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2nd child dies after parents choose prayer
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-23 11:51:24
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The whole purpose of this thread was to bash religion, specifically Christianity. Can we just be honest about that? In a world of what 7 billion people you're all gonna pretend to be effected and upset aout these two idiots. This thread was just a gateway to attack religion. Get it out of your system. Go read something else on the internet and get all upset about something that has zero effect on your lives. So nobody can feel compassion for the loss of others, especially when it's due to sheer stupidity? K.. Coming in and stating/agreeing that most of the worlds problems stem from religion has nothing to do with compassion for the loss of others... it's more about projecting one's distaste for a group of people... I may have missed it but I don't really see many if any offering condolences to anyone... it's more just calling the parