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Questions on the forthcoming Syria strike.
By Enuyasha 2013-09-12 17:35:32
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Decries partisanship and name bashing; Uses the word liberal as a pejorative
Why don't you call out ppl for throwing around the word Conservative?
Everyone is making this partisan. When you are strident in your opinion and completely disregard opposing views that is being partisan. Show me an example of anyone in this discussion changing their mind after thoughtfully considering someone else's opinion. It didn't happen.
This last page is the usual disgrace every thread turns into. The same 5 ppl telling each other how awesome they are while doing nothing but hurling insults at those they disagree with. Those that think Obama was wonderful during this crisis of his own making I'm sure find themselves in the very small minority IRL? Oh shi the RL card.
The moment he opened his yap he involved us and there was no good choice to be made once the weapons were used. He created this crisis and deserves to be ridiculed. No. This last page is you and your other usual kinfolk getting their *** handed to them in letter form. We arent saying Obama handled this amazingly well, however, he handled it in the proper manner that it should have been handled. We didnt just invade then ask congress "hey, is this cool guiz?" And if you think people are ridiculing you instead of reasonably debating your highly ill-formed and ill-informed points then you are quite delusional. You have a strong bias against the president (incoming "But you are Obamas *** boy and need kneepads!!) which will tell you that anything the president does is wrong and even if he does do the better and "more american" thing you just keep coming at us with the whole muslimcommiesocialistnazidictator ***.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-09-12 17:51:17
Go back and read lol. I said nothing like that and at no point was my *** handed to me by anyone. Please show me a post that did that, I may have missed it. (Declaring victory that never happened where have I seen this before?) My points have been valid and have only been countered with opinion. You are the only one that said anything like muslimcommiesocialistnazidictator. It is your typical reduction to an absurd strawman.
Question: If President Obama did not make his public comment about red lines do you believe the last couple weeks of the US possibly striking Syria would have happened? I think you know the answer is no. Thus this was a crisis of Obama's own making.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-09-12 18:04:41
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Decries partisanship and name bashing; Uses the word liberal as a pejorative
Why don't you call out ppl for throwing around the word Conservative? Congrats on missing the point.
As was mentioned before, the "red line" was drawn decades ago. This would have happened regardless of his statements and very likely would have happened with an R in the White House, as well.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-09-12 18:13:24
Wow quoted almost exactly from an Obama speech. Congrats on being predictable.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-09-12 18:29:12
I haven't watched any of his speeches. Does the Chemical Weapons Convention not exist in your reality?
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-09-12 18:36:43
Does Obama's "red lines" speech not exist in your reality? Everyone saw it and knew exactly what he meant. Trying to talk your way out of it makes you look ridiculous. He didn't try to redefine the red line until he really wanted to back out of his empty threat. You know this, come on man. It's OK for you to once say "Yeah he made a mistake" and to not be the most blindly partisan person on these forums, so blind to his own partisanship.
The only fault you see in President Obama is that he works too hard and cares too much about other people. AND HE'S NOT LIBERAL ENOUGH
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By Enuyasha 2013-09-12 18:42:05
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Go back and read lol. I said nothing like that and at no point was my *** handed to me by anyone. Please show me a post that did that, I may have missed it. (Declaring victory that never happened where have I seen this before?) My points have been valid and have only been countered with opinion. You are the only one that said anything like muslimcommiesocialistnazidictator. It is your typical reduction to an absurd strawman.
Question: If President Obama did not make his public comment about red lines do you believe the last couple weeks of the US possibly striking Syria would have happened? I think you know the answer is no. Thus this was a crisis of Obama's own making. If Assad wouldntve used chemical weapons, would we have cared in the first place?
If you need to look at anything where your philosophically inept war mongering post was beaten look no further than my France stepping in Britains mess comment. Then do us all a fovor and tell me what i was talking about. You downtrodden anything that routes your ineptitude with "Liberal banter,rambling, opinions" or otherwise. Its usually you whose employing the tactical strawman, i just reply back with a volley of my own because after that its just not a serious debate anymore.
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Does Obama's "red lines" speech not exist in your reality? Everyone saw it and knew exactly what he meant. Trying to talk your way out of it makes you look ridiculous. He didn't try to redefine the red line until he really wanted to back out of his empty threat. You know this, come on man. It's OK for you to once say "Yeah he made a mistake" and to not be the most blindly partisan person on these forums, so blind to his own partisanship.
The only fault you see in President Obama is that he works too hard and cares too much about other people. AND HE'S NOT LIBERAL ENOUGH
I think the Liberal Death Panel has collectively said even getting involved on the levels we did was a mistake. You're the one praising the great Obama in extremely specific versions.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-09-12 18:50:32
Enu you're rambling now. Relax. You aren't even trying to make a point. I'm pretty sure you are quoting my posts without actually reading them and arguing with me for the sake of arguing.
