Could Any Game Be As EPIC As Old FFXI..

Then we have different POV toward immersion. WoW has less immersion than FFXI to me. I feel no connection toward my avatar in WoW and every other theme park MMO I've played. Just like many random MMO I've played, I couldn't even reach endgame in WoW because it failed to draw me in :X

How I interact with NPC/game world makes no difference to me when it comes to immersion. Because IMO, game world is still artificial, no matter how I interact with them, how they change according to player behavior, they never feel real. Skyrim is probably one of the more immersive RPG I've played recently, but even then it still feel "artificial" when it comes to player and world interaction. NPCs in skyrim change behavior depending on time and player action, and it's done fairly well, but it's still no where close to the complexity of real human being.

FFXI has more immersion to me, part of the reason is because of the community and how each player interact. That's something current technology can't do.....not until computer AI can simulate human behavior flawlessly and have NPC act like real human being. FFXI requires more player character interaction than majority of current-gen MMOs, thus it has more immersion.


Worst parts of real life isn't everything in FFXI, IMO. Without the worst part you can't experience the best part. If the game don't force you to deal with missions that you do need help with, and nobody wants to help because they get nothing in return, how are you gonna appreciate the help when someone really help and got nothing in return? The worst part and best part of life co-exist, it's the matter of whether you can see it or not.

I'm gonna go with Everquest as well. It was my first MMO. You didn't click an npc to talk with it. You typed in say near the npc and it would respond. Well, if you spelled correctly & the npc had a response for some key words in that sentence.

I think you're making a distinction between immersion in the game and immersion in the community. That's a very important distinction to make.

I mentioned somewhere that I communicated with people outside of the game, so I really don't consider immersion in the community to be a part of immersion in the game. The forced cooperation of FFXI definitely made for stronger community bonds, I won't deny. On a gameplay level, though, I think it was pretty weak. I don't think I'm very immersed in a game when I'm camping an NM and constantly sending tells to my friends or Alt+Tabbing to AIM or a forum.

Although, to argue against myself, I did tend to lose track of time and other considerations when I was over-pulling for an XP party. /shrug There is so little in FFXI that requires vigilant attention that I just don't get sucked in. That's probably why I have fond memories of the hellacious series of attempts to beat Alexander in the ToAU story missions, because the jobs and competence of the friends I was doing it with were not up to the task and I had to work overtime to try to find a strategy that worked. I ultimately failed, but actually having to plan for once made it interesting.

That's ridiculous. That's like suggesting that I'm incapable of enjoying a screening of The Incredibles without half a dozen babies crying and some jerk teenager throwing popcorn in my hair.

I agree that gameplay of FFXI is rather weak lol, but if you take away the community/player interaction part in an MMO, I don't think ANY theme-park MMO can beat a single player game experience.

I'd rather play an MMO with weak gameplay and strong player interaction. If I want a game with strong gameplay I'd just play single player.

I do think immersion in the community is part of immersion in the game, if I've never touch FFXI I would not be in the community to begin with. OP feel satisfied with time sink accomplishment, mostly because all the accomplishment are recognized by the community. If FFXI is a single player game, who the hell want to play a game for years for 1 item?



Watching The Incredibles with babies crying is very different lol.

The problem with many analyses on the gameplay mechanics of XI is that they're laced with the knowledge of the present and not the framework we had in the past. When you were in an EXP party back in '05 there were many unknowns that kept people paying and playing and part of the mystery was trying to unravel all of it.

What was the best food?
What does this combination of gear do?
Do I have enough acc for this PT?
How much damage can I throw into Kirin's backside?
Will Despot finally spawn so we can pop Byakko?
Can my group beat this BCNM that has zero information about it on the big info sites?
It's 2AM and we just claimed Aspidochelone with the B team, can we win?

People were immersed in XI otherwise we wouldn't be here eleven years later discussing how good/bad/terrible/amazing the game was/is. I cannot guarantee such success with A Realm Reborn. The zones of Vana'diel once inspired awe and the crawl through some dangerous reach will forever occupy real estate in the recesses of your mind next to your kid brother punching you in the *** or your first kiss.

