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Matsui: "Don't throw away your R/M/E weapons yet"
 Leviathan.Draylo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2013-05-02 12:30:47
The fights do get dragged out sometimes... There has to be some mechanic to them though imo.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-02 12:33:12
anybody unwilling to pay that would be a damn fool
come on you know there would be people complaining on the OFs about how people are just leeching gear with gil instead of learning to play their job in delve
and how they refuse to pay for a weakening item and will just continue swinging their hoarfrost blade with pride and principle
[+]
 Cerberus.Detzu
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 869
By Cerberus.Detzu 2013-05-02 12:33:54
Game developing isn't a democratic process. The plans for the game are becoming more and more clear, especially with this last update. Customer input only goes so far, especially with a company as stubborn as SE. RME holders will get their crumb thrown to them eventually, but there appears to be little room for old gear in this new content.
The development of any company is not democratic. But as a customer you have your word to say.
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 Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-05-02 12:35:12
Why would you stop doing legion? Getting super weapons will make legion much more fun and farmable and accessable.
For anyone without a LS with enough manpower, legion won't be worth doing. Everyday when I log on I can see maybe 3 ppl isn't afk nor doing anything else, and 2 out of 3 probably don't even have AF3+2.
Even with super weapon out, farming legion isn't really doable for majority.
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Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-02 12:36:48
Why would you stop doing legion? Getting super weapons will make legion much more fun and farmable and accessable.
For anyone without a LS with enough manpower, legion won't be worth doing. Everyday when I log on I can see maybe 3 ppl isn't afk nor doing anything else, and 2 out of 3 probably don't even have AF3+2.
Even with super weapon out, farming legion isn't really doable for majority.
and why would you bother anyway when they've made their stance on old content staunchly clear
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By macsdf1 2013-05-02 12:38:08
Ragnarok.Returner said: »Lakshmi.Snozeberry said: »This game is here for entertainment, your return on investment was the time you got to play with said weapon, and if it was only recent, it wouldn't be 200+ hours unless it was your choice to make it so. Mythic owners are the only ones getting really shafted here.
What I'm saying is it shouldn't just *poof* best weapon. Give me a trial to make it better than the new stuff, and I'll gladly do that.
You can have that trial, soon as Delve/Ahable weapons are more difficult to obtain than they are currently. Till then, nope, 99 owners shouldn't have to do anything to have the weapon be increased, they've already done more just getting to the 75 R/M or 85 empy then the Delve/AH owner ever did.
You knew what you were making when you made them. You used them for their purpose. Now something better comes along and you refuse to obtain it.
Let's say you mowed 500 lawns to finally be able to afford your PS2, then played the hell out of it. Then bam a PS3 comes along and you magically want them to upgrade it for you? Course not, you gotta go out and mow some more lawns and get that new PS3 to play those new games. Oh hey the PS3 can play your old games too.
If you just completed your 99 a day before expansion hit then I feel sorry for you, but ***happens. The rest of us who have had our 99s, we used them time and time again and got good use out of em. We also used them to kill the new stuff, to get our new weapons. And when it's time to upgrade them again, we'll happily put the effort into it.
You are again missing the point. If PS3 came out, I want all my game saved data carried over to my PS3 from my old PS2. I will still buy PS3, similar to how I will still do my deed to get the 30,000 points, but can I have it in the form of relic upgrade instead of a new ugly looking weapon that look nothing unique nothing special no sentimental value and no background story behind?
