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Matsui: "Don't throw away your R/M/E weapons yet"
 Phoenix.Cliamain
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 64
By Phoenix.Cliamain 2013-05-03 21:53:41
"I do not have a favorite soda, but I will seek one, maybe I will find one." I would appreciate if you would give me a little more time. Thanks for your understanding. I'm sorry.
I did not want to talk about this, but now I feel I must, instead of telling you my favorite soda, I will perhaps tell you my favorite tea. I'd like to remind you this is just an idea I am considering.
Camate here. Matsui and our dev team are hearing your concerns about his beverage of choice. We realized he had a favorite he was considering, however, keep in mind that they are going through many different drink choices. It isn't an easy task, as we must balance many different aspects of this topic, like flavor, carbonated and non-carbonated, the list goes on. It is our top priority along with favorite snack type, favorite fast food, and favorite ice cream flavor. Once we have determined our final choice, you will be informed. So much win.
 Valefor.Omnys
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1759
By Valefor.Omnys 2013-05-03 22:00:31
My favorite JP post is post #2 on this page.. It looks like he's accusing SE of being gold-diggers
Quote: Japanese player via google translate:
But I think I like that it rubbed me the original development but Well.
It's not like that as well such as Gold Rush?
Do not like strike a vein of gold looking for a place different from others.
Bismarck.Kelhor
Administrator
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 509
By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-05-03 22:07:22
Actually, I interpret this line:
Quote:
Do not like strike a vein of gold looking for a place different from others.
as saying: "Hey, don't *** this up. We like the game as it is, don't go trying to make your mark on it and end up killing the whole thing."
By Celll 2013-05-03 23:36:47
So... from just skimming this topic my understanding is you need to get your R/E/M weapon to 99, then you get to upgrade its dmg to the levels of these newly released weapons? That take maybe a week at the most (if you are really lazy) to get?
Carbuncle.Anesthesia
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 845
By Carbuncle.Anesthesia 2013-05-03 23:37:26
So... from just skimming this topic my understanding is you need to get your R/E/M weapon to 99, then you get to upgrade its dmg to the levels of these newly released weapons? That take maybe a week at the most (if you are really lazy) to get?
what
By Celll 2013-05-03 23:56:23
Carbuncle.Anesthesia said: »So... from just skimming this topic my understanding is you need to get your R/E/M weapon to 99, then you get to upgrade its dmg to the levels of these newly released weapons? That take maybe a week at the most (if you are really lazy) to get?
what
From what I understand you need to get your current REM to 99 then you can upgrade its damage to the newly released weapons. Is this correct?
I hope you could understand that.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-05-03 23:57:55
From what I understand you need to get your current REM to 99 then you can upgrade its damage to the newly released weapons. Is this correct?
I hope you could understand that. there's no way to upgrade them atm, we're just waiting on what SE does
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-05-04 00:20:02
Sadly for some, even a solid, comparable base damage wouldn't be enough. Even if Annihilator/Armageddon get bumped to like 125-ish range, they're gonna need bullets with ~220 damage to keep up with that 248-DMG bow even if it just uses mantid arrow (311 DMG total). And that's not even considering what Yoichinoyumi might get raised to (~275 range maybe).
inb4 Scarletite/Ormulu Bullets.....
Valefor.Omnys
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1759
By Valefor.Omnys 2013-05-04 00:29:52
From what I understand you need to get your current REM to 99 then you can upgrade its damage to the newly released weapons. Is this correct?
I hope you could understand that.
In fact, the last thing SE officially said was they're considering having a 99 REM will allow you access to the ws on any weapon of that time, so long as jobs match (BLU will still not be able to use KoR, probably. Pup no Final Heaven, etc).
So yeah 300m for a weaponskill.
That news has been so poorly received that, if they think it over at all, we'll get what we should have gotten: Upgradable RMEs.
 Asura.Ccl
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1998
By Asura.Ccl 2013-05-04 00:32:47
If they upgrade R/E/M to be on par with new weapon, I'm quitting enough with those 2005 wpn!
By Celll 2013-05-04 00:34:18
From what I understand you need to get your current REM to 99 then you can upgrade its damage to the newly released weapons. Is this correct?
I hope you could understand that.
In fact, the last thing SE officially said was they're considering having a 99 REM will allow you access to the ws on any weapon of that time, so long as jobs match (BLU will still not be able to use KoR, probably. Pup no Final Heaven, etc).
So yeah 300m for a weaponskill.
That news has been so poorly received that, if they think it over at all, we'll get what we should have gotten: Upgradable RMEs.