Whenever I hear the name Fafnir, I'll be reminded me veritable war declared between linkshells to sup from the fount of Dragon's Aery. Who needed a reality show when you could live one? Do you train those *** or form a makeshift alliance for the sake of farming? Linkshell leaders just jumped with the bank? Sound the fkn alarm.

Like growing up, things lose their luster when you're exposed to more of the same. XI compared to the complexity of a Titan HM or Garuda EM in XIV may be laughable now but at the time, getting Astral Flowed in Dynamis was *** amazing as was climbing to Uleguerand and being greeted by Jormungand in all his serpenty glory.

Boom, everyone just got a front row seat to getting owned.

Don't get me started on the lulz of internal Linkshell affairs. Sparthos, you've been brought before the sackholders council for acts of blatant insubordination. What say you? DKP is on the line, as is your membership in this illustrious organization.

<3

You just described most of the reasons I would quit every few months, Sparthos. The reasons I came back were rarely very healthy. Like, right now I have been pining to play an MMO because I'm trapped indoors by winter. Given a choice between frostbite and pointless hibernation 'til the weather is warm again, I tend to opt for the latter, but I'm not going to laud it as something good.

Nothing like spending 10 hours in Gustav tunnel, after LFG for the better part of the week at level 59?, in Jeuno. Only to be killed numerous times by a Goblin who loves to throw bombs at paper-defense DRKs.

10 hours of xp and all I got to show for it was not being able to equip my Haubergeon.

Ugh, I feel like I'm bashing the game too much. It had and has flaws, but I would've stopped playing after a couple weeks if it was that terrible.

How about people list of what is actually epic about FFXI? Remembering that "epic" is not a generic synonym for "good." That's kinda what bugged me in the first place with the OP: using the word "epic" to mean "nostalgic" or "pleasurable in a masochistic way" is silly.

People to move on and play better games.

Some people like leveling 1-99 in a day or getting weapons that compare to E/R/M with a quick point turn in or lucky drop. This kinda thing kills teamwork and competition. Kinda like soloing kirin on bst.... These things are not Epic they are sad and SE should be ashamed.

It would be great, but no better games exist.

I'm not debating the health of the grind that XI once possessed, I can attest to being very stressed sometimes with endgame and the schedule of events but XI was what it was - a great game that I enjoyed despite it's failings. Through my experiences, I have no issues calling the game epic - it delivered much of what I wished for in an RPG and timeless entertainment.

There are many good things XI did and horrible head scratching decisions. What I'd like to see is the bad fall to the wayside and the good continue forth.

When I think FFXI, Epic just comes to mind not to mention failing can be Epic in its own way.

Edit: also, the game deserve's a lot of bashing because instead of fixing the flaws of the game SE just made them worse or made more.

I will say that many enjoy failure, or at least enjoy the challenge that often brings failure and then the feeling of accomplishment after working together to go back and win it.

It's why I like Dark Souls. The game punishes you for making a mistake. And often times you have to fail a lot to learn how to win. But winning after that trial is amazing. There's also a bit of exclusiveness to it.

Game is far from perfect though. I hate many parts of it but as an entire package... well... 996 days of play time.

The best things for this game in my opinion were first 75.
First full set of artifact armor even though warriors is god ugly.
The first time I seen the ws tachi:gekko I was in love and needed to lvl Sam.
First Nation rank 10 was awesome.
Beating cop before the update.
All of treasures was amazing content.
And the best thing of all was getting my optical hat.
All the gear that we have that are irrelevant now just the memories from the past nothing could take that back

I would say no.
I quit last year some time and have tried playing multiple different MMOs including Aion, Rift, WoW(don't kill me), DCUO, FFXIV, MWO, and lately TESO beta. None of them has come even close to the teamwork and strategy that FFXI provided pre-Abyssea. Many of those games I felt that I was playing with a bunch of mentally challenged kids that just raged all the time. Now I know that FFXI has had it's fair share of douchebags, but for the most part the community was helpful back then.

