|
|
Matsui: "Don't throw away your R/M/E weapons yet"
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-05-02 13:55:00
Either way it'll take a year or more to pump out "refreshing" new RMEs so... it's that or a halfbaked RME augment system that requires using Marrows to synergize new 300base dmg Apocs!
By Blazed1979 2013-05-02 13:57:21
Making RMEs was the only long-term activity available before the release of Adoulin. You can't draw conclusions from it's popularity when it was part of a small subset of content that was actually worth doing. What else were people gonna do (aside from not play anymore which many people did)?
It would have pissed off a lot less people if they had gone the route of introducing new content that allowed R/E/M holders to further improve, while also providing upgrades for everyone else.
Matsui said he's introducing a quest to upgrade Black Belt. An Item that was outdated months ago. If he's willing to invest "manpower" hours into upgrading an item like black belt, yet claim R/E/Ms do not posses enough value in terms of effort and time to be carried into the new FFXI - then he's right out HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
 Asura.Ina
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2013-05-02 13:58:14
He doesn't want to address the RME situation because it goes against the idea of a gear progression reset. I thought we had entered a stage of acceptance already. People seem to be stuck in the Anger/Bargaining stages. Thing is if they just came on and said "Yeah were not gonna do anything." Anyone who was going to quit over it would have done so and people would have moved on. Instead they keep coming in and say "No no we are going to keep them important." or "We are looking at this but don't know if we can do it." It seems they are trying to keep everyone happy at the cost of providing a solid ground for players to plant their feet in.
 Bahamut.Kiralai
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 132
By Bahamut.Kiralai 2013-05-02 13:58:58
He doesn't want to address the RME situation because it goes against the idea of a gear progression reset. I thought we had entered a stage of acceptance already. People seem to be stuck in the Anger/Bargaining stages.
Technically speaking, the "weapon skill unlock" idea that Matsui mentioned could address the RME situation (assuming the unlock came with the Aftermath) without going against the idea of a gear progression. The quality of weapons would keep increasing, but R/M/E holders would be able to (ideally) apply their WS plus Aftermath to any of them. Meaning that someone with an R/M/E would still have to obtain whatever the current "best" weapon is, but the fact that they had R/M/E would guarantee that they were outperforming everyone else, including non-R/M/E holders with the same exact weapon.
The problems that would still exist for many people would be that they enjoy the unique skin of the R/M/E weapons (and the lore that accompanies them), or that they simply don't like the idea of obtaining a new weapon every couple of months, but it still remains to be seen if that is even Matsui's intention. It's hard to tell, because the whole Skirmish weapons -> Delve weapons thing is an isolated event (so far) and there's no way to determine a pattern.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Returner
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 440
By Ragnarok.Returner 2013-05-02 14:01:34
I think most player base can agree on this: you can make super new armors and super accessories, just don't touch our REM, we will do anything to upgrade it but don't make them useless. I am not sure why, but there is something more to the weapons than any other slots.
[+]
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-05-02 14:02:48
He doesn't want to address the RME situation because it goes against the idea of a gear progression reset. I thought we had entered a stage of acceptance already. People seem to be stuck in the Anger/Bargaining stages. Technically speaking, the "weapon skill unlock" idea that Matsui mentioned could address the RME situation (assuming the unlock came with the Aftermath) without going against the idea of a gear progression. The quality of weapons would keep increasing, but R/M/E holders would be able to (ideally) apply their WS plus Aftermath to any of them. Meaning that someone with an R/M/E would still have to obtain whatever the current "best" weapon is, but the fact that they had R/M/E would guarantee that they were outperforming everyone else, including non-R/M/E holders with the same exact weapon. The problems that would still exist for many people would be that they enjoy the unique skin of the R/M/E weapons (and the lore that accompanies them), or that they simply don't like the idea of obtaining a new weapon every couple of months, but it still remains to be seen if that is even Matsui's intention. It's hard to tell, because the whole Skirmish weapons -> Delve weapons thing is an isolated event (so far) and there's no way to determine a pattern.
yeah, i agree. the ws unlock, PROVIDED YOU KEEP THE AFTERMATH, is worthwhile if only because it answers what is probably the most relevant question in the affirmative:
"after the dust settles, is there any rational reason to start making an RME from scratch?"
By Otomis 2013-05-02 14:03:47
He doesn't want to address the RME situation because it goes against the idea of a gear progression reset. I thought we had entered a stage of acceptance already. People seem to be stuck in the Anger/Bargaining stages.
Technically speaking, the "weapon skill unlock" idea that Matsui mentioned could address the RME situation (assuming the unlock came with the Aftermath) without going against the idea of a gear progression. The quality of weapons would keep increasing, but R/M/E holders would be able to (ideally) apply their WS plus Aftermath to any of them. Meaning that someone with an R/M/E would still have to obtain whatever the current "best" weapon is, but the fact that they had R/M/E would guarantee that they were outperforming everyone else, including non-R/M/E holders with the same exact weapon.
The problems that would still exist for many people would be that they enjoy the unique skin of the R/M/E weapons (and the lore that accompanies them), or that they simply don't like the idea of obtaining a new weapon every couple of months, but it still remains to be seen if that is even Matsui's intention. It's hard to tell, because the whole Skirmish weapons -> Delve weapons thing is an isolated event (so far) and there's no way to determine a pattern.
