Matsui: "Don't Throw Away Your R/M/E Weapons Yet"

There is no way they will magically change to 120. It would break the game. They designed the game so you level up your gear and as you get stronger you can kill harder stuff.

If everyone magically logged in and we all had super weapons, the bosses would all be just farm mode fodder. Why not auto upgrade our salvage2 armor to +2 with better stats than existing stuff too.

it's easier to understand if you drop the idea that your relics are special..

they have gear ranging up to level 99, originally

they add gear up to level 120

people who had the best ***at 99 are upset, so they bump the best level 99 weapons to 120 to give them what they want

if you didn't even master the weapon at 99, why should they bump it to 120 for you?

(i still wouldn't be shocked if this was just the initial bump and they end up ditching relics as soon as level 130 weapons come into play)

Yeh, true say to the last few posts, I see it from that point of view, and yes thats what I expected to happen, like my last post says, I hink you see now where my argument as coming from, still going for 99 of corse but hopefully wont be kicked back over night :) Happy farming all round to all :P

I wouldn't say they'd ditch REMs for higher iLvl weapons, but perhaps they'll have us do something time consuming again like feed 20,000RP to get to iLvl 130

While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.

So this wouldn't be a one shot increase?

Damnit thread....die!

r/e/m are being fixed at 99...we don't need to go any further...

Posting in a thread hoping it will die is pretty counter-productive

I'm still not sure what he means by that. If he thinks a one shot enhancement to match them to this Delve tier is going to be enough to make REM holders happy when the next Delve tier comes out, he's probably in for a shock.

He may actually mean that they're just going to do one-shot quests/upgrades with each new Delve tier or something, though. I can't really tell.

From what I gather all Delve bosses will be sitting at the same content level (120) and the other Delve NMs + Skirmish zones will be filling in the gaps between Skirmish 1 and Delve Bosses

Matsui has done everything possible to indicate he wants R/M/E left in the dust, as they are extremely problematic to his gear progression model.

This will almost certainly be a one time increase, so start working on Delve weapons.

If that's the case it should all be rainbows. We definitely need more content between Delve and Skirmish though.

Now to see if Voidwatch will be continued by people after revamp update. It's what I'm worried about if I have to get my Masa 99. It's difficult to even get a VW run going.

If its a 1-time increase, he'll receive just as large an outcry next time. And if anyone voted with their wallet before, my guess is that they'd do it again.

Skirmish is actually a very fun event!

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until you get lost and start running in circles for 40 minutes.

I'm not sure why he thinks that, to be honest. All he has to do is have augments for them using drops from Delve bosses (or whatever new content tiers bring) that are rare and they snap right in to the gear progression model.

Fixed!

I honestly wouldn't expect as much* rage from round two, seeing as it's not going to be a complete surprise next time. People who are going to quit over it already have.


* = and by as much, I mean any.

I'd say go with amano since acc has become an issue as of late.

But yes I agree, VW does need to be addressed (maybe even salvage). Although I don't think this change will take place anytime soon.

Well, Matsui did buckle. If people voted with their wallets about the RMEs, since he rescinded, chances are they came back.

Naakual Delve weapons > r/m/e >= delve/skirmishII > delve I > skirmish/naakual > old stuff.

This is how it should be imo!

Poor Skirmish. I'll try it one day out of curiosity.

I have a strong dejà-vu..but then again this thread has been going in circles for 100 pages now.

Distracted by cloud, this got missed for a few pages and I got sad.

(Also I changed the phrasing of the last line to match the song's phrasing and added some more notes!)

"afterglow is disproportionately harder than 99"

Y'know... I'd completely forgotten about that. It's a perfectly valid point: the ULTIMATE weapons really should be the Afterglow weapons. Should give those weapons stats far superior to anything else, better than even than the proposed future NM drops. After all, they require the ultimate amount of effort to acquire, and thus should have the ultimate amount of reward.

That said... a lot of people seem to keep going on about iLvl without really understanding that FFXI item level requirements don't really correspond to iLvl at all.

