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Matsui: "Don't throw away your R/M/E weapons yet"
 Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-05-02 10:40:51
Lakshmi.Snozeberry said: »This just reaks of a sense of entitlement that the current generation keeps thinking that work they've done in the past somehow means they are guaranteed something in the future. Your work in the past was to get something in the past. They aren't taking anything away from you. Except, I'm the older generation and this makes you sound like a *** idiot. I will gladly elucidate for you. I understand that relics are easy now or some people had an easier time making them but here goes: I spent 2 hours farming dynamis (poorly) everyday getting ~200 currency. That's 153 hours of my time spent farming up apoc (JUST FOR 75). Then the trials. I think it's a conservative estimate to say another 40-50 hours for the trials to 99. I understand the concept of the value of time/money is hard to grasp in mommy's basement when the best thing you have to do with an hour is beat off, but my time is actually pretty valueable. Ask a college student what an hour costs them. If one of my customers wants to buy an hour of my time they're paying $50/hour. In 203 hours I'm fairly certain I could begin to learn another language, or re-build an engine (or in theory go buy some mountain dew, play 3 rounds of COD and talk some ***on an online forum). Either way 200+ hours is a huge chunk of time to invest into ANYTHING (let alone a *** game they charge me for). If you took my working value/hour and applied it to this it would cost you $ 10,150 to have me farm you an Apocalypse on the clock. That's a bit extruded obviously but time IS valuable. When I've only got an average of 700,800 hours on this planet (and only half of those are "good") I kind of expect a return on my investment. Now you're telling me that someone can get something that shits all over my investment with (assuming luck) less than a days worth of work? Yeah *** that. This isn't WOW. This isn't another MMO. The concept of "everything will be obsolete eventually" was never understood here. If I ever thought this ***would be EASILY replaced I wouldn't have spent the time on it... simple as that. I also am NOT required to play this game. I do pay for it (in case you weren't aware). I don't use my parents credit card to pay for this account. Being that it is a commodity, or product, it is their job to please me.... in essence I am entitled to demand what I want from this game because they charge me to play it. They stop fulfilling their side of the bargain and guess what: Everyone with their HURPEDY DURPEDY, CHANGE R GUD MAN. I THINK WE SHUD GET 10 MIN WORK WEAPON BECUZ WOW DOZ IT is *** ignorant. If I wanted that I would have played a different MMO. I vote with my dollar. That's my entitlement. If you change my *** Coke, and I don't like it; I go buy pepsi (or just drink water, etc). It's not their "whim" to make this game. It is their JOB to make content that pleases people and draws them business. A large portion of the playerbase saying "*** it, im out" is NOT good for continuing to work. If you think new people are going to run out and buy FFXI after 13 years because of 300 D weapons, you're beyond help. tl;dr keep the majority happy and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. You're not going to attract new players after a decede being like WOW because if they wanted that they'd go play WOW instead long ago.
you should copy/pasta that to the OF man.
 Phoenix.KojoForum Moderator
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2013-05-02 10:40:54
Lakshmi.Snozeberry said: »This just reaks of a sense of entitlement that the current generation keeps thinking that work they've done in the past somehow means they are guaranteed something in the future. Your work in the past was to get something in the past. They aren't taking anything away from you.
Except, I'm the older generation and this makes you sound like a *** idiot. I will gladly elucidate for you.
I understand that relics are easy now or some people had an easier time making them but here goes:
I spent 2 hours farming dynamis (poorly) everyday getting ~200 currency. That's 153 hours of my time spent farming up apoc (JUST FOR 75).
Then the trials. I think it's a conservative estimate to say another 40-50 hours for the trials to 99.
I understand the concept of the value of time/money is hard to grasp in mommy's basement when the best thing you have to do with an hour is beat off, but my time is actually pretty valueable. Ask a college student what an hour costs them. If one of my customers wants to buy an hour of my time they're paying $50/hour. In 203 hours I'm fairly certain I could begin to learn another language, or re-build an engine (or in theory go buy some mountain dew, play 3 rounds of COD and talk some ***on an online forum).
Either way 200+ hours is a huge chunk of time to invest into ANYTHING (let alone a *** game they charge me for). If you took my working value/hour and applied it to this it would cost you $ 10,150 to have me farm you an Apocalypse on the clock. That's a bit extruded obviously but time IS valuable. When I've only got an average of 700,800 hours on this planet (and only half of those are "good") I kind of expect a return on my investment.
