Matsui: "Don't Throw Away Your R/M/E Weapons Yet"

Are the responses to it about the same as they are here?

There are craftable weapons that beat the Skirmish options. Assuming the mats for them aren't like 2005 Shining Cloth, it stands to reason the NQ versions of those weapons, at least, will be reasonably priced.

They could also add something skirmish related later on.

For example when new delve ***comes out "get the new pop items from new skirmish tiers,which require old to be finished + all existing delve kills to access the new things"

First question that was asked was about mythics and coin weapons. Matsui's response to it was basically "I thought someone would ask this, but I apologize because I can't answer that right now."

JPs are no less knowledgable about how useless RME WS unlocking would be so lots of answers talking about how it wouldn't help, and how it'd still feel like a waste of the weapon they worked on, and then of course there's those eternal optimists who say "I look forward to hearing more!"


Basically this.

the post was basically a "plz dont unsuscribe"

If the update to relics/empyreans/mythics is shite, it will actually make me happy. I'll tell you why - because if you're like any other multi- 99relic/mythic/empyrean owner you've probably been the driving force in your groups momentum. You've probably been the one who comes up with strats, organizes events and motivates people to do content rather than just sit around in jeuno or waste their time on BS. You probably have a lot of people who depend on you to get ***done, and you're respected for it.

If and when their R/E/M update makes them slightly less attractive than these new weapons, you will probably move on. I know I already have. And those lil *** who want you to be brought back down to their level of mediocrity will go back to standing in Adoulin with their heads up their *** complaining of how hard everything is.

In the mean time, I'll be on a beach in Thailand somewhere drinking a cocktail with a few call girls while you enjoy the scenery in Adoulin.

No craftable swords... yet anyway. I'm very curious as to why that is. I guess the content the materials will come from is missing currently?

I suppose one thing to consider is that these materials will be rare and only from delve and the weapons they make outclass anything that isn't from delve so the entire player base needs them. I think even the NQ is going to be pretty damn high for a good long time pending the rarity of the crafting items anyway.

So, thinking about how "trading in" such weapons could work in a way that wouldn't completely invalidate the effort put in:

Trade in Ragnarok 99 -> Obtain permanent KI "Champion of the Greatsword" or some such

KI gives you non-damage/delay bonuses from using Rag - the ODD, the crit rate, and access to Scourge with a damage bonus, essentially turning EVERY greatsword into Ragnarok.

For mythics, getting the bonuses from it as traits? I don't know how that would work for the damage mythics, but for the support mythics (Yagrush, Burtgang, Carn) that could work.

Empyreans? Get the Empy aftermath from EVERY WS, in addition to the WS with damage bonus, etc?

I don't know. I need more caffeine.

FTFY

You never know.

IMO The mistake they made was that they have released the 90+ or 95+ upgrades prior to SoA release.

R/E/M and even the new w/e relic SoA will bring are supposed to be the best weapons in the game and on par with each others, however, to be the most useful in different expansions.

^ This was how SE saw things until 3 years ago when ***hit the fan with Abyssea.

Makes too much sense for SE to consider.

It doesn't really make any sense at all, all that'd do is force people to make RME for every job they want to play otherwise they will be gimp. It's a bad idea unless you only like playing one job (or you are jinjo/rafaras/etc)

right! because R/E/Ms weren't the best weapons before SoA and they never made sense back then.

are you saying you don't understand the difference between only being allowed to wear one weapon and getting KIs that give you permanent bonuses to every weapon of that class

Permanent KI/Buffs - like in Abyssea or in Voidwatch - the last few years of content? that kinda KI?

Kincard: I get what you're saying, but that was sort of the case before, anyway - that's the problem with having a whole class of weapons that sat on top for so long. Because really, your choice boils down to:

- If you keep them relevant, you're forced to have them to be considered top-shelf (inb4 Hahava shouts that only want R/M/E).

- If you invalidate them, you piss off a HUGE percentage of your "lifer" customer base, because you completely changed the gearing paradigm on them.

SE will have to pick their poison at some point.

yeah because using freezebite on an NM so i can get an atma is the same thing as farming dynamis/einherjar/voidwatch for 9 months so i can get all 3 weapons


I don't know. It was a common complaint before SoA that the gap between REMs and normal weapons were too large. When they released the first few weapons of SoA and nobody did Skirmish yet, most people mathed it and found that nothing was really getting outdated, but a lot of nice weapons for people that didn't have REMs was a welcome thing.

Then they raised the D on all the Naakual weapons and Skirmish weapons started flowing in, and that's when the concern started. In response to this SE decided to add a bunch of weapons that curbstomped every damn thing in the game. Before this there wasn't nearly this strong of a response to it.

About 150 odd pages of collective rage across a few boards suggests that they already have.

and killing one NM that drops a weapon that in effect shits on all that effort makes so much more sense.

Yeah, the Skirmish weapons, which closed the gap, but didn't really beat out RME (except for Tlap?) raised some eyebrows, but I thought most considered them a positive change.

This D247 AH weapon stuff changed the scene entirely, though.

I don't recall how many of the Skirmish weapons were beating RME, but IIRC most of them were either really close or just beating them by a small margin, so Matsui says not to toss them because he'll make them better.

Then he releases D250 weapons off the AH so it's kinda sending mixed messages, yeah.

I mean, the part of me that spent lots of time getting my REM weapons doesn't mind your idea too much Kelhor, it's just that it actually goes back to the pre-Adoulin problem, just even bigger- now for every job you like playing, you need to get all 3 of RME otherwise you'll be missing a lot of useful stats. Kinda makes job balance go all bonkers when you consider some of the shittier mythics, too.

Lol... If they do that it's the final nail in the coffin for me as far as playing this game goes.

With the KI idea, I see more potential problems in it than the benefits. It would be rather difficult to warrant giving only one series of weapons that KI bonus. If you give it to relics only, many jobs get screwed out of an awesome upgrade since they don't have relic jobs, if you be fair and give them to all r/e/m then you still get people who get screwed cause they don't have one, two or any of those weapons AND then those who do have to deal with getting all 3 to be the best even if you will never actually use any of them. That's a crap ton of work, especially if you have to get 99. I mean I like the idea but it presents some challenges.

It's like that girl that calls you in the middle of the night saying she's thinking about you so much and then when you ask her out she says we'll see, I don't know, I don't have time I'm so busy...

I guess the alternative to be more returning-player friendly is that they do the KI idea but they also reduce the requirements to get a REM to like 1/10 of what it used to be. I'm pretty sure that would still make plenty of people buttdevastated.

1k alex, 5k ichor and tokens for a mythich, alright!

You know, though, on further thought - the KI version actually makes some previously dubious relics more interesting.

I mean, Gungnir still has problems because of the way its Defense Down screws with Angon, but weapons like Kikoku and Bravura are actually more appealing if they're just buffs for other, better weapons.

I think where we are all going wrong is trying to suggest fixes in one stroke.

We could just have the weapon skills and their aftermath transferred to one of the new weapons. Meld your R/E/M to a weapon and gain the weapon skill + after math only.
Make it reversible.

Some tweaking and capping would have to be done for crit based ws's like Victory Smite, CDC and Uko's fury.

For balance's sake introduce some new weaponskills that are leagues ahead of anything else DMG wise.

That way relic holders could choose between unloading tp for aftermath effects or using new ws's for pure dmg. As these new ws's would be available to all, none R/E/M holder's wouldn't be irrelevant, but not as versatile as R/E/Ms.


EDIT: where the hell have I gone... nvm, just Increase the bloody base dmg on 99 R/E/Ms ffs!

What really is infuriating is that these new OP weapons have terrible models.