I am fine with this as both a relic and empy owner, my only issue with it all is that many relic WS especially with out the aftermath and bonus damage are not competitive. You also loose out on your occ extra attacks damage. I really think the best option as said is simple, just allow REM owners to continue to upgrade weapons to stay competitive. They do not have to be the most epic weapons by huge amounts but they should be very close to the top option.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-02 14:04:55
Thing is if they just came on and said "Yeah were not gonna do anything." Anyone who was going to quit over it would have done so and people would have moved on. Instead they keep coming in and say "No no we are going to keep them important." or "We are looking at this but don't know if we can do it." It seems they are trying to keep everyone happy at the cost of providing a solid ground for players to plant their feet in. I agree. He'll eventually run out of ways to politely say no, and at that point I hope he's able to articulate a plan better.
Not directed at Ina: Again, anything that would give RME holders an advantage goes against the idea of a gear reset. It's clear from the relative ease of access for these weapons, that they want most everyone to start out on equal footing.
By Blazed1979 2013-05-02 14:05:01
Ragnarok.Returner said: »I think most player base can agree on this: you can make super new armors and super accessories, just don't touch our REM, we will do anything to upgrade it but don't make them useless. I am not sure why, but there is something more to the weapons than any other slots.
It is because Relics, and by extension Mythics, represented a milestone for players. My friend took 6 years to finish his Mythic!
The work on his mythic is equal to my son's entire life.
In one stroke, Matsui said "FU_K YOU and YOUR 6 YEARS."
EDIT: I didn't do a Mythic, and I did an MBA, got promoted from a middle manager to a VP at work, got married, had kids. All that time my friend was investing in a weapon he, and many others, thought would be worth it in the end because anything that is so damn hard to obtain and rare, should come with some lasting intrinsic value.
Otherwise we've all been scammed.
[+]
Ragnarok.Alahra
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 296
By Ragnarok.Alahra 2013-05-02 14:08:31
He doesn't want to address the RME situation because it goes against the idea of a gear progression reset. I thought we had entered a stage of acceptance already. People seem to be stuck in the Anger/Bargaining stages.
Technically speaking, the "weapon skill unlock" idea that Matsui mentioned could address the RME situation (assuming the unlock came with the Aftermath) without going against the idea of a gear progression. The quality of weapons would keep increasing, but R/M/E holders would be able to (ideally) apply their WS plus Aftermath to any of them. Meaning that someone with an R/M/E would still have to obtain whatever the current "best" weapon is, but the fact that they had R/M/E would guarantee that they were outperforming everyone else, including non-R/M/E holders with the same exact weapon.
The problems that would still exist for many people would be that they enjoy the unique skin of the R/M/E weapons (and the lore that accompanies them), or that they simply don't like the idea of obtaining a new weapon every couple of months, but it still remains to be seen if that is even Matsui's intention. It's hard to tell, because the whole Skirmish weapons -> Delve weapons thing is an isolated event (so far) and there's no way to determine a pattern.
I am fine with this as both a relic and empy owner, my only issue with it all is that many relic WS especially with out the aftermath and bonus damage are not competitive. You also loose out on your occ extra attacks damage. I really think the best option as said is simple, just allow REM owners to continue to upgrade weapons to stay competitive. They do not have to be the most epic weapons by huge amounts but they should be very close to the top option.
Kikoku at least is good because of its stats. The WS and Aftermath alone aren't worth building it.
Fenrir.Camiie
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 817
By Fenrir.Camiie 2013-05-02 14:09:12
I sure hope they don't have the gall to come out with any new Legendary class weapons. They probably will at some point, but I'd feel like a complete fool for jumping on that train again after this.
Oh yeah, but weren't they supposed to make mythics (or something) for GEO and RUN? Who's totally pumped to get started on that huh?
[+]
Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2013-05-02 14:09:56
Ragnarok.Returner said: »I think most player base can agree on this: you can make super new armors and super accessories, just don't touch our REM, we will do anything to upgrade it but don't make them useless. I am not sure why, but there is something more to the weapons than any other slots.
It is because Relics, and by extension Mythics, represented a milestone for players. My friend took 6 years to finish his Mythic!
The work on his mythic is equal to my son's entire life.
In one stroke, Matsui said "FU_K YOU and YOUR 6 YEARS."
EDIT: I didn't do a Mythic, and I did an MBA, got promoted from a middle manager to a VP at work, got married, had kids. All that time my friend was investing in a weapon he, and many others, thought would be worth it in the end because anything that is so damn hard to obtain and rare, should come with some lasting intrinsic value.
Otherwise we've all been scammed.
Sounds like your friend learned a valuable life lesson.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-02 14:10:16
Good god, the theatrics coming from some people...
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-05-02 14:10:46
Thing is if they just came on and said "Yeah were not gonna do anything." Anyone who was going to quit over it would have done so and people would have moved on. Instead they keep coming in and say "No no we are going to keep them important." or "We are looking at this but don't know if we can do it." It seems they are trying to keep everyone happy at the cost of providing a solid ground for players to plant their feet in. I agree. He'll eventually run out of ways to politely say no, and at that point I hope he's able to articulate a plan better. Not directed at Ina: Again, anything that would give RME holders an advantage goes against the idea of a gear reset. It's clear from the relative ease of access for these weapons, that they want most everyone to start out on equal footing.
we did.
11 years ago.