By Enuyasha 2013-09-12 18:51:59
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Enu you're rambling now. Relax. You aren't even trying to make a point. I'm pretty sure you are quoting my posts without actually reading them and arguing with me for the sake of arguing. oh the irony
I prolly misused the word "Downtrodden"...but meh.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-12 18:53:38
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Why don't you call out ppl for throwing around the word Conservative?
Liberals generally don't throw around "conservative" as an insult, they do use the phrase "neocon" a lot, but that is a term for the ultra-conservative bible bashing "norwegian dutch" "think of the children" "god hates ***" "keep your government hands off my medicade" crowd. And, honestly, there is no amount of ridicule that is too much for people like Michelle Bachman.
There aren't two sides to this coin, bubba.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-09-12 19:00:06
I guess everyone would have just slept through Assad using chemical weapons if Obama didn't make the red line speech. Yup. Nothing to see here folks, nothing about the internet and dead civilians reeling from a sarin gas attack.
Nope, we'd have just shuffled that story in after 'kids react to nyan cat'.
The administration bungled this whole reaction but in delaying military action (to Congress) they allowed enough pressure to build for Putin/Assad to sweat and consider this WMD disarmament plan through the UN. I don't think Obama expected Assad to use WMDs or for the international community to basically react by not giving a ***. This put him in the position of needing to react but at the same time not really wanting to attack. Hence the half-hearted 'punishment' which translates to wasting cruise missiles.
Had we attacked unilaterally, this diplomacy would be off the table as Russia would be rightfully pissed, we'd have done no real damage to the regime or its WMDs and we'd be stuck in the warmongers seat.
By BakingJonez 2013-09-12 22:17:09
Without the 'red line' maybe rebels wouldn't have used chemicals when they started losing? Until you can prove Assad used weapons this is a practical theory. Just as practical as Assad using them because... Well I have no idea why he would use them. Please fill me in.
By Enuyasha 2013-09-12 22:32:34
Without the 'red line' maybe rebels wouldn't have used chemicals when they started losing? Until you can prove Assad used weapons this is a practical theory. Just as practical as Assad using them because... Well I have no idea why he would use them. Please fill me in. I believe(Know) we said that AFTER the chemical weapons appeared. Also, the theory that "The Terrorists" gassed themselves is a bit far fetched in itself. I only partly joke when i suggest the theory myself. My theory is simply that Assad didnt just want to finish them off, he wanted to have a grand display while doing it. IF you are winning, why not crush them in spirit so they dont attempt it again. Well, that kinda backfired.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-12 22:45:12
Without the 'red line' maybe rebels wouldn't have used chemicals when they started losing? Until you can prove Assad used weapons this is a practical theory. Just as practical as Assad using them because... Well I have no idea why he would use them. Please fill me in.
The red line is decades old, Assad used them, they proved it, k bye.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-09-12 22:46:58
Without the 'red line' maybe rebels wouldn't have used chemicals when they started losing? Until you can prove Assad used weapons this is a practical theory. Just as practical as Assad using them because... Well I have no idea why he would use them. Please fill me in.
Actually I would advise just ignoring anyone that suggests the rebels used chemical weapons. As if those disorganized clusterfucks could even gain access to them. Why do you think this conflict is still going, Assad controls all the cities and isn't even having a hard time. The rebels don't talk to each other they don't plan together they just go out and start shooting then promptly retreat or die. They have been losing the entire time and will continue to. The idea that they used chemical weapons is just laughable. Stay in school.
By Enuyasha 2013-09-12 22:50:03
Without the 'red line' maybe rebels wouldn't have used chemicals when they started losing? Until you can prove Assad used weapons this is a practical theory. Just as practical as Assad using them because... Well I have no idea why he would use them. Please fill me in.
Actually I would advise just ignoring anyone that suggests the rebels used chemical weapons. As if those disorganized clusterfucks could even gain access to them. Why do you think this conflict is still going, Assad controls all the cities and isn't even having a hard time. The rebels don't talk to each other they don't plan together they just go out and start shooting then promptly retreat or die. They have been losing the entire time and will continue to. The idea that they used chemical weapons is just laughable. Stay in school. Yea, but its fun to dream the impossible :(
That would also support the grand conspiracy theorum that Obama is a secret Muslim Jihad Sleeper. I dont know how, but logic aint that much of a factor to those people.
By BakingJonez 2013-09-12 22:51:38
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5db_1369946610
Oh but they were caught with them in May?
