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No tips after dinner for gays!
Server: Asura
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-12-11 13:48:36
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »@kingnobody You're missing my point. I'm very specifically referring to "gays adopting and marrying just to fit into this heterosexual American Family mold." We missed each other then. I don't disagree with you at all nor want to counter your argument.
I was just pointing out, as Onorgul said, that some heterosexual family members also are unfit to raise children.
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Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-12-11 13:50:35
it transcends sexuality since it ultimately has nothing to do with sexuality. I completely disagree with you here. There's an episode on Modern Family about Mother's Day and it satirizes the effeminate dad's frustrations with the holiday and superimposed gender roles.
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 Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-12-11 13:51:07
50% heterosexual divorce rate says that getting married is probably caused by ill-advised ideas practically every day
Marriage is the #1 cause of divorce!
 Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-12-11 13:51:09
I want marriage re-defined to suit my preferences and whims. If you don't agree with then then you're a stupid bigot. By your own admission you have already done the same... Marriage has not always been the way it is... it has evolved over a very very very long time to get to where it is today... now it seems like you have it in a place where you want to keep it and well if anyone wants to change that you just slap their hands and say no! Our change was the final change! lols...
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-12-11 13:51:23
With a gay marriage, neither the guys nor the gals can bone each other and pop out a baby. This is why we need more government PSAs promoting homosexuality or, at the very least, buttsex. How does Doug Stanhope put it... "Take one in the fanny, save money on a nanny!" 
Sponsored by Astroglide®
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-12-11 13:54:44
Ugh Astroglide is so sticky!
Proud sponsor of Gun Oil®.
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Server: Shiva
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Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-12-11 13:59:12
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »it transcends sexuality since it ultimately has nothing to do with sexuality. I completely disagree with you here. There's an episode on Modern Family about Mother's Day and it satirizes the effeminate dad's frustrations with the holiday and superimposed gender roles. I haven't seen a single episode of this show (never heard of it -- I don't have cable nor watch it online), so I'm afraid your reference is kinda meaningless. It'd help if you expand it a bit more.
I stand by my own experience, though: I've watched straight people pressured into marriage for a variety of really bad reasons, not least of which is the urge to conform to the "American dream" or whatever nonsense we're presently using to refer to heteronormative cultural myths. Hell, my brother has been dating his girlfriend for only about a year and our mom is already talking about marriage.
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Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-12-11 14:10:25
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »it transcends sexuality since it ultimately has nothing to do with sexuality. I completely disagree with you here. There's an episode on Modern Family about Mother's Day and it satirizes the effeminate dad's frustrations with the holiday and superimposed gender roles. I haven't seen a single episode of this show (never heard of it -- I don't have cable nor watch it online), so I'm afraid your reference is kinda meaningless. It'd help if you expand it a bit more.
I stand by my own experience, though: I've watched straight people pressured into marriage for a variety of really bad reasons, not least of which is the urge to conform to the "American dream" or whatever nonsense we're presently using to refer to heteronormative cultural myths. Hell, my brother has been dating his girlfriend for only about a year and our mom is already talking about marriage.
It's on Channel 4 or 7 I forget. Both shows do a very good job of saterizing their frustrations trying to fit into family life, all while comparing it to heterosexual family life. So you see the similar dilemmas as well as the ones unique to the gay couples as to why they are together why they want kids etc...
It boils down to a straight couple might be pressured to marry/kids because mom. A gay couple gets pressured because they have a point to prove to society itself, in addition to the standard pressures of heterosexual couples. That having to prove something to society is unique to same-sex couples is argue.