-.-
By Quiznor 2013-05-02 14:11:01
Good god, the theatrics coming from some people...
The RL card is strong in this thread
[+]
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-05-02 14:13:20
MY SON FOR AN ANNIHILATOR.
MY DAUGHTER FOR A DEATH PENALTY.
MY NOT QUITE ALL THERE UNCLE FOR A GASTROPHETES.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-05-02 14:13:36
Dear Ash:
I remember playing a game called Faxanadu....
Try to imagine a game that doesn't have autosave or save points. Every time you wanted to stop playing and save, you were given a code called a "mantra" which you would later enter back in...
This game kicked the *** off of pumping quarter after quarter into games like Pac-Man and Yie Ar Kung-Fu at the arcade because you could play forever and it never cost anything!
My friend and I spent an incalculable amount of time beating this game (because we are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE) and of course, like all games before FFXI, at the end the game, you win and it just rolls credits...
and I remember thinking... wouldn't it be nice if they came out with a sequel and you could enter the Final Mantra into it and you would get something cool for all the effort you sunk into the previous game....
Jump forward a couple decades and the closest they ever came (that I am aware of) is a crappy weapon for beating the prequel in Ratchet and Clank 2.
Well at least they did something....
Some people have figured out a way to get something tangible out of playing video games (RMTs as an example) I am not that smart, I have never been able to figure it out.
But I have spent the last thirty + years wishing and dreaming and hoping for these strange things because that's what I do I don't actually do anything, I just pretend to do things in video games.
Call me lazy, call me what you will...
Anyway, cue the FFXI music! So I get this game used in the discount bin at the store in like 2006/7 or something and the guy that works at the counter says it's his friend who was a blm and he has seen it, it's cool and everything, but nobody plays any more.... because it's online only, which I didn't understand at all...
So after several minutes hours of him trying to explain it to me, I gave up and bought it anyways....
And I don't know what to expect or what the hell I am doing but along the way my family and I meet some cool people that helped us along this journey. However, I have never expected anything to come out of playing this game other than the joy of playing it at the time. Wished/hoped/prayed for? sure, but never expected.
I knew eventually we would beat this game and then move on to the next one.... which of course brings us to the problem.
Now, there are five fundamental flaws FFXI will probably never beat without a time machine.
1.) The game has no end
2.) they called it "11" meaning there was going to be a 12 and a 13 and 14 and a 15 etc.
3.) WoW has been laughing at them all the way to the bank for so long many of the executives have committed sepaku to remedy their shame.
4.) they have the worst marketing and distribution in the known universe.
5.) the name Final Fantasy is kinda "gey" (or whatever you kids use to replace the word gay now that they outlawed calling gay things gay)
So I won't bore you with the thousand other reasons why WoW works and FFXI doesn't, it doesn't matter. But at the core is this whole idea of it being "11 of ???" and not "the game" and our meal ticket for the next fifteen to twenty years...
The main problem being SE thought they would come up with something better by now... and they can't figure it out. The new game is either too much like XI or too much like WoW or not enough like either one.
They can't win just like we can't win FFXI it's KARMA taking a huge bite out of their collective ***!
Let's face some facts here. 1.) If we put the time we have invested in FFXI as players into a minimum wage job we would all be $100,000.00 richer right now. 2.) We are too lazy to start doing that now even after figuring that staggering fact out. 3.) at some point SE will probably go bankrupt, they will cut the power to the servers and everything but the RL friendships we have gained in and our memories of FFXI will be lost forever.
This is all you get. For all your countless hours sweating away in your favorite chair staring at the screen. Are you ready?
/my electronic hand reaching across the atmosphere to rest on your shoulder and tell you, I know that feel bro, just let it go...
There you go. Now you can be like me the rest of your life, pumping quarter after quarter into video games to watch the lights blink or go out there and be somebody! You know either way kid there's nothing at the end but a cold box in the hard ground. I don't think you even get a credit roll with music. I rely heavily on, and strongly endorse alcohol to get through...
But what the hell do I know! Nothing! Perhaps there are new and wonderful things just beyond the horizon I can't see becasue I am old and need new peepers. I'm sure you'll be fine /backslap
How long will I hold a grudge against SE? Probably forever!!! It's been 24 years and I am still mad at Faxanadu for not coming out with a sequel I could use my mantra on...those lazy ***!
And so in closing I would like to wish you, a warm welcome to the League of Unextrodinary Old Vidya Game Playing Codgers! Which your post made you a member of! /fanfare /little plastic confetti popper noise /single balloon floats halfway to the ceiling and then glides sadly back to the floor
The whiskey is over there in NI in the medicine cabinet....
/fanfare peters out and trails off
The only thing is that "this will totally become unarguably irrelevant in comparison to easy *** dropped gear" would have been a huge tip to the scales when I was weighing in whether to do it or not....
By Blazed1979 2013-05-02 14:18:20
Ragnarok.Returner said: »I think most player base can agree on this: you can make super new armors and super accessories, just don't touch our REM, we will do anything to upgrade it but don't make them useless. I am not sure why, but there is something more to the weapons than any other slots.
It is because Relics, and by extension Mythics, represented a milestone for players. My friend took 6 years to finish his Mythic!
The work on his mythic is equal to my son's entire life.
In one stroke, Matsui said "FU_K YOU and YOUR 6 YEARS."