So copy your saved games over to the ps3. But those save games won't magically make all your stats 999 and let you break the dmg cap of 9999. Bismarck.Snprphnx said: » I dunno why you are complaining about AH'able weapons lol. Do you see any for sale? The recipe's for these new weapons actually seem pretty simple from what I've seen so.... yeah! Sure, then why aren't there any for sale? Cause you can't make them without the parts you get from killing the mega boss... That, plus most linkshells that can clear the bosses more than likely wont be selling them. They will collect and have weapons crafted for LS members. That would mean those new weapons will be inaccessible for a large portion of players anyway. So it's obvious the REM owners aren't just bothered with the fact that their hard work is insulted, but it clearly will increase the gap between elite and playerbase.
yeah, i joined a pug for mastop last night filled with People Whom I Know Have Been Doing This For A While and it is pretty clear to me that anybody saying ANYBODY CAN GET THESE NEW WEAPONS ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS KILL AN NM ONCE hasn't actually tried any delve yet
a group with plenty of gear and 0 dead weight as far as one can assure for a pug (aegis and ochain PLDs tanking, melees were one 99 mandau and 6 SAM/THFs, 3 WHMs and everybody else was a SMN or COR) took an hour to get hiom to 71% and then wiped in about 2 minutes when he raged
NM's rage in 15 minutes not 1 hour. And there's your problem, you were using 99s instead of the new reive weapons! had no bards either! Did you DD actually hit it, or were they just miss miss missing?
By macsdf1 2013-05-02 12:39:34
You need to do legion for ormolu ingots...
And if you can beat t4-t5s, you surely can do legion.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-05-02 12:39:45
inb4 delve displacers
although to be fair 500k to "weaken" a delve nm would be more than fair considering what it opens access to
Lol yeah right.
Matsui didn't preempt this update with "suck less, go do Salvage II and gear up you gimps" before Delve to cheapen it Voidwatch style with weakeners.
This is Legion II: Learn2Play brought to you by Seekers of Adoulin.
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Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-05-02 12:40:31
You need to do legion for ormolu ingots...
And if you can beat t4-t5s, you surely can do legion.
You can do Voidwatch for those ingots if you REALLY want them and bank abjurations at the same.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-02 12:43:27
You need to do legion for ormolu ingots...
And if you can beat t4-t5s, you surely can do legion.
I would bet large sums of gil that within two updates Ormolu ingots will become available from Adoulin content
[+]
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-05-02 12:44:11
I was just digging around in my Mog Resort and found an Ormolu Ore!
WOWTHANKSSE
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-05-02 12:45:37
anybody unwilling to pay that would be a damn fool
come on you know there would be people complaining on the OFs about how people are just leeching gear with gil instead of learning to play their job in delve
and how they refuse to pay for a weakening item and will just continue swinging their hoarfrost blade with pride and principle
...that they never would have gotten if half the 50-odd ig kills it took to get it to drop had not been expedited through clusters
Quote: NM's rage in 15 minutes not 1 hour.
was a different rage, from the look of it. the 15 minute rage was bearable but the 71% was a holocaust. i wouldn't have thought it was any different if multiple other people were not reporting 71% explosions
but again, we found out he can be slept....?
Quote: And there's your problem, you were using 99s instead of the new reive weapons!
don't know if you mean wildkeeper stuff (again, damage was not the problem for us even though this ***takes way too long) but these aren't reives
the music is normal adoulin combat music
Quote: had no bards either! we actually did have two bards, now that i think about it
funny story: the bard did not initially know mastop can reflect debuffs, so i almost died when he put a SV requiem on me :D
Quote: Did you DD actually hit it, or were they just miss miss missing?
THF and 6xSAM/THF; we were just doing SATA wses and staying out of range
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-05-02 12:58:24
You knew what you were making when you made them. You used them for their purpose. Now something better comes along and you refuse to obtain it.
Let's say you mowed 500 lawns to finally be able to afford your PS2, then played the hell out of it. Then bam a PS3 comes along and you magically want them to upgrade it for you? Course not, you gotta go out and mow some more lawns and get that new PS3 to play those new games. Oh hey the PS3 can play your old games too.
If you just completed your 99 a day before expansion hit then I feel sorry for you, but ***happens. The rest of us who have had our 99s, we used them time and time again and got good use out of em. We also used them to kill the new stuff, to get our new weapons. And when it's time to upgrade them again, we'll happily put the effort into it.