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-12-11 14:35:26
I have no idea what Channel 4 or Channel 7 are. I don't live in Los Angeles or wherever you mean. If you're referring to some local NBC affiliate or whatever, I have an old TV for my PS2 that needs a converter box to get digital signal and I can't be bothered. I'll try to find it on Hulu or something.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »It boils down to a straight couple might be pressured to marry/kids because mom. A gay couple gets pressured because they have a point to prove to society itself, in addition to the standard pressures of heterosexual couples. That having to prove something to society is unique to same-sex couples is argue. I'll grant you this. It's a pretty narrow distinction, but it is there.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-12-11 14:35:44
I want marriage re-defined to suit my preferences and whims. If you don't agree with then then you're a stupid bigot. By your own admission you have already done the same... Marriage has not always been the way it is... it has evolved over a very very very long time to get to where it is today... now it seems like you have it in a place where you want to keep it and well if anyone wants to change that you just slap their hands and say no! Our change was the final change! lols...
Actually I'm not. I don't want to deny anyone their own ability to find someone to declare them "married". I just wish that in doing so, they don't force others to accept them. Acceptance of a marriage should be a freedom left to everyone, in which the government has no to the absolute minimum role to play. That way those who want to recognize it can and those who don't, don't have to.
But clearly that's not "fair" enough for most of you.
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-12-11 14:40:16
I just wish that in doing so, they don't force others to accept them. Define "accept."
The only way marriage affects anyone else is in terms of legal privileges granted by the government. I can find you people right now that don't "accept" the legal marriage of their heterosexual acquaintances/relatives for any number of reasons that range from stupid to bigoted to sensible (simple example: lots of people will not call it a real marriage when a 22-year-old woman marries an 86-year-old millionaire). Literally no human being's acceptance is relevant to marriage as the only acceptance that matters is that of the entity which grants privileges.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
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Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-12-11 14:41:59
I just wish that in doing so, they don't force others to accept them. Define "accept."
The only way marriage affects anyone else is in terms of legal privileges granted by the government. I can find you people right now that don't "accept" the legal marriage of their heterosexual acquaintances/relatives for any number of reasons that range from stupid to bigoted to sensible (simple example: lots of people will not call it a real marriage when a 22-year-old woman marries an 86-year-old millionaire). Literally no human being's acceptance is relevant to marriage as the only acceptance that matters is that of the entity which grants privileges.
Then there should be no legal privileges or penalties granted by the government for legal marriages of homo or heterosexuals.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-12-11 14:45:00
All (most?) of the state's that currently allow same-sex marriage have done so because their constituents have voted to recognize these unions legally. It's the individual's decision to "accept" marriages based on their own personal criteria, but the legal definition is not up for interpretation.
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Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-12-11 14:48:21
Then there should be no legal privileges or penalties granted by the government for legal marriages of homo or heterosexuals. Then they wouldn't be "legal" marriages because there is no legal element involved. Which, as I've written a couple times, would suit me fine.
Unless you're suggesting that bisexuals should get privileges when they marry (it's fun to play with semantics).
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-12-11 14:50:43
I have no idea what Channel 4 or Channel 7 are. I don't live in Los Angeles or wherever you mean. If you're referring to some local NBC affiliate or whatever, I have an old TV for my PS2 that needs a converter box to get digital signal and I can't be bothered. I'll try to find it on Hulu or something.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »It boils down to a straight couple might be pressured to marry/kids because mom. A gay couple gets pressured because they have a point to prove to society itself, in addition to the standard pressures of heterosexual couples. That having to prove something to society is unique to same-sex couples is argue. I'll grant you this. It's a pretty narrow distinction, but it is there. The New Normal is on Hulu and has more political jokes, unfortunately it got canceled. It portrayed a gay couple in Los Angeles that I don't think viewers were ready for. Modern Family still airs, the humor is much more G rated. The gay couple on Modern Family is very tame in comparison and have virtually no gay friends.
You'll constantly see these references to "society expects us" to act this way, to do this etc...
E.g. Can you butch it up I don't want the other kids parents knowing we're gay.