EDIT: I didn't do a Mythic, and I did an MBA, got promoted from a middle manager to a VP at work, got married, had kids. All that time my friend was investing in a weapon he, and many others, thought would be worth it in the end because anything that is so damn hard to obtain and rare, should come with some lasting intrinsic value.
Otherwise we've all been scammed.
Sounds like your friend learned a valuable life lesson. That, coming from you of all people, makes me chuckle.
You and him are pretty much in the same boat lol
Siren.Calnus
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 796
By Siren.Calnus 2013-05-02 14:19:05
Quote: I understand the delicacy of this discussion and everyone's feelings on the matter; however, please keep in mind that Producer Matsui has indicated that all of this is no where near finalized at this point and they are still in the early discussion phase.
I would love to post on the official forums for this response: "Well then tell Producer Matsui that this idea is terrible and even on a whim of mentioning the idea, the community is slightly pissed at the notion."
And here comes my point of view for anyone who pretends to care:
After careful thought of what they are trying to do, this really is a terrible idea to just suddenly fabricate auction house weapons with nearly double the base damage and same (if not more) Accuracy/Attack. Then they state that you will be able to use the unlocked weapon skills if you took the weapon to 99?
Whether you believe so or not, this is a direct insult to anyone who completed a 99 relic or empyrean in the history of the game. What would be worse is the fact that you can ALREADY use the mythic skill when quested. It can only be assumed that this meant to include aftermath effects.
At this point in time for top tier players. People have pretty much completed everything there was to do with the game. We put our 10 years or whatever into the game. We achieved many of the things by now that we never thought we would. For some of us it may have been completing 10-15 R/M/E, for others they may have finally achieved the 1-2 relics they always wanted and never thought they could get.
A new expansion seemed fairly exciting. New areas and content seemed always welcome. Our last experience with Wings of the Goddess set forward out expectations as far as release scheduling and content, but what we are now experiencing is something very different and unsettling (rightly so).
The entire dynamic of the game has been altered (even if only slightly). The attack to defense ratio has completely set us back from initial understanding, and PDT/Defense sets are more vital than ever. Even with proper sets some jobs are no longer able to sustain like they could. The ONE good thing from this however is the revival of PLD and the utility of BST transitioning to dynamis EP to being generally amazing again (including old school charm).
It is really hard to speak on this subject without ruffling everyone's feathers and bunching up panties more than they already are. We absolutely could just be blowing it all out of proportion. We should be patient and see what the future brings before putting our ducks in a row. But this time it seems like a bad idea to sit idle by and just "take what we get".
Are we ready to put another 10 years into this game? Some might be. I've personally enjoyed FFXI to it's fullest extent. Some of us are ready to ride this beast into the ground until the day the servers go offline. But this may not be the path the game was meant to take. We do NOT want to throw everything we previously did out the window with the weaponskill as a memento.
Siren.Calnus
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 796
By Siren.Calnus 2013-05-02 14:19:13
It's true that MMO's will always use the "out with the old, in with the new" mentality. It's how the games survive for so long.
But for this new expansion we are seeing a nearly complete eradication of all old equipment outside of basic macro swaps.
I'm about to take it to the extreme. I have mentioned this with my previous linkshell several times. What they SHOULD have maybe done (which I tried to predict they would do), is perhaps allow you to combine weapons/armor into a new tier.
For example: Introduce a way to +2 artifact equipment. At that point you can now introduce a way to trade your +2 Artifact/Relic/Empyrean for a new piece of equipment that essentially combines any enhancement effects with new high end defense and stats as seen fit. You could then request any pieces you see fit if the new stats don't fit what you previously used the gear for outside of enhancements. This adds new content with the option for people to repeat old content as they see fit.
This method would require the development of 22 more pieces of job specific armor like they did with abyssea, for all the different races. But this would act as a "final" or "next step" of artifact gear.
But why stop here?
What if they made a way to combine a single job's weapon into a finalized "legendary" weapon? A specific example could include something along the lines of combining a 99-II Amano, 99-II Masamune and 99-II Koga into a new 300+ damage new weapon with all the bells and whistles your imagination could gather.
People may equally call this idea stupid, or argue that this would take 10+ years too unless they fixed some of the item drops.
But hey, we could always just unlock the weaponskill and snag an auction house weapon. Why not? /sarcasm.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2013-05-02 14:19:13
Dear Ash:
I remember playing a game called Faxanadu....
Try to imagine a game that doesn't have autosave or save points. Every time you wanted to stop playing and save, you were given a code called a "mantra" which you would later enter back in...
This game kicked the *** off of pumping quarter after quarter into games like Pac-Man and Yie Ar Kung-Fu at the arcade because you could play forever and it never cost anything!
My friend and I spent an incalculable amount of time beating this game (because we are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE) and of course, like all games before FFXI, at the end the game, you win and it just rolls credits...
and I remember thinking... wouldn't it be nice if they came out with a sequel and you could enter the Final Mantra into it and you would get something cool for all the effort you sunk into the previous game....
Jump forward a couple decades and the closest they ever came (that I am aware of) is a crappy weapon for beating the prequel in Ratchet and Clank 2.
Well at least they did something....
Some people have figured out a way to get something tangible out of playing video games (RMTs as an example) I am not that smart, I have never been able to figure it out.
But I have spent the last thirty + years wishing and dreaming and hoping for these strange things because that's what I do I don't actually do anything, I just pretend to do things in video games.