Now you're telling me that someone can get something that shits all over my investment with (assuming luck) less than a days worth of work? Yeah *** that. This isn't WOW. This isn't another MMO. The concept of "everything will be obsolete eventually" was never understood here. If I ever thought this ***would be EASILY replaced I wouldn't have spent the time on it... simple as that.
I also am NOT required to play this game. I do pay for it (in case you weren't aware). I don't use my parents credit card to pay for this account. Being that it is a commodity, or product, it is their job to please me.... in essence I am entitled to demand what I want from this game because they charge me to play it. They stop fulfilling their side of the bargain and guess what:
Everyone with their HURPEDY DURPEDY, CHANGE R GUD MAN. I THINK WE SHUD GET 10 MIN WORK WEAPON BECUZ WOW DOZ IT is *** ignorant. If I wanted that I would have played a different MMO. I vote with my dollar. That's my entitlement. If you change my *** Coke, and I don't like it; I go buy pepsi (or just drink water, etc).
It's not their "whim" to make this game. It is their JOB to make content that pleases people and draws them business. A large portion of the playerbase saying "*** it, im out" is NOT good for continuing to work. If you think new people are going to run out and buy FFXI after 13 years because of 300 D weapons, you're beyond help.
tl;dr keep the majority happy and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. You're not going to attract new players after a decede being like WOW because if they wanted that they'd go play WOW instead long ago.
Take all of my likes, every *** one of them!
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Snozeberry 2013-05-02 10:41:04
You know what the worst part of this whole thing really is? SE wildly changing the structure of the game has everyone so agitated, that people are starting to miss Tanaka.
And that's never ok. SHAME ON YOU, SQUARE-ENIX.
Agreed. Their response to the situation is far worse than the situation itself.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-05-02 10:42:47
There has been approx ~24.2% inflation since 2003 though it's actual impact really depends on where you live. Real pay raises don't happen when your in the same position, you need to either move up to management or get hired on by another company.
Anyhow the reason this is a huge issue is that RME's were designed to be super weapons or at least weapons with high DPS and some utility. For SE to casually replace them with such easily obtained alternatives (serious 200+ DMG great axes) is insanity. In the past people have asked SE about lowering the 30,000 alex required for Mythics or the 1500 / 60 items for Emps and SE's response was that those weapons were meant to be the best and that's why their keeping the requirements high. I don't mind better gear being offered as nothing in the past was particularly hard to obtain and most upgrades are gradual marginal ones. These weapons would be like creating a heavy body that looks like this.
Def:200
Attack +150
Accuracy +150
TA +25
Store TP +25
STR/DEX/VIT +50
Haste +10%
And making it relatively easy to obtain.
I'm really hoping they do something like this.
I really REALLY hope they don't, not for another year or two at least.
There needs to be a gradual increase in capability not a dramatic one. That's easily 90% of the issue here, these would of been good weapons to make a couple of years from now, but not right now. And here is the truth behind it.
In FFXI if something is created that is clearly superior to another item then it becomes mandatory to obtains it, it's not optional. Players with 99 RME will now have to put them on a maniquin and obtain the DMG:200+ weapons. For many people those RMEs have been in existence less then two years, most for less then one year. That is not good game design.
Bismarck.Kelhor
Administrator
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 509
By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-05-02 10:44:08
99 owners shouldn't have to do anything to have the weapon be increased
Nah, trials are fine. Besides, nothing they give us is going to be as bad as two thousand Knights of Round killshots for +1 DMG, so really, I'm ready for anything.
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 298
By Siren.Piccollo 2013-05-02 10:44:25
i think honestly the vocal minority are the people who are moaning most and hoenstly they are the sort of people to have spare time and be able to convince people to work their *** of to help them get their 99 R/E/M weapons and from my perspective this new update is a breath of fresh air in a stagnant game that revolves around getting into a linkshell and kissing up to some *** who thinks they are better than you so you can hope to get some shiney crap that will make them think better of you.
simply put the future is here GROW UP !!
[+]
 Asura.Ina
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2013-05-02 10:44:43
People said the same ***when abyssea first came out. In time they adjusted and got the new stuff. Some did, the games population shrank noticeably however.
[+]
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 298
By Siren.Piccollo 2013-05-02 10:45:45
99 owners shouldn't have to do anything to have the weapon be increased
Nah, trials are fine. Besides, nothing they give us is going to be as bad as two thousand Knights of Round killshots for +1 DMG, so really, I'm ready for anything.
heres hoping for 100,000 umbral marrows then^
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 96
By Siren.Taruina 2013-05-02 10:46:08
People said the same ***when abyssea first came out. In time they adjusted and got the new stuff. Some did, the games population shrank noticeably however.
