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Matsui: "Don't throw away your R/M/E weapons yet"
 Bismarck.KelhorAdministrator
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By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-05-06 12:53:29
no one gets Relic for the WS
Out of the 14 relic WS, you have five that could be useful on other weapons:
Mercy Stroke
Coronach
Namas Arrow
Catastrophe
Tachi: Kaiten
That's 5/14, and most of those are sort of dubious, or of limited value. Nothing you'd make a 99 Relic for except MAYBE Catastrophe, just because Catastrophe with a 260+ DMG Scythe would make a lot of stuff soloable, and the aftermath is nice.
[edit: and as Tikal points out below, even these aren't exciting without the 40% boost they get at 99.]
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-05-06 12:54:22
RANDGRITH
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-05-06 12:54:37
It's a waiting game, yes. SE has been silent supposedly because of Golden Week in Japan, but I have a feeling that, if they haven't seen the subscription drop yet, when they do, they'll be frantic.
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-05-06 12:55:17
Matsui will probably die soon anyway, either from stress or suicide...wonder who the next director will be!
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Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-05-06 12:55:36
no one gets Relic for the WS
Out of the 14 relic WS, you have five that could be useful on other weapons:
Mercy Stroke
Coronach
Namas Arrow
Catastrophe
Tachi: Kaiten
That's 5/14, and most of those are sort of dubious, or of limited value. Nothing you'd make a 99 Relic for except MAYBE Catastrophe, just because Catastrophe with a 260+ DMG Scythe would make a lot of stuff soloable, and the aftermath is nice. Worth mentioning, these are only viable with the +40% Mod they added to the WS. If those additives aren't there, the WSs are basically useless.
 Lakshmi.ByrthVIP
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-06 12:57:29
The lack of Damage +40% drops Mercy Stroke and Kaiten out of pretty much every situation, but Catastrophe/Namas/Coronach would still have their uses even if they did kind of crappy damage.
Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2013-05-06 12:57:59
Thanks, think I got it. And I totally agree, so if he makes the weapons current then they should still be worth while regardless of the ws bs no?
Basically, the new weapons have a damage rating high enough that relics can't compete, let alone stand above. Relics, Mythics, and Empyrians need to be scaled up. To be just above these weapons, or the new weapons need to be scaled down and R/M/E scaled up to be just above those weapons.
Fenrir.Camiie
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2013-05-06 12:58:52
Im pretty sure I never said that it had to be 18 or Ls drama to get somethin did I?
I'm pretty sure you told me I should play WoW and GTFO of FFXI because I don't want to go back to the old mega-LS style of endgame. 18-man events, DKP, and LS drama is what those days were like. So, to answer your question, yes you did say that.
Quote: Maybe SE should just give you crazy buffs in Delve like abysssea so we can have some incrediably hard content that can be solo'd and everyone will be happy with smiles on their faces and we can all just have everything because thats so fun.
You know there are party sizes between 1 and 18 don't you? You do realize there are levels of difficulty between "I'm too young to die" and "Nightmare!" right? Whatever. Come back when you can make an argument without putting up a Straw Man. I will give you a bit of credit in that you didn't accuse me of wanting Delve weapons sent directly to my Delivery Box though. Good job on that.
Bahamut.Dionikes
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By Bahamut.Dionikes 2013-05-06 12:59:07
I can see why people are upset, I have 4 relics mmyself and a 99 harp on mule, and although my path to obtaining enough gil for those, in addition to recently buying all my currency/murrows for excalabur was easier than most, i suppose I'll be a tad butthurt if they are worthless. (made close to 1.2 billion gil mercing abbysea when it first hit) can understand why the people who farmed in dynamis and other places would be mad. Although I did grind the ***out of af+2,emps for almost 6 months straight lol.
Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2013-05-06 13:03:04
no one gets Relic for the WS
Out of the 14 relic WS, you have five that could be useful on other weapons:
Mercy Stroke
Coronach
Namas Arrow
Catastrophe
Tachi: Kaiten
That's 5/14, and most of those are sort of dubious, or of limited value. Nothing you'd make a 99 Relic for except MAYBE Catastrophe, just because Catastrophe with a 260+ DMG Scythe would make a lot of stuff soloable, and the aftermath is nice.
[edit: and as Tikal points out below, even these aren't exciting without the 40% boost they get at 99.]
Not 100% sure about Coronach and Namas, but I thought Mercy Stroke was a SA/TA only WS? Catastrophe is a utility WS used to regain a bit of HP with a bit of haste slapped on and from watching a friend do Amano trials, Tachi: Kaiten seems very inaccurate. I don't think we're getting an equal trade off.
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-05-06 13:10:26
Mercy is SA/TA only, yes. A good chunk of dagger WSs are though. It's still a relevant WS for Mandau users, surpassing Mandalic Stab for SATA-exclusive WSs, and stronger than Exenterator as long as its paired with Sneak Attack.
By tallica33 2013-05-06 13:11:17
I was kinda hoping they'd say something today. By hoping, I mean wishing (knowing they wouldn't...).
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-05-06 13:12:19
Today they were busy reading the rage reports from the community reps and crying about it. Tomorrow probably they'll say something.
 Asura.Ina
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By Asura.Ina 2013-05-06 13:12:26
They are probably being a little more careful now and, you know, making sure the WS can't already be unlocked with out the weapon (see mythics).
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Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-05-06 13:24:42
no one gets Relic for the WS
Out of the 14 relic WS, you have five that could be useful on other weapons:
Mercy Stroke
Coronach
Namas Arrow
Catastrophe
Tachi: Kaiten
That's 5/14, and most of those are sort of dubious, or of limited value. Nothing you'd make a 99 Relic for except MAYBE Catastrophe, just because Catastrophe with a 260+ DMG Scythe would make a lot of stuff soloable, and the aftermath is nice.
[edit: and as Tikal points out below, even these aren't exciting without the 40% boost they get at 99.]
Allow the players to use the WS(+dmg boost), aftermath, JA boost or special ability from R/E/M, and afterglow(if you have it) on any weapon of that class, plus the ability to change the weapon model to R/E/M. Rage quit problem solved :)
They are probably being a little more careful now and, you know, making sure the WS can't already be unlocked with out the weapon (see mythics).
For mythics SE can just transfer the JA augment or something.
Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2013-05-06 13:26:27
Mercy is SA/TA only, yes. A good chunk of dagger WSs are though. It's still a relevant WS for Mandau users, surpassing Mandalic Stab for SATA-exclusive WSs, and stronger than Exenterator as long as its paired with Sneak Attack.
Yep, only thing I use Mandalic Stab for. It seems to surprise a few other THFs that weren't around for the first voke-SATA days.
Today they were busy reading the rage reports from the community reps and crying about it. Tomorrow probably they'll say something.
Hope so.
Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2013-05-06 13:28:18
no one gets Relic for the WS
Out of the 14 relic WS, you have five that could be useful on other weapons:
Mercy Stroke
Coronach
Namas Arrow
Catastrophe
Tachi: Kaiten
That's 5/14, and most of those are sort of dubious, or of limited value. Nothing you'd make a 99 Relic for except MAYBE Catastrophe, just because Catastrophe with a 260+ DMG Scythe would make a lot of stuff soloable, and the aftermath is nice.
[edit: and as Tikal points out below, even these aren't exciting without the 40% boost they get at 99.]
Allow the players to use the WS(+dmg boost), aftermath, JA boost or special ability from R/E/M, and afterglow(if you have it) on any weapon of that class, plus the ability to change the weapon model to R/E/M. Rage quit problem solved :)
They are probably being a little more careful now and, you know, making sure the WS can't already be unlocked with out the weapon (see mythics).
For mythics SE can just transfer the JA augment or something.
I keep coming back to how easy it'd be and how much sense it'd make to just let us boost the weapons.