Call me lazy, call me what you will...
Anyway, cue the FFXI music! So I get this game used in the discount bin at the store in like 2006/7 or something and the guy that works at the counter says it's his friend who was a blm and he has seen it, it's cool and everything, but nobody plays any more.... because it's online only, which I didn't understand at all...
So after several minutes hours of him trying to explain it to me, I gave up and bought it anyways....
And I don't know what to expect or what the hell I am doing but along the way my family and I meet some cool people that helped us along this journey. However, I have never expected anything to come out of playing this game other than the joy of playing it at the time. Wished/hoped/prayed for? sure, but never expected.
I knew eventually we would beat this game and then move on to the next one.... which of course brings us to the problem.
Now, there are five fundamental flaws FFXI will probably never beat without a time machine.
1.) The game has no end
2.) they called it "11" meaning there was going to be a 12 and a 13 and 14 and a 15 etc.
3.) WoW has been laughing at them all the way to the bank for so long many of the executives have committed sepaku to remedy their shame.
4.) they have the worst marketing and distribution in the known universe.
5.) the name Final Fantasy is kinda "gey" (or whatever you kids use to replace the word gay now that they outlawed calling gay things gay)
So I won't bore you with the thousand other reasons why WoW works and FFXI doesn't, it doesn't matter. But at the core is this whole idea of it being "11 of ???" and not "the game" and our meal ticket for the next fifteen to twenty years...
The main problem being SE thought they would come up with something better by now... and they can't figure it out. The new game is either too much like XI or too much like WoW or not enough like either one.
They can't win just like we can't win FFXI it's KARMA taking a huge bite out of their collective ***!
Let's face some facts here. 1.) If we put the time we have invested in FFXI as players into a minimum wage job we would all be $100,000.00 richer right now. 2.) We are too lazy to start doing that now even after figuring that staggering fact out. 3.) at some point SE will probably go bankrupt, they will cut the power to the servers and everything but the RL friendships we have gained in and our memories of FFXI will be lost forever.
This is all you get. For all your countless hours sweating away in your favorite chair staring at the screen. Are you ready?
/my electronic hand reaching across the atmosphere to rest on your shoulder and tell you, I know that feel bro, just let it go...
There you go. Now you can be like me the rest of your life, pumping quarter after quarter into video games to watch the lights blink or go out there and be somebody! You know either way kid there's nothing at the end but a cold box in the hard ground. I don't think you even get a credit roll with music. I rely heavily on, and strongly endorse alcohol to get through...
But what the hell do I know! Nothing! Perhaps there are new and wonderful things just beyond the horizon I can't see becasue I am old and need new peepers. I'm sure you'll be fine /backslap
How long will I hold a grudge against SE? Probably forever!!! It's been 24 years and I am still mad at Faxanadu for not coming out with a sequel I could use my mantra on...those lazy ***!
And so in closing I would like to wish you, a warm welcome to the League of Unextrodinary Old Vidya Game Playing Codgers! Which your post made you a member of! /fanfare /little plastic confetti popper noise /single balloon floats halfway to the ceiling and then glides sadly back to the floor
The whiskey is over there in NI in the medicine cabinet....
/fanfare peters out and trails off
The only thing is that "this will totally become unarguably irrelevant in comparison to easy *** dropped gear" would have been a huge tip to the scales when I was weighing in whether to do it or not....
i'll let you in on a secret /whispers
it's all my fault because I just finished my mandau and my video game karma sucks ***! and I knew it would happen... which makes me a bad person...
[+]
Asura.Ina
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2013-05-02 14:20:47
Good god, the theatrics coming from some people... I got told to drink bleach earlier, it was good for a lul.
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 96
By Siren.Taruina 2013-05-02 14:25:55
because you are full of butthurt
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-05-02 14:26:58
Ragnarok.Returner said: »I think most player base can agree on this: you can make super new armors and super accessories, just don't touch our REM, we will do anything to upgrade it but don't make them useless. I am not sure why, but there is something more to the weapons than any other slots. It is because Relics, and by extension Mythics, represented a milestone for players. My friend took 6 years to finish his Mythic! The work on his mythic is equal to my son's entire life. In one stroke, Matsui said "FU_K YOU and YOUR 6 YEARS." EDIT: I didn't do a Mythic, and I did an MBA, got promoted from a middle manager to a VP at work, got married, had kids. All that time my friend was investing in a weapon he, and many others, thought would be worth it in the end because anything that is so damn hard to obtain and rare, should come with some lasting intrinsic value. Otherwise we've all been scammed. Sounds like your friend learned a valuable life lesson. That coming from you of all people makes me chuckle. You and him are pretty much in the same boat lol
yeah, the shift from "if you don't dedicate yourself to making an R/E for (whatever job you happen to be asking questions about) you are lazy and unworthy of consideration" to "haha, look at these clowns all mad because the time went down the drain" is fascinating if not totally surprising
how little a sense of self-worth do you guys have, come on
your time is your time and you have a limited amount; even if you're addicted to a drug, you have a right to be offended if your dealer, of all people, mocks you for wasting it
[+]
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-02 14:32:36
So now accepting the change of direction of the game indicates low self-worth. That's rich.
[+]
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 53
By Shiva.Alistaire 2013-05-02 14:33:33
Dear Ash:
I remember playing a game called Faxanadu....