Well if that's the case I guess the bright note would be that currency will tank.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-05-04 00:36:16
If they do go the upgradable damage path, I just hope they respect how much work is already put in to them just to get to 99, and the upgrade quests are challenging but not another 30kAlex/1500plates level roadblock.
Maybe something like:
Kill each Naakual >>> trade win KIs to NPC : Get +15~25 DMG and some added Acc/Attk/Stat/Enhances _____ VI
Buy a KI for 100k plasm : Get another 20-30 DMG, another level of stats
1-million Bayld KI : Final version with between 5 to 10 higher DMG than Delve R/E weapon and more stat boosts.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-04 00:45:14
Seems highly unlikely that if an upgrade system were implemented you would just be handed a weapon that rivals gear from the highest content level.
Leviathan.Kincard
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-05-04 00:46:57
it would seem equally HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to have a weapon that already costs 100M+ have even more stacked on top of it in order to compete with weapons that people have obtained within 2 days of patch day and like 8 upgrade levels in a week
really weapons as powerful as the delve weapons shouldn't have happened at all, it has completely destroyed item balance even without considering RMEs
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-05-04 00:47:09
Only reason it'd be unlikely is because it'd make way too much sense and SE doesn't work that way.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-04 00:52:53
Any upgrade system implemented at this point would be met with the same ire as their other changes because they allowed too much room for wild speculation with their statements. There's now way they can fulfill expectations at this point.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-05-04 00:54:03
Something > Nothing
Provided "something" =/= "***"
And my expectations would be met by "Not replaced by craftable/Got-lucky-with-the-drop weapons"
By duos 2013-05-04 01:00:33
If SE are not planning to keep REM relevant, they could just up them to be 5-10% less then the current ones and announce that there are no more plans for future upgrades.
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2742
By Fairy.Ghaleon 2013-05-04 01:05:04
I kind of like the idea of combing multiple R/M/E's to make a Super Ultimate weapon.
They would definiately have to give us more assault tags though otherwise fk that >.>;
By Celll 2013-05-04 01:05:17
You know, I wouldn't have minded these weapons being brought out if it took as much work to get them as a current REM, but 2-3 days worth of work to have something that powerful.. is just SE pulling their pants down and taking a cyber dump on all long term players.
Heres an idea SE.. how about going through and making upgrades to REMS first then releasing these kinds of weapons.
Ohh wait, that's the logical thing to do and this is SE of course.
By Lye 2013-05-04 01:15:32
You see these as the most powerful and yet they're not.
There are higher damage craftable weapons already. Furthermore, the locations of the stronger rare/ex versions have yet to be documented.
People flipped about skirmish weapons. Now they're old news. Believe it or not, these may too become old news.
Bismarck.Kelhor
Administrator
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 509
By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-05-04 01:22:16
I kind of like the idea of combing multiple R/M/E's to make a Super Ultimate weapon.
This kind of thing gets thrown around all the time, but the problem is that Relics and Empyreans don't really map cleanly to each other, and Mythics are actually job specific. For weapons that are only used by one job (katana, great katana, scythe, polearm, etc) that's fine, but what about hand to hand?
Weapons like sword and greatsword are even more unruly - there isn't a mythic GS, and none of the swords have matching job sets.
[+]
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-05-04 01:22:16
You see these as the most powerful and yet they're not.
Please do explain how you plan to keep up with a weapon with nearly double the damage of your current one?
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-05-04 01:29:59
Well, I think I'm in the same boat as a bunch of the other RME owners. Not sure it's worth bothering anymore. I'm right on the verge of cancelling my account's. Which is another point I think SE is probably ignoring, many RME owners pay for multiple accounts nowadays. So every time one of these players quits you are losing on average more than one paying account. I will be shutting 3 off if I decide to go. At this point I think if I don't hear anything by this time next week on the RME plan I'll be shutting down. I should probably be using my time more productively anyhow.
More than just losing that player's main and mule account, actually. A lot of players like you have close friends, and only pay to play with close friends. If one of their close friend log on and see all his friends are gone, he'd feel less motivated and quit too because he can't find anyone to play with.
[+]
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-05-04 01:31:14
not even just close friends, a lot of linkshells rely heavily on a couple players and their mules.. there just aren't that many NA players around, and even less competent ones
my shells list has dwindled like a lot of other people, and we've gone from having around 10 players ~25 characters around to around 4-6 players ~16-18 characters
take away a couple more people and we wont be able to do delve, and then the rest go too
By Lye 2013-05-04 01:32:13
You see these as the most powerful and yet they're not.
Please do explain how you plan to keep up with a weapon with nearly double the damage of your current one?
The above post cited weapons obtained within 2 days of the update. The weapons obtained at this point are not the best in the game. It is a fact.
