2nd Child Dies After Parents Choose Prayer

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2nd child dies after parents choose prayer
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-04-23 12:47:39
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Where in the hell do you hear Christians saying those horrible things besides in your imagination?

Here's my issue with your angry attitude. In the last entire thread on the Boston bombing that killed innocent people, maimed many others and destoryed the lives of so many people, I heard no outrage towards the fanatical Muslims that actually did it becuase of their religion, infact I heard defense of their religion. Now over these two idiots that let their own child die I hear you absolutely tearing Christianity a new a-hole. You probably would have hated their child anyway, he was Christian afterall.
No you didn't.

Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Has there even been any information released that clarifies the motives for the bombing? We know he's Muslim so the assumption is radical Islamic fundamentalism, but it's my understanding that the kid can't really talk at the moment (missing part of his face and all).

LETS NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS MOTIVES
That's all you had? I'm disappoint.
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 Lakshmi.Aelius
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By Lakshmi.Aelius 2013-04-23 12:48:09
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Gilgamesh.Schmule said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
Gilgamesh.Schmule said: »
Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Politics and religion should remain separate within this thread please.

I don't think Americans are capable of that, especially during Elections.

... Present company excepted of course!

That's a pretty unfair generalization though :(.

It is, (it really is). Although, there is some truth in it....

Some people deserved to be shot... but just don't let those certain people know about the gun. They'll raise hell verbally.
 Bahamut.Jetacku
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By Bahamut.Jetacku 2013-04-23 12:49:06
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Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
No one attacks christians because they're christians. They're attacked if and when they do/say something stupid.

The irony is that you're saying something stupid right here. I've been verbally abused my whole life without even opening my mouth. I've had people make assumptions, or laugh in my face, just hearing that I've had associations with the church at all.

Even before I explain why I did the things I did, and their undisputable benefit to society, clowns like you make unfair generalizations and somehow claim that "someone else" sounds ignorant.

I was assuming I was in the mists of people over the age of 15. 'No one' is a hyperbole and I'm justified in doing so because I was making a case for the overall picture. I shouldn't have to say "in 99.99% of cases" as if I was talking to a bunch of children.

Also, coming back at me with an anecdotal doesn't really make a strong case.

That's the thing, though. I'm not the .01% (yes I get that you were exaggerating again). I'm not even the 25%. I'm not going to invent statistics but you clearly don't realize how prevalent religious discrimination is.

You also use the term "justified" frequently. I couldn't care less about this argument aside from the statements I made in the first post. I just notice that you make a point to take off your fedora to post in every single one of these threads, and you happen to fit into the part that I bolded.

If you're going to be as, or more, zealous than the average religious person: at least take the time to not sound like relgion touched your no-no spot when you were 5.

I hope you mean between religions...
 Lakshmi.Aelius
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By Lakshmi.Aelius 2013-04-23 12:49:44
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
LETS NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS MOTIVES

*Uncontrollable coughs with laughter.*
 Gilgamesh.Schmule
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By Gilgamesh.Schmule 2013-04-23 12:49:49
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »

Bottom line is, you cannot rank people's suffering in general. As a human, you should feel bad as soon as there is persecution against anyone, not pick who has the highest score.

True.

I also can't help but wonder how many people would have been less (or more for that matter) outraged had this been a Muslim couple.
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-04-23 12:51:06
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Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
LETS NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS MOTIVES
*Uncontrollable coughs with laughter.*
What has the world come to?!?! now the moderators are contributing to the mocking! lol...
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-04-23 12:51:30
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Where in the hell do you hear Christians saying those horrible things besides in your imagination?

Here's my issue with your angry attitude. In the last entire thread on the Boston bombing that killed innocent people, maimed many others and destoryed the lives of so many people, I heard no outrage towards the fanatical Muslims that actually did it becuase of their religion, infact I heard defense of their religion. Now over these two idiots that let their own child die I hear you absolutely tearing Christianity a new a-hole. You probably would have hated their child anyway, he was Christian afterall.
No you didn't.

Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Has there even been any information released that clarifies the motives for the bombing? We know he's Muslim so the assumption is radical Islamic fundamentalism, but it's my understanding that the kid can't really talk at the moment (missing part of his face and all).

LETS NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS MOTIVES
That's all you had? I'm disappoint.

