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Matsui: "Don't throw away your R/M/E weapons yet"
Ragnarok.Zeromega
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Posts: 400
By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2013-05-09 21:40:45
if you want to nit pick there is a search function here on ffxiah that will tell how many people have 99 of every r/m/e, and thats just for the people who registered on xiah
accuracy+ go
Bismarck.Kelhor
Administrator
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By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-05-09 21:43:42
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »will tell how many English speakers that are using the guildwork client have 99 of every r/m/e
As long as we're discussing accuracy...
Ragnarok.Zeromega
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By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2013-05-09 21:44:40
R/E/M will more than likely NEVER be obsolete. they will always be something worth getting. And even though i personally do not own one, Im sure that those who do will have no reason to worry about their R/E/M ever becoming just inventory-1. You must have missed the memo where he said he changed his mind from making r/m/e expensive paperweights to fairly relevant in the near future. Emphasis on making r/m/e paperweights losing unique ws.
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By Asura.Calatilla 2013-05-09 22:04:20
Where does 99 Caladbolg currently stand in the GS hierarchy and where would it be after this proposed change?
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-09 22:06:27
I did some statistics on RME based on the Vanadiel census a while back
Although that version of the chart is using the wrong rank for the jobs I guess I didn't save the fixed chart '~'
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Ragnarok.Zeromega
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By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2013-05-09 22:08:00
in current standing caladbolg is way behind unless you can cover the acc, otherwise its right up there with rag and bereaver, after the update itll probably be 2nd after ragnarok for a short time (till more stuff comes out)
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By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2013-05-09 22:13:30
Wont apoc become king of scythes if they unlock quintis. Same for rag if it unlocks empy great sword weapon skill.
Ragnarok.Zeromega
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By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2013-05-09 22:15:31
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »Wont apoc become king of scythes if they unlock quintis. Same for rag if it unlocks empy great sword weapon skill. even before this update apoc was king of scythes, torcleaver wont do ***for rag
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By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2013-05-09 22:17:42
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »Wont apoc become king of scythes if they unlock quintis. Same for rag if it unlocks empy great sword weapon skill. even before this update apoc was king of scythes, torcleaver wont do ***for rag
I thought liberater was the ki g. But glad to here it. My apoc is ready.
Ragnarok.Eriina
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By Ragnarok.Eriina 2013-05-09 22:18:14
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »Wont liberator become king of scythes if they unlock catastrophe?
Ftfy*
(*if you like utility, as many apoc owners seem to)
Ragnarok.Zeromega
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Posts: 400
By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2013-05-09 22:20:25
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »Wont liberator become king of scythes if they unlock catastrophe?
Ftfy*
(*if you like utility, as many apoc owners seem to) theyre not talking about unlocking relic ws anymore~
otherwise i may be chasing liberator myself
Ragnarok.Eriina
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By Ragnarok.Eriina 2013-05-09 22:25:19
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »theyre not talking about unlocking relic ws anymore~
otherwise i may be chasing liberator myself
I guess drg can forget about OA2-3 shock spikes then...
Ragnarok.Zeromega
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By Ragnarok.Zeromega 2013-05-09 22:28:50
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: »theyre not talking about unlocking relic ws anymore~
otherwise i may be chasing liberator myself
I guess drg can forget about OA2-3 shock spikes then... http://nooooooooooooooo.com
Lakshmi.Feint
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By Lakshmi.Feint 2013-05-09 22:42:21
What about brack Mage!!!!!!
Carbuncle.Hackett
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By Carbuncle.Hackett 2013-05-09 23:16:29
What if SE let you trade in your LV99 rme for a buster sword usable by all jobs?
Bismarck.Kelhor
Administrator
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By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-05-09 23:20:52
Carbuncle.Hackett said: »What if SE let you trade in your LV99 rme for a buster sword usable by all jobs?
Don't do it. Climhazzard has terrible mods.
By Losie 2013-05-09 23:42:11
Hate on me if you want, but all the whimpering to keep RMEs relevant is a bit silly. It's an MMO, stuff gets outdated. You didn't do the trials to have the best weapon forever, you did 'em to have what you have, that's it. People pretend like just because they dumped a month or five into an item that they deserve to be indefinitely tops - again, welcome to MMOs. FFXI has been stagnant long enough that I can understand the turmoil, and furthermore, SE made the problem worse by continuing them in the first place, and even adding the whole RME deal to begin with.