Lol that's a pretty bad example, if I buy PS2 I buy it to play PS2 games, so when PS3 comes out it wouldn't bother me because I can still use my PS2 to play PS2 game. 1st generation PS3 is expensive anyways.
Now if 1 day I want a PS3, I go buy PS3 when price drops. So instead of spending $599 on a PS3 to play both PS2 and PS3 games, I spend $250 on PS2 and $250 on newer/cheaper PS3 with no PS2 support, the result is better.
The better example would be, I heard learning JP can be an advantage in my career(on top of loving manga/anime and suc), and JPs promised their language would exist for another 100 years, so I invest 200hr of my time on a $10000 worth of JP lesson. After 1 year of lesson I finally mastered JP. Then one day JP declared their country no longer uses JP and would use Spanish, they completely erased JP language on Earth, and deleted/burned all existing manga/anime and made it into Spanish. And suddenly Spanish became next hot thing, and able to speak Spanish gives an advantage in my career. So the JP I've learned is completely useless, and I just wasted 200hr $10000 worth of money when I could have spent on learning Spanish and get advantage out of it.
I don't know about you, maybe you have fun keep learning new languages and wasn't planning to use the new language for future careers, but I don't. I spent my money on this game to get R/E/M and to use it, not to toss it. If you want me to do new content, I can think 1000 ways to make me do it. But just don't touch my R/E/M or else why would I pay for this game?
By Quetzacoatl 2013-05-02 13:02:33
Thank goodness I wasn't the only one thinking that these new Skirmish and Delve weapons would make Legion actually EASIER
I've still yet to do that crap and get up to Hall of Mul, but for now i'm not really complaining. I've got a bit more stuff under Adoulin Content to work on anyways (NNI, Salvage 2, Little more VW, etc.)
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By Blazed1979 2013-05-02 13:20:50
Camate's last response on the OF about R/E/Ms sounded promising. The dev team and Matsui are more than likely blown back by the potency of the rage on their forums.
SE'S WAY OF PERPETUATING FAIL:
1. They rarely admit they've made a mistake.
2. When they do admit things are ***, they add "but we intended it to be ***"
3. It takes ages for them to admit they've made a mistake, and its ***, and when they say they're going to do something about it, it takes even longer! (Caitsith/atomos lol)
4. When said changes and adjustments do eventually take place, they are mediocre.
5. After they've fixed things, they break them again.
And someone please tell me why the hell is Matsui talking about low-man content now of all times lol?
Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2013-05-02 13:23:53
So... How about that Jodi Arias trial?
Gaiz? ........GAIZ??
Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2013-05-02 13:23:53
Camate's last response on the OF about R/E/Ms sounded promising. ?
Can you quote it or post a link?
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Snozeberry 2013-05-02 13:25:50
Quote: I understand the delicacy of this discussion and everyone's feelings on the matter; however, please keep in mind that Producer Matsui has indicated that all of this is no where near finalized at this point and they are still in the early discussion phase.
With that said, there have been quite a few posts that we have had to remove due to inappropriate language, so please keep this in mind when making a reply to this thread.
As always, I will be doing all that I can so that your opinions are delivered to the development team and rest assured that your voice is being heard.
By Blazed1979 2013-05-02 13:26:06
Beaten to it.
The icing on the cake is his response to
Quote: "I have the following questions/comments regarding the unlocking of these special weapon skills, and I'm sure a lot of others are thinking the same:
- Relics: There are gaps in a lot of the weapon skills for these weapons. For example, there is no special advantage to Knights of Round or Scourge, while on the other hand unlocking Catastrophe or Coronach would lead to the destruction of balance.
- Mythic: These weapon skills can already be unlocked through the quest "Unlocking a Myth."
- Empyrean/Coin: How will these weapon skills be differentiated for the two weapons?"
with
Quote: "I was thinking this question would pop up.