Holy ***, can you please stop about made-up abyssea numbers and drink some bleach.
thnx
Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2013-05-02 10:47:22
99 owners shouldn't have to do anything to have the weapon be increased
Nah, trials are fine. Besides, nothing they give us is going to be as bad as two thousand Knights of Round killshots for +1 DMG, so really, I'm ready for anything.
*** this lol.
Ofcourse tons of people quit over the orginal relic trials. (hello 12,000 kill shots outside of abyssea and you couldn't team up)
Asura.Ina
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2013-05-02 10:47:29
People said the same ***when abyssea first came out. In time they adjusted and got the new stuff. Some did, the games population shrank noticeably however.
Holy ***, can you please stop about made-up abyssea numbers and drink some bleach.
thnx No way bleach is gross. And given that there are half as many servers as there were and they are on level or less than populations before it's hardly made up.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-05-02 10:48:38
I dunno why you are complaining about AH'able weapons lol. Do you see any for sale?
The recipe's for these new weapons actually seem pretty simple from what I've seen so.... yeah!
[+]
 Asura.Tamoa
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1341
By Asura.Tamoa 2013-05-02 10:48:42
Lakshmi.Snozeberry said: »This just reaks of a sense of entitlement that the current generation keeps thinking that work they've done in the past somehow means they are guaranteed something in the future. Your work in the past was to get something in the past. They aren't taking anything away from you. Except, I'm the older generation and this makes you sound like a *** idiot. I will gladly elucidate for you. I understand that relics are easy now or some people had an easier time making them but here goes: I spent 2 hours farming dynamis (poorly) everyday getting ~200 currency. That's 153 hours of my time spent farming up apoc (JUST FOR 75). Then the trials. I think it's a conservative estimate to say another 40-50 hours for the trials to 99. I understand the concept of the value of time/money is hard to grasp in mommy's basement when the best thing you have to do with an hour is beat off, but my time is actually pretty valueable. Ask a college student what an hour costs them. If one of my customers wants to buy an hour of my time they're paying $50/hour. In 203 hours I'm fairly certain I could begin to learn another language, or re-build an engine (or in theory go buy some mountain dew, play 3 rounds of COD and talk some ***on an online forum). Either way 200+ hours is a huge chunk of time to invest into ANYTHING (let alone a *** game they charge me for). If you took my working value/hour and applied it to this it would cost you $ 10,150 to have me farm you an Apocalypse on the clock. That's a bit extruded obviously but time IS valuable. When I've only got an average of 700,800 hours on this planet (and only half of those are "good") I kind of expect a return on my investment. Now you're telling me that someone can get something that shits all over my investment with (assuming luck) less than a days worth of work? Yeah *** that. This isn't WOW. This isn't another MMO. The concept of "everything will be obsolete eventually" was never understood here. If I ever thought this ***would be EASILY replaced I wouldn't have spent the time on it... simple as that. I also am NOT required to play this game. I do pay for it (in case you weren't aware). I don't use my parents credit card to pay for this account. Being that it is a commodity, or product, it is their job to please me.... in essence I am entitled to demand what I want from this game because they charge me to play it. They stop fulfilling their side of the bargain and guess what: Everyone with their HURPEDY DURPEDY, CHANGE R GUD MAN. I THINK WE SHUD GET 10 MIN WORK WEAPON BECUZ WOW DOZ IT is *** ignorant. If I wanted that I would have played a different MMO. I vote with my dollar. That's my entitlement. If you change my *** Coke, and I don't like it; I go buy pepsi (or just drink water, etc). It's not their "whim" to make this game. It is their JOB to make content that pleases people and draws them business. A large portion of the playerbase saying "*** it, im out" is NOT good for continuing to work. If you think new people are going to run out and buy FFXI after 13 years because of 300 D weapons, you're beyond help. tl;dr keep the majority happy and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. You're not going to attract new players after a decede being like WOW because if they wanted that they'd go play WOW instead long ago.
you should copy/pasta that to the OF man.
Careful with that lol, I was temp banned from the OF yesterday for spelling out bs but replacing the h and the i with *s. The mods are SUPER sensitive over there at the moment.