Not to mention the problem of continuing them further - is a new player going to want to, much less be ABLE to, build RMEs as SoA progresses? Who's going to go back and do that old content with them, especially as time consuming as some of it can be? The RMEs ultimately were neat items that became design/itemization nightmares, and SE is now paying the price. People are conditioned to keep their fancy weapons indefinitely relevant, and especially with game-changers like Ochain/Aegis and such, they really backed themselves into a corner with poor design forethought.
Anyways, I personally like RME stuff just for the class-specific work-your-***-off-for-something-cool aspect, but.. People definitely need to keep in mind that games grow, and that means whatever amazing item you worked so hard for will look like trash sooner or later.. and the more SE is forced to string those items along further, the more it'll keep their itemization janked.
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By Alerith 2013-05-09 23:50:40
You must be new to the concept that FFXI has survived to this day by not being like every other MMO out there.
R/M/E were, by design, ultimate endgame weapons. They were meant to be the final solution to your weapon slot, at least on a very small handful of jobs. Many of these were built, despite their daunting conditions, by players who believed this; that their work towards an ultimate weapon would pay off in the long run of...well...being an ultimate weapon.
Bahamut.Kiralai
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By Bahamut.Kiralai 2013-05-10 03:45:35
You must be new to the concept that FFXI has survived to this day by not being like every other MMO out there.
R/M/E were, by design, ultimate endgame weapons. They were meant to be the final solution to your weapon slot, at least on a very small handful of jobs. Many of these were built, despite their daunting conditions, by players who believed this; that their work towards an ultimate weapon would pay off in the long run of...well...being an ultimate weapon.
That, and the Final Fantasy franchise has a reasonably strong history of annoying-to-obtain ultimate weapons. I always viewed it as another way SE tried to make us feel like we were actually playing a Final Fantasy game and not just another MMO.
Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2013-05-10 06:12:14
Hate on me if you want, but all the whimpering to keep RMEs relevant is a bit silly. It's an MMO, stuff gets outdated. And they do. Almost every piece of armor and accessory have been outdated. Hell, Brutal Earring just got dethroned on 2H DDs during TP phase.
However, RME have always remained the best in slot. With some exceptions. And having them replaced by a weapon that can be bought off the AH or farmed in a few hours is both insulting and *** stupid.
If they were dethroned by an ultimate Adoulin weapon set, I doubt there'd have been too much complaining. At least, no more than there was when Mythics and Empyreans were released.
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-10 06:19:18
Drakesbane and Stringing Pummel will be the big winners here. High weapon damage favors weaponskills with high ftp even if the mods are mediocre. Modifier will be less important and ftp will be more. For instance, asuran fists with rigor baghnakhs does almost as much damage as Shijin Spiral. Same story for evisceration and exenterator. The 100% mod merit wss will be hurting with 99 rmes.
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By skyehope928 2013-05-10 07:17:49
Obviously those who complain about rem r the ones who don't have one
Phoenix.Urteil
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2013-05-10 07:28:40
Burn them all to the ground.
New interesting things please.
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By Sylph.Wardeniii 2013-05-10 07:29:59
Phoenix.Urteil
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2013-05-10 07:52:44
That's not enough to finish my sweater.
[+]
Cerberus.Detzu
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 869
By Cerberus.Detzu 2013-05-10 07:59:33
That's not enough to finish my sweater.
You have no Redemption.
Phoenix.Urteil
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2013-05-10 08:01:32
Never needed it.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
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Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-05-10 08:06:24
All the cool kids have one D:
Phoenix.Urteil
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2013-05-10 08:07:24
All the kids missed my memo it seems.
Ragnarok.Ashman
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Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-05-10 08:18:31
You're gonna be mad when Matsui let's us form all 5 weapons into voltron (and add a kclub to make the ultrazord)!
04-26-2013 12:52 PM | Akihiko Matsui | Dev Team |  |
| | I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.
What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.
In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.
For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.
Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event. | |
05-09-2013 10:15 AM | Slycer | BG Translator |  |
| | Matsui: Follow up on Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin Weapons
Hello, it's Matsui. Thank you for all of your opinions about Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (hereafter, RMEC). They were very helpful.
