What Does Being Veteran Player Means Nowdays?

i don't even know how to reply to this lol . hmm can you said in Spanish im a Cuban noob so idk how to understand English sarcasm sometimes truly. elaborate please

What are skills for you? For me it's not just the ability to swap gears. But a lot of people refer to gears to qualify skills.

The ability to quickly see some intels on mobs, define a strat, knowing what to use and not to use, that's part of what a veteran can do.
But yeah there's google and youtube for this too.

Laughed so hard. I know a guy that plays on a 360, he sometimes changes channel during an event to watch the game. Good thing he's on vent.
Edit: it's worst when he's on whm or pld.

Wise words Once said: a beginer trains untill he makes no mistakes, a veteran trains until he makes a mistake.

dat maen he is died

liek dis if u cri evrytiem

I'm just saying that calling simple cognition a 'skill' seems silly to me. I agree with what most people here are saying.

I've been playing since about 2 months after NA release, I only play about 5 hours every Sunday cuz that's when my static LS of 5 friends get together and play. That's about all my schedule can handle, cuz y'know, I'm a grown-up - insane hours at work, housework, yadda, yadda.

I've never done Einjardar or whatever that is, I think we've done the squat down thing and find the monster VW once or twice, and running up stairs once??? a couple years ago. Haven't made it out to Adoulin yet since we just started our Shinryu fight, but whatever. I don't have a relic (just a Kantonotachi for my SAM) and my BLM has some good gear (nothing great), but I do know exactly how to conduct myself and how to manage hate while proc'ing, and drop cures or erases etc before the tank even has to say anything, and to use all the abilities I have at my disposal so things don't go pear-shaped.

Sure, 1337 gear is gonna give you great numbers but big deal when half the time they're standing off to the side not doing what you need them to do? Occasionally, I'll be in worm party or dom ops party, or working with another party to get some seals, and there's some guy with drool-worthy gear day-dreaming or not using his job-abilities to full advantage, and basically playing as if he was alone. I'm in my quested/AH/AF3+2 gear, working my butt off and getting the job done.

I miss the days tho when we tried to magic burst off a skill chain (or try to get really fancy and get a double magic burst) and getting to chain 5 was a big deal. Getting XP was hard work back then. I'll be telling you guys to get off the lawn next.

As a player since EU release...I feel everything you said....

Though, I think the *** that was 'exp parties' is the one thing I DONT miss from 75.

hay!

Would you rather me alt tab on COR or outparse you on PUP!

Hey I outparsed you on the next fight mister D: and don't you forget that!

Because I died and got R1 instead of Arise!

As for what a 'veteran' is, I'll go largely with the current consensus -- someone with a solid understanding of the mechanics of an event -- and add a clarification: someone familiar with all possible directives for any given role they might assume within the event, drawn from an understanding of all the different ways a role can be played throughout the game combined with specific knowledge of the details of the event, and able to understand what they need to do, and do it well, with only minimal instructions.

For a more concrete example, "You're sac" should be enough to convey all that a player needs to know about the role they're playing, rather than having to spell out:

You'll be sac.
Sac in the short dead end tunnel directly off the room we arrive in.
Make sure your macros do not ever cause you to swap out of your Twilight set.
Sub /thf for the initial pull so that you don't get caught by a spell, or killed in the middle of the alliance.
Have an understanding of where the NMs can pop, and figure out a good path to try to get them all in the first pull.
Bring movement speed gear as well, just in case.
Understand how to properly transfer a pulled mob (eg: turtle or peiste) from a secondary puller to your control.
If you expect to be in this role for multiple runs, learn how to pace your xp loss; don't get up instantly after every death, but don't let the mobs wander far enough away that you'd lose any when you try to reagro.
Bring extra defense/PDT gear so that maybe you can survive an extra hit or two, extending the time between reraises.
Don't worry about holding them for the last couple minutes; use that time to lot any airlixirs.

Each of those also carries with it their own sets of subinstructions (macro handling, mob transfer, mob agro/linking/pathing, defense sets, etc).

At the same time, "You're sac" in old Dynamis carried a different set of sub-instructions than the one for Delve, so obviously understanding the context and details of the event that the instruction applies to matters as well.




I'm sorry; it is. Reading is a skill (if you want a fairly comprehensive view on this, read the book "How to Read a Book"). Thinking is a skill. Planning is a skill. Forecasting future requirements over a variety of events and designing your macro sets to simplify what you need to do to handle any such requirements is a skill.

People are quick to dismiss such things because they think it's trivial, but it's not. It's like saying walking isn't a skill because (most) everyone can do it, and it hardly takes any effort. Of course it took you a year or so to get right, but after 20+ years of repetition it hardly seems to be difficult. Even then, though, there's plenty of people who are better at it than you are (and no, that's not sarcasm).