For example: back in the 75 day? PCC. +10 Acc available at level 33. Does that make PCC effectively iLvl 33 gear? Hell no. It's high-level gear with an unusually low level requirement. Sniper rings, similar point: the actual stats on the gear are a lot higher than the level requirement. Heck, Hagun is level 72, yet was competitive with the 75 relic Amano.

Even today, you see people using the Twilight Mail/Helm set for the reraise, or Twilight Torque for the -DT - they might have level 90 requirements, but that doesn't mean they are iLvl 90 gear.

90 Masa is comparable to 95 Amano, and both are superior to the 99 WoE weapon. Another clear-cut example of proof that iLvl and level requirements are not the same.

Empys were introduced as the 'poor man's Relic'. They were introduced so that casuals CAN have a weapon that is at least comparable to the Relics and Mythics - and they served that goal admirably for many years. A non-99'd RME isn't an Ultimate weapon anymore - but has always been at least competitive, and it's not unreasonable for them to receive a modest boost to at least remain relevant. Note, I say relevant - not ultimate. Giving non-99'd RME less damage than the recent Delve weapons is totally reasonable, as long as the weapons ARE good enough for Adoulin content, such as Delve farming.

That said, I'm totally on board with SE adding more ways to get plates and cinders/dross, rather than reducing the requirements of the trials. Heck, make them drop in Skirmish and THAT might make that content relevant.

I agree for the most part Syl, but I just have to dispute this idea that people seem to be spreading around: Empyreans are not a poor-man's relic. They are Legendary tier weapons. Yes, their requirements may be less than their peers, but that doesn't make them a poor-man's relic. It just means that they're a newer, easier to achieve (cost/effort ratio), set of Legendaries.

If Empyreans are a poor man's Relic (no cost), then a Relic is a casual's Mythic (no effort).

The cost to 99 an Empyrean isn't *that* different from the cost to 99 a Relic, either.

Before the 95/99 trials, Empys were 'free': all of the trial items were EX. Sure, you could merc pop sets, of course, but that doesn't change the fact that you HAD to be there for the kills, at least. You HAD to put in time and effort, unlike someone with a metric ton of gil who could just buy all the ancient currency for a Relic. In other words, you could make an Empy without spending a single gil; all you had to do was spend the time and effort. They were a lot more obtainable for the average player than a relic was, especially back before you could spam Dynamis as much as you can now. So, yes, Empys were introduced as a poor man's Relic.

NOW, that's no longer quite as true, as the 95/99 trials introduce the practical necessity to buy the drops (I sincerely doubt ANYONE has actually single-handedly farmed all the plates and dross/cinders required for a 99 weapon, without buying a single one). This becomes even more obvious when one does the math comparing the price of 99'ing an existing Empy vs. 99'ing a Relic: the cost to take a Relic from 90-99 isn't nearly the same as taking a 90 Empy to 99.

(Mythics... those are a whole other ballgame. Those require an insane degree of dedication; each mythic is for a single job only, and requires a ton of drops, as well as individual effort such as assault logs, titles, etc.)

Madau – Relic

Clement Skean – Poor man's Relic

Twashtar - Empyrean

Daka - Poor man's Empyrean

Empyreans are Legendary class weapons and shouldn't be looked down on as "poor man's" anything. Yes, the effort/reward ratio is significantly different than Relics at 75, and Mythics at 75, but it was a new tier of Legendary for a new tier of gear, and a totally different atmosphere of game.

so when do we toss our weapons?

99 - relic
95 - poor man's relic

Tossing this out there; I got like 75% of my glavoid shells at lvl80 using my war and a whm mule, and shout glavoids. That ***was harder than any relic i've ever made, and I've made relics octoboxing dynamis-xarc...

Edit: that is to say, when empyreans were actually introduced (80 version), I didn't see them as poorman's relics. If anything, they had a higher economic cost than relics. It was actually mythics that were released to be poorman's relics focused more on events as opposed to gil.