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By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2013-05-06 13:32:49
no one gets Relic for the WS
Out of the 14 relic WS, you have five that could be useful on other weapons:
Mercy Stroke
Coronach
Namas Arrow
Catastrophe
Tachi: Kaiten
That's 5/14, and most of those are sort of dubious, or of limited value. Nothing you'd make a 99 Relic for except MAYBE Catastrophe, just because Catastrophe with a 260+ DMG Scythe would make a lot of stuff soloable, and the aftermath is nice.
[edit: and as Tikal points out below, even these aren't exciting without the 40% boost they get at 99.]
Allow the players to use the WS(+dmg boost), aftermath, JA boost or special ability from R/E/M, and afterglow(if you have it) on any weapon of that class, plus the ability to change the weapon model to R/E/M. Rage quit problem solved :)
They are probably being a little more careful now and, you know, making sure the WS can't already be unlocked with out the weapon (see mythics).
For mythics SE can just transfer the JA augment or something.
Would raganork "criticail hits V carry over?
If we did this for Empy weapons then:
Myrkr and CDC would be useful as they are utility weapons.
Not sure for other empy's or mythrics.
Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2013-05-06 13:40:05
no one gets Relic for the WS
Out of the 14 relic WS, you have five that could be useful on other weapons:
Mercy Stroke
Coronach
Namas Arrow
Catastrophe
Tachi: Kaiten
That's 5/14, and most of those are sort of dubious, or of limited value. Nothing you'd make a 99 Relic for except MAYBE Catastrophe, just because Catastrophe with a 260+ DMG Scythe would make a lot of stuff soloable, and the aftermath is nice.
[edit: and as Tikal points out below, even these aren't exciting without the 40% boost they get at 99.]
Coronach and Namas arrow are two of the most broken weapon skills in the game, so I wouldn't say they're of limited value. People most certainly upgrade annihilator/yoichi just for the weapon skill, more so than catastrophe.
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-05-06 13:41:48
The whole "some people get Relics by botting, therefore obtaining a Relic isn't a worthwhile achievement" argument has always been logically painful. I personally made most of my RMEs while in Germany. I don't speak much German and the lab was fairly inhospitable for the first few months, so I had plenty of time to brainlessly farm and not much else to do at night.
Here is how I got my RMEs (and other major expenditures):
Terpsichore (~300mil) - Started with 80mil acquired from years of playing. After that, farmed Dynamis, sold currency for gil, bought Alexandrite for 8-10k (just after the Dynamis changes and before Salvage v2).
Twashtar (~240mil) - Farmed Dynamis, sold currency for gil, bought HMPs and Riftdross right when the trials were released, which was just after I finished farming 30,000 Alexandrite for Terpsichore. I think I started out paying 180k per plate and it ended around 130k. I got a lot of 'dross for around 250-300k.
Alchemy 110 (~300mil) - Farmed Dynamis/Salvage v1, sold currency for gil, bought Ethereal Squamas. This is immediately after the cap increase, which was in early 2012. I made about 100mil back by selling the Tier 0 HQs that I made on the way to 110. It has taken me a really long time to break even on this expenditure, but I think I'm finally there.
Ukonvasara (~180mil) - Bought with gil that I couldn't spend on Squamas that weren't entering the market. Obtained the gil by farming Dynamis/Salvage v1. Plates were around 100k each when I finished, and Riftdross was ~400k each.
Ragnarok (~100mil) - Server transferred some NQ Alchemy Hexed to many different servers, sold them, and hopped them back. Ended up with about 100mil, which I spent on Ragnarok. Temporarily bought the marrows, but then farmed 5 with the LS and resold them for about the same price. I was leading a Legion shell at the time and wanted to try MS Resolution against wave 2 stuff in Mul. Turns out I'm still a Taru even when I put Ragnarok on, so it still wasn't really viable for me to DD in a one-shotty shituation.
Khepri Kecks (~175mil) - Started building gil for these after Salvage v2 came out by hoarding my Alexandrite gil. Finally managed to buy a pair about two weeks ago.
