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2nd child dies after parents choose prayer
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Bluespoons 2013-04-23 17:23:22
Quetzalcoatl.Ronix said: »Wow I find all this funny. First off we live in a free country. Second it also has freedom of religion. Just because you believe they should have done one thing doesn't mean they believe that. Good or bad, healed or hurt, alive or dead they are able to do what they think is the best "even though it might not be". This goes deeper then the couple and the children. If the government can throw in jail one couple for doing what they believed right where does it stop? If the child got sick of natural causes and they believed in not using modern medical treatment then so be it. What happens happens. Now there is a whole other side to this. If they starved the child or straight up neglected the child there is criminal charges. People get sick, people die its how the world works and some people don't want to or dont believe is modern ways and that's fine as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else let them live the way they believe they should.
It DID hurt someone else. It killed two innocent children that were completely dependent on their parents to take care of them.
You find this funny, what happens happens... Really hope you have no kids, ever. Dead babies are *** hilarious, no?
VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-04-23 17:23:30
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »let go of the hatred guys So what about the Christians that say that gays should be rounded up and put behind electric fences, stoned to death, or that God's wrath due to people accepting gays is the reason for every problem from hurricanes to North Korea's nuclear happy dance.
What's incredible to me is how Homosexuality is viewed as a choice by so many sects of Christianity. And the ones that understand the reality of it only condone Homosexuality and not Homosexual ACTS...
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-04-23 17:24:52
Quetzalcoatl.Ronix said: »Wow I find all this funny. First off we live in a free country. Second it also has freedom of religion. Just because you believe they should have done one thing doesn't mean they believe that. Good or bad, healed or hurt, alive or dead they are able to do what they think is the best "even though it might not be". This goes deeper then the couple and the children. If the government can throw in jail one couple for doing what they believed right where does it stop? If the child got sick of natural causes and they believed in not using modern medical treatment then so be it. What happens happens. Now there is a whole other side to this. If they starved the child or straight up neglected the child there is criminal charges. People get sick, people die its how the world works and some people don't want to or dont believe is modern ways and that's fine as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else let them live the way they believe they should. Not sure if serious...
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Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-04-23 17:25:03
My mother had cancer and went to the doctors and they ultimately couldn't help her, then she turned to God and was healed and ever since then shes devoted her life to God.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
YouTube Video Placeholder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5X64QCDVnI
For some reason my youtube code is not working
Nevermind, I fixed it!
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By Angeljcar 2013-04-23 17:31:26
My mother had cancer and went to the doctors and they ultimately couldn't help her, then she turned to God and was healed and ever since then shes devoted her life to God.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
YouTube Video Placeholder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5X64QCDVnI
For some reason my youtube code is not working
Nevermind, I fixed it! cant watch the video atm.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-04-23 17:38:48
Is it not working or you just can't wach it now?
By Angeljcar 2013-04-23 17:42:00
Is it not working or you just can't wach it now? cant watch, at work.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-04-23 17:43:35
Is it not working or you just can't wach it now? cant watch, at work. Ah ok, so I didn't mess it up again :)
By Angeljcar 2013-04-23 17:45:47
Is it not working or you just can't wach it now? cant watch, at work. Ah ok, so I didn't mess it up again :) It's visable. So i don't think so. :)
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By Odin.Hitoseijuro 2013-04-23 17:46:02
My mother had cancer and went to the doctors and they ultimately couldn't help her, then she turned to God and was healed and ever since then shes devoted her life to God.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
YouTube Video Placeholder Except thats not how it works, you dont have 1 doctor that tells you you have cancer and youre going to have x-amount of time to live etc. You have a team of doctors(10 or so doctors) not to mention from that team you have a board of doctors on top of different techs who run different tests to assure you have what you have. Depending on what cancer and were it is you will most likely have more than 1 group of doctors as well. Its not just 1 person that decides what is what, we are talking about a big group of people all coming together to make these decisions/conclusions. Those of you that have had cancer will know the hoops of doctors you had to go through in fighting it. Then again it could depend on the hospital...
Why the cancer didnt kill them, I dont know, but if we understood cancer as much as we would like, less people would be dying from it. Yes there are some misdiagnosis but that could depend on the tests that were ran, I know some markers can test positive for cancer but they can also be high for other reasons, again it could just depend on the hospital...
