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Questions on the forthcoming Syria strike.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-09-12 14:02:31
It's amazing to see that when steps are taken to diffuse a near-universally unwanted scenario that the THANKS OBAMA rhetoric still continues. He can't eat crackers without people getting pissed.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-09-12 14:04:16
Its not really amazing, whiners will always whine. Play COD for a year or two and that becomes real apparent.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-12 14:08:21
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »So whats the right move here? fantasy stuff ftfy
Are you able to look at anything without a partisan bias? Vic's 100% correct. Wait, I'm partisan now?
Vic isn't correct at all. Obama isn't a winner in this, he shot his mouth off and got rescued by Putin. Putin is a winner by making Obama look bad (again). Assad is also a winner by not having to worry about Obama coming through with his "threat." Syria is really the biggest loser because now they have a few more years of civil war until the rebels are exhausted or Assad is dead.
So basically, everything that Vic said is completely false and, by and far, the most partisan crap on page 8.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-09-12 14:09:34
He can't eat crackers without people getting pissed.
well, wtf, he doesn't even have the decency to choke on them.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-12 14:11:15
Of course I'm correct, and thats why that troll is blocked, he is worthless, just like amandarius, firing blanks at everyone, always wrong. Which is saying a lot about Vic.
Instead of trying to see a different opinion, he "blocks a troll" and then resorts to name bashing (something a liberal is known for I guess).
Another example that a liberal isn't open for debate, because once a debate arises, they put their fingers in their ears and pretend that the opposing view doesn't exist.
Must be nice to live in their fantasy world. Maybe I should try some of their koolaid, I would love to see what sort of world they live in.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-09-12 14:15:37
Decries partisanship and name bashing; Uses the word liberal as a pejorative
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-09-12 14:23:33
lol, to most of you guys Obama is just simply incapable of failure, everything is just shuffled into the "Thanks Obama" column, it's hilarious.
Take off your blinders.
As for Syria, I don't remember this being part of the deal.
"When we see the United States really wants stability in our region and stops threatening, striving to attack, and also ceases arms deliveries to terrorists, then we will believe that the necessary processes can be finalized,".
Said a few hours ago by Assad. Maybe Obama should call up Putin and ask how he should respond.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-12 14:24:15
Decries partisanship and name bashing; Uses the word liberal as a pejorative And?
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-09-12 14:25:19
makes it damn hard for most of us here to take you seriously when you contradict yourself in the same sentence.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-12 14:26:16
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »So whats the right move here?
The right move just happened, or is happening, and everyone is going to come out looking like winners except for Putin and Nausi, Putin who literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and Nausi because he is still living in a fantasy world where Romney carried Florida and Ohio and won the Presidency.
Obama wins because he doesn't have to strike Syria, which is exactly what the American people were in favor of (not striking Syria). Instead, he threatens it, and spurs the world into taking the action they should have a month ago. America doesn't always have to come up with the the peaceful solution, there are 60 or so other countries that signed the chemical weapons treaty and are responsible for enforcing it.
The other real big winner is John Boehner, whose own party makes up the most worthless group of Representatives to ever sit in the House. He doesn't have to put this very controversial strike resolution, that he has publicly supported, up to a vote, which he probably would have lost, again.
Putin would have looked good for having this peaceful idea (something he had to come up with, after stating he wouldn't intervene in a Syrian strike), a thing he is desperate for, considering he is a terrible leader constantly making bad headlines, but he just had to write a pointless article bashing America. Great job accomplishing nothing there Putin.
Our fleet isn't leaving the region, we can still strike at any time if Assad does something stupid again, which he cannot afford to do, because chances are the world, not even the American public, would be so forgiving after giving him a small reprieve here. Meanwhile, the clock continues to tick down on Assad's reign. And Congress has to go back to work.
I'm sorry, what is partisan about this other than the people being members of different parties? Very little is even remotely opinion.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-09-12 14:27:05
Decries partisanship and name bashing; Uses the word liberal as a pejorative And? I'll let you wrestle that one out for yourself.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-09-12 14:28:08
I'll let you wrestle that one out for yourself.
sry, I spelled it out. >.<
I didn't use crayon though!