I apologize, but unfortunately I am unable to answer anything at this point in time. "
Knew this question would come up, gave it some thought but didn't think of any responses.
In other words "I hate my job, I hate you all, I hate this game, Wtf didn't I become a carpenter"
[+]
Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2013-05-02 13:27:22
Lakshmi.Snozeberry said: »Quote: I understand the delicacy of this discussion and everyone's feelings on the matter; however, please keep in mind that Producer Matsui has indicated that all of this is no where near finalized at this point and they are still in the early discussion phase.
With that said, there have been quite a few posts that we have had to remove due to inappropriate language, so please keep this in mind when making a reply to this thread.
As always, I will be doing all that I can so that your opinions are delivered to the development team and rest assured that your voice is being heard.
All I got from it was that he seemed overworked.
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By Blazed1979 2013-05-02 13:32:59
Quote: I understand the delicacy of this discussion and everyone's feelings on the matter; however, please keep in mind that Producer Matsui has indicated that all of this is no where near finalized at this point and they are still in the early discussion phase.
Sounds like they're begging for another chance to me. Them are *** words.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2013-05-02 13:38:23
Dear Ash:
I remember playing a game called Faxanadu....
Try to imagine a game that doesn't have autosave or save points. Every time you wanted to stop playing and save, you were given a code called a "mantra" which you would later enter back in...
This game kicked the *** off of pumping quarter after quarter into games like Pac-Man and Yie Ar Kung-Fu at the arcade because you could play forever and it never cost anything!
My friend and I spent an incalculable amount of time beating this game (because we are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE) and of course, like all games before FFXI, at the end the game, you win and it just rolls credits...
and I remember thinking... wouldn't it be nice if they came out with a sequel and you could enter the Final Mantra into it and you would get something cool for all the effort you sunk into the previous game....
Jump forward a couple decades and the closest they ever came (that I am aware of) is a crappy weapon for beating the prequel in Ratchet and Clank 2.
Well at least they did something....
Some people have figured out a way to get something tangible out of playing video games (RMTs as an example) I am not that smart, I have never been able to figure it out.
But I have spent the last thirty + years wishing and dreaming and hoping for these strange things because that's what I do I don't actually do anything, I just pretend to do things in video games.
Call me lazy, call me what you will...
Anyway, cue the FFXI music! So I get this game used in the discount bin at the store in like 2006/7 or something and the guy that works at the counter says it's his friend who was a blm and he has seen it, it's cool and everything, but nobody plays any more.... because it's online only, which I didn't understand at all...
So after several minutes hours of him trying to explain it to me, I gave up and bought it anyways....
And I don't know what to expect or what the hell I am doing but along the way my family and I meet some cool people that helped us along this journey. However, I have never expected anything to come out of playing this game other than the joy of playing it at the time. Wished/hoped/prayed for? sure, but never expected.
I knew eventually we would beat this game and then move on to the next one.... which of course brings us to the problem.
Now, there are five fundamental flaws FFXI will probably never beat without a time machine.
1.) The game has no end
2.) they called it "11" meaning there was going to be a 12 and a 13 and 14 and a 15 etc.
3.) WoW has been laughing at them all the way to the bank for so long many of the executives have committed sepaku to remedy their shame.
4.) they have the worst marketing and distribution in the known universe.
5.) the name Final Fantasy is kinda "gey" (or whatever you kids use to replace the word gay now that they outlawed calling gay things gay)
So I won't bore you with the thousand other reasons why WoW works and FFXI doesn't, it doesn't matter. But at the core is this whole idea of it being "11 of ???" and not "the game" and our meal ticket for the next fifteen to twenty years...
The main problem being SE thought they would come up with something better by now... and they can't figure it out. The new game is either too much like XI or too much like WoW or not enough like either one.
They can't win just like we can't win FFXI it's KARMA taking a huge bite out of their collective ***!