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-04-23 18:03:54
if we understood every different type of cancer as much as we would like, less people would be dying from it.
ftfy
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By Lye 2013-04-23 18:06:35
What I was thinking is I see all kinds of things today that are restricted until people can prove they are able/capable of doing that task. So I was thinking shouldn't there be something similar for rising kids which could be one of the most challenging things a person could do so we can lessen events like this and many more?
As a kid, I thought you had to have a license to have a baby.
I was in for a sobering realization....
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-04-23 18:09:48
Let's put this whole god thing on hold, throw money under the bus and prioritize understanding and fixing the human body, and then once we have nano-machines that repair the body from the inside and increase our life spans by 100+ years, we can go back to having wars and killing each other pointlessly.
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By Enuyasha 2013-04-23 18:12:34
What I was thinking is I see all kinds of things today that are restricted until people can prove they are able/capable of doing that task. So I was thinking shouldn't there be something similar for rising kids which could be one of the most challenging things a person could do so we can lessen events like this and many more?
As a kid, I thought you had to have a license to have a baby.
I was in for a sobering realization.... <insert "Hitler did that" irrational/blatantly ignorant line here>
but yea, the "conception license" sounds like an amazing idea.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-04-23 18:13:01
Let's put this whole god thing on hold, throw money under the bus and prioritize understanding and fixing the human body, and then once we have nano-machines that repair the body from the inside and increase our life spans by 100+ years, we can go back to having wars and killing each other pointlessly.
See that's the big problem with medicine today. People need to come terms with mortality. There are consequences ecologically and sociologically to continuously extending human life.
Often more than not. Longevity =/= quality of life.
By Lye 2013-04-23 18:15:33
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »if we understood every different type of cancer as much as we would like, less people would be dying from it.
ftfy
THISSSS
The first time I looked at an RNA-seq, I realized this. I'm glad someone could put it more eloquently.
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-04-23 18:15:50
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »See that's the big problem with medicine today. People need to come terms with mortality. There are consequences ecologically and sociologically to extending human life. Shhh. Don't let them know that.
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-04-23 18:21:04
YouTube Video Placeholder
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By Odin.Hitoseijuro 2013-04-23 18:22:29
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »if we understood every different type of cancer as much as we would like, less people would be dying from it. That goes without saying....
Let's put this whole god thing on hold, throw money under the bus and prioritize understanding and fixing the human body, and then once we have nano-machines that repair the body from the inside and increase our life spans by 100+ years, we can go back to having wars and killing each other pointlessly. Id love for that kind of technology but sadly I fear that technology will be used for military purposes way before it reaches the medical department, by then who knows how late that would be. I would love to believe we live in a society that wants us to live forever but sadly we live in one that deems money over life and sadly there is no money in living forever.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-04-23 18:28:44
Id love for that kind of technology but sadly I fear that technology will be used for military purposes way before it reaches the medical department, by then who knows how late that would be. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
I would love to believe we live in a society that wants us to live forever but sadly we live in one that deems money over life and sadly there is no money in living forever. There's a way to make money off of anything!
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-04-23 18:33:03
I would love to believe we live in a society that wants us to live forever but sadly we live in one that deems money over life and sadly there is no money in living forever.
Humans, like everything on this planet, are not meant to live forever. Longevity comes with a price. Ask any cancer or AIDS patient that... A bartender(and someone who I call my friend) who I go see every sunday for drinks has been in the hospital for a month suffering of AIDS his family & partner are doing everything to extend his life. But there comes a point where one must actualize the suffering a patient endures being in that hospital bed so long and having IV's of meds being pumped into them just so they can live another day or two...
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By Odin.Hitoseijuro 2013-04-23 18:33:24
That's not necessarily a bad thing. True, hey im all for finding ways to settle disputes quicker and less casualties on both sides, but the people who run things happen to be in politics and they generally have not been the best people to trust with anything...
There's a way to make money off of anything! Indeed.....sadly..
Baconwrap said: Ask any cancer or AIDS patient that... Ive already been there, and still there, I know all about living a normal life and then the next second told you have something that can kill you and that your life even if saved will be forever changed.