Current extra gil (~200mil) - Almost exclusively obtained by selling currency and Hexed -1s. Considering putting it into G-horn/Daurd 99s, because they look like they'll retain their value and I want some way to get off the gear treadmill. I don't have time to run on it anymore.
I dualboxed Dynamis and Salvage and use Send to control my mule without Alt-Tabbing rather than a bot of any kind, so there are my accomplishments and exactly how I did them. In addition to Salvage/Dynamis, I did 3-man BCNMs whenever my previous stuff sold and if I could find someone else that was interested. I also blinkered about 10 million gil worth of Cruor that I didn't need while that was still possible, but I maxed something like 8 Atmacites and "farmed Cruor" only 2~3 times (just so I could buy the next tier of Voidwatch KIs) so it was substantially less than it could have been. Of the ~1.5 billion gil that I acquired in the last year and a half, 1 billion of it is sunk into RMEs or gear that was invalidated by the last patch, and I'd argue that none of it really qualified as ill-gotten gains.
So yeah, just because some people fishbot or blinker bot doesn't mean that it is impossible to do it without that, and it doesn't make it not worth doing. You get the same weapon whether you bot it or farm it, and it was a desirable weapon either way. Plus, if you're stuck in the eternal dreariness of the German winter, what else is there to do?
If you had fishbotted haks every night since the first level cap increase 3 years ago you still would not have made a fraction of the money as you have.
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-05-06 13:44:36
no one gets Relic for the WS
Out of the 14 relic WS, you have five that could be useful on other weapons:
Mercy Stroke
Coronach
Namas Arrow
Catastrophe
Tachi: Kaiten
That's 5/14, and most of those are sort of dubious, or of limited value. Nothing you'd make a 99 Relic for except MAYBE Catastrophe, just because Catastrophe with a 260+ DMG Scythe would make a lot of stuff soloable, and the aftermath is nice.
[edit: and as Tikal points out below, even these aren't exciting without the 40% boost they get at 99.]
Allow the players to use the WS(+dmg boost), aftermath, JA boost or special ability from R/E/M, and afterglow(if you have it) on any weapon of that class, plus the ability to change the weapon model to R/E/M. Rage quit problem solved :)
They are probably being a little more careful now and, you know, making sure the WS can't already be unlocked with out the weapon (see mythics).
For mythics SE can just transfer the JA augment or something.
I keep coming back to how easy it'd be and how much sense it'd make to just let us boost the weapons.
Boost the weapons then another group of players doesn't want to use same weapon for 5 years rage quit lol.
Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-06 13:52:57
Eh.... I actually had to play the game for 3 hours a night doing my Dynamis/Salvage rotation. Fishbotters could *** around for ~22 hours and then find/make bait and run to glacier. Also, fishbotters can run multiple mules at the same time and I had access to two accounts. With two characters pulling in 70k/hr in Haks for 18 hours a day for three years, I would have made 2.8 billion gil. If you assume that I'd play normally on my main account and just leave a mule there 24/7, I'd have made about 1.8bil (a little more than what I made) and it would have been substantially less effort.
I got an Ebisu's myself a few weeks ago and have been skilling up fishing, but never with the goal of going to Glacier. I just want 110 fishing in case it's useful some day. Getting the rod wasn't hard, GP were the worst part, etc. I knew about Haks and could have fishbotted them, but chose to work for my gil by doing Dynamis and stuff instead because I found it more fun.
Siren.Barber
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By Siren.Barber 2013-05-06 13:53:54
The whole "some people get Relics by botting, therefore obtaining a Relic isn't a worthwhile achievement" argument has always been logically painful.?