I find myself constantly comparing new games to FFXI and so far nothing has come close. I have fond memories of FFXI, but not enough to start back up again lol.

Only thing I really miss is gear swapping.

if u loved what ffxi once was this is needing support and *could* be the next ffxi. I know im supporting this game
Your text to link here...

Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

gotta start somewhere and as stands this is the closest thing out to what ffxi was all about before lvl 80+

they do have Q&A as well for requests ideas etc etc

I have mixed feelings on FFXI. Honestly the time spent pursuing things could have been spent better. Slaving away for a Hecatomb Harness that would never drop(saving points so others cant outbid you), then I finally get it and replaced it with Zahak's mail a month later... Bleh.. lots of drama from that thing. Did get to meet some pretty cool people, burned some bridges in the process. Back then if you joined another Linkshell people would never want to talk to you again, end of story. These people still are like that to this day (after quitting)

Abyssea was fun starting out, but things quickly became a pissing contest.With that things got pretty stale. I do think back to the very old days, and even though the grind sucked.

I did enjoy it all, well most of it. My first 75 was Dragoon, and people hated that job so much. Invites didn't really come. Once me and some other Dragoon's got our drachen armets we did one of the first Dragoon Burns (to my knowledge) on Fenrir. We burned bats from the tomb, all the way to upper delk. tower.

The reactions of some of the people were priceless. We had parties that rudely tried to camp on top of us, and here a bunch of LOLDRG were making things miserable for them. Being the under dog at the time felt awesome.


I also loved the CoP expansion but that also bought plenty of drama as well. We literally sat on the 3rd floor of our last promy because the linkshell leaders g/f had some kind of falling out. (she also played.) I seriously had to call her and comfort her lmfao.

HNM's were a love/hate relationship. I did have a lot of fun, I got to do things as Dragoon to most HNM's if I felt like it. Not many linkshells let me do that much.

Never going to forget fighting Dark Ixion/ Sand Worm/ Fafnir/Behemoth

As much as nostalgia hits me when I hear music from the game I quit. Like a girl you ended up dumping, there is no going back. Things can never be the same or what they once were. You remember the good, and that's it. Going back to something just leads to false expectations and disappointment.

@ Squishy ya, but regardless, seems that the primary focus for Pantheon is strategy, teamwork, and social interactions which as many stated is not really found in recent mmo. FFXI was the only 1 of its kind to be this unique everquest and such did have some but ffxi itself was its own thing. So....would love to see what this game brings to the table given it gets the funding

ya, just stating generally the game itself has changing quite a bit since the 75 era and this new game looks like a refreshing change to all the casual style mmo akin to WoW

Let me visit the tavnazian ruins alrdy

I can't remember much of what changed in that period. It's why people have such hardcore nostalgia goggles about the game. I started playing FFXI about 3 months after the NA release, so right at the start of 2004, and the game was virtually identical in 2009. I quit and lost my account and came back and there I was, 5 years after the content was implemented, still trying to collect the same crap from Tu'lia and Dynamis.

I really can't fathom, looking back, why people tolerated it. I explicitly spent my time doing anything else, generally hunting rare NMs with useless drops that no one remembers exist (and making a small fortune on Siren's Hairs back in the day exactly because of that habit). What the hell was fun about Salvage after the first couple times you'd done it? Oh boy, yet another wasted night with no bee NM pop. Top marks, SE.

The sea change since then has been remarkable. Unfortunately, SE doesn't have the manpower assigned to the game to keep producing content, which is why they keep recycling old stuff. They had a customer base that was willing to accept being bent over and made to bleed by the random number generator, but they noticed when that base started to disappear. If FFXI were rebuilt on Seekers content, opening up a revamp of Abyssea as its first expansion, I think it could be quite competitive on the current market. But it wouldn't be the EverQuest clone some people think they want back and thank merciful heaven for that.