 16:55:53
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So the weight of probability says that she's insane. That's pretty much true of any serial killer, anyhow. Question is what to do with someone who is certifiably broken and, in all likelihood, beyond human ability to repair.

I'm not sure prison is the right option. I cannot speak for women because I've done very little research into female incarceration, but typically putting a man into prison for life makes him an extreme danger to everyone who thereafter interacts with him. He literally has nothing to lose, not least because even if he was sentenced to death, it'd still be a 20 year wait before the sentence was carried out. Severe psychopathy coupled with a complete lack of hope in a place that is designed to strip anyone in there (whether guard or prisoner, 1 month or 100 years) of their humanity sounds like a very stupid idea in my mind.

Bring back insane asylums, perhaps? Then again, does someone as completely *** up as this woman have anything worth contributing to society (beyond feeding the fetishistic interests of people who collect murder-abilia)? I don't normally advocate it, but a hot lead injection into the brainstem might be the most sensible response.
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 Bismarck.Ariyon
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By Bismarck.Ariyon 2014-04-14 16:56:53
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Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
There is the question of paternity...Conjugal visits? Milkman?
The husband didn't go to jail until 2005. The children were born between 1996 and 2006. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the husband knew about it and only "discovered" them after getting out of jail in the hopes of avoiding being a suspect.
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 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 17:02:16
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karusanyoshi said: »
Ihina, that's not really a fair question, it's a loaded question.

It's still a fair question. Just say yes, it's not hard.

If I make any assumptions beyond that, that'll all be on me for making those assumptions. Feel free to call me out and I'll certainly be wrong for making those assumptions.

The question you proposed would be a good question to ask after answering my question. From there, we can have an actual discussion on the matter rather than just running in circles like we have been.

(BTW, are you actually asking me that question or do you just mean to propose a potential followup? Because that's an entirely different discussion to have.)
 
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By fonewear 2014-04-14 17:20:52
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Bismarck.Ariyon said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
There is the question of paternity...Conjugal visits? Milkman?
The husband didn't go to jail until 2005. The children were born between 1996 and 2006. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the husband knew about it and only "discovered" them after getting out of jail in the hopes of avoiding being a suspect.

Husband was a high school chemistry teacher turned meth cooker...

How can I care for kids cook meth and good be a good husband ?

Multitask man !
 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-04-14 17:23:34
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Bismarck.Ariyon said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
There is the question of paternity...Conjugal visits? Milkman?
The husband didn't go to jail until 2005. The children were born between 1996 and 2006. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the husband knew about it and only "discovered" them after getting out of jail in the hopes of avoiding being a suspect.

Yep. Sorry about that. Misread the eight to nine year sentence part while blazing through. Failed attempt to move this along. :/

karusanyoshi said: »
I suspect she hid them because they weren't his children. But having SEVEN babies 'accidentally' raises even more doubt. It's extremely likely drugs played a big role in this tragedy - she probably got high with her dealer, did unsafe sex in exchange for the drugs, then killed the evidence of her misdeeds so everyone would think she was a normal person. The fact her husband went to jail for drug charges throws her own integrity into question (not even looking at the atrocity she committed). She likely knew the guy was doing/selling/making hard drugs and didn't leave him. That right there shows the lady has a screw loose.

A simple DNA test would answer a lot of questions.

This is what I was thinking. Even for her first, she would have been about twenty-one? You would expect a teen actively hiding a pregnancy to be a more likely scenario, unless there might be a case of infidelity.
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