If I lumped all relic holders in with bitters that is my mistake. There are of course plenty of legit relics out the. But as someone who has farmed 2 billion gil in dynamic and salvage surely you would agree its a complete grind and takes no skill. That's why I think this is a step in the right direction. At least right now the mega bosses are challenging and on an incredible time constraint. I don't want to get back on the gear treadmill either. But it beats a game so stagnant that people pay 80for million for an extra 1%Topeka double attack
Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-06 14:01:43
Well, mostly what it took for me was being ahead of the crowd. I started farming seriously before most people knew the proc system and was selling coins for 10k and buying Alex for 8k. Then when people got comfortable with the idea of farming Dynamis and started to flood zones, I moved to CoP before most people knew the proc system there. I made bgwiki pages as the community figured things out, so it isn't like I had an advantage that I wasn't offering to everyone else, but it takes some people a lot of time to figure out how to use the new system to their advantage.
Also, I wouldn't say the process was entirely skill-less. Not difficult by a long shot, but there is a wide gap between the worst and the best Dynamis farmer and it is mostly from skill/strategy/gear. Dynamis runs for me became self-competition for top-scores in terms of currency/forgotten items. SSR runs became speed challenges. I am entirely confident that people could spend an equal amount of time as me with the same resources and end up with much less loot, so the difference comes from somewhere.
[+]
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-05-06 14:05:22
Yeah, but that assumes you're fishing to the limit (walk upon the razor's edge, etc.) every day, which is pretty obnoxious and unreliable for haks even you assumed limitless sack/satchel/inventory. I don't have a 2box mule, but if I did the main purpose of using it to fish would be that I could be assured of more than 60-70 free inventory slots on any given day at minimal inconvenience to myself.
Crafting all those minnows is also a pain in the ***, but if you're botting fishing you're definitely botting the crafting too, of course. You just can't rely on the AH because you are going for the cap on two characters every day there's no way you're going to get enough mats without investing your own labor.
Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-06 14:12:24
Well, it is actually assuming that you catch 7 Haks per hour (a little less), which works out to 168 Haks per day. So that's not the limit. Even if you only got 6 Haks per hour, my annual income would still be beaten by a single 24/7 fishbot.
Towards the beginning of when I was farming there was no need to craft minnows because most people hadn't caught on to Haks yet and you could still get them from NPCs at reasonable prices in bulk. If I did need to make Minnows, though, I am 110 Alchemy with level 70 subs.
Hakuryus are not a problem in themselves (70k/hr for a real player would be total ***), but the problem with them is that Fishing can easily be automated. SE should have solved this during their "fishing minigame" update, but instead they just made it more annoying for real fishers to fish while not affecting botters at all. This is the problem they need to fix, rather than Hakuryu specifically.
Blinkers was a really obvious problem that went unpatched for more than a year longer than it should have. I think that it went unpatched at first because it was a source of somewhat gentle inflation that was sort of equally-available for exploitation by any level/class of player. It's not that bad of an idea to have an easy gil source that's available for noobs, but you need to counter it with a gil sink somewhere else in the system, which just didn't exist. Again, the automation thing was also quite problematic.
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-05-06 14:17:55
It's more an issue of the sheer amount of time it would take to craft 200 minnows a day between a main and a mule and the free inventory on both to hold them with enough room to spare to make sure you don't get full bags from a lucky streak of non-breaks. The reason why you wouldn't generally cap haks even if you could pull up 200 in 8 hours' sleep is that you'd either fill your bags or run out of minnows at 3 AM.
With monitoring every few hours and a constant refresh of minnows, either crafted or via dbox, yeah, you can do it, but at that point you're investing so much time into maintenance that you might as well just farm for a much higher return doing literally anything that would produce value for another player. I am half-convinced that if you wanted to check up on your guy every couple of hours and were hell-bent on fishing, it would be easier to go after Crocodilos, which have a much easier bait requirement and a higher bite rate, and then just take maybe 2 or 3-dozen minnows out to Beaucedine while you sleep.
[+]
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By Lakshmi.Tadakichi 2013-05-06 14:23:03
Yeah, if they're trying to "encourage" people to get back into the old endgame mega-LS scene then they are barking up the wrong tree. It's rather delusional and arrogant of them. Maybe they should try designing the game for the player base instead of hoping the player base will re-design itself for the game.