By Connavarr 2013-05-02 10:48:55
99 owners shouldn't have to do anything to have the weapon be increased
Nah, trials are fine. Besides, nothing they give us is going to be as bad as two thousand Knights of Round killshots for +1 DMG, so really, I'm ready for anything.
No, not when I can go the AH and just buy a weapon that shits on R/M/E's. Someone a page or two ago mentioned that they didn't really put much effort in at all and almost had enough to get a Delve weapon.
When that disparity it corrected, if it ever is, then a new trial/quest for 99 R/M/E owners is fine. Till then, nope.
And I don't have a 99 R/M/E.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-05-02 10:49:17
99 owners shouldn't have to do anything to have the weapon be increased
Nah, trials are fine. Besides, nothing they give us is going to be as bad as two thousand Knights of Round killshots for +1 DMG, so really, I'm ready for anything.
*** this lol.
Ofcourse tons of people quit over the orginal relic trials. (hello 12,000 kill shots outside of abyssea and you couldn't team up)
Yeah but SE did make the trails to keep the RM's in the same category as most of the new Emps. Also we gained levels back then, that level raise dictated higher gear / stats / ect. Right now there is no level raise, we're not going to 105,110,120 and as such new gear needs to be moderately stronger then old, not game breaking stronger.
Ragnarok.Returner
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 440
By Ragnarok.Returner 2013-05-02 10:51:19
I think alot of ppl are missing the point here on why REM owners are angry. We don't mind putting more work to make our best weapon in the past to be the best weapon right now, just give us that option and we will work on it. The fact that it doesn't seem like that idea is being entertained is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE on SE's part. Make it exactly how you have to get one of those 30,000 point weapon, but instead of using the KI to buy them, let us exchange our KI to upgrade our REM to be on par or slightly better. Again, we don't mind doing the work, but I would rather look at something I work hard to get before to remain part of my everyday game play. Augmented blurple is the best example, it has sentimental value, was outdated, but was given a chance to be great through augment. And even now, it is still one of the best if not the best body option for certain jobs. What the majority of the playing base is asking for is that option to upgrade, never said we mind putting in the work.
[+]
By macsdf1 2013-05-02 10:51:20
Lakshmi.Snozeberry said: »This game is here for entertainment, your return on investment was the time you got to play with said weapon, and if it was only recent, it wouldn't be 200+ hours unless it was your choice to make it so. Mythic owners are the only ones getting really shafted here.
What I'm saying is it shouldn't just *poof* best weapon. Give me a trial to make it better than the new stuff, and I'll gladly do that.
You can have that trial, soon as Delve/Ahable weapons are more difficult to obtain than they are currently. Till then, nope, 99 owners shouldn't have to do anything to have the weapon be increased, they've already done more just getting to the 75 R/M or 85 empy then the Delve/AH owner ever did.
You knew what you were making when you made them. You used them for their purpose. Now something better comes along and you refuse to obtain it.
Let's say you mowed 500 lawns to finally be able to afford your PS2, then played the hell out of it. Then bam a PS3 comes along and you magically want them to upgrade it for you? Course not, you gotta go out and mow some more lawns and get that new PS3 to play those new games. Oh hey the PS3 can play your old games too.
If you just completed your 99 a day before expansion hit then I feel sorry for you, but ***happens. The rest of us who have had our 99s, we used them time and time again and got good use out of em. We also used them to kill the new stuff, to get our new weapons. And when it's time to upgrade them again, we'll happily put the effort into it.
Bismarck.Kelhor
Administrator
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 509
By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-05-02 10:51:32
People said the same ***when abyssea first came out. In time they adjusted and got the new stuff. Some did, the games population shrank noticeably however.
Can we please stop demonizing Abyssea? Abyssea saved the game, even if it had to wildly change it to do so. 75-cap FFXI had already lived WELL past what its shelf life should have been. Without changes on the scale of Abyssea/level cap/etc, the game would have continued to stagnate until it just died.
We'll see if the damage scale changes do the same thing, but you can not deny that the game was getting stale (because you can only side-grade so much).
Honestly, the only thing that's REALLY bothersome about this whole thing is how poorly they are doing at communicating. They had to know it would cause an uproar - why change the universe right before you're on vacation, and can't address concerns?
By macsdf1 2013-05-02 10:53:17
I dunno why you are complaining about AH'able weapons lol. Do you see any for sale?
The recipe's for these new weapons actually seem pretty simple from what I've seen so.... yeah!
Sure, then why aren't there any for sale? Cause you can't make them without the parts you get from killing the mega boss...