After reading all of the varied opinions, we have decided that rather than unlocking the weapon skills specific to each weapon, a reworking of RME weapons would be more effective (for coin weapons, more information will be provided later, but we plan to allow these to unlock the dedicated weapon skills).
I have written and reorganized this in various ways and it has become quite lengthy with examples. After you have gotten a chance to look over it, please let us know if you have any further opinions.
Content Level
We received many questions about the parameters of Adoulin equipment. Because this is an important part in order to be able to understand the reworking of RME so you can provide your opinion, please allow me to repeat the explanation for content level and growth in Seekers of Adoulin.
In Adoulin, the basic design is a repeated play cycle where players become stronger and stronger as they align themselves with equipment obtained from challenging content which, in turn, allows them to take on even more challenging content.
By aligning themselves with this equipment, players will continue to grow even without leveling up.
The content level of Adoulin content is set as follows:
[[Info below is much better formatted in a table on the original post.]]
20: Delve (Boss Monsters) (Current)
17: Wildskeeper Reive (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
14: Delve NMs (Tier 2) (Current)
13: Skirmish (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
11: Delve NMs (Tier 1) (Current)
6-9: Colonization / Lair Reives (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
7: Wildskeeper Reive (Current)
6: Skirmish (Current)
1-5: Colonization/Lair Reives (Current)
The strength of the equipment that can be obtained, rather than the level of the equipment, will be dependent on the content level. The equipment to be added later in Adoulin will of course be equippable at level 99, but the level of the equipment parameters would be even higher to match the content level (for example, similar to what level 110 or 120 equipment might look like).
While the strength of the monsters which appear is determined to match the content level, in order to fill out the hierarchy between content to some extent, we have designed monsters of variable strength. The parameters of the equipment that can be obtained in Adoulin is set by determining the parameters that would be necessary to compete with those monsters.
The level of current and planned content is set to minimize the gaps between content level, but we may also insert additional intermediate content if the jump between levels remains too high.
In some cases, content variations will cause content to cover multiple levels. We also plan to enhance the amount of content available horizontally at individual levels, rather than just vertically over the content level range.
The content in the next version update will be added with this in mind.
Referencing the "next version update" items above, it will be possible to add new colonization and lair reive equipment purchasable for Bayld in the level 6~9 range (which currently includes Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives). In addition, we will be inserting new content at levels 13 and 17.
Also, one part of smoothing out the content level will be adjusted in a maintenance to be carried out of the end of this week: we will be adding a fixed probability to obtain the items needed to enter Skirmishes (Simulacrum Segments) from Lair and Colonization Reives. (This adjustment is unrelated to the current rules associated with coalition assignments, gathering, and Soul Pyres.)
By making this adjustment, the assumed progression will be:
1. First, take on lair and colonization reives.
2. As a result of those battles, obtain Simulacrum Segments.
3. Combine the segments in order to enter Skirmishes.
Reworking RMEC
Please excuse my lengthy explanation above. I'll now return to the topic at hand.
First off, since it is necessary for the development staff to further consider the implementation, we cannot guarantee the timeframe as far as whether it will be included in the next version update.
Regarding the types of parameters that would be reworked, special abilities such as Aftermath and Afterglow will remain, while parameters such as the DMG rating, attack, and accuracy will be set to match the content level post-rework.
Since the parameters will be reworked to become aligned with high content difficulty, we do not intend to rework it in small intervals such as with the previous method of Trial of the Magians.
Prior to now, RME were considered the strongest weapons, so I think there will need to be some change to this viewpoint. For those who have RME, you may not require the other weapons, but there now be a choice among other comparable weapons.
If you are worried about how these weapons will be able to be used, for example, against Delve boss monsters, here are some parameters which we are looking at for the reworking. This is just for RME one-handed swords as an example:
Excalibur
DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
to
DMG:121 Delay:233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
Burtgang
DMG:73 Delay:264 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
to
DMG:131 Delay:264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Almace
DMG:70 Delay:224 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
to
DMG:114 Delay:224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Since coin weapons were originally just intended to be used for Empyrean weapon skills, based on the concept, I believe that instead of reworking them, they can be used to open the dedicated weapon skills (with certain level and job restrictions). We are currently considering the adjustment procedures necessary for this..
