Matsui: "Don't Throw Away Your R/M/E Weapons Yet"

Nope

Not when you can usually buy something roughly equivalent to the ToM weapons on the AH now, at least for the DW classes. It'll be good enough until you can get a Skirmish weapon or something to replace it.

Is this real live?

Is this just fantasy?

Caught in a landslide

So let me get this right.

You start the game, you book burn your levels so you can do your limit breaks, so you can get to 70ish, so you can get into Abyssea, so you can get abyssea gear, which will help you get empyrean gear, which in turn will help you to get Magian weapons, so you can do dynamis to get better gear, which you can upgrade by doing more dynamis, so you can get gil while you upgrade these gears, so you can buy good gear from the AH, so you can go out and do all your missions, so you can get better gear, so you can do the harder abyssea content until you are good enough to get into voidwatch, so you can get clears and some gil, so you may save up enough to get a relic/empyrean weapon while also getting into seekers, so you can do reives, to get bayld to get new gear which will trump bits of gear you have, so you can go out and do harder voidwatch, and farm salvage, limbus, neo salvage and einherjar for situational pieces, and harder reives, so you can get strong enough to do skirmishes and wildkeeper reives, so you can get new weapons that may help you get into lower tier delve, so you can get plasm for better gear, which in turn will get you better gear and weapons, so you can use those to beat harder skirmish/delve/reives/wildkeeper so you can get better weapon and gear, so you can do the high end delve bosses, so you can be strong enough to upgrade your R/E/M to be marginally as good as the gear you just got, but because you spent so much time getting this far you might as well anyway?

So.. Matsui said in the same post that he's adjusting R/E/M and making it obsolete again with the next set of Naakuals/Delve 2? Or am I misunderstanding this... coz he clearly states that equipment will continue to rise in terms of stats. And weapons ARE equipment:

Does he plan to revise R/E/M with each update that tops them...?

He is saying that he wants to keep releasing harder content, but doesn't want to release minor upgrades for RMEs every time he does it even if they get outdated temporarily. Also, he gave no timeframe for this update. He might just be releasing this stuff after most of the rest of the content from Adoulin is already out there <_<;

As far as I can tell the REM upgrades are just going to be log in, poof, better weapon (Probably considering the people who were halfway through their afterglow trial?).

As far as the new content level ladder goes though, you don't need to do as much as you're suggesting IMO. For most jobs you'd probably be good with just Empyrean Armor, Neo Nyzul Gear and maybe some Reive Gear, then you are ready to hop into Skirmish and you can begin climbing the Adoulin geargrind.

There's a lot of stuff from Voidwatch/Meebles/etc that haven't been outdated but hardly any of it is necessary. The only amazing piece of gear off the top of my head I can think of is Mekira Meikogai.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33458-Follow-up-Level-99-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-and-Walk-of-Echoes-Weapons?p=432132#post432132

If you read properly. this is probably the best we are gonna get for weapons. I don't expect huge increases in weapons ever again. Probably will just be different options, and sidepath gear. Buisness as usual. If you look at his comments he wanted to make R/M/E on par with the top notch weapons, just give ppl a different option if they want these new one's

Later ***

na this is just beginning, in a year or 2 we'll be chasing down 300-400dmg weapons

If they implement the changes to base dmg, the new SoA weapons will still beat r/e/m. Almace99 dmg from 74 to 114. One of the swords from SoA has 130 base and still gets augments and still has str and atk on it anyways.

Unless they plan on making a better revamping people are still going to be butthurt. Glad I stopped making a relic a while ago. Almace can gather dust and be a new home defense weapon for my moogle, or I can go get a manaquinn and it will have a nice shiney sword placed on it.

It doesn't have ODD, and I think that's the catch, their way of justifying not giving R/E/M the best base damage.

Aftermath closes the gap some, someone else pointed out that if you can make use of your aftermath should keep them up but if not the new weapons are better.

I'm not sure where you'd get that from his post. Nothing he said suggests there won't be new weapons in Delve II or whatever future content they have planned. At this point, all we have is one or two lines from another post where he mentioned Delve being the top end content for quite awhile. That in and of itself suggests higher-tier content beyond Delve at some point in the future, and if he doesn't abandon his gear treadmill vision, I would expect another jump in weapon damage at that time.

This might be hard to believe, but a D114/224 delay sword with 30% Double Damage and 20 DEX/Atk/Acc is at least competitive with a D130/240 delay sword with 13 STR and 25 Acc/Atk.