Baconwrap said: But there comes a point where one must actualize the suffering a patient endures being in that hospital bed so long and having IV's of meds being pumped into them just so they can live another day or two... Agreed. I know everyone is different and reacts to everything differently but sitting in the hospital with chemo being pumped into you for hours for days is horrible. Youre basically being pumped with poison to kill poison on top of the fact that you can have lots of reactions to it and have permanent damage, but they tell you the end justifies the means....(I can only imagine what he had to endure with his condition of AIDS).
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-04-23 18:41:17
There's a way to make money off of anything! Indeed.....sadly.. Again, not necessarily a bad thing. Profit is a powerful motivator for progress - Rule of Acquisition #86 Not really a Rule of Acquisition but it felt appropriate.
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Bahamut.Jetacku
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By Bahamut.Jetacku 2013-04-23 18:46:47
Quetzalcoatl.Ronix said: »Wow I find all this funny. First off we live in a free country. Second it also has freedom of religion. Just because you believe they should have done one thing doesn't mean they believe that. Good or bad, healed or hurt, alive or dead they are able to do what they think is the best "even though it might not be". This goes deeper then the couple and the children. If the government can throw in jail one couple for doing what they believed right where does it stop? If the child got sick of natural causes and they believed in not using modern medical treatment then so be it. What happens happens. Now there is a whole other side to this. If they starved the child or straight up neglected the child there is criminal charges. People get sick, people die its how the world works and some people don't want to or dont believe is modern ways and that's fine as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else let them live the way they believe they should.
At no point of "freedom of religion" should ever extend to the well-being or the indoctrination of one's children.
Yet I know the religious types will defend indoctrination to the death as they know as well as I do that organized religion would take a severe hit if children were taught to think for themselves at an early age instead of being force fed nonsense.
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By Angeljcar 2013-04-23 18:54:24
Quetzalcoatl.Ronix said: »Wow I find all this funny. First off we live in a free country. Second it also has freedom of religion. Just because you believe they should have done one thing doesn't mean they believe that. Good or bad, healed or hurt, alive or dead they are able to do what they think is the best "even though it might not be". This goes deeper then the couple and the children. If the government can throw in jail one couple for doing what they believed right where does it stop? If the child got sick of natural causes and they believed in not using modern medical treatment then so be it. What happens happens. Now there is a whole other side to this. If they starved the child or straight up neglected the child there is criminal charges. People get sick, people die its how the world works and some people don't want to or dont believe is modern ways and that's fine as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else let them live the way they believe they should.
At no point of "freedom of religion" should ever extend to the well-being or the indoctrination of one's children.
Yet I know the religious types will defend indoctrination to the death as they know as well as I do that organized religion would take a severe hit if children were taught to think for themselves at an early age instead of being force fed nonsense. Children should see the doctor no matter what your faith is. But on another note, i am willing to bet you would teach your children whatever it is that you believe just as a religious parent would teach his child religious beliefs.
Bahamut.Jetacku
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By Bahamut.Jetacku 2013-04-23 18:56:30
Quetzalcoatl.Ronix said: »Wow I find all this funny. First off we live in a free country. Second it also has freedom of religion. Just because you believe they should have done one thing doesn't mean they believe that. Good or bad, healed or hurt, alive or dead they are able to do what they think is the best "even though it might not be". This goes deeper then the couple and the children. If the government can throw in jail one couple for doing what they believed right where does it stop? If the child got sick of natural causes and they believed in not using modern medical treatment then so be it. What happens happens. Now there is a whole other side to this. If they starved the child or straight up neglected the child there is criminal charges. People get sick, people die its how the world works and some people don't want to or dont believe is modern ways and that's fine as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else let them live the way they believe they should.
At no point of "freedom of religion" should ever extend to the well-being or the indoctrination of one's children.
Yet I know the religious types will defend indoctrination to the death as they know as well as I do that organized religion would take a severe hit if children were taught to think for themselves at an early age instead of being force fed nonsense. Children should see the doctor no matter what your faith is. But on another note, i am willing to bet you would teach your children whatever it is that you believe just as a religious parent would teach his child religious beliefs.
No, I would tell them what I believe, and teach them that what they believe is their own personal choice.
As believe =/= know.