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-09-12 14:30:22
Assad can say whatever he wants, it doesn't matter. He will do what he is told, nice try tho nausi.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-12 14:32:42
makes it damn hard for most of us here to take you seriously when you contradict yourself in the same sentence. Well, it is not contradicting oneself to decry partisan and name bashing while considering liberalism as something bad.
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »So whats the right move here?
The right move just happened, or is happening, and everyone is going to come out looking like winners except for Putin and Nausi, Putin who literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and Nausi because he is still living in a fantasy world where Romney carried Florida and Ohio and won the Presidency.
Obama wins because he doesn't have to strike Syria, which is exactly what the American people were in favor of (not striking Syria). Instead, he threatens it, and spurs the world into taking the action they should have a month ago. America doesn't always have to come up with the the peaceful solution, there are 60 or so other countries that signed the chemical weapons treaty and are responsible for enforcing it.
The other real big winner is John Boehner, whose own party makes up the most worthless group of Representatives to ever sit in the House. He doesn't have to put this very controversial strike resolution, that he has publicly supported, up to a vote, which he probably would have lost, again.
Putin would have looked good for having this peaceful idea (something he had to come up with, after stating he wouldn't intervene in a Syrian strike), a thing he is desperate for, considering he is a terrible leader constantly making bad headlines, but he just had to write a pointless article bashing America. Great job accomplishing nothing there Putin.
Our fleet isn't leaving the region, we can still strike at any time if Assad does something stupid again, which he cannot afford to do, because chances are the world, not even the American public, would be so forgiving after giving him a small reprieve here. Meanwhile, the clock continues to tick down on Assad's reign. And Congress has to go back to work.
I'm sorry, what is partisan about this other than the people being members of different parties? Very little is even remotely opinion. bolded the partisan statements for you. Also name bashing. Since it is hard for to read a block of text like that.
Nevertheless this is just regurgitating talking points from the left (which, of course, is the number 2 excuse the left accuse anyone who make a case against them).
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-12 14:33:31
I'll let you guys go back to the playground, I have grownup things to do.
I'll check back to see if you are still playing nicely.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-09-12 14:38:25
I'll let you guys go back to the playground, I have grownup things to do.
I'll check back to see if you are still playing nicely.
You come into every political thread throwing ad hominem attacks around at the "liberals" and then get pissy when someone does it back?
Put on your adult pants and deal with it.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-09-12 14:39:45
Assad can say whatever he wants, it doesn't matter. He will do what he is told, nice try tho nausi.
(quoted for later)
Lets see how the story progresses. I'm sure Assad was already told how to move forward (by Putin) Vic.
Can't trust those Russians....
Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-09-12 14:39:52
I don't think the ultra-conservative here understand that there are moderates also. FFXIAH P&R commentary is actually tame compared to most news sites.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-12 14:42:46
makes it damn hard for most of us here to take you seriously when you contradict yourself in the same sentence. Well, it is not contradicting oneself to decry partisan and name bashing while considering liberalism as something bad.
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »So whats the right move here?
The right move just happened, or is happening, and everyone is going to come out looking like winners except for Putin and Nausi, Putin who literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and Nausi because he is still living in a fantasy world where Romney carried Florida and Ohio and won the Presidency.
Obama wins because he doesn't have to strike Syria, which is exactly what the American people were in favor of (not striking Syria). Instead, he threatens it, and spurs the world into taking the action they should have a month ago. America doesn't always have to come up with the the peaceful solution, there are 60 or so other countries that signed the chemical weapons treaty and are responsible for enforcing it.
The other real big winner is John Boehner, whose own party makes up the most worthless group of Representatives to ever sit in the House. He doesn't have to put this very controversial strike resolution, that he has publicly supported, up to a vote, which he probably would have lost, again.
Putin would have looked good for having this peaceful idea (something he had to come up with, after stating he wouldn't intervene in a Syrian strike), a thing he is desperate for, considering he is a terrible leader constantly making bad headlines, but he just had to write a pointless article bashing America. Great job accomplishing nothing there Putin.