E.g Can you not be so effeminate people will think we're going to turn our kid gay.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-12-11 14:51:04
MA CA IO NJ were all judicial decisions.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-12-11 14:51:49
Then there should be no legal privileges or penalties granted by the government for legal marriages of homo or heterosexuals. Then they wouldn't be "legal" marriages because there is no legal element involved. Which, as I've written a couple times, would suit me fine.
Unless you're suggesting that bisexuals should get privileges when they marry (it's fun to play with semantics). Well, then I guess we agree on an acceptable outcome.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-12-11 14:54:38
I want marriage re-defined to suit my preferences and whims. If you don't agree with then then you're a stupid bigot. By your own admission you have already done the same... Marriage has not always been the way it is... it has evolved over a very very very long time to get to where it is today... now it seems like you have it in a place where you want to keep it and well if anyone wants to change that you just slap their hands and say no! Our change was the final change! lols... Actually I'm not. I don't want to deny anyone their own ability to find someone to declare them "married". I just wish that in doing so, they don't force others to accept them. Acceptance of a marriage should be a freedom left to everyone, in which the government has no to the absolute minimum role to play. That way those who want to recognize it can and those who don't, don't have to. But clearly that's not "fair" enough for most of you. I don't think anyone cares if people don't recognize it on a personal level... We can't force you to like something or even care about it... The governments role in this should be to make it equal and afford the same benefits to gay couples as straight couples... personal acceptance is your own thing though...
I would say that you take your own advice as well... keep your mind on your own business and let people have their own marriages whether you agree or disagree with them...
The problem is that people aren't content to let others get married and just disaprove from afar... they are, in fact, pretty vocal in opposition to gay marriage... not only vocal but active in attempting to make sure it never becomes a reality...
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Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-12-11 15:01:46
MA CA IO NJ were all judicial decisions. Meh if Prop 22 got on the ballot again it wouldn't pass, and by a large margin. Additionally, CA's constituents had no problem with Judge Walker's ruling.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-12-11 15:04:12
I just wish that in doing so, they don't force others to accept them. Define "accept."
The only way marriage affects anyone else is in terms of legal privileges granted by the government. I can find you people right now that don't "accept" the legal marriage of their heterosexual acquaintances/relatives for any number of reasons that range from stupid to bigoted to sensible (simple example: lots of people will not call it a real marriage when a 22-year-old woman marries an 86-year-old millionaire). Literally no human being's acceptance is relevant to marriage as the only acceptance that matters is that of the entity which grants privileges.
Then there should be no legal privileges or penalties granted by the government for legal marriages of homo or heterosexuals. But that would be a ::GASP:: redefinition of marriage!!
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
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Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-12-11 15:05:41
I want marriage re-defined to suit my preferences and whims. If you don't agree with then then you're a stupid bigot. By your own admission you have already done the same... Marriage has not always been the way it is... it has evolved over a very very very long time to get to where it is today... now it seems like you have it in a place where you want to keep it and well if anyone wants to change that you just slap their hands and say no! Our change was the final change! lols... Actually I'm not. I don't want to deny anyone their own ability to find someone to declare them "married". I just wish that in doing so, they don't force others to accept them. Acceptance of a marriage should be a freedom left to everyone, in which the government has no to the absolute minimum role to play. That way those who want to recognize it can and those who don't, don't have to. But clearly that's not "fair" enough for most of you. I don't think anyone cares if people don't recognize it on a personal level... We can't force you to like something or even care about it... The governments role in this should be to make it equal and afford the same benefits to gay couples as straight couples... personal acceptance is your own thing though...
I would say that you take your own advice as well... keep your mind on your own business and let people have their own marriages whether you agree or disagree with them...
The problem is that people aren't content to let others get married and just disaprove from afar... they are, in fact, pretty vocal in opposition to gay marriage... not only vocal but active in attempting to make sure it never becomes a reality...
There are way more militant activists pushing the other side. "Hey you don't support my alternative lifestyle? Well I'm going to make it law that you HAVE to accept it."