By Angeljcar 2013-04-23 18:59:32
Quetzalcoatl.Ronix said: »Wow I find all this funny. First off we live in a free country. Second it also has freedom of religion. Just because you believe they should have done one thing doesn't mean they believe that. Good or bad, healed or hurt, alive or dead they are able to do what they think is the best "even though it might not be". This goes deeper then the couple and the children. If the government can throw in jail one couple for doing what they believed right where does it stop? If the child got sick of natural causes and they believed in not using modern medical treatment then so be it. What happens happens. Now there is a whole other side to this. If they starved the child or straight up neglected the child there is criminal charges. People get sick, people die its how the world works and some people don't want to or dont believe is modern ways and that's fine as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else let them live the way they believe they should.
At no point of "freedom of religion" should ever extend to the well-being or the indoctrination of one's children.
Yet I know the religious types will defend indoctrination to the death as they know as well as I do that organized religion would take a severe hit if children were taught to think for themselves at an early age instead of being force fed nonsense. Children should see the doctor no matter what your faith is. But on another note, i am willing to bet you would teach your children whatever it is that you believe just as a religious parent would teach his child religious beliefs.
No, I would tell them what I believe, and teach them that what they believe is their own personal choice.
As believe =/= know. Don't see where we disagree to start your statement with no, but ok. O.o
Bahamut.Jetacku
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By Bahamut.Jetacku 2013-04-23 19:07:15
Quetzalcoatl.Ronix said: »Wow I find all this funny. First off we live in a free country. Second it also has freedom of religion. Just because you believe they should have done one thing doesn't mean they believe that. Good or bad, healed or hurt, alive or dead they are able to do what they think is the best "even though it might not be". This goes deeper then the couple and the children. If the government can throw in jail one couple for doing what they believed right where does it stop? If the child got sick of natural causes and they believed in not using modern medical treatment then so be it. What happens happens. Now there is a whole other side to this. If they starved the child or straight up neglected the child there is criminal charges. People get sick, people die its how the world works and some people don't want to or dont believe is modern ways and that's fine as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else let them live the way they believe they should.
At no point of "freedom of religion" should ever extend to the well-being or the indoctrination of one's children.
Yet I know the religious types will defend indoctrination to the death as they know as well as I do that organized religion would take a severe hit if children were taught to think for themselves at an early age instead of being force fed nonsense. Children should see the doctor no matter what your faith is. But on another note, i am willing to bet you would teach your children whatever it is that you believe just as a religious parent would teach his child religious beliefs.
No, I would tell them what I believe, and teach them that what they believe is their own personal choice.
As believe =/= know. Don't see where we disagree to start your statement with no, but ok. O.o
To start with: you don't understand the difference between knowledge and beliefs.
Secondly: you don't see the difference between teaching somebody about something, like a particular viewpoint/belief system, and teaching somebody a belief as if it is fact.
basically: semantics, while trite and dull, very important.
Cerberus.Kiori
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By Cerberus.Kiori 2013-04-23 19:31:57
I don't understand how they were even allowed to keep their second child after the 2year old died...
Hospitals have access to these people's backgrounds right? Why wasn't child services called?
...I guess they can't see the future...but regardless... their first child died of neglect...how hard was it to see that it could happen again?
Now this i'm not sure of...but don't probation officers check on people on probation? I've never been arrested, nor have I known anyone who was on probation...so this I'm not 100% sure of....
Throwing the religion aspect of this aside...these "parents" (if you can even call them that) are just disgusting...
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http://www.ibtimes.com/second-child-philadelphia-couple-dies-after-they-choose-prayer-instead-seeing-doctor-1210287
Quote: A Philadelphia couple violated probation after their second child died as a result of them turning to prayer instead of seeking a doctor when the child was ill.
Henry and Catherine Schaible violated probation after their second child died as the couple chose faith healing instead of medical care.
The Philadelphia couple was serving a 10-year probation sentence stemming from the death of their first child, after Herbert and Catherine Schaible prayed for their child instead of seeking medical care, reports the Associated Press.
The Schaibles belong to a fundamentalist Christian church, First Century Gospel Church, that practices faith healing, reports Philadelphia Daily News. The couple was on probation for the death of their 2-year-old son, Kent Schaible, who died of pneumonia in 2009. Herbert and Catherine Schaible pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter in 2011 and were sentenced to 10 years of probation, with one major component being the couple seek medical care for their children if they became sick, notes AP.
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I am at a loss for words.
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