It largely comes from no easy means of distinguishing between different performance levels for any given mental task (at least, without a lot of research and systematic studies to figure out -how- to measure it). Without an objective measure or direct evidence to look at, as one might have for, say, DPS, 'it must not be a skill'.

This game really has people sac pulling again? Jesus christ lol.

If I don't have X piece of gear and I can't get it due to w/e reason, then I just deal with it and wouldn't bother to find myself a reason. If my BRD has no empy harp because I have 5 babies irl to take care of, I can't sing 3 songs in this game(And trust me, 3 songs does make a pretty big difference for pt performance, especially in SoA DDs need acc). No matter how good I am or how hard I try, I just can't sing 3 songs.

Now that's say if there's a delve fracture NM ally looking for a BRD, so my 2 songs BRD can't get in because they got another 3+ song BRD to sing for them. It's perfectly reasonable to do that. It's a timed event, and you want your ally to have good performance, so there's no reason for a 2 songs BRD to complain about not getting invited over 3+ songs BRD. I wouldn't start drama just because my 2 songs BRD gets no invite.

Maybe I'd feel frustrated that I paid for an MMO and couldn't join any event cuz my BRD's gimp. But I always have the option to stop playing and quit to save money, since I choose rl over FFXI to begin with.

For some groups, it is the most optimal configuration for best performance (where performance here means maximum plasm earned); based on common configurations, lack of someone as sac (and assuming the group isn't up to a level where they can kill the NMs in a net-positive manner) would decrease plasm earned by probably at least 10%. The best pickup group I've had so far reached 9800 plasm with someone as sac. I assume dedicated linkshells can do better without needing to sac, but the role itself, even if not exciting or glamorous, still has merit.

Regardless, the point was to illustrate how a fairly simple role (after all, dying and reraising seems to be about as simple a duty as you can have) still requires a fair bit of underlying knowledge to do properly, but all of that can be encompassed within a single directive to someone who knows what they're doing.

I don't think gear has much to do with being a veteran. Instead, it is being able to function with the gear you currently have. If all you can do is just stand there and swing away, IMO that is a bad sign. Know when to use your /ja. Don't be afraid to switch to Seigan/Third eye if your hp is dropping to buy a little time for the whm. With the def changes, I cringe when seeing a drk riding last resort, or pops souleater when their hp is already low. At the very least, toss out a stun to try and put dread spikes up.

Or other simple things like reposition yourself when a mob is about to die so another one can be targeted right away with you putting your weapon away. I'm sure we've all seen people with great equipment suck, while others with less than optimal gear trying their best to turn in a good performance.

For what it's worth, I always thought the ((veteran)) in EN shouts was equivalent to the JP shout staple "members who need no explanation".

But after seven pages of equivocation and semantics and philosophy-crafting about the objective nature of the "essential veteran", its fairly obvious there's little to no concensus on what the word even means. Makes me wonder why you even waste the letter space in your shout with such a relative term.**

Re: what it means to be a player who "needs no explanation", Motenten said it beautifully and I wish I could + him more.

**derail about the communicative meta-game

It's just funny to me to see the word 'skill' used in the context of this discussion as if it's some undefinable and mysterious trait. I don't consider skill in an MMO to be some lengthy list of discrete criteria. It's just general knowledge, foresight, and awareness. (There's some reflex involved as well, but FFXI is a pretty slow-*** game so you can get away with being a bit slow in that regard.)

VET = someone that know how to play all jobs and master all things !

:P

just saying

also most skills cap be nice add

well , night night guys and GL discussing this XD

<3 u all.

Yours Truely,
Kuro~

Never liked the word "veteran" in shout, it can mean so many things and be very confusing.

I personally think that it's just someone who knows the fight, but I am fairly sure that 90% of those who use it in their shout, talk about well equipped players. I don't agree to it and I don't know how many times I saw leet gear players being completly clueless about the job and the fight.

Holy hell, how do you find any time to play with 5 kids?! I'm constantly chasing my one (who decided to make mashed potatoes out of fries today...on a carpet...)!

BTW, I like seeing a thread like this; where there's no flaming and junk. Nicely played.

The first prerequisite for being a veteran is remembering when 3k exp a hour was amazing.

the next step is then understanding how to play your job and know the ins and outs of different events and such XD lol.

3k an hour ¬¬ lord man you had some fail parties. At least I remember 6~8k being very very good. Then smn burns took off and we got 35~40k/hour...and that was beyond godly. My first time was like 'hey, so I can really really recap my buffer in an hour from going drk/thf to dynamis? wowwwwww'.

Veteran player is merely the ability to adapt to a situation and not fail.