Let's face some facts here. 1.) If we put the time we have invested in FFXI as players into a minimum wage job we would all be $100,000.00 richer right now. 2.) We are too lazy to start doing that now even after figuring that staggering fact out. 3.) at some point SE will probably go bankrupt, they will cut the power to the servers and everything but the RL friendships we have gained in and our memories of FFXI will be lost forever.
This is all you get. For all your countless hours sweating away in your favorite chair staring at the screen. Are you ready?
/my electronic hand reaching across the atmosphere to rest on your shoulder and tell you, I know that feel bro, just let it go...
There you go. Now you can be like me the rest of your life, pumping quarter after quarter into video games to watch the lights blink or go out there and be somebody! You know either way kid there's nothing at the end but a cold box in the hard ground. I don't think you even get a credit roll with music. I rely heavily on, and strongly endorse alcohol to get through...
But what the hell do I know! Nothing! Perhaps there are new and wonderful things just beyond the horizon I can't see becasue I am old and need new peepers. I'm sure you'll be fine /backslap
How long will I hold a grudge against SE? Probably forever!!! It's been 24 years and I am still mad at Faxanadu for not coming out with a sequel I could use my mantra on...those lazy ***!
And so in closing I would like to wish you, a warm welcome to the League of Unextrodinary Old Vidya Game Playing Codgers! Which your post made you a member of! /fanfare /little plastic confetti popper noise /single balloon floats halfway to the ceiling and then glides sadly back to the floor
The whiskey is over there in NI in the medicine cabinet....
/fanfare peters out and trails off
 Asura.Ina
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2013-05-02 13:38:38
Beaten to it.
The icing on the cake is his response to
Quote: "I have the following questions/comments regarding the unlocking of these special weapon skills, and I'm sure a lot of others are thinking the same:
- Relics: There are gaps in a lot of the weapon skills for these weapons. For example, there is no special advantage to Knights of Round or Scourge, while on the other hand unlocking Catastrophe or Coronach would lead to the destruction of balance.
- Mythic: These weapon skills can already be unlocked through the quest "Unlocking a Myth."
- Empyrean/Coin: How will these weapon skills be differentiated for the two weapons?"
with
Quote: "I was thinking this question would pop up.
I apologize, but unfortunately I am unable to answer anything at this point in time. "
Knew this question would come up, gave it some thought but didn't think of any responses.
In other words "I hate my job, I hate you all, I hate this game, Wtf didn't I become a carpenter" I have to admit I feel for the guy since he is probably feeling some heat from uptop as well (last I heard they were doing a full review of all the companies projects). At the same time I think it would be better if he just admitted they have no real plan atm for them. That he keeps saying "I don't know if we can do it or not" or some variation just does more damage to my confidence in them than if they said nothing personally.
I almost feel like hes been trying to emulate Yoshi from over in XIV who has always been very casual and open with the player base and it's gone over great but it's not working out so well here.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-02 13:40:02
He doesn't want to address the RME situation because it goes against the idea of a gear progression reset. I thought we had entered a stage of acceptance already. People seem to be stuck in the Anger/Bargaining stages.
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Bismarck.Magnuss
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 28615
By Bismarck.Magnuss 2013-05-02 13:41:53
And the bitter geriatric members of AH weigh in!
By Blazed1979 2013-05-02 13:45:57
Beaten to it.
The icing on the cake is his response to
Quote: "I have the following questions/comments regarding the unlocking of these special weapon skills, and I'm sure a lot of others are thinking the same:
- Relics: There are gaps in a lot of the weapon skills for these weapons. For example, there is no special advantage to Knights of Round or Scourge, while on the other hand unlocking Catastrophe or Coronach would lead to the destruction of balance.
- Mythic: These weapon skills can already be unlocked through the quest "Unlocking a Myth."
- Empyrean/Coin: How will these weapon skills be differentiated for the two weapons?"
with
Quote: "I was thinking this question would pop up.
I apologize, but unfortunately I am unable to answer anything at this point in time. "
Knew this question would come up, gave it some thought but didn't think of any responses.
