Obama Cries Over Snowden

Obama cancels trip to russia

doesn't seem like the right move to this slack-jawed yokel, but I'd rather hear everyone's opinions.

thoughts?

That is a highly inflammatory title you heartless ***!

I'm up for suggestions for a change. I couldn't thinl of anything clever, not enough coffee yet.

Does it really matter? Obama is still going to the summit... He's just not going through with the personal meeting... Certainly a better response than some politicians which called for the boycott of the olympics that will be held in Russia...

for sure. that would be even worse.

Snowden is just the straw that broke the camels back here. It's been pretty obvious that Russia/US relations have been strained with Syria still raging on and neither side wants to appear coddling the other.

I'd really love to sit in on a meeting between Obama and Putin though. The awkwardness in the room must make anything they discuss at least four times more dramatic than any normal conversation between politicians. Just imagine what the small talk must be like.

Watch out, you might be called racist soon.

Let's see....

Russia supplying arms to regimes specifically sanctioned by most of the western world... check.

Massive human rights violations... check.

The crushing of political dissent by imprisonment... check.

A massive campaign to stifle, incarcerate and otherwise abuse homosexuals.... check.

Also gives asylum to someone you consider a spy... check

All while blocking international agenda through veto power in the UN.... check


Yeah, I think there are a lot of messages to be sent here and Snowden is just the reason some people focus on the most for some ungodly reason.

Anyone who was paying attention since the patriot act went into effect knew exactly what kind of surveillance the government was capable of legally conducting...

edit: Legal but still not ethical.

it's just funny how he campaigned so hard about "resetting diplomatic relations" & now, 5-6 years later, we're in exactly the same boat as when he took office. the real world will kick your ideals right in the nuts sometimes, eh?

lol

I like how you rail that list off at Russia like the US hasn't done all of the above.

In the world of geopolitics, Russia is one of the few nations the US can't kick sand at when it pleases and it annoys them to no end. The US is annoyed that Snowden got granted asylum and due to the already increased tensions between nations has decided to 'punish' Russia by canceling the meet 'n greet.

Russia won't share its candy with the US so the US is taking its ball and going home. Take that commies!

see I was thinking the same thing, weather snowden was just the icing on the cake or not.

In the context that I don't agree with Obama about prosecuting Snowden, who is undeniably a whistleblower, this is probably the right move. Not doing anything would make our president look weak.

Of course, he's totally on the wrong side of history and the Constitution with this whole situation, so I don't strongly support pulling out of meetings with Putin. Edit: I also think that Obama's bullying in the Snowden incident led to Russia granting him asylum. Many Russians love the idea of a hard man as their leader. Putin had a chance to spit in Obama's eye and he took it. And really, Putin did the US material damage by letting Snowden in. This refusal to meet is more of an empty gesture. If Obama wants to even things up he'll need actual sanctions against Russia, which he won't do.


This is uncalled for here.

I'm fairly certain they didn't do the first one lol... and I'll tke your stance on dems v pubs and say oh well the US has done many of them but just not to the same extent as the Ruskies... lol...

It's not like Russia hasn't doesn't the same to the US before as well... so... umm... ok!

We trained and armed countless groups to fight the Russians for us.

US is constantly condemned by groups around the world for how we treat protesters and dissidents. We also have more prisoners.

We have presidential candidates that denounce and demonize homosexuals. Long term Congress people that openly condemn them and use the limiting of their rights as a political platform.

We run the largest espionage racket in the world, and a us spy was recently caught trying to bribe and turn a Russian military official.

Having a different opinion than us and acting as one of the only counter balances to the almost unchecked US dominance. those ***.

I might have agreed if Snowden only released information about what the government was doing to its own citizens... But he hasn't limited the information flow to just that so... whistleblower off the table...

Fun Fact about U.S. - Russia Relations: We still have our ICBM Arsenals ready to fire on each other at the drop of the proverbial hat. It's a lie that the Cold War is over, the Soviet Union just disintegrated is all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they start trying to disappear him into a black bag before he started leaking additional things?

I think putin had the right idea about snowden

this isn't his direct quote but fairly close:

"it will be a lot like shearing a pig, lots of squeeling, but little wool"

The US hasn't sold arms to regimes sanctioned by the rest of the world? I guess Israel doesn't exist then.

Trying to paint a picture where the US is somehow more or less moral than the Russians is an exercise in futility as both countries have jockeyed for the global superpower title and have unleashed all sorts of unintended consequences in the process.

This dustup comes down to the US being upset that Russia is still backing Assad as that civil war rages on and potentially opens up a situation where a failed state could spawn right in the worst place possible. Russia is looking out for its own interests and both sides have agendas that aren't parallel.

What I mean to say is perhaps throwing stones while living in a glass house is a bad idea, especially considering our recent trouble at defining what torture is. Pesky Geneva conventions and all that.