=====================================
As to your request, flip the tables for one minute:
1) You are the designer of an mmo and you want to make exciting and difficult new content. Content that requires better gear.
2) You've already pandered to the most self-entitled mmo player-base by allowing precious 1's and 0's to be upgraded up until this point.
By Lye 2013-05-04 01:33:03
Chill out and sit tight. He's told you that they are considering one way to do it.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-05-04 01:34:37
You are the designer of an mmo and you want to make exciting and difficult new content.
yet to see this exciting and difficult content
just old mobs with obscene stats
brd rotation xi
| 04-26-2013 12:52 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team |  |
| | I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.
What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.
In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.
For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.
Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event. | |
| 05-09-2013 10:15 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator |  |
| | Matsui: Follow up on Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin Weapons
Hello, it's Matsui. Thank you for all of your opinions about Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (hereafter, RMEC). They were very helpful.
After reading all of the varied opinions, we have decided that rather than unlocking the weapon skills specific to each weapon, a reworking of RME weapons would be more effective (for coin weapons, more information will be provided later, but we plan to allow these to unlock the dedicated weapon skills).
I have written and reorganized this in various ways and it has become quite lengthy with examples. After you have gotten a chance to look over it, please let us know if you have any further opinions.
Content Level
We received many questions about the parameters of Adoulin equipment. Because this is an important part in order to be able to understand the reworking of RME so you can provide your opinion, please allow me to repeat the explanation for content level and growth in Seekers of Adoulin.
In Adoulin, the basic design is a repeated play cycle where players become stronger and stronger as they align themselves with equipment obtained from challenging content which, in turn, allows them to take on even more challenging content.
By aligning themselves with this equipment, players will continue to grow even without leveling up.
The content level of Adoulin content is set as follows:
[[Info below is much better formatted in a table on the original post.]]
20: Delve (Boss Monsters) (Current)
17: Wildskeeper Reive (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
14: Delve NMs (Tier 2) (Current)
13: Skirmish (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
11: Delve NMs (Tier 1) (Current)
6-9: Colonization / Lair Reives (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
7: Wildskeeper Reive (Current)
6: Skirmish (Current)
1-5: Colonization/Lair Reives (Current)
The strength of the equipment that can be obtained, rather than the level of the equipment, will be dependent on the content level. The equipment to be added later in Adoulin will of course be equippable at level 99, but the level of the equipment parameters would be even higher to match the content level (for example, similar to what level 110 or 120 equipment might look like).
While the strength of the monsters which appear is determined to match the content level, in order to fill out the hierarchy between content to some extent, we have designed monsters of variable strength. The parameters of the equipment that can be obtained in Adoulin is set by determining the parameters that would be necessary to compete with those monsters.
The level of current and planned content is set to minimize the gaps between content level, but we may also insert additional intermediate content if the jump between levels remains too high.
In some cases, content variations will cause content to cover multiple levels. We also plan to enhance the amount of content available horizontally at individual levels, rather than just vertically over the content level range.
The content in the next version update will be added with this in mind.
Referencing the "next version update" items above, it will be possible to add new colonization and lair reive equipment purchasable for Bayld in the level 6~9 range (which currently includes Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives). In addition, we will be inserting new content at levels 13 and 17.
Also, one part of smoothing out the content level will be adjusted in a maintenance to be carried out of the end of this week: we will be adding a fixed probability to obtain the items needed to enter Skirmishes (Simulacrum Segments) from Lair and Colonization Reives. (This adjustment is unrelated to the current rules associated with coalition assignments, gathering, and Soul Pyres.)
By making this adjustment, the assumed progression will be:
1. First, take on lair and colonization reives.
2. As a result of those battles, obtain Simulacrum Segments.
3. Combine the segments in order to enter Skirmishes.
Reworking RMEC
Please excuse my lengthy explanation above. I'll now return to the topic at hand.
First off, since it is necessary for the development staff to further consider the implementation, we cannot guarantee the timeframe as far as whether it will be included in the next version update.
Regarding the types of parameters that would be reworked, special abilities such as Aftermath and Afterglow will remain, while parameters such as the DMG rating, attack, and accuracy will be set to match the content level post-rework.
Since the parameters will be reworked to become aligned with high content difficulty, we do not intend to rework it in small intervals such as with the previous method of Trial of the Magians.
Prior to now, RME were considered the strongest weapons, so I think there will need to be some change to this viewpoint. For those who have RME, you may not require the other weapons, but there now be a choice among other comparable weapons.