In other words "I hate my job, I hate you all, I hate this game, Wtf didn't I become a carpenter" I have to admit I feel for the guy since he is probably feeling some heat from uptop as well (last I heard they were doing a full review of all the companies projects). At the same time I think it would be better if he just admitted they have no real plan atm for them. That he keeps saying "I don't know if we can do it or not" or some variation just does more damage to my confidence in them than if they said nothing personally.
I almost feel like hes been trying to emulate Yoshi from over in XIV who has always been very casual and open with the player base and it's gone over great but it's not working out so well here.[/quote]
Yoshi has more resources due to a lot more being on the line with XIV. But he also has the disadvantage of working within the unknown.
XIV failed on release. Any improvement was noteworthy because it was so bad to start with.
XI was actually GREAT for a long time - and they have a huge database of what the subscribers like, dislike, ignore and participate in. They know we all pretty much work towards relics/mythics/empyreans.
So what do they do with that info?
They toss it aside and make some drastic changes and venture into the unknown.
They could have easily provided new content that tied into and complimented old content. Instead they effectively rendered 10 years worth of server space, development and gameplay obso-feking-leet.
[+]
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-05-02 13:50:14
Quote: Some people have figured out a way to get something tangible out of playing video games (RMTs as an example) I am not that smart, I have never been able to figure it out.
hey, totally straight-up tip from one old nerd to another:
get a recumbent exercise bike
the recumbency is pro because yuou can easily maintain balance with free hands during your workout and when you're playing video games the way you probably play them if you're still playing ffxi, that can mean hours
this past weekend the monitor on mine told me i burned 3500 calories playing wild arms v and let's be honest that game kind of blows
EDIT: actually that kind of goes for everybody; I'd rather not oversell it but the four most significant positive changes I've made in the past 3 years of my life have been:
1) getting married
2) quitting smoking
3) buying a house
4) getting an exercise bike and spending between an hour or two on it a day playing video games in my basement
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Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-05-02 13:51:36
All I got from it was that he seemed overworked.
Matsui better not catch the same virus that resulted in Tanaka being put out to pasture.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-02 13:52:43
Making RMEs was the only long-term activity available before the release of Adoulin. You can't draw conclusions from it's popularity when it was part of a small subset of content that was actually worth doing. What else were people gonna do (aside from not play anymore which many people did)?
Valefor.Omnys
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1759
By Valefor.Omnys 2013-05-02 13:54:44
To be fair.. I think people were getting a bit tired of a lack of new content. Abyssea recylced the zones, Voidwatch recycled a few mobs, then began recycling it's own mobs. Neo Limbus, Neo Einherjar, Salvage II, Arch Dynamis, NNI. They had become quite laze. And of course, Wotg recycled zones. Of course, dynamis did too, but that was cool the first time.
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| 04-26-2013 12:52 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team |  |
| | I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.
What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.
In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.
For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.
Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event. | |
| 05-09-2013 10:15 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator |  |
| | Matsui: Follow up on Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin Weapons
Hello, it's Matsui. Thank you for all of your opinions about Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (hereafter, RMEC). They were very helpful.
After reading all of the varied opinions, we have decided that rather than unlocking the weapon skills specific to each weapon, a reworking of RME weapons would be more effective (for coin weapons, more information will be provided later, but we plan to allow these to unlock the dedicated weapon skills).
I have written and reorganized this in various ways and it has become quite lengthy with examples. After you have gotten a chance to look over it, please let us know if you have any further opinions.
Content Level
We received many questions about the parameters of Adoulin equipment. Because this is an important part in order to be able to understand the reworking of RME so you can provide your opinion, please allow me to repeat the explanation for content level and growth in Seekers of Adoulin.
In Adoulin, the basic design is a repeated play cycle where players become stronger and stronger as they align themselves with equipment obtained from challenging content which, in turn, allows them to take on even more challenging content.