Our fleet isn't leaving the region, we can still strike at any time if Assad does something stupid again, which he cannot afford to do, because chances are the world, not even the American public, would be so forgiving after giving him a small reprieve here. Meanwhile, the clock continues to tick down on Assad's reign. And Congress has to go back to work.
I'm sorry, what is partisan about this other than the people being members of different parties? Very little is even remotely opinion. bolded the partisan statements for you. Also name bashing. Since it is hard for to read a block of text like that.
Nevertheless this is just regurgitating talking points from the left (which, of course, is the number 2 excuse the left accuse anyone who make a case against them).
1. The majority of the Republican base including the GOP's own analysts convinced themselves of exactly that. It's also a slight against Naus and not a political assertion...
2. You can make all the bones you want, the voting records of the current Republican members of congress reflect constant blockading of the legislative process. Lawmakers are worthless when they spend their entire terms trying to block needed legislation.
3. Boehner has publicly supported action against Syria and was voted down in subcommittee. Again, fact, not partisan or opinion.
I still don't get how you can drag partisan BS into a conversation instinctively and then claim that you are some kind of victim.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-09-12 14:44:10
He resorts to partisan attacks and the RL card because he's out of things to say. You're a terrible representative of your cause when you can't even be arsed to compose reasonable arguments that articulate your points without descending into partisan potshots. Perhaps you should educate yourself rather than read off the latest talking points.
Some internal consistency would be nice too.
The only thing we've seen with any consistency however is an over-reliance on blaming Obama for any and everything. Naturally it's what you've been fed by your sources and critical thinking is in short supply. Neocons gonna neocon.
Isn't it about time we divert to Obamacare and Benghazi? Herp derp.
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Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-09-12 14:48:49
I think we're all *** for entertaining him, & not giving more credence to this AC / cable TV plan of mine.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-12 14:55:58
I think we're all *** for entertaining him, & not giving more credence to this AC / cable TV plan of mine.
So you're saying he stirs ***up for entertainment... How does that make him not a troll?
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-09-12 14:56:15
Assad can say whatever he wants, it doesn't matter. He will do what he is told, nice try tho nausi.
(quoted for later)
Lets see how the story progresses. I'm sure Assad was already told how to move forward (by Putin) Vic.
Can't trust those Russians....
Yeah, lets see. You quote a lot of things for later, but nothing ever comes of it, because this is the real world. I'll fill you in on the details of why Assad has to do what he is told since you continue to live in your own little fantasy world.
If Assad, for any reason, backs out of the deal, then its going to make his only friend in the whole world, Putin, look like a bigger idiot than he already is. Because Putin has backed himself into a corner with this desperate peace deal of his. By writing that stupid op-ed, he is fully banking on the deal going through, because he knows if it doesn't, he has given the US even more reason to strike. And since he has already said he won't intervene in a strike, yep, he better make sure Assad does exactly what he is told.
Yesterday, the resolution probably wouldn't have passed. Tomorrow, it probably would, funny how insulting America never really works out. Assad has a been given an out, if he passes it up, he will literally be alone. Make sure you quote it for later when you have to figure out where it all went wrong for you.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-09-12 14:57:26
I think we're all *** for entertaining him, & not giving more credence to this AC / cable TV plan of mine.
So you're saying he stirs ***up for entertainment... How does that make him not a troll?
He is a troll, there is this thing called a block feature (since the mods are worthless), I promise, you won't miss a single thing.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-09-12 15:10:01
So you're saying he stirs ***up for entertainment... How does that make him not a troll?
no, I'm saying exactly what I said.....
I have no idea if he really believes the stuff he says or if he's just trying to get a rise out of you. nor do I care, to be honest.
don't project your weird thoguhts on me, mmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnn
By Enuyasha 2013-09-12 16:59:58
I love how no one addressed my amazing Revolutionary War point :(
Im just gunna go back to shouting obscenities at my TV now,because my greatness isnt for this time :(
Thats a joke, im not THAT vain >_>'
Assad can say whatever he wants, it doesn't matter. He will do what he is told, nice try tho nausi.