If you are worried about how these weapons will be able to be used, for example, against Delve boss monsters, here are some parameters which we are looking at for the reworking. This is just for RME one-handed swords as an example:
Excalibur
DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
to
DMG:121 Delay:233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
Burtgang
DMG:73 Delay:264 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
to
DMG:131 Delay:264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Almace
DMG:70 Delay:224 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
to
DMG:114 Delay:224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Since coin weapons were originally just intended to be used for Empyrean weapon skills, based on the concept, I believe that instead of reworking them, they can be used to open the dedicated weapon skills (with certain level and job restrictions). We are currently considering the adjustment procedures necessary for this..
In conclusion
I've gone on for a while, so considering the reworking for level 99 Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons as well as the unlocking of dedicated weapon skills via Coin weapons, please let us know your opinions. We will read through your thoughts one by one to make sure we understand your point of view.
Note that this is a large departure from the original plan. Considering the feasibility of scheduling this change, the development may take some time.
I apologize for keeping you waiting on my response.
Thanks in advance!
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 05-09-2013 2:19 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons
Matsui here.
Thank you all so much for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes weapons. It has helped out tremendously.
After reading over all of your feedback, instead of continuing the growth of these weapons by unlocking the weapon skills that are tied to each of the weapons, I feel it would be better to perform a revamp on RME weapons. (Regarding Walk of Echoes weapons, I will talk about this below, but they will be involved with unlocking the specialized weapon skills.)
I've been reworking a lot, and writing it all up, but it seems the post turned out rather lengthy, so once you have been able to read through it all and digest it we'd love to hear your feedback.
Content Level
We've received a lot of questions about the stats on Adoulin equipment, and I'd like to once again explain about growth and content levels in Seekers of Adoulin as this is a critical aspect in order to receive feedback on the revamps for RME weapons.
The content in Adoulin has been designed with a repeating play-cycle where you challenge content that you are able to at that moment in time, gather equipment, become stronger, and then take on higher tier content which will allow you to gather even stronger equipment.
It's through the procurement of equipment that will allow players to grow and level up.
We've established content levels for Adoulin content as a means to objectively display difficulty benchmarks. The below is a concrete illustration of these content levels.
| 20 |
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Delve (Boss monsters) |
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| 19 |
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| 18 |
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| 17 |
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New Additions to Wildskeeper Reives |
| 16 |
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| 15 |
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| 14 |
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Delve (NM group 2) |
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| 13 |
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New additions to Skirmish |
| 12 |
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| 11 |
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Delve (NM group 1) |
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| 10 |
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| 9 |
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New additions to Colonization/Lair Reives |
| 8 |
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| 7 |
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Wildskeeper Reives |
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| 6 |
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Skirmish |
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| 5 |
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Colonization/Lair Reives |
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| 4 |
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| 3 |
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| 2 |
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| 1 |
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| Content Level |
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Up to April 2013 |
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Next version update (currently adjusting) |
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Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).
The strength of the monsters that will be introduced are matched to that of the content level, but since there is somewhat of a solidified hierarchy between content, it's been setup so that the strength can be felt with even one level difference in content level. Oppositely, the parameters on Adoulin equipment have been calculated and set in order to deal with these monsters.
Fundamentally we will be making it so that the content level for content to come in the future continues to become higher, but there may be cases where we fill in areas where there is a large jump in content level as needed.
Also, in order to make it so there are various types of content sprawled across a single content level, we are supplementing it with content variations. We've also designed plans to enable resting periods where we will expand laterally instead of vertically, because players may get burnt out going full steam ahead.
In the next version update we will be adding content focusing on filling in the gaps as well as supplementing with content variation.
In the above chart, please look at the “Next version update (currently adjusting)” column. For content levels 6-9 (Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reives), we will be adding equipment appropriate for these content levels that can be exchanged for Bayld along with new Colonization and Lair Reives. Additionally, we will be filling in content for levels 13 and 17.
For those players who are already able to take on Skirmish, Wildskeeper Reives, and Delve at this point in time, it will not be absolutely necessary to challenge this content, but we will be making the above adjustments in case you want to increase your success rate, or are feeling that the current situation is still a bit tough.
Also, as a plan to resolve the issue where Skirmish is not really connecting the content as was planned, we will be undergoing maintenance at the end of this week and making it so statue segments can be obtained from Colonization and Lair Reives at a set rate. (These adjustments are separate from the rules associated with obtaining these items via Coalition Assignments, HELM, and Soul Pyres.)
By performing these adjustments we envision the below flow:
Challenge Colonization and Lair Reives
Obtain statue segments by participating in these reives
Challenge Skirmish with the parts you have obtained
Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.
To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.
In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.
While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.
However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.
I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.
With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:
Excalibur
DMG: 73 Delay: 233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
Burtgang
DMG: 73 Delay: 264 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
Almace
DMG: 70 Delay: 224 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.
In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.
I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.
My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.
I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.
Thank you all very much. | |
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