No you're not, but anyway I didn't wanna spend more than 10 seconds looking back through an 18 page thread for more of what I found on the first page I checked.
 Lakshmi.Aelius
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By Lakshmi.Aelius 2013-04-23 12:52:09
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Siren.Flavin said: »
Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
LETS NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS MOTIVES
*Uncontrollable coughs with laughter.*
What has the world come to?!?! now the moderators are contributing to the mocking! lol...

I'm human just like you are. I can exert emotions when the time is needed. :o
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-04-23 12:52:35
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Gilgamesh.Schmule said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »

Bottom line is, you cannot rank people's suffering in general. As a human, you should feel bad as soon as there is persecution against anyone, not pick who has the highest score.

True.

I also can't help but wonder how many people would have been less (or more for that matter) outraged had this been a Muslim couple.

We would be deemed racists for even asking questions.
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-04-23 12:53:27
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Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
LETS NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS MOTIVES
*Uncontrollable coughs with laughter.*
What has the world come to?!?! now the moderators are contributing to the mocking! lol...
I'm human just like you are. I can exert emotions when the time is needed. :o
Moderators are not humans!!! in any case I was just making light of how you usually come in to shut down a thread when it gets like that instead of contributing...
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-04-23 12:54:21
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Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
LETS NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS MOTIVES
*Uncontrollable coughs with laughter.*
What has the world come to?!?! now the moderators are contributing to the mocking! lol...

I'm human just like you are. I can exert emotions when the time is needed. :o

I was doing my paraphrasing of Pleebo's post in that all caps post about the Boston bombings. I was not defending these two idiots.
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-04-23 12:55:17
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Gilgamesh.Schmule said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
Bottom line is, you cannot rank people's suffering in general. As a human, you should feel bad as soon as there is persecution against anyone, not pick who has the highest score.
True. I also can't help but wonder how many people would have been less (or more for that matter) outraged had this been a Muslim couple.
We would be deemed racists for even asking questions.
That's not necassarily true... You can't really make this into something where the group you belong to is always the victim as that is in no way true... Muslim groups are often persecuted... hell sometimes all it takes is to "look" muslim...
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-04-23 12:55:50
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Your paraphrasing skills need some work.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-23 12:56:36
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
You left out that they rounded up Gypsies too. Yes, I get all of that. But who was the major group that was not only FIRST persecuted but mainly persecuted? The Jewish people. Did the homosexual people in the concentration camps have to wear a defining symbol around their neck? Did they have to wear a Star of David, or anything else, letting everybody around them know they were homosexual? Did they have to put stars on their windows to let people know they were gay? Pretty sure the Jewish people had to during that conflict.
So what?

Do you really want to make a ranking of who had it the worst? Did you not learn the lesson from this war?

Anyone who got persecuted, period, has been a victim, equally.

I'm not gay, I'm not a gipsy, I'm not a jew. I find it equally bad to have persecuted any of them, at all. I absolutely can't stand this whole *** of only talking and being sad about the jews when it comes to WW2.

Everyone suffered, period. Making a ranking of who suffered the most is down right wrong.

Everyone was targeted, these groups are just the core of the hate, they aren't all the hate that was given. This is why WW2 wasn't based on religion alone, not even as the core, it's only part of it.

And even then, I think the core was just about anyone in Nazis' path. I really don't like the "we should be sad for X and Y group". We should be sad for humanity.

Let me see if I can get a grasp on what you're saying though... If there were say only 1 million combined gypsies/homosexuals/war criminals/communists whatever interned during Germany's invasions of Europe but millions upon millions of Jewish folks (Idk the honest numbers), you wouldn't feel worse for the Jewish folks? I would. Yes they all suffered, but you wouldn't feel for those who have suffered and been through worse, more?
Why would I? That's unfair and that's helping create future hatred between the people who suffered.

The way you are thinking, you'll go help and support those with the most deaths and not care about the ones that had "little" loss. I can't find any other word than "wrong" to describe this.

"Sorry, you are a gipsy, only 500,000 of you died while this guy who is jew lost 2,000,000 of his friends. You aren't worth my time, I'll only talk about him and his people, not you".

Armenians suffered a genocide too. How can you read about WW2 and be like "ok, I'll choose to support this community, they lost more, it makes sense"? A genocide is a genocide, period.