By aligning themselves with this equipment, players will continue to grow even without leveling up.
The content level of Adoulin content is set as follows:
[[Info below is much better formatted in a table on the original post.]]
20: Delve (Boss Monsters) (Current)
17: Wildskeeper Reive (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
14: Delve NMs (Tier 2) (Current)
13: Skirmish (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
11: Delve NMs (Tier 1) (Current)
6-9: Colonization / Lair Reives (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
7: Wildskeeper Reive (Current)
6: Skirmish (Current)
1-5: Colonization/Lair Reives (Current)
The strength of the equipment that can be obtained, rather than the level of the equipment, will be dependent on the content level. The equipment to be added later in Adoulin will of course be equippable at level 99, but the level of the equipment parameters would be even higher to match the content level (for example, similar to what level 110 or 120 equipment might look like).
While the strength of the monsters which appear is determined to match the content level, in order to fill out the hierarchy between content to some extent, we have designed monsters of variable strength. The parameters of the equipment that can be obtained in Adoulin is set by determining the parameters that would be necessary to compete with those monsters.
The level of current and planned content is set to minimize the gaps between content level, but we may also insert additional intermediate content if the jump between levels remains too high.
In some cases, content variations will cause content to cover multiple levels. We also plan to enhance the amount of content available horizontally at individual levels, rather than just vertically over the content level range.
The content in the next version update will be added with this in mind.
Referencing the "next version update" items above, it will be possible to add new colonization and lair reive equipment purchasable for Bayld in the level 6~9 range (which currently includes Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives). In addition, we will be inserting new content at levels 13 and 17.
Also, one part of smoothing out the content level will be adjusted in a maintenance to be carried out of the end of this week: we will be adding a fixed probability to obtain the items needed to enter Skirmishes (Simulacrum Segments) from Lair and Colonization Reives. (This adjustment is unrelated to the current rules associated with coalition assignments, gathering, and Soul Pyres.)
By making this adjustment, the assumed progression will be:
1. First, take on lair and colonization reives.
2. As a result of those battles, obtain Simulacrum Segments.
3. Combine the segments in order to enter Skirmishes.
Reworking RMEC
Please excuse my lengthy explanation above. I'll now return to the topic at hand.
First off, since it is necessary for the development staff to further consider the implementation, we cannot guarantee the timeframe as far as whether it will be included in the next version update.
Regarding the types of parameters that would be reworked, special abilities such as Aftermath and Afterglow will remain, while parameters such as the DMG rating, attack, and accuracy will be set to match the content level post-rework.
Since the parameters will be reworked to become aligned with high content difficulty, we do not intend to rework it in small intervals such as with the previous method of Trial of the Magians.
Prior to now, RME were considered the strongest weapons, so I think there will need to be some change to this viewpoint. For those who have RME, you may not require the other weapons, but there now be a choice among other comparable weapons.
If you are worried about how these weapons will be able to be used, for example, against Delve boss monsters, here are some parameters which we are looking at for the reworking. This is just for RME one-handed swords as an example:
Excalibur
DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
to
DMG:121 Delay:233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
Burtgang
DMG:73 Delay:264 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
to
DMG:131 Delay:264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Almace
DMG:70 Delay:224 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
to
DMG:114 Delay:224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Since coin weapons were originally just intended to be used for Empyrean weapon skills, based on the concept, I believe that instead of reworking them, they can be used to open the dedicated weapon skills (with certain level and job restrictions). We are currently considering the adjustment procedures necessary for this..
In conclusion
I've gone on for a while, so considering the reworking for level 99 Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons as well as the unlocking of dedicated weapon skills via Coin weapons, please let us know your opinions. We will read through your thoughts one by one to make sure we understand your point of view.
Note that this is a large departure from the original plan. Considering the feasibility of scheduling this change, the development may take some time.
I apologize for keeping you waiting on my response.
Thanks in advance!