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-05-02 10:53:47
Ragnarok.Returner said: »I think alot of ppl are missing the point here on why REM owners are angry. We don't mind putting more work to make our best weapon in the past to be the best weapon right now, just give us that option and we will work on it. The fact that it doesn't seem like that idea is being entertained is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE on SE's part. Make it exactly how you have to get one of those 30,000 point weapon, but instead of using the KI to buy them, let us exchange our KI to upgrade our REM to be on par or slightly better. Again, we don't mind doing the work, but I would rather look at something I work hard to get before to remain part of my everyday game play. Augmented blurple is the best example, it has sentimental value, was outdated, but was given a chance to be great through augment. And even now, it is still one of the best if not the best body option for certain jobs. What the majority of the playing base is asking for is that option to upgrade, never said we mind putting in the work.
This is what most are asking for. The ability for SoA content to be used to increase the power of their RMEs instead of just throwing them away.
Obviously the trolls are out in force, like they always are.
Ragnarok.Ravant
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1441
By Ragnarok.Ravant 2013-05-02 10:54:11
I dunno why you are complaining about AH'able weapons lol. Do you see any for sale?
The recipe's for these new weapons actually seem pretty simple from what I've seen so.... yeah!
350M doesn't sound simple to make :/
 Ragnarok.Zohnax
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 545
By Ragnarok.Zohnax 2013-05-02 10:54:16
I dunno why you are complaining about AH'able weapons lol. Do you see any for sale?
The recipe's for these new weapons actually seem pretty simple from what I've seen so.... yeah!
Sure, then why aren't there any for sale? Cause you can't make them without the parts you get from killing the mega boss... Did you even click the link and look into that bazaar?
 Cerberus.Cahlum
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 268
By Cerberus.Cahlum 2013-05-02 10:55:10
I don't think he actually has it, that is what he wants to sell it for. No Guildwork icon.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-05-02 10:55:50
Lakshmi.Snozeberry said: »This just reaks of a sense of entitlement that the current generation keeps thinking that work they've done in the past somehow means they are guaranteed something in the future. Your work in the past was to get something in the past. They aren't taking anything away from you. Except, I'm the older generation and this makes you sound like a *** idiot. I will gladly elucidate for you. I understand that relics are easy now or some people had an easier time making them but here goes: I spent 2 hours farming dynamis (poorly) everyday getting ~200 currency. That's 153 hours of my time spent farming up apoc (JUST FOR 75). Then the trials. I think it's a conservative estimate to say another 40-50 hours for the trials to 99. I understand the concept of the value of time/money is hard to grasp in mommy's basement when the best thing you have to do with an hour is beat off, but my time is actually pretty valueable. Ask a college student what an hour costs them. If one of my customers wants to buy an hour of my time they're paying $50/hour. In 203 hours I'm fairly certain I could begin to learn another language, or re-build an engine (or in theory go buy some mountain dew, play 3 rounds of COD and talk some ***on an online forum). Either way 200+ hours is a huge chunk of time to invest into ANYTHING (let alone a *** game they charge me for). If you took my working value/hour and applied it to this it would cost you $ 10,150 to have me farm you an Apocalypse on the clock. That's a bit extruded obviously but time IS valuable. When I've only got an average of 700,800 hours on this planet (and only half of those are "good") I kind of expect a return on my investment. Now you're telling me that someone can get something that shits all over my investment with (assuming luck) less than a days worth of work? Yeah *** that. This isn't WOW. This isn't another MMO. The concept of "everything will be obsolete eventually" was never understood here. If I ever thought this ***would be EASILY replaced I wouldn't have spent the time on it... simple as that. I also am NOT required to play this game. I do pay for it (in case you weren't aware). I don't use my parents credit card to pay for this account. Being that it is a commodity, or product, it is their job to please me.... in essence I am entitled to demand what I want from this game because they charge me to play it. They stop fulfilling their side of the bargain and guess what: Everyone with their HURPEDY DURPEDY, CHANGE R GUD MAN. I THINK WE SHUD GET 10 MIN WORK WEAPON BECUZ WOW DOZ IT is *** ignorant. If I wanted that I would have played a different MMO. I vote with my dollar. That's my entitlement. If you change my *** Coke, and I don't like it; I go buy pepsi (or just drink water, etc). It's not their "whim" to make this game. It is their JOB to make content that pleases people and draws them business. A large portion of the playerbase saying "*** it, im out" is NOT good for continuing to work. If you think new people are going to run out and buy FFXI after 13 years because of 300 D weapons, you're beyond help. tl;dr keep the majority happy and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. You're not going to attract new players after a decede being like WOW because if they wanted that they'd go play WOW instead long ago.
you should copy/pasta that to the OF man.