Lol.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188
UN saying evidence points to rebels using sarin in May.
Where is your proof? I can back up my claims. Can you?
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-12 22:56:04
You cited an article from May as proof of something when the UN and USA investigations showed the opposite with enough certainty to convince the entire world as recently as this week. A+
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By BakingJonez 2013-09-12 22:58:44
Lol. Can't fix uneducated. There were previous attacks. Which the rebels did. I guess they magically lost access to these weapons now that it suits your desires? lol.
Source that says recent attack was by Assad? With evidence. Not theories.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-09-12 23:01:34
Your claims were debunked by the UN. You are not smarter than the UN. But if you want to dispute them, go ahead, just keep it to yourself, don't waste our time. Maybe try your high school teachers.
By BakingJonez 2013-09-12 23:04:57
Did you even read the BBC link? lol.
As always, when debating a liberal, sources and evidence means nothing. What they think and are told is the real proof. lul.
Cite your source.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-09-12 23:08:32
I don't need to click any links disputing facts laid out by the UN and the US government. Keep your insults to yourself and go away.
By BakingJonez 2013-09-12 23:13:52
Liberal is an insult to you? laughable. Yes i know you cant prove me wrong. Sorry, No data to back up your claims.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-09-12 23:14:22
Cool story bro. Stay in school.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-12 23:53:21
Did you even read the BBC link? lol.
As always, when debating a liberal, sources and evidence means nothing. What they think and are told is the real proof. lul.
Cite your source.
Your 6 month old article is all speculation that has been proven false in the mean time. But go on believing that the entire community of intelligence and investigators have been fooled and you alone know the truth. Tinfoil engage!
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-09-13 00:36:14
US intelligence is always spot on and they certainly always above all other things tell the truth. Forgive me for looking at the records of our last several administrations especially including our current administration and having my doubts. I can point out several major instances of them at the very least not being forthright with the truth and in other cases outright lying to the public. It is not crazy to have questions for your government. Before the Presidency of Barack Obama it was actually considered reasonable and patriotic, now people just call you crazy and taunt you into silence. I feel pretty confident though that you all know you are defending something that you know is wrong as you squirm redefining the red line we heard from the President's own lips and the diplomatic embarrassments that followed and all that's left is insulting people.
Edit: Read your last page of posts. They were nothing but taunts. You have given up.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-09-13 00:56:54
Does the Chemical Weapons Convention not exist in your reality? Guess the answer to that is 'No'.
By Enuyasha 2013-09-13 01:16:04
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »US intelligence is always spot on and they certainly always above all other things tell the truth. Forgive me for looking at the records of our last several administrations especially including our current administration and having my doubts. I can point out several major instances of them at the very least not being forthright with the truth and in other cases outright lying to the public. It is not crazy to have questions for your government. Before the Presidency of Barack Obama it was actually considered reasonable and patriotic, now people just call you crazy and taunt you into silence. I feel pretty confident though that you all know you are defending something that you know is wrong as you squirm redefining the red line we heard from the President's own lips and the diplomatic embarrassments that followed and all that's left is insulting people.
Edit: Read your last page of posts. They were nothing but taunts. You have given up. well, before bush. now we have the patriot act and post 9/11 syndrome. but okay.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-09-13 07:18:02
I don't need to click any links disputing facts laid out by the UN and the US government. Keep your insults to yourself and go away. Like the US and UN ever lied to us.
They are always so honest, we should all bow down to them like good little serfs we are!
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-09-13 08:06:27
1, Do you think it will happen?
- I do.
2, What do you think we will target?
- This depends on what we can target I suppose, possibilities include, but are not limited to (and do feel free to add other possible targets.):
2a, Infrastructure. (I think this unlikely.)
- 2a/1 Military infrastructure. Airfields, repair depots, radar installations, supply routs, docks, and harbors.
2b, Degrading Assad's war machine by destroying war equptment. (But they have been dispersing heavy war gear for a week or more.)
2c, Decapitation. Targeting essential personnel. (Our intelligence system isn't good at finding and tracking individuals but Mossad is.)
2d, Decimation. Targeting military personnel.
3, What are the odds that Hamas and Al Qaeda backed rebel groups will "accidentally" be hit by "friendly fire"? (And due to our links with the more moderate rebel groups we should have good intel on these.)
4, Will it make a difference? Long term, short term, to the conduct of the war, to the world wide TV audience? (I know it will make a difference to the bottom lines of many companies.)
Thoughts? And please no derailing to "Obamacare", "Obamaphones", or comparing the size of John McCain's and Ron Paul's testicles. (Well, unless you have personally examined both, then please start a new thread on it.)
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