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 05-09-2013 2:19 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons
Matsui here.
Thank you all so much for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes weapons. It has helped out tremendously.
After reading over all of your feedback, instead of continuing the growth of these weapons by unlocking the weapon skills that are tied to each of the weapons, I feel it would be better to perform a revamp on RME weapons. (Regarding Walk of Echoes weapons, I will talk about this below, but they will be involved with unlocking the specialized weapon skills.)
I've been reworking a lot, and writing it all up, but it seems the post turned out rather lengthy, so once you have been able to read through it all and digest it we'd love to hear your feedback.
Content Level
We've received a lot of questions about the stats on Adoulin equipment, and I'd like to once again explain about growth and content levels in Seekers of Adoulin as this is a critical aspect in order to receive feedback on the revamps for RME weapons.
The content in Adoulin has been designed with a repeating play-cycle where you challenge content that you are able to at that moment in time, gather equipment, become stronger, and then take on higher tier content which will allow you to gather even stronger equipment.
It's through the procurement of equipment that will allow players to grow and level up.
We've established content levels for Adoulin content as a means to objectively display difficulty benchmarks. The below is a concrete illustration of these content levels.
| 20 |
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Delve (Boss monsters) |
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| 19 |
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| 18 |
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| 17 |
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New Additions to Wildskeeper Reives |
| 16 |
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| 15 |
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| 14 |
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Delve (NM group 2) |
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| 13 |
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New additions to Skirmish |
| 12 |
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| 11 |
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Delve (NM group 1) |
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| 10 |
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| 9 |
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New additions to Colonization/Lair Reives |
| 8 |
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| 7 |
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Wildskeeper Reives |
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| 6 |
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Skirmish |
|
| 5 |
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Colonization/Lair Reives |
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| 4 |
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| 3 |
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| 2 |
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| 1 |
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| Content Level |
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Up to April 2013 |
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Next version update (currently adjusting) |
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Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).
The strength of the monsters that will be introduced are matched to that of the content level, but since there is somewhat of a solidified hierarchy between content, it's been setup so that the strength can be felt with even one level difference in content level. Oppositely, the parameters on Adoulin equipment have been calculated and set in order to deal with these monsters.
Fundamentally we will be making it so that the content level for content to come in the future continues to become higher, but there may be cases where we fill in areas where there is a large jump in content level as needed.
Also, in order to make it so there are various types of content sprawled across a single content level, we are supplementing it with content variations. We've also designed plans to enable resting periods where we will expand laterally instead of vertically, because players may get burnt out going full steam ahead.
In the next version update we will be adding content focusing on filling in the gaps as well as supplementing with content variation.
In the above chart, please look at the “Next version update (currently adjusting)” column. For content levels 6-9 (Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reives), we will be adding equipment appropriate for these content levels that can be exchanged for Bayld along with new Colonization and Lair Reives. Additionally, we will be filling in content for levels 13 and 17.
For those players who are already able to take on Skirmish, Wildskeeper Reives, and Delve at this point in time, it will not be absolutely necessary to challenge this content, but we will be making the above adjustments in case you want to increase your success rate, or are feeling that the current situation is still a bit tough.
Also, as a plan to resolve the issue where Skirmish is not really connecting the content as was planned, we will be undergoing maintenance at the end of this week and making it so statue segments can be obtained from Colonization and Lair Reives at a set rate. (These adjustments are separate from the rules associated with obtaining these items via Coalition Assignments, HELM, and Soul Pyres.)
By performing these adjustments we envision the below flow:
Challenge Colonization and Lair Reives
Obtain statue segments by participating in these reives
Challenge Skirmish with the parts you have obtained
Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.
To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.
In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.
While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.
However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.
I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.
With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:
Excalibur
DMG: 73 Delay: 233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
Burtgang
DMG: 73 Delay: 264 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
Almace
DMG: 70 Delay: 224 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.
In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.
I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.
My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.
I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.
Thank you all very much. | |
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