Careful with that lol, I was temp banned from the OF yesterday for spelling out bs but replacing the h and the i with *s. The mods are SUPER sensitive over there at the moment.
I really try not to go there other than that one troll-post about shockwave. I'm really scared I'll "catch" whatever the people there have.
If someone wants to steal it and quote me (or not) or whatever, be my guest XD
Plus, as a working man I really do sympathize. These guys really could give a ***less about this game. "Here make new stuff that people will like for this ancient game coded to work on a POS console... PS we have a new CEO, are abscessing money, and everything you do will be micro analyzed by our human resource department AND the playerbase".
Can you imagine being Matsui? Take the gf to the beach for Golden Week. Nice Dinner, some relaxing, and SUDDENLY YOUR PHONE IS BLOWING UP LIKE ITS FUKUSHIMA II~~~~ lel
He just wants to punch in, punch out and collect a paycheck like any one of us. Poor *** :/
[+]
Bismarck.Kelhor
Administrator
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 509
By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-05-02 10:56:05
I don't think he actually has it, that is what he wants to sell it for. No Guildwork icon.
GW only sees things in your actual bazaar, and he's selling it for more than the game will let you put it in there for.
By Ravenn42 2013-05-02 10:56:13
they've earned it already over the YEARS of effort.
I think people's mindsets haven't adjusted from the days when it really was a lengthy task to complete a legendary. For example:
In 2005-6, I built Excalibur in roughly eighteen months. I probably could have done it faster, but at the time it was still a significant accomplishment (one of the first Excaliburs on Hades! RIP, Hades).
About six months ago, I built Ragnarok in less than a month, because I had taken a break from the game and was late getting on the bandwagon.
If this patch had shown up in 2006, would I have been pissed? Absolutely. Now? It's annoying to me because of the way it's being handled, but something that's buildable in a couple of months doesn't carry the same weight, and if you're putting in the work, it doesn't take years.
I mean, I'd understand mythic owners being mad, especially if they recently completed. But everyone else? You still have a weapon that's got you better suited to get the newer stuff - so use it, and get the newer stuff. If they patch RMEs, awesome. If they don't, then wouldn't you rather get ahead of the curve now, rather than waiting for a patch that may not happen?
I just noticed you were/are Rooks lol. When you said "one of first excaliburs on Hades".
I still remember those runs-can't believe its been 6-7 years.
Didn't even know you still played, since I don't see you on Cerb anymore.
EDIT: the effort one put to get a 75 Relic before level cap increases is far greater than it is today.
can't compare the effort it used to take to get a relic to getting one today. And if anyone does think its the same, they clearly never tried dynamis back in 2005/06.
4 some people it was a lot easier back in the day... Just be a ls leader and make everyone do the work for you......I was in Empire so the people that I knew that had relics back in the day did not earn diddly...
Ragnarok.Ravant
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1441
By Ragnarok.Ravant 2013-05-02 10:56:14
I don't think he actually has it, that is what he wants to sell it for. No Guildwork icon.
He was shouting in game to sell it like 2 days ago.
By Connavarr 2013-05-02 10:56:24
I don't have a problem doing the work to upgrade a 99 R/M/E further. My problem is the ease in which someone can obtain a weapon vastly superior to what a 99 owner has done already.
Add a trial/quest to improve 99 R/M/E's when Delve/AHable weapons are harder to get. Not before.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-05-02 10:56:34
They didn't.
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Lacryma_Sickle
That guy is selling the HQ for 350M. The NQ requires a single delve boss drop. It's a crafting drop too, not even one of the R/EX items.
Bismarck.Snprphnx
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2715
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2013-05-02 10:57:07
I dunno why you are complaining about AH'able weapons lol. Do you see any for sale?
The recipe's for these new weapons actually seem pretty simple from what I've seen so.... yeah!
Sure, then why aren't there any for sale? Cause you can't make them without the parts you get from killing the mega boss...
That, plus most linkshells that can clear the bosses more than likely wont be selling them. They will collect and have weapons crafted for LS members.
| 04-26-2013 12:52 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team |  |
| | I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.
What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.
In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.
For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.
Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event. | |
| 05-09-2013 10:15 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator |  |
| | Matsui: Follow up on Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin Weapons
Hello, it's Matsui. Thank you for all of your opinions about Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (hereafter, RMEC). They were very helpful.
After reading all of the varied opinions, we have decided that rather than unlocking the weapon skills specific to each weapon, a reworking of RME weapons would be more effective (for coin weapons, more information will be provided later, but we plan to allow these to unlock the dedicated weapon skills).
I have written and reorganized this in various ways and it has become quite lengthy with examples. After you have gotten a chance to look over it, please let us know if you have any further opinions.
Content Level
We received many questions about the parameters of Adoulin equipment. Because this is an important part in order to be able to understand the reworking of RME so you can provide your opinion, please allow me to repeat the explanation for content level and growth in Seekers of Adoulin.
In Adoulin, the basic design is a repeated play cycle where players become stronger and stronger as they align themselves with equipment obtained from challenging content which, in turn, allows them to take on even more challenging content.
By aligning themselves with this equipment, players will continue to grow even without leveling up.
The content level of Adoulin content is set as follows:
[[Info below is much better formatted in a table on the original post.]]
20: Delve (Boss Monsters) (Current)
17: Wildskeeper Reive (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
14: Delve NMs (Tier 2) (Current)
13: Skirmish (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
11: Delve NMs (Tier 1) (Current)
6-9: Colonization / Lair Reives (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
7: Wildskeeper Reive (Current)
6: Skirmish (Current)
1-5: Colonization/Lair Reives (Current)
The strength of the equipment that can be obtained, rather than the level of the equipment, will be dependent on the content level. The equipment to be added later in Adoulin will of course be equippable at level 99, but the level of the equipment parameters would be even higher to match the content level (for example, similar to what level 110 or 120 equipment might look like).
While the strength of the monsters which appear is determined to match the content level, in order to fill out the hierarchy between content to some extent, we have designed monsters of variable strength. The parameters of the equipment that can be obtained in Adoulin is set by determining the parameters that would be necessary to compete with those monsters.
The level of current and planned content is set to minimize the gaps between content level, but we may also insert additional intermediate content if the jump between levels remains too high.
In some cases, content variations will cause content to cover multiple levels. We also plan to enhance the amount of content available horizontally at individual levels, rather than just vertically over the content level range.
The content in the next version update will be added with this in mind.
Referencing the "next version update" items above, it will be possible to add new colonization and lair reive equipment purchasable for Bayld in the level 6~9 range (which currently includes Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives). In addition, we will be inserting new content at levels 13 and 17.
Also, one part of smoothing out the content level will be adjusted in a maintenance to be carried out of the end of this week: we will be adding a fixed probability to obtain the items needed to enter Skirmishes (Simulacrum Segments) from Lair and Colonization Reives. (This adjustment is unrelated to the current rules associated with coalition assignments, gathering, and Soul Pyres.)
By making this adjustment, the assumed progression will be:
1. First, take on lair and colonization reives.
2. As a result of those battles, obtain Simulacrum Segments.
3. Combine the segments in order to enter Skirmishes.
Reworking RMEC
Please excuse my lengthy explanation above. I'll now return to the topic at hand.
First off, since it is necessary for the development staff to further consider the implementation, we cannot guarantee the timeframe as far as whether it will be included in the next version update.
Regarding the types of parameters that would be reworked, special abilities such as Aftermath and Afterglow will remain, while parameters such as the DMG rating, attack, and accuracy will be set to match the content level post-rework.
Since the parameters will be reworked to become aligned with high content difficulty, we do not intend to rework it in small intervals such as with the previous method of Trial of the Magians.
Prior to now, RME were considered the strongest weapons, so I think there will need to be some change to this viewpoint. For those who have RME, you may not require the other weapons, but there now be a choice among other comparable weapons.
If you are worried about how these weapons will be able to be used, for example, against Delve boss monsters, here are some parameters which we are looking at for the reworking. This is just for RME one-handed swords as an example:
Excalibur
DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
to
DMG:121 Delay:233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
Burtgang
DMG:73 Delay:264 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
to
DMG:131 Delay:264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Almace
DMG:70 Delay:224 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
to
DMG:114 Delay:224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Since coin weapons were originally just intended to be used for Empyrean weapon skills, based on the concept, I believe that instead of reworking them, they can be used to open the dedicated weapon skills (with certain level and job restrictions). We are currently considering the adjustment procedures necessary for this..