Try to imagine a game that doesn't have autosave or save points. Every time you wanted to stop playing and save, you were given a code called a "mantra" which you would later enter back in...
This game kicked the *** off of pumping quarter after quarter into games like Pac-Man and Yie Ar Kung-Fu at the arcade because you could play forever and it never cost anything!
My friend and I spent an incalculable amount of time beating this game (because we are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE) and of course, like all games before FFXI, at the end the game, you win and it just rolls credits...
and I remember thinking... wouldn't it be nice if they came out with a sequel and you could enter the Final Mantra into it and you would get something cool for all the effort you sunk into the previous game....
Jump forward a couple decades and the closest they ever came (that I am aware of) is a crappy weapon for beating the prequel in Ratchet and Clank 2.
Well at least they did something....
Some people have figured out a way to get something tangible out of playing video games (RMTs as an example) I am not that smart, I have never been able to figure it out.
But I have spent the last thirty + years wishing and dreaming and hoping for these strange things because that's what I do I don't actually do anything, I just pretend to do things in video games.
Call me lazy, call me what you will...
Anyway, cue the FFXI music! So I get this game used in the discount bin at the store in like 2006/7 or something and the guy that works at the counter says it's his friend who was a blm and he has seen it, it's cool and everything, but nobody plays any more.... because it's online only, which I didn't understand at all...
So after several minutes hours of him trying to explain it to me, I gave up and bought it anyways....
And I don't know what to expect or what the hell I am doing but along the way my family and I meet some cool people that helped us along this journey. However, I have never expected anything to come out of playing this game other than the joy of playing it at the time. Wished/hoped/prayed for? sure, but never expected.
I knew eventually we would beat this game and then move on to the next one.... which of course brings us to the problem.
Now, there are five fundamental flaws FFXI will probably never beat without a time machine.
1.) The game has no end
2.) they called it "11" meaning there was going to be a 12 and a 13 and 14 and a 15 etc.
3.) WoW has been laughing at them all the way to the bank for so long many of the executives have committed sepaku to remedy their shame.
4.) they have the worst marketing and distribution in the known universe.
5.) the name Final Fantasy is kinda "gey" (or whatever you kids use to replace the word gay now that they outlawed calling gay things gay)
So I won't bore you with the thousand other reasons why WoW works and FFXI doesn't, it doesn't matter. But at the core is this whole idea of it being "11 of ???" and not "the game" and our meal ticket for the next fifteen to twenty years...
The main problem being SE thought they would come up with something better by now... and they can't figure it out. The new game is either too much like XI or too much like WoW or not enough like either one.
They can't win just like we can't win FFXI it's KARMA taking a huge bite out of their collective ***!
Let's face some facts here. 1.) If we put the time we have invested in FFXI as players into a minimum wage job we would all be $100,000.00 richer right now. 2.) We are too lazy to start doing that now even after figuring that staggering fact out. 3.) at some point SE will probably go bankrupt, they will cut the power to the servers and everything but the RL friendships we have gained in and our memories of FFXI will be lost forever.
This is all you get. For all your countless hours sweating away in your favorite chair staring at the screen. Are you ready?
/my electronic hand reaching across the atmosphere to rest on your shoulder and tell you, I know that feel bro, just let it go...
There you go. Now you can be like me the rest of your life, pumping quarter after quarter into video games to watch the lights blink or go out there and be somebody! You know either way kid there's nothing at the end but a cold box in the hard ground. I don't think you even get a credit roll with music. I rely heavily on, and strongly endorse alcohol to get through...
But what the hell do I know! Nothing! Perhaps there are new and wonderful things just beyond the horizon I can't see becasue I am old and need new peepers. I'm sure you'll be fine /backslap
How long will I hold a grudge against SE? Probably forever!!! It's been 24 years and I am still mad at Faxanadu for not coming out with a sequel I could use my mantra on...those lazy ***!
And so in closing I would like to wish you, a warm welcome to the League of Unextrodinary Old Vidya Game Playing Codgers! Which your post made you a member of! /fanfare /little plastic confetti popper noise /single balloon floats halfway to the ceiling and then glides sadly back to the floor
The whiskey is over there in NI in the medicine cabinet....
/fanfare peters out and trails off
Damnit, now I got the music for that stuck in my head. Good game though. A lot of NES games used passcodes instead of saves, used to love hacking those.
Valefor.Omnys
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1759
By Valefor.Omnys 2013-05-02 14:35:52
yeah, the shift from "if you don't dedicate yourself to making an R/E for (whatever job you happen to be asking questions about) you are lazy and unworthy of consideration" to "haha, look at these clowns all mad because the time went down the drain" is fascinating if not totally surprising
I hope you're being sarcastic. Of course people will take the chance to snipe back.
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-05-02 14:36:28
So now accepting the change of direction of the game indicates low self-worth. That's rich.
no
belittling those hurt to some degree by embracing the former direction of the game when you yourself used to belittle those who did not embrace it is REALLY indicative of low self-worth
it shows nothing so much as an inability to define and articulate what you actually want out of life; instead, you have been content to spend ten years allowing a video game to define it for you and are willing to debase and degrade everything in which you once found value within 48 hours of that game telling you to do so
that is sad as ***, bro
[+]
By Otomis 2013-05-02 14:38:11
Ragnarok.Returner said: »I think most player base can agree on this: you can make super new armors and super accessories, just don't touch our REM, we will do anything to upgrade it but don't make them useless. I am not sure why, but there is something more to the weapons than any other slots.