Bottom line is, you cannot rank people's suffering in general. As a human, you should feel bad as soon as there is persecution against anyone, not pick who has the highest score.

What....? I never said I would support one over the other. I simply said empathize/sympathize more....
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-04-23 12:57:58
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Siren.Flavin said: »
Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
LETS NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS MOTIVES
*Uncontrollable coughs with laughter.*
What has the world come to?!?! now the moderators are contributing to the mocking! lol...
I'm human just like you are. I can exert emotions when the time is needed. :o
Moderators are not humans!!! in any case I was just making light of how you usually come in to shut down a thread when it gets like that instead of contributing...

Some of my favorite people on this site are mods! You guys should have seen Aly before the "man" kicked down the door and told us all to behave ;3
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 Fenrir.Camiie
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2013-04-23 13:01:27
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
No one attacks christians because they're christians.

So no Christian has ever been attacked simply for being the wrong religion in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Quote:
They're attacked if and when they do/say something stupid. Believing otherwise is calling having a persecution complex, which is a common trait many religious people have, especially the ones who take their religion too seriously.

Some postings I saw on a local news site went something like this:

"I pray for the family and friends of the victims."

"What good is praying to your mythical sky god going to do anyone?"

Quote:
That said, the christian belief is attacked and ridiculed regularly and that is very justifiable.

So it's justifiable to attack and ridicule someone based on their religious beliefs? You sure that's how you want the world to work?
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 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-04-23 13:03:07
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I'm sure they just want religion to disappear all together... but since that won't ever happen (at least not any time soon) they close their eyes and plug their ears and point the finger to blame everyone around them...
 Ragnarok.Zohnax
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By Ragnarok.Zohnax 2013-04-23 13:03:20
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Fenrir.Camiie said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
No one attacks christians because they're christians.

So no Christian has ever been attacked simply for being the wrong religion in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Quote:
They're attacked if and when they do/say something stupid. Believing otherwise is calling having a persecution complex, which is a common trait many religious people have, especially the ones who take their religion too seriously.

Some postings I saw on a local news site went something like this:

"I pray for the family and friends of the victims."

"What good is praying to your mythical sky god going to do anyone?"

Quote:
That said, the christian belief is attacked and ridiculed regularly and that is very justifiable.

So it's justifiable to attack and ridicule someone based on their religious beliefs? You sure that's how you want the world to work?
If the belief causes harm and discrimination to other people, sure. :3
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 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-04-23 13:04:54
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Odin.Eikechi said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
You left out that they rounded up Gypsies too. Yes, I get all of that. But who was the major group that was not only FIRST persecuted but mainly persecuted? The Jewish people. Did the homosexual people in the concentration camps have to wear a defining symbol around their neck? Did they have to wear a Star of David, or anything else, letting everybody around them know they were homosexual? Did they have to put stars on their windows to let people know they were gay? Pretty sure the Jewish people had to during that conflict.
So what?

Do you really want to make a ranking of who had it the worst? Did you not learn the lesson from this war?

Anyone who got persecuted, period, has been a victim, equally.

I'm not gay, I'm not a gipsy, I'm not a jew. I find it equally bad to have persecuted any of them, at all. I absolutely can't stand this whole *** of only talking and being sad about the jews when it comes to WW2.

Everyone suffered, period. Making a ranking of who suffered the most is down right wrong.

Everyone was targeted, these groups are just the core of the hate, they aren't all the hate that was given. This is why WW2 wasn't based on religion alone, not even as the core, it's only part of it.

And even then, I think the core was just about anyone in Nazis' path. I really don't like the "we should be sad for X and Y group". We should be sad for humanity.

Let me see if I can get a grasp on what you're saying though... If there were say only 1 million combined gypsies/homosexuals/war criminals/communists whatever interned during Germany's invasions of Europe but millions upon millions of Jewish folks (Idk the honest numbers), you wouldn't feel worse for the Jewish folks? I would. Yes they all suffered, but you wouldn't feel for those who have suffered and been through worse, more?
Why would I? That's unfair and that's helping create future hatred between the people who suffered.

The way you are thinking, you'll go help and support those with the most deaths and not care about the ones that had "little" loss. I can't find any other word than "wrong" to describe this.