That's the *** part.
 Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-12-11 15:08:43
Marriage has been apart of contractual law for literally hundreds of years.
The "government" has been involved in marriage, due to contract law, for hundreds of years.
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-12-11 15:09:15
There are way more militant activists pushing the other side. "Hey you don't support my alternative lifestyle? Well I'm going to make it law that you HAVE to accept it."
That's the *** part. You were doing so well and then you had to go and backpedal.
Explain to me how my being married or not married to a man or a woman is in any way a.) dependent upon your tacit or explicit consent AND b.) affects your life in any demonstrable way.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
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Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-12-11 15:10:56
I just wish that in doing so, they don't force others to accept them. Define "accept."
The only way marriage affects anyone else is in terms of legal privileges granted by the government. I can find you people right now that don't "accept" the legal marriage of their heterosexual acquaintances/relatives for any number of reasons that range from stupid to bigoted to sensible (simple example: lots of people will not call it a real marriage when a 22-year-old woman marries an 86-year-old millionaire). Literally no human being's acceptance is relevant to marriage as the only acceptance that matters is that of the entity which grants privileges.
Then there should be no legal privileges or penalties granted by the government for legal marriages of homo or heterosexuals. But that would be a ::GASP:: redefinition of marriage!! No it wouldn't, that would just remove to an extent the role of government from it. Government never used to catalog it or licence it, or extend benefits and penalties to it. Going to that model does not change the nature of marriage itself. Going from husband & wife to wife & wife does.
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-12-11 15:11:39
Marriage has been apart of contractual law for literally hundreds of years.
The "government" has been involved in marriage, due to contract law, for hundreds of years. And that, and only that, should be the government's role in marriage.
We need to vote in politicians who think with their brains and not their hearts/religion/business/reproductive body parts.
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-12-11 15:15:26
Legalization and Acceptance are totally different. There is no good reason why gay marriage should be illegal, there are plenty of excuses a person can use to not accept it.
Fenrir.Atheryn
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 1665
By Fenrir.Atheryn 2013-12-11 15:16:44
We need to vote in politicians who think with their brains and not their hearts/religion/business/reproductive body parts.
Then that rules out humans.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-12-11 15:20:10
I just wish that in doing so, they don't force others to accept them. Define "accept."
The only way marriage affects anyone else is in terms of legal privileges granted by the government. I can find you people right now that don't "accept" the legal marriage of their heterosexual acquaintances/relatives for any number of reasons that range from stupid to bigoted to sensible (simple example: lots of people will not call it a real marriage when a 22-year-old woman marries an 86-year-old millionaire). Literally no human being's acceptance is relevant to marriage as the only acceptance that matters is that of the entity which grants privileges.
Then there should be no legal privileges or penalties granted by the government for legal marriages of homo or heterosexuals. But that would be a ::GASP:: redefinition of marriage!! No it wouldn't, that would just remove to an extent the role of government from it. Government never used to catalog it or licence it, or extend benefits and penalties to it. Going to that model does not change the nature of marriage itself. Going from husband & wife to wife & wife does. Indeed, and the current definition is a largely contractual one. You're just selectively choosing what you like out of the current legally recognized definition of marriage.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-12-11 15:20:37
There are way more militant activists pushing the other side. "Hey you don't support my alternative lifestyle? Well I'm going to make it law that you HAVE to accept it."
That's the *** part. You were doing so well and then you had to go and backpedal.
Explain to me how my being married or not married to a man or a woman is in any way a.) dependent upon your tacit or explicit consent AND b.) affects your life in any demonstrable way.
If I wish to purchase insurance and my insurance carrier pools me and my wife in with other "married" couples, my rates are affected by the overall pool and not separate groups within it that the carrier might wish to market.
Any benefit (paid for with public money) that a gay marriage receives is paid for by me.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-12-11 15:22:30
That's a horrible example >.>
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