It is because Relics, and by extension Mythics, represented a milestone for players. My friend took 6 years to finish his Mythic!
The work on his mythic is equal to my son's entire life.
In one stroke, Matsui said "FU_K YOU and YOUR 6 YEARS."
EDIT: I didn't do a Mythic, and I did an MBA, got promoted from a middle manager to a VP at work, got married, had kids. All that time my friend was investing in a weapon he, and many others, thought would be worth it in the end because anything that is so damn hard to obtain and rare, should come with some lasting intrinsic value.
Otherwise we've all been scammed.
Sounds like your friend learned a valuable life lesson.
Not sure just because someone makes relic/mythics/emmpy to 99 they have no life. after playing 10 years now, my girls have grown up healthy and happy, honor role, model students, sports the whole 9 yards: I would say we did well to raiser them. I own a small company and also do contract work for larger companies. We have I guess what most would call the American dream (I am first generation American); A nice little house a couple reliable cars, no massive debt, saving in the bank, security and safety for our family. Just because you play a game does not mean you are some unproductive member of society.
[+]
By Blazed1979 2013-05-02 14:39:58
So now accepting the change of direction of the game indicates low self-worth. That's rich. It is indeed. Not rational.
But that is an accurate representation of the people who have been vocal for years about the need to posses completed R/E/Ms and are now saying 'lol it wasn't worth it'.
It is pretty much saying their time "wasn't worth it" or their time was so cheap who the hell cares. How else would you interpret it?
| 04-26-2013 12:52 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team |  |
| | I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.
What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.
In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.
For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.
Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event. | |
| 05-09-2013 10:15 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator |  |
| | Matsui: Follow up on Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin Weapons
Hello, it's Matsui. Thank you for all of your opinions about Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (hereafter, RMEC). They were very helpful.
After reading all of the varied opinions, we have decided that rather than unlocking the weapon skills specific to each weapon, a reworking of RME weapons would be more effective (for coin weapons, more information will be provided later, but we plan to allow these to unlock the dedicated weapon skills).
I have written and reorganized this in various ways and it has become quite lengthy with examples. After you have gotten a chance to look over it, please let us know if you have any further opinions.
Content Level
We received many questions about the parameters of Adoulin equipment. Because this is an important part in order to be able to understand the reworking of RME so you can provide your opinion, please allow me to repeat the explanation for content level and growth in Seekers of Adoulin.
In Adoulin, the basic design is a repeated play cycle where players become stronger and stronger as they align themselves with equipment obtained from challenging content which, in turn, allows them to take on even more challenging content.
By aligning themselves with this equipment, players will continue to grow even without leveling up.
The content level of Adoulin content is set as follows:
[[Info below is much better formatted in a table on the original post.]]
20: Delve (Boss Monsters) (Current)
17: Wildskeeper Reive (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
14: Delve NMs (Tier 2) (Current)
13: Skirmish (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
11: Delve NMs (Tier 1) (Current)
6-9: Colonization / Lair Reives (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
7: Wildskeeper Reive (Current)
6: Skirmish (Current)
1-5: Colonization/Lair Reives (Current)
The strength of the equipment that can be obtained, rather than the level of the equipment, will be dependent on the content level. The equipment to be added later in Adoulin will of course be equippable at level 99, but the level of the equipment parameters would be even higher to match the content level (for example, similar to what level 110 or 120 equipment might look like).
While the strength of the monsters which appear is determined to match the content level, in order to fill out the hierarchy between content to some extent, we have designed monsters of variable strength. The parameters of the equipment that can be obtained in Adoulin is set by determining the parameters that would be necessary to compete with those monsters.
The level of current and planned content is set to minimize the gaps between content level, but we may also insert additional intermediate content if the jump between levels remains too high.
In some cases, content variations will cause content to cover multiple levels. We also plan to enhance the amount of content available horizontally at individual levels, rather than just vertically over the content level range.
The content in the next version update will be added with this in mind.
Referencing the "next version update" items above, it will be possible to add new colonization and lair reive equipment purchasable for Bayld in the level 6~9 range (which currently includes Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives). In addition, we will be inserting new content at levels 13 and 17.
Also, one part of smoothing out the content level will be adjusted in a maintenance to be carried out of the end of this week: we will be adding a fixed probability to obtain the items needed to enter Skirmishes (Simulacrum Segments) from Lair and Colonization Reives. (This adjustment is unrelated to the current rules associated with coalition assignments, gathering, and Soul Pyres.)
By making this adjustment, the assumed progression will be:
1. First, take on lair and colonization reives.
2. As a result of those battles, obtain Simulacrum Segments.
3. Combine the segments in order to enter Skirmishes.
Reworking RMEC
Please excuse my lengthy explanation above. I'll now return to the topic at hand.
First off, since it is necessary for the development staff to further consider the implementation, we cannot guarantee the timeframe as far as whether it will be included in the next version update.
Regarding the types of parameters that would be reworked, special abilities such as Aftermath and Afterglow will remain, while parameters such as the DMG rating, attack, and accuracy will be set to match the content level post-rework.
Since the parameters will be reworked to become aligned with high content difficulty, we do not intend to rework it in small intervals such as with the previous method of Trial of the Magians.