Many of these never really went away. I know old ones on Lakshmi are around in some form or another. i'm in EU one been around for years. Every day I see at least 2 new thread on AH forums recruiting for shells lol, some with /seacom or some with point system or drop track. Lot of ppl didn't drop their pearl when Abby came out cuz at lv cap 80 ppl did it in alliances. Then atma made it easier to lowman, but by time that happened VW came along and boom, you had 18-person content again. Never really a time in game where they didn't have SOME event for mega-LS.
Even if you look now on forum main page there are like 4 LS's recruiting who posted in last 2 hr...I like meeeting new ppl through LS and Delve group ^^
 Cerberus.Detzu
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By Cerberus.Detzu 2013-05-06 15:18:50
no one gets Relic for the WS
Out of the 14 relic WS, you have five that could be useful on other weapons:
Mercy Stroke
Coronach
Namas Arrow
Catastrophe
Tachi: Kaiten
That's 5/14, and most of those are sort of dubious, or of limited value. Nothing you'd make a 99 Relic for except MAYBE Catastrophe, just because Catastrophe with a 260+ DMG Scythe would make a lot of stuff soloable, and the aftermath is nice.
[edit: and as Tikal points out below, even these aren't exciting without the 40% boost they get at 99.]
Let's say you can carry the 40% dmg on cata + AM, using cata with a 260 dmg scythe would lead to the destruction of balance. If you can't carry the 40% dmg bonus or AM or both, it's pretty pointless to have it unless you're fighting fodders. There's no in-between world, Matsui's idea wasn't good or properly thought.
[+]
Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2013-05-06 15:29:54
no one gets Relic for the WS
Out of the 14 relic WS, you have five that could be useful on other weapons:
Mercy Stroke
Coronach
Namas Arrow
Catastrophe
Tachi: Kaiten
That's 5/14, and most of those are sort of dubious, or of limited value. Nothing you'd make a 99 Relic for except MAYBE Catastrophe, just because Catastrophe with a 260+ DMG Scythe would make a lot of stuff soloable, and the aftermath is nice.
[edit: and as Tikal points out below, even these aren't exciting without the 40% boost they get at 99.]
Let's say you can carry the 40% dmg on cata + AM, using cata with a 260 dmg scythe would lead to the destruction of balance. If you can't carry the 40% dmg bonus or AM or both, it's pretty pointless to have it unless you're fighting fodders. There's no in-between world, Matsui's idea wasn't good or properly thought.
Not to be a smartass, but balance was destroyed a week ago. It was destroyed, slammed to the ground, desecrated anally, stabbed with a 108 dmg dagger, desecrated again, and buried face-down.
EDIT: Needed more detail.
[+]
| 04-26-2013 12:52 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team |  |
| | I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.
What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.
In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.
For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.
Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event. | |
| 05-09-2013 10:15 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator |  |
| | Matsui: Follow up on Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin Weapons
Hello, it's Matsui. Thank you for all of your opinions about Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (hereafter, RMEC). They were very helpful.
After reading all of the varied opinions, we have decided that rather than unlocking the weapon skills specific to each weapon, a reworking of RME weapons would be more effective (for coin weapons, more information will be provided later, but we plan to allow these to unlock the dedicated weapon skills).
I have written and reorganized this in various ways and it has become quite lengthy with examples. After you have gotten a chance to look over it, please let us know if you have any further opinions.
Content Level
We received many questions about the parameters of Adoulin equipment. Because this is an important part in order to be able to understand the reworking of RME so you can provide your opinion, please allow me to repeat the explanation for content level and growth in Seekers of Adoulin.
In Adoulin, the basic design is a repeated play cycle where players become stronger and stronger as they align themselves with equipment obtained from challenging content which, in turn, allows them to take on even more challenging content.
By aligning themselves with this equipment, players will continue to grow even without leveling up.
The content level of Adoulin content is set as follows:
[[Info below is much better formatted in a table on the original post.]]