I've never heard anything about that so I can't say for sure or not... I would think that would be pretty big news if that were the case too... What that has to do with him being a whistleblower I'm not sure...

Ah, I like how in your warped worldview "US = Russia but maybe even worse!"

Except we have the freedom of speech and while some southern states might like to imprison people for being gay and saying that homosexuality is A-OK they'd have to do it illegally because... *gasp* we have laws preventing it~

But, keep on pushing that "The US government is the Great Satan." Bit. While it's cute when you're an angsty teenager, when you're an adult you have to allow your views to be a bit more complicated.

pssst... Also, nowhere in my post did I say that the US was completely blameless. There's plenty of crappy stuff I'd wish would disappear too. To go into it when my point was about the various reasons you could pick from to protest Russia's actions would have been contrary to my point.

You mean the admissions about spying on China, about hacking Chinese resources? Yes, that's not really whistleblowing, I agree. The stuff about us spying at the G8 convention might not technically be whistleblowing but IMO Snowden publicizing it is the morally correct choice.

The rest of it, the really disturbing revelations about the NSA breaking the law by spying on American citizens inside our borders, that's whistleblowing, and Snowden ought to be immune from prosecution on it. We need to hold our government accountable for creating an illegal, unconstitutional surveillance state. Instead Obama is spinning the whole thing like it's legal and right... I'm sad that more of us aren't out in the streets protesting.

He also said that he wanted Snowden out of the country ASAP... He also said allowing him into the country would not cause any interruption in the US Russian relationship... He also said the only way he would let him in was if he agreed to stop releasing classified info from the states..

The un condemneds us regularly for arresting and breaking up protests. the us isn't even near the top on the world freedom index. People who protest get arrested and the people who leak information so we know about war crimes (manning) or constitution raping surveillance programs (snowden) get threatened with death penalty.

Tell me again about your freedom of speech?

So you admit that he provided state secrets that had nothing to do with being a whistleblower?

Fine... make him immune to releases that have to do with actions on US citizens... he can still be prosecuted for the rest of the information he's let out... not to mention... do you think that the chinese or more likely the russian government hasn't had a chance to "examine" the hardware he's brought with him? For all we know they could already have a copy of all the information he brought a long with him... information that he himself said shouldn't be released... though at this point thats all speculation so yeah...

In my 'warped' worldview, I see two nations chasing their bottom lines and the US annoyed that Russia wouldn't play ball with them. Political punishment this time comes in the cancellation of the Obama/Putin tea party. I'm sure that both men are devastated at this. Not really. That's the nature of geopolitics and countries that smile together for a photo op just might not be quite as friendly as the public is led to believe. Who knew?

Russia is ambitious. They may have lost the Cold War but by no means does that mean they intend to roll over and sit under the US' heel.

We have segments in our country who are trying to pass the same draconian laws against homosexuals that Russia has implemented so while it may be great to take the high ground and claim ourselves so superior to those backwards Cold War losers, we're not as far as you'd like to think.

The US government is an empire and empires like to exert their influence upon other nations. Remember that recent act of gunboat diplomacy with Bolivia? They can't do such things with Russia so they will pout, cross their arms and complain about Snowden being granted asylum. It's a complicated dance and for this act, Russia has the upper hand.

You make a good point about Israel (and about the US's moral standing) but there is a huge difference in degree between moral lapses in the US and Russia. In Russia, if you expose state secrets, you may be mysteriously poisoned with a rare radioactive isotope that would take backing from a nuclear power to obtain. In America, if you expose state secrets, you will be black-bagged, enjoy some light torture, and be sentenced to life without parole in a military prison. In Russia, if you criticize the supreme leader, you will be jailed for corruption and be tried in a kangaroo court, or you may be found dead. In America, if you criticize the president, you may be monitored by the NSA, but they already monitor everyone, or the IRS may be sic'ced on you. Russia gives light arms to a corrupt, oppressive dictatorship in Syria. The United States gives wide military intelligence, deep access to technology, and unfettered shipments of armaments/funding to a violent, oppressive apartheid state in Israel. So it's more a difference of degree than the United States being able to claim the moral high ground versus Russia.

Still, this is nothing new. In the 50's and 60's, the United States decried the evil oppression of Communism, while 13 million African-Americans were oppressed by state-sponsored racism, including murder, torture, show trials, and denial of the right to participate in our democratic systems. We've been hypocrites for a very long time.

Russia kicked the US in the balls. We do nothing, makes us look weak and vunerable. Canceling the meeting was probably the best thing for us to do.

Yes.


Absolutely. Snowden has released some information that IMO falls under dirty but legal, like spying against foreign nations. He should receive a short jail sentence or a fine.


Why should we care that China or Russia has examined classified hardware? Go to any top 10 engineering, math, computer science, or physics graduate school in the United States. Look at the racial demographics of students. That cat is long since out of the bag.