"Sorry, you are a gipsy, only 500,000 of you died while this guy who is jew lost 2,000,000 of his friends. You aren't worth my time, I'll only talk about him and his people, not you".

Armenians suffered a genocide too. How can you read about WW2 and be like "ok, I'll choose to support this community, they lost more, it makes sense"? A genocide is a genocide, period.

Bottom line is, you cannot rank people's suffering in general. As a human, you should feel bad as soon as there is persecution against anyone, not pick who has the highest score.

What....? I never said I would support one over the other. I simply said empathize/sympathize more....
Which is the same thing, and is down right wrong, here is why:

You don't empathize/sympathize more. You do it, that's it. If you show more empathy toward jews than gipsies, gipsies will feel like nobody care about their loss, jews will play their martyr role for decades and decades and...

And then you are in 2013 with this situation, because too many people thought like you. Gipsies are angry, armenians are beyond angry at this point and so on.

"90% of the jews died while only 50% of the muslim world was killed. Of course I'm more sad for the jews than the muslims."

If you don't see what is wrong with that, then I don't know what to tell you.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-04-23 13:05:49
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »

Where in the hell do you hear Christians saying those horrible things besides in your imagination?

Here's my issue with your angry attitude. In the last entire thread on the Boston bombing that killed innocent people, maimed many others and destoryed the lives of so many people, I heard no outrage towards the fanatical Muslims that actually did it becuase of their religion, infact I heard defense of their religion. Now over these two idiots that let their own child die I hear you absolutely tearing Christianity a new a-hole. You probably would have hated their child anyway, he was Christian afterall.

1) Do you really ignore everything that doesn't match up with what you want to believe

Quote:
Wiles: You know at precisely the same time the Supreme Court is hearing these arguments on same-sex marriage in Asia a crazy man in possession of nuclear weapons, Kim Jong-un, is openly saying: I have ordered our military to position our rockets on US targets in Hawaii, Japan, Guam and the mainland of the United States. He has gone into a full state of war this week. I don’t know, Pastor Luter, I don’t know if anybody is — I know they’re not — they’re just not putting this together. You got this happening over here and you got this happening over here: could the two be connected? Could our slide into immorality be what is unleashing this mad man over here in Asia to punish us?

Luter: It could be a possibility, I’m not that strong in prophecy but I would not be surprised that there’s not a connection there simply because of the fact we’ve seen it happen in scripture before. I would not be surprised that at the time when we are debating same-sex marriage, at a time when we are debating whether or not we should have gays leading the Boy Scout movement, I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that we have a mad man in Asia who is saying some of the things that he’s saying.

Read more: http://www.towleroad.com/2013/04/luter.html#ixzz2RJIKRhUQ

http://abpnews.com/culture/social-issues/item/7918-pastor-has-harsh-words-for-gays-supporters#.UXbK9bWUSW4
Quote:
A Maryland pastor featured in a viral video saying people who support gay marriage are “worthy of death” just completed two terms on the SBC Executive Committee.


YouTube Video Placeholder


Quote:
"Build a great, big, large fence -- 150 or 100 mile long -- put all the lesbians in there -- Do the same thing for the *** and the homosexuals and have that fence electrified so they can't get out...and you know what, in a few years, they'll die out...do you know why? They can't reproduce!"


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/21/westboro-baptist-church-picket-funeral-woman-kille/

Quote:
GOD SENT THE BOMBS IN FURY OVER *** MARRIAGE! #PraiseGod

Uganda


2.) Islam sucks too
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 Fenrir.Camiie
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2013-04-23 13:08:56
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Ragnarok.Zohnax said: »
If the belief causes harm and discrimination to other people, sure. :3

That's a distinction that isn't necessarily being made here, and often isn't.
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By Asura.Domz 2013-04-23 13:10:44
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an honest question that has nothing to do with the religion flame war going on.

they were on a ten year probation for letting a child die. Why the *** wasn't someone checking up on them on a weekly basis?
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 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-23 13:11:20
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »

I think that's a pretty big stretch but ok. It's not like other religious groups aren't getting aid or anything in times of crisis. Let's take religion out of this example and change it up a bit. In an explosion do you feel worse for the guy that walked away with just a gash on his arm, or the person who lost limbs? They were both victims, but come on man, one person is now without limbs and have their quality of life altered. There are varying degrees of sympathy that don't equate to complete alienation of type of people.
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2013-04-23 13:15:00
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Asura.Domz said: »
an honest question that has nothing to do with the religion flame war going on.

they were on a ten year probation for letting a child die. Why the *** wasn't someone checking up on them on a weekly basis?