Length of playtime has nothing to do with it. Having the best gear doesn't make you good. Look at Breezyy.

just the fact that you have kids and find the time to play makes it amazing. i have 3 nephews, 2 girls 1 boy i take care twice per week when that happens all i can do is fish here and there i take my hat off to you. And my point wasnt about not having certain piece of x-gear go get it cuse you must have it, but about trying to make the best with what you have while working towards what you want no matter how long it takes. And if all else fails well making gil never does i have learn that much if i cant make it ill go buy it if i can or simply play and have fun without it

jesus cant believe someone else mention hims lol. and by no means do i mean this as offense im not that kind of person, but being rude has no excuse

To me a veteran player means someone that has had long experience or practice at playing the game. Of course "long experience or practice" can mean different things. Like, I've been playing the game since (x amount of time) as opposed to, "I just started (x amount of short time).

You can say, "I'm a veteran WHM. That's all I play."

To me a true veteran is someone who knows ALL the jobs and game mechanics. By knowing I mean actually played the jobs, got out there and used them. (Let's not get into the 'you don't know your job if you abyssea burned it thing, lol) Not just read the job guide on the forums and then declared themselves savants.

I've never considered myself a veteran even though I've played since 2005

I'm just gonna throw my 2 cents in here and be on my way. First, to dismiss some of the comments that were written above: to be a veteran does not mean you have every job leveled to 99. It does not mean you've completed every mission and have participated in every piece of content that SE has thrown your way. Just because 'I' don't want to level a job to 99 because 'I' have no interest in playing it or that 'I' have no interest in doing neo-omega because the gear doesn't benefit 'me' does not exclude someone from ever achieving a veteran status.

To put it bluntly, you can be a veteran at the jobs you play and/or you can be a veteran at the events you lead/do. It's simple. You must understand the core of the game. Bard rotations, job selection, sc/mb timing and usage, debuff healing, mp conserving, ja timing and usage, buffs to give, debuffs to cast (or not cast; Moth's exuviations for example), nuking weaknesses, hate mechanics, etc... As a veteran, it's your job to relay this information to the abyssea-born and the not-so-battle-hardened. Just because you might not personally play the role of a tank/healer/dd does not exempt you from understanding these mechanics if you desire to be considered a veteran. You must know the ins and outs of every event you participate in and every job that participates in the events with you. Simply put, a veteran is a leader but also a deliverer. They must control a situation while still maintaining and performing their current role/job.

I've been playing since PS2 release, and there was a time when I would have considered myself a RDM Salvage veteran. I used to run twice a night 3 times a week, week in and week out. The bosses, the paths, the goals, the timing, it all became automatic. Haste rotations, refresh rotations...if you didn't have it on you, it must have meant I was dead. Seeing a salvage boss ready discharge, for example, you bet your *** I was already casting paralyna on the primary tank before the move even got off. Being a veteran is about knowing, and knowing how to react on a second's notice. How to change up a game plan on the run while not having to call a wipe and start over.

Anymore, my RDM days are over (I let it die at 90 with the lack of support SE gave to them), and with that goes the years and years of pride, honor and determination that I brought with it. I wouldn't consider myself a veteran at anything anymore. The jobs I play, I know how to play them and I know how to gear them (macros, spellcast, etc...). The events I lead, I have a general understanding of and read up on pages and pages of before I attempt them. There used to be a time when I didn't need to google things for the primary events that I ran; the tp moves, the spells and the behaviors of mobs were already implanted in my head.

Today, you see Bards and Cors letting buffs run out for minutes on end, WHMs letting tanks/melees sit in red health for another handful of attack rounds, PLDs who don't understand that flash is a substantial hate management tool, BLMS not knowing how to Magic Burst, Melees not knowing how to SC, Melees going balls out and pulling hate from their tanks because it's 'cool' only to die seconds later and cause vital DPS to go to waste (outside of the zergfest era).

You know, at least when I play a job, I'm going to be that person that no one has to say to their buddy in /tell, "this guy sucks, he can't even <insert generic job's role>". If you're going to level a job to get invites to events that you couldn't otherwise get invited to, atleast have the common decency to know a thing or two about that job you will be playing as and your primary function inside of your party/alliance. Does it make you a veteran? Absolutely not. Does it make you a step closer to being one? You bet your *** it does.

Not true at all, fail has nothing to do with disifering a noob from a veteran. Thats like saying only a idiot makes mistakes. Everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes. Your logic to veteran is pretty poor, leading the game to have no veterans at all in which case. Everyone learns by failing and making mistakes, thats how everything works ingame or in RL.

I understand your logic but it could be worded differently

Veterans learn from there mistakes to not make them, wile others continue to repeat the same mistakes.