In conclusion
I've gone on for a while, so considering the reworking for level 99 Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons as well as the unlocking of dedicated weapon skills via Coin weapons, please let us know your opinions. We will read through your thoughts one by one to make sure we understand your point of view.
Note that this is a large departure from the original plan. Considering the feasibility of scheduling this change, the development may take some time.
I apologize for keeping you waiting on my response.
Thanks in advance!
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 05-09-2013 2:19 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons
Matsui here.
Thank you all so much for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes weapons. It has helped out tremendously.
After reading over all of your feedback, instead of continuing the growth of these weapons by unlocking the weapon skills that are tied to each of the weapons, I feel it would be better to perform a revamp on RME weapons. (Regarding Walk of Echoes weapons, I will talk about this below, but they will be involved with unlocking the specialized weapon skills.)
I've been reworking a lot, and writing it all up, but it seems the post turned out rather lengthy, so once you have been able to read through it all and digest it we'd love to hear your feedback.
Content Level
We've received a lot of questions about the stats on Adoulin equipment, and I'd like to once again explain about growth and content levels in Seekers of Adoulin as this is a critical aspect in order to receive feedback on the revamps for RME weapons.
The content in Adoulin has been designed with a repeating play-cycle where you challenge content that you are able to at that moment in time, gather equipment, become stronger, and then take on higher tier content which will allow you to gather even stronger equipment.
It's through the procurement of equipment that will allow players to grow and level up.
We've established content levels for Adoulin content as a means to objectively display difficulty benchmarks. The below is a concrete illustration of these content levels.
| 20 |
|
Delve (Boss monsters) |
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| 19 |
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| 18 |
|
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|
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| 17 |
|
|
|
New Additions to Wildskeeper Reives |
| 16 |
|
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| 15 |
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| 14 |
|
Delve (NM group 2) |
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| 13 |
|
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New additions to Skirmish |
| 12 |
|
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|
| 11 |
|
Delve (NM group 1) |
|
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| 10 |
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|
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| 9 |
|
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New additions to Colonization/Lair Reives |
| 8 |
|
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|
| 7 |
|
Wildskeeper Reives |
|
| 6 |
|
Skirmish |
|
| 5 |
|
Colonization/Lair Reives |
|
|
| 4 |
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| 3 |
|
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| 2 |
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| 1 |
|
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| Content Level |
|
Up to April 2013 |
|
Next version update (currently adjusting) |
|
Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).
The strength of the monsters that will be introduced are matched to that of the content level, but since there is somewhat of a solidified hierarchy between content, it's been setup so that the strength can be felt with even one level difference in content level. Oppositely, the parameters on Adoulin equipment have been calculated and set in order to deal with these monsters.
Fundamentally we will be making it so that the content level for content to come in the future continues to become higher, but there may be cases where we fill in areas where there is a large jump in content level as needed.
Also, in order to make it so there are various types of content sprawled across a single content level, we are supplementing it with content variations. We've also designed plans to enable resting periods where we will expand laterally instead of vertically, because players may get burnt out going full steam ahead.
In the next version update we will be adding content focusing on filling in the gaps as well as supplementing with content variation.
In the above chart, please look at the “Next version update (currently adjusting)” column. For content levels 6-9 (Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reives), we will be adding equipment appropriate for these content levels that can be exchanged for Bayld along with new Colonization and Lair Reives. Additionally, we will be filling in content for levels 13 and 17.
For those players who are already able to take on Skirmish, Wildskeeper Reives, and Delve at this point in time, it will not be absolutely necessary to challenge this content, but we will be making the above adjustments in case you want to increase your success rate, or are feeling that the current situation is still a bit tough.
Also, as a plan to resolve the issue where Skirmish is not really connecting the content as was planned, we will be undergoing maintenance at the end of this week and making it so statue segments can be obtained from Colonization and Lair Reives at a set rate. (These adjustments are separate from the rules associated with obtaining these items via Coalition Assignments, HELM, and Soul Pyres.)
By performing these adjustments we envision the below flow:
Challenge Colonization and Lair Reives
Obtain statue segments by participating in these reives
Challenge Skirmish with the parts you have obtained
Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.
To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.
In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.
While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.
However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.
I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.
With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:
Excalibur
DMG: 73 Delay: 233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
Burtgang
DMG: 73 Delay: 264 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
Almace
DMG: 70 Delay: 224 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.
In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.
I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.
My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.
I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.
Thank you all very much. | |
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