Prior to now, RME were considered the strongest weapons, so I think there will need to be some change to this viewpoint. For those who have RME, you may not require the other weapons, but there now be a choice among other comparable weapons.
If you are worried about how these weapons will be able to be used, for example, against Delve boss monsters, here are some parameters which we are looking at for the reworking. This is just for RME one-handed swords as an example:
Excalibur
DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
to
DMG:121 Delay:233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
Burtgang
DMG:73 Delay:264 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
to
DMG:131 Delay:264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Almace
DMG:70 Delay:224 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
to
DMG:114 Delay:224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Since coin weapons were originally just intended to be used for Empyrean weapon skills, based on the concept, I believe that instead of reworking them, they can be used to open the dedicated weapon skills (with certain level and job restrictions). We are currently considering the adjustment procedures necessary for this..
In conclusion
I've gone on for a while, so considering the reworking for level 99 Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons as well as the unlocking of dedicated weapon skills via Coin weapons, please let us know your opinions. We will read through your thoughts one by one to make sure we understand your point of view.
Note that this is a large departure from the original plan. Considering the feasibility of scheduling this change, the development may take some time.
I apologize for keeping you waiting on my response.
Thanks in advance!
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 05-09-2013 2:19 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons
Matsui here.
Thank you all so much for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes weapons. It has helped out tremendously.
After reading over all of your feedback, instead of continuing the growth of these weapons by unlocking the weapon skills that are tied to each of the weapons, I feel it would be better to perform a revamp on RME weapons. (Regarding Walk of Echoes weapons, I will talk about this below, but they will be involved with unlocking the specialized weapon skills.)
I've been reworking a lot, and writing it all up, but it seems the post turned out rather lengthy, so once you have been able to read through it all and digest it we'd love to hear your feedback.
Content Level
We've received a lot of questions about the stats on Adoulin equipment, and I'd like to once again explain about growth and content levels in Seekers of Adoulin as this is a critical aspect in order to receive feedback on the revamps for RME weapons.
The content in Adoulin has been designed with a repeating play-cycle where you challenge content that you are able to at that moment in time, gather equipment, become stronger, and then take on higher tier content which will allow you to gather even stronger equipment.
It's through the procurement of equipment that will allow players to grow and level up.
We've established content levels for Adoulin content as a means to objectively display difficulty benchmarks. The below is a concrete illustration of these content levels.
| 20 |
|
Delve (Boss monsters) |
|
|
| 19 |
|
|
|
|
| 18 |
|
|
|
|
| 17 |
|
|
|
New Additions to Wildskeeper Reives |
| 16 |
|
|
|
|
| 15 |
|
|
|
|
| 14 |
|
Delve (NM group 2) |
|
|
| 13 |
|
|
|
New additions to Skirmish |
| 12 |
|
|
|
|
| 11 |
|
Delve (NM group 1) |
|
|
| 10 |
|
|
|
|
| 9 |
|
|
|
New additions to Colonization/Lair Reives |
| 8 |
|
|
|
| 7 |
|
Wildskeeper Reives |
|
| 6 |
|
Skirmish |
|
| 5 |
|
Colonization/Lair Reives |
|
|
| 4 |
|
|
|
| 3 |
|
|
|
| 2 |
|
|
|
| 1 |
|
|
|
| Content Level |
|
Up to April 2013 |
|
Next version update (currently adjusting) |
|
Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).
The strength of the monsters that will be introduced are matched to that of the content level, but since there is somewhat of a solidified hierarchy between content, it's been setup so that the strength can be felt with even one level difference in content level. Oppositely, the parameters on Adoulin equipment have been calculated and set in order to deal with these monsters.
Fundamentally we will be making it so that the content level for content to come in the future continues to become higher, but there may be cases where we fill in areas where there is a large jump in content level as needed.
Also, in order to make it so there are various types of content sprawled across a single content level, we are supplementing it with content variations. We've also designed plans to enable resting periods where we will expand laterally instead of vertically, because players may get burnt out going full steam ahead.
In the next version update we will be adding content focusing on filling in the gaps as well as supplementing with content variation.
In the above chart, please look at the “Next version update (currently adjusting)” column. For content levels 6-9 (Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reives), we will be adding equipment appropriate for these content levels that can be exchanged for Bayld along with new Colonization and Lair Reives. Additionally, we will be filling in content for levels 13 and 17.
For those players who are already able to take on Skirmish, Wildskeeper Reives, and Delve at this point in time, it will not be absolutely necessary to challenge this content, but we will be making the above adjustments in case you want to increase your success rate, or are feeling that the current situation is still a bit tough.
Also, as a plan to resolve the issue where Skirmish is not really connecting the content as was planned, we will be undergoing maintenance at the end of this week and making it so statue segments can be obtained from Colonization and Lair Reives at a set rate. (These adjustments are separate from the rules associated with obtaining these items via Coalition Assignments, HELM, and Soul Pyres.)
By performing these adjustments we envision the below flow:
Challenge Colonization and Lair Reives
Obtain statue segments by participating in these reives
Challenge Skirmish with the parts you have obtained
Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.
To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.
In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.
While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.
However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.
I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.
With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:
Excalibur
DMG: 73 Delay: 233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
Burtgang
DMG: 73 Delay: 264 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
Almace
DMG: 70 Delay: 224 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.
In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.
I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.
My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.
I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.
Thank you all very much. | |
|
|