20: Delve (Boss Monsters) (Current)
17: Wildskeeper Reive (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
14: Delve NMs (Tier 2) (Current)
13: Skirmish (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
11: Delve NMs (Tier 1) (Current)
6-9: Colonization / Lair Reives (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
7: Wildskeeper Reive (Current)
6: Skirmish (Current)
1-5: Colonization/Lair Reives (Current)
The strength of the equipment that can be obtained, rather than the level of the equipment, will be dependent on the content level. The equipment to be added later in Adoulin will of course be equippable at level 99, but the level of the equipment parameters would be even higher to match the content level (for example, similar to what level 110 or 120 equipment might look like).
While the strength of the monsters which appear is determined to match the content level, in order to fill out the hierarchy between content to some extent, we have designed monsters of variable strength. The parameters of the equipment that can be obtained in Adoulin is set by determining the parameters that would be necessary to compete with those monsters.
The level of current and planned content is set to minimize the gaps between content level, but we may also insert additional intermediate content if the jump between levels remains too high.
In some cases, content variations will cause content to cover multiple levels. We also plan to enhance the amount of content available horizontally at individual levels, rather than just vertically over the content level range.
The content in the next version update will be added with this in mind.
Referencing the "next version update" items above, it will be possible to add new colonization and lair reive equipment purchasable for Bayld in the level 6~9 range (which currently includes Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives). In addition, we will be inserting new content at levels 13 and 17.
Also, one part of smoothing out the content level will be adjusted in a maintenance to be carried out of the end of this week: we will be adding a fixed probability to obtain the items needed to enter Skirmishes (Simulacrum Segments) from Lair and Colonization Reives. (This adjustment is unrelated to the current rules associated with coalition assignments, gathering, and Soul Pyres.)
By making this adjustment, the assumed progression will be:
1. First, take on lair and colonization reives.
2. As a result of those battles, obtain Simulacrum Segments.
3. Combine the segments in order to enter Skirmishes.
Reworking RMEC
Please excuse my lengthy explanation above. I'll now return to the topic at hand.
First off, since it is necessary for the development staff to further consider the implementation, we cannot guarantee the timeframe as far as whether it will be included in the next version update.
Regarding the types of parameters that would be reworked, special abilities such as Aftermath and Afterglow will remain, while parameters such as the DMG rating, attack, and accuracy will be set to match the content level post-rework.
Since the parameters will be reworked to become aligned with high content difficulty, we do not intend to rework it in small intervals such as with the previous method of Trial of the Magians.
Prior to now, RME were considered the strongest weapons, so I think there will need to be some change to this viewpoint. For those who have RME, you may not require the other weapons, but there now be a choice among other comparable weapons.
If you are worried about how these weapons will be able to be used, for example, against Delve boss monsters, here are some parameters which we are looking at for the reworking. This is just for RME one-handed swords as an example:
Excalibur
DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
to
DMG:121 Delay:233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
Burtgang
DMG:73 Delay:264 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
to
DMG:131 Delay:264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Almace
DMG:70 Delay:224 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
to
DMG:114 Delay:224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Since coin weapons were originally just intended to be used for Empyrean weapon skills, based on the concept, I believe that instead of reworking them, they can be used to open the dedicated weapon skills (with certain level and job restrictions). We are currently considering the adjustment procedures necessary for this..
In conclusion
I've gone on for a while, so considering the reworking for level 99 Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons as well as the unlocking of dedicated weapon skills via Coin weapons, please let us know your opinions. We will read through your thoughts one by one to make sure we understand your point of view.
Note that this is a large departure from the original plan. Considering the feasibility of scheduling this change, the development may take some time.
I apologize for keeping you waiting on my response.
Thanks in advance!
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 05-09-2013 2:19 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons
Matsui here.
Thank you all so much for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes weapons. It has helped out tremendously.