(quoted for later)
Lets see how the story progresses. I'm sure Assad was already told how to move forward (by Putin) Vic.
Can't trust those Russians....
Yeah, lets see. You quote a lot of things for later, but nothing ever comes of it, because this is the real world. I'll fill you in on the details of why Assad has to do what he is told since you continue to live in your own little fantasy world.
If Assad, for any reason, backs out of the deal, then its going to make his only friend in the whole world, Putin, look like a bigger idiot than he already is. Because Putin has backed himself into a corner with this desperate peace deal of his. By writing that stupid op-ed, he is fully banking on the deal going through, because he knows if it doesn't, he has given the US even more reason to strike. And since he has already said he won't intervene in a strike, yep, he better make sure Assad does exactly what he is told.
Yesterday, the resolution probably wouldn't have passed. Tomorrow, it probably would, funny how insulting America never really works out. Assad has a been given an out, if he passes it up, he will literally be alone. Make sure you quote it for later when you have to figure out where it all went wrong for you. *slow clap*
also:
Obama - "Don't gas your own people or you'll be sorry"
Syria - "We gassed our own people, what are you gonna do?"
Obama - "Well I can't get support for military action, so just give up your stockpiles."
Syria - "Nope!"
Putin - "Hey guys how about Syria lets Russia oversee the abandonment of the chemical weapons?"
Syria - "Works for me."
Obama To the world - "Look, I fixed it."
I don't know what to tell you if you can't see how that makes us look weak.
A more accurate conversation would go something like this...
USA - Don't aquire or use gas, it violates international law
Syria - We have gas and we're going to use it
USA - Gassing people will prompt a response
Syria - Someone used gas, it wasn't us
UN - how about we investigate?
Syria - ya sure... Just give us a month or so to hide the evidence
USA - We think it was you and if we find proof, we're going to act
UN - Agreed, let's just find the proof first
Russia - If you act without proof, we'll defend our ally
USA - We have proof
UN - We have proof
Russia - We have a compromise
Syria - But we have conditions
UN - We want to try the participants as war criminals
Russia - No
USA - Good enough
Technically speaking the UN called Russia's bluff. Nobody wanted it to go even this far, but assuming the resolution works, the only people who lost anything are the people who got gassed. (and they faced some of the most horrific conditions imaginable) Thats not "Technically" how it went down, thats in simple terms exactly how the timeline goes :< Well, actually, you need to put all the stupid "OBAMA SUPPORTZ DAH TERRORISTZ! randomly throughout..and the "OBAMA R KOWERD! NO WAIT OBAMA R TYRANT! NO WAIT OBAMA R STEWPID!" comments people have made at every point between.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-12 17:09:38
I could spend a page and a half linking sources and quoting statements, I gave the condensed version for effect.
By Enuyasha 2013-09-12 17:11:02
I could spend a page and a half linking sources and quoting statements, I gave the condensed version for effect. Its okay, itll get washed out of here as "Liberal Propaganda" anyway.
and before i get caught not answering a direct attack from amand 1 and a half pages ago:
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »You cant play "Finish the fight you started" and "Let them handle their own ***" at the same time. Either you believe its a civil war that should be handled by the Syrian people or you believe its a conflict that we somehow started and need to follow through on, not both. Also, Russia isnt doing ***to influence us in any way about this: The UN for the most part has been the deciding factor of whether most countries were going to go in or not and even if they did say he used chemical weapons or had stockpiles they may have not gone in anyway.
Quote: Can you imagine an outside superpower toppling Lincoln because he was slaughtering his own outgunned people? It's how it would have looked to them.
Can you imagine the French meddling in the affairs of the British in a time of civil unrest in one of their territories?
No. Not saying anything like that. This war began without our help. We should never be involved especially militarily. That is the first part.