Good question. I can only hope that there's an investigation into why the system failed this child, but the cynic in me doesn't have much faith in the state to police itself.
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-04-23 13:17:07
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Asura.Domz said: »
an honest question that has nothing to do with the religion flame war going on. they were on a ten year probation for letting a child die. Why the *** wasn't someone checking up on them on a weekly basis?
I can't honestly say... It all depends on how that was worked out in their probation... It's a possibility that there was no one checking up on them at all...
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-04-23 13:17:59
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Odin.Eikechi said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »

I think that's a pretty big stretch but ok. It's not like other religious groups aren't getting aid or anything in times of crisis. Let's take religion out of this example and change it up a bit. In an explosion do you feel worse for the guy that walked away with just a gash on his arm, or the person who lost limbs? They were both victims, but come on man, one person is now without limbs and have their quality of life altered. There are varying degrees of sympathy that don't equate to complete alienation of type of people.
I thought about that, but that's a terrible example.

People died. This is the start and the end of the argument. You cannot be more sad for this or that community, all of them had deaths, all of them experienced the same loss. What is above death? I'm asking because they all got that, no exception. So let's compare apples and apples, now that you understand that number was a bad idea.

As simple as that. Now, if you want to say that gipsies, armenians or gays were the ones who got gashes on their arms whereas jews lost limbs, that's your choice, but you should be able to understand that it's just as wrong.

Can apply any example, doesn't make it less wrong.
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-04-23 13:21:10
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Odin.Eikechi said: »
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
I think that's a pretty big stretch but ok. It's not like other religious groups aren't getting aid or anything in times of crisis. Let's take religion out of this example and change it up a bit. In an explosion do you feel worse for the guy that walked away with just a gash on his arm, or the person who lost limbs? They were both victims, but come on man, one person is now without limbs and have their quality of life altered. There are varying degrees of sympathy that don't equate to complete alienation of type of people.
What if the guy with the gash on his arm could no longer function because the shock of the injury and the death around him *** his head up to the extent that he could no longer live his life and is constantly haunted by the incident... you could make up quite a few different scenarios really... it is however kinda offensive to sit there and tell someone well... idc about you as much because well that guy suffered more... to each his own though...
 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-04-23 13:24:32
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This kinda also goes back to the importance of treating "everyone" and not "select" people in a population. I completely understand the freedom of religion. However there does come a point, where refusing to treat someone actually becomes a burden on public health.

Looking at the symptoms of both these children, these parents were posing a threat to the public health NOT just their own children. Pneumonia is contagious, not enough info on second child. These parents were refusing treatment on communicable diseases and therefore were probably infecting numerous individuals.

By treating a communicable disease, you are generally reducing the transmission rate to others.
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-04-23 13:25:21
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Just stop. You can't form an analogy for genocide without undermining it. Genocide is not losing an arm or having a gash on your face. Genocide is genocide.
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 Carbuncle.Sterling
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By Carbuncle.Sterling 2013-04-23 13:29:23
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Fenrir.Camiie said: »
Asura.Domz said: »
an honest question that has nothing to do with the religion flame war going on.

they were on a ten year probation for letting a child die. Why the *** wasn't someone checking up on them on a weekly basis?

Good question. I can only hope that there's an investigation into why the system failed this child, but the cynic in me doesn't have much faith in the state to police itself.

There may have been someone checking on them from CPS, but since it had been 10 years since the passing of their first child, its possible that they were out of that radar. The number of people that CPS has to check on in a month is honestly staggering (even in just a county-wide area), and they are rarely at the office if only to meet up with coworkers to leave again- not to mention that the turn-over rate for the job is high and they are constantly under-staffed. People are also dodgey as hell with CPS workers. They lie, they run off when case workers show up, they teach their kids to lie, they put on fake personas; hide the meth and clean up their act when they're around. If CPS was checking up on them, they'd have to have caught them sometime in the critical last stages of the child's illness which can be only a few days. That's a pretty small window and the time between CPS visits can be months.
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