After reading over all of your feedback, instead of continuing the growth of these weapons by unlocking the weapon skills that are tied to each of the weapons, I feel it would be better to perform a revamp on RME weapons. (Regarding Walk of Echoes weapons, I will talk about this below, but they will be involved with unlocking the specialized weapon skills.)
I've been reworking a lot, and writing it all up, but it seems the post turned out rather lengthy, so once you have been able to read through it all and digest it we'd love to hear your feedback.
Content Level
We've received a lot of questions about the stats on Adoulin equipment, and I'd like to once again explain about growth and content levels in Seekers of Adoulin as this is a critical aspect in order to receive feedback on the revamps for RME weapons.
The content in Adoulin has been designed with a repeating play-cycle where you challenge content that you are able to at that moment in time, gather equipment, become stronger, and then take on higher tier content which will allow you to gather even stronger equipment.
It's through the procurement of equipment that will allow players to grow and level up.
We've established content levels for Adoulin content as a means to objectively display difficulty benchmarks. The below is a concrete illustration of these content levels.
| 20 |
|
Delve (Boss monsters) |
|
|
| 19 |
|
|
|
|
| 18 |
|
|
|
|
| 17 |
|
|
|
New Additions to Wildskeeper Reives |
| 16 |
|
|
|
|
| 15 |
|
|
|
|
| 14 |
|
Delve (NM group 2) |
|
|
| 13 |
|
|
|
New additions to Skirmish |
| 12 |
|
|
|
|
| 11 |
|
Delve (NM group 1) |
|
|
| 10 |
|
|
|
|
| 9 |
|
|
|
New additions to Colonization/Lair Reives |
| 8 |
|
|
|
| 7 |
|
Wildskeeper Reives |
|
| 6 |
|
Skirmish |
|
| 5 |
|
Colonization/Lair Reives |
|
|
| 4 |
|
|
|
| 3 |
|
|
|
| 2 |
|
|
|
| 1 |
|
|
|
| Content Level |
|
Up to April 2013 |
|
Next version update (currently adjusting) |
|
Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).
The strength of the monsters that will be introduced are matched to that of the content level, but since there is somewhat of a solidified hierarchy between content, it's been setup so that the strength can be felt with even one level difference in content level. Oppositely, the parameters on Adoulin equipment have been calculated and set in order to deal with these monsters.
Fundamentally we will be making it so that the content level for content to come in the future continues to become higher, but there may be cases where we fill in areas where there is a large jump in content level as needed.
Also, in order to make it so there are various types of content sprawled across a single content level, we are supplementing it with content variations. We've also designed plans to enable resting periods where we will expand laterally instead of vertically, because players may get burnt out going full steam ahead.
In the next version update we will be adding content focusing on filling in the gaps as well as supplementing with content variation.
In the above chart, please look at the “Next version update (currently adjusting)” column. For content levels 6-9 (Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reives), we will be adding equipment appropriate for these content levels that can be exchanged for Bayld along with new Colonization and Lair Reives. Additionally, we will be filling in content for levels 13 and 17.
For those players who are already able to take on Skirmish, Wildskeeper Reives, and Delve at this point in time, it will not be absolutely necessary to challenge this content, but we will be making the above adjustments in case you want to increase your success rate, or are feeling that the current situation is still a bit tough.
Also, as a plan to resolve the issue where Skirmish is not really connecting the content as was planned, we will be undergoing maintenance at the end of this week and making it so statue segments can be obtained from Colonization and Lair Reives at a set rate. (These adjustments are separate from the rules associated with obtaining these items via Coalition Assignments, HELM, and Soul Pyres.)
By performing these adjustments we envision the below flow:
Challenge Colonization and Lair Reives
Obtain statue segments by participating in these reives
Challenge Skirmish with the parts you have obtained
Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.
To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.
In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.
While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.
However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.
I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.
With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:
Excalibur
DMG: 73 Delay: 233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
Burtgang
DMG: 73 Delay: 264 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
Almace
DMG: 70 Delay: 224 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.
In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.
I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.
My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.
I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.
Thank you all very much. | |
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