Buramenk'ah is an offhand sword.

Kylos you start the game, you book burn your levels so you can do your limit breaks, so you can get to 70ish, so you can get into Abyssea, so you can get abyssea gear, which will help you get empyrean gear (skip the rest) while also getting into seekers because

Quote:
We'd really be grateful if those of you who are experienced could invite these newcomers to take on this content when you have the ability to do so.

so you can do reives, to get bayld to get new gear which will trump bits of gear you have,(skip the rest), so you can get strong enough to do skirmishes and wildkeeper reives, so you can get new weapons that may help you get into lower tier delve, so you can get plasm for better gear, which in turn will get you better gear and weapons, so you can use those to beat harder skirmish/delve/reives/wildkeeper so you can get better weapon and gear, so you can do the high end delve bosses,(so you can be strong enough to upgrade your R/E/M to be marginally as good as the gear you just got(that remains to be seen)) (now if you want, you can get some situational VW/limbus/dyna/salvage/NNI gear now that you got the pwnage weps and can kill almost instantly anything low man)...
:D

Fair enough, but Matsui was pretty clear that he would continue to release higher content levels, presumably with higher damage weapons. What happens then?

I'd be a lot more comfortable with a ToM style series of ever increasing trials than with a one time upgrade near the apparent beginning of the new content ladder.

Since they didn't learn the first time after Abyssea initially invalidated Relics, I'd cynically assume these weapons will have twice the damage values of the new upgraded REMs, and we'll repeat, including another ulcer for Matsui.

But maybe they'll learn and have upgrades for them ready whenever that new content comes out?

Exactly, and the higher your WS modifier is, the less weapon base damage means. 10% higher base damage usually result in about 5-6% increase in WS damage only. However, I do think that Empy is the one that is least competitive out of R/E/M, consider their bread and butter WS can pretty much be learned through WoE weapons. If that wasn't the case, then Almace would easily be king with the much superior WS.

He uses a considerable amount of doublespeak on that point:


So they aren't going to release new RMEs every time they release new content. There's a chance that you might be using a suboptimal weapon for a period of time. Of course, everyone uses a suboptimal weapon when you start farming new content, if the new optimal weapon comes from new content. However:


This quote is ambiguous, specifically the underlined part. We could choose to use Bee Spatha +1s on our 99 Paladins, but we don't want to. We are going to be unhappy with RMEs if they are not approximately the best weapons in the game. It is unclear whether he is saying that he is going to make a series of comparable weapons, or whether he's going to outdate them and we have the option to not move on.

So WoE weapons are now worth building, for certain WS at least? Since a 99 empyrean will not unlock the WS, you at least have the option of building the WoE version. That part is cool.


Straight out of World of Warcraft's itemization handbook. This is a bad direction for Final Fantasy XI to head in.

I'm not entirely sure what he means by this statement, but it seems to imply that they will continue to upgrade them, but it'll be like, once every 2-3 content patches or something, where you'll have it be top for 3 months, then be beaten for another 3, then it becomes good again for another 3...something like that?

oh yeah by the way you naysayers our hundreds of pages in bitching across multiple forums did help, proving that if we all work together, collective whining does accomplish tasks in xi


ur welcome

Honestly, if that's his plan, I wish he'd just say it:

"Look, I'm going to bump them up again, because you had no notice and I don't want you all to quit and for me to get fired. But this time, I'm giving you notice, this stuff is going to be left behind, so, you know, get to work on plasma farming. And bring some undergeared dudes with you."

I am glad you brought it up, it reads to me like they are trying to make it extremely hard to upgrade R/E/M, similar to how to obtain one of those Delve boss weapons.

Why? I'm not saying that your opinion isn't justified, just that I would like to hear the justification - so often people playing other MMOs seem to rally against anything which could be seen as "WoW-like", ignoring all of the positive points of the game!

Yea, something like that. :p

It's bad for two reasons, really:

- One of the things that made XI different was that the gear progression was horizontal (get things from multiple events) instead of vertical (spam the dungeon released in the most recent patch). Gear (especially weapons, but not exclusively) had relatively long lasting value. If you start removing the things that make XI distinctive, why would anyone play it over a more modern game that follows the WoW pattern? Or just play WoW itself?

- XI struggles with development time as it is. Doing a vertical ladder requires a significant investment in steady content updates, so that you don't just cap out from spamming Delve and doing nothing else (as nothing else has anything worth going after).