In conclusion
I've gone on for a while, so considering the reworking for level 99 Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons as well as the unlocking of dedicated weapon skills via Coin weapons, please let us know your opinions. We will read through your thoughts one by one to make sure we understand your point of view.
Note that this is a large departure from the original plan. Considering the feasibility of scheduling this change, the development may take some time.
I apologize for keeping you waiting on my response.
Thanks in advance!
Translated by: Slycer | |
05-09-2013 2:19 PM | Akihiko Matsui | Dev Team |  |
| | Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons
Matsui here.
Thank you all so much for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes weapons. It has helped out tremendously.
After reading over all of your feedback, instead of continuing the growth of these weapons by unlocking the weapon skills that are tied to each of the weapons, I feel it would be better to perform a revamp on RME weapons. (Regarding Walk of Echoes weapons, I will talk about this below, but they will be involved with unlocking the specialized weapon skills.)
I've been reworking a lot, and writing it all up, but it seems the post turned out rather lengthy, so once you have been able to read through it all and digest it we'd love to hear your feedback.
Content Level
We've received a lot of questions about the stats on Adoulin equipment, and I'd like to once again explain about growth and content levels in Seekers of Adoulin as this is a critical aspect in order to receive feedback on the revamps for RME weapons.
The content in Adoulin has been designed with a repeating play-cycle where you challenge content that you are able to at that moment in time, gather equipment, become stronger, and then take on higher tier content which will allow you to gather even stronger equipment.
It's through the procurement of equipment that will allow players to grow and level up.
We've established content levels for Adoulin content as a means to objectively display difficulty benchmarks. The below is a concrete illustration of these content levels.
20 |
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Delve (Boss monsters) |
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19 |
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18 |
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17 |
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New Additions to Wildskeeper Reives |
16 |
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15 |
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14 |
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Delve (NM group 2) |
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13 |
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New additions to Skirmish |
12 |
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11 |
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Delve (NM group 1) |
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10 |
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9 |
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New additions to Colonization/Lair Reives |
8 |
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7 |
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Wildskeeper Reives |
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6 |
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Skirmish |
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5 |
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Colonization/Lair Reives |
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4 |
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3 |
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2 |
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1 |
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Content Level |
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Up to April 2013 |
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Next version update (currently adjusting) |
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Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).
The strength of the monsters that will be introduced are matched to that of the content level, but since there is somewhat of a solidified hierarchy between content, it's been setup so that the strength can be felt with even one level difference in content level. Oppositely, the parameters on Adoulin equipment have been calculated and set in order to deal with these monsters.
Fundamentally we will be making it so that the content level for content to come in the future continues to become higher, but there may be cases where we fill in areas where there is a large jump in content level as needed.
Also, in order to make it so there are various types of content sprawled across a single content level, we are supplementing it with content variations. We've also designed plans to enable resting periods where we will expand laterally instead of vertically, because players may get burnt out going full steam ahead.
In the next version update we will be adding content focusing on filling in the gaps as well as supplementing with content variation.
In the above chart, please look at the “Next version update (currently adjusting)” column. For content levels 6-9 (Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reives), we will be adding equipment appropriate for these content levels that can be exchanged for Bayld along with new Colonization and Lair Reives. Additionally, we will be filling in content for levels 13 and 17.
For those players who are already able to take on Skirmish, Wildskeeper Reives, and Delve at this point in time, it will not be absolutely necessary to challenge this content, but we will be making the above adjustments in case you want to increase your success rate, or are feeling that the current situation is still a bit tough.
Also, as a plan to resolve the issue where Skirmish is not really connecting the content as was planned, we will be undergoing maintenance at the end of this week and making it so statue segments can be obtained from Colonization and Lair Reives at a set rate. (These adjustments are separate from the rules associated with obtaining these items via Coalition Assignments, HELM, and Soul Pyres.)
By performing these adjustments we envision the below flow:
Challenge Colonization and Lair Reives
Obtain statue segments by participating in these reives
Challenge Skirmish with the parts you have obtained
Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.
To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.
In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.
While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.
However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.
I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.
With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:
Excalibur
DMG: 73 Delay: 233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
↓
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
Burtgang
DMG: 73 Delay: 264 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
↓
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
Almace
DMG: 70 Delay: 224 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
↓
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.
In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.
I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.
My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.
I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.
Thank you all very much. | |
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