The second part occurs after the President starts flapping his gums and "brandishing threats" at the Syrian government. Once he does that he creates an entirely separate situation with our credibility on the line and his own credibility. His bluff was called and he desperately needed an out. The reason he looks bad no matter what the outcome now is because he looks bad no matter what the outcome now lol. He created this political mess we are in now. It's not me being partisan. The best situation now is that we don't attack, but even that makes him and the United States look pathetic because he opened his mouth and it also elevates Russia.
We didnt start the military tensions, Assad did by using chemical weapons. We were glad to just sit back and let them have their war for slaves government stability. Heres the fun thing about you denying flip floping scripts though: is you do it in the same paragraph as saying you arent/didnt. We dont look bad because we threatened force in a situation that requires us to do so. If anything Russia looks bad because they are running to the aid of their friends. Did they not learn anything from WWI/II? Why offer aid now instead of during the conflict? Cant help your friend out of a jam if they are having internal issues, but you can help them now that the amazing bane to your existence rose up and said "stop that naow or we'll tell mommy"? We have taken the measures that are needed to be taken in these instances which is proper procedure. Notice a problem -> address the problem -> warn -> await congressional approval -> last minute diplomacy -> shell their faces in if they come back hostile. Granted, we dont want anything to do with that lat part as a citizenry or anything after that part, but calling Obama an idiot for threatening and then calling him an idiot for holding off an invasion is directly being fickle and overtly hypocritical. You also want him to get out of Iraq/Afghanistan but would really like to promote an actual declared war in the same region. Make up your mind man.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-09-12 17:29:36
Decries partisanship and name bashing; Uses the word liberal as a pejorative
Why don't you call out ppl for throwing around the word Conservative?
Everyone is making this partisan. When you are strident in your opinion and completely disregard opposing views that is being partisan. Show me an example of anyone in this discussion changing their mind after thoughtfully considering someone else's opinion. It didn't happen.
This last page is the usual disgrace every thread turns into. The same 5 ppl telling each other how awesome they are while doing nothing but hurling insults at those they disagree with. Those that think Obama was wonderful during this crisis of his own making I'm sure find themselves in the very small minority IRL? Oh shi the RL card.
The moment he opened his yap he involved us and there was no good choice to be made once the weapons were used. He created this crisis and deserves to be ridiculed.
Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2013-09-12 17:32:01
Honestly, it's a pretty *** up political scene when Russia is the one negotiating viable, non-war related solutions.
As with regards to giving up chemical weapons, they are frequently acquired in order to dissuade external parties from invading. If having them is a casus belli with a credible threat of being acted upon, retaining them ends being more detrimental than simply giving them up (particularly since they don't require much to re-acquire).
You could argue that the saber-rattling was able to influence the tipping point, but the entire concept of thinking the US would look "weak" by not going to war is frankly stupid.
And to be blunt, the US looks weaker by perpetuating the global stereotype that an American is a corn-fed backwater bible-thumping science-fearing intellectual-hating "'Murica iz Onezes!" kind of person, than by not going to war.
1, Do you think it will happen?
- I do.
2, What do you think we will target?
- This depends on what we can target I suppose, possibilities include, but are not limited to (and do feel free to add other possible targets.):
2a, Infrastructure. (I think this unlikely.)
- 2a/1 Military infrastructure. Airfields, repair depots, radar installations, supply routs, docks, and harbors.
2b, Degrading Assad's war machine by destroying war equptment. (But they have been dispersing heavy war gear for a week or more.)
2c, Decapitation. Targeting essential personnel. (Our intelligence system isn't good at finding and tracking individuals but Mossad is.)
2d, Decimation. Targeting military personnel.
3, What are the odds that Hamas and Al Qaeda backed rebel groups will "accidentally" be hit by "friendly fire"? (And due to our links with the more moderate rebel groups we should have good intel on these.)
4, Will it make a difference? Long term, short term, to the conduct of the war, to the world wide TV audience? (I know it will make a difference to the bottom lines of many companies.)
Thoughts? And please no derailing to "Obamacare", "Obamaphones", or comparing the size of John McCain's and Ron Paul's testicles. (Well, unless you have personally examined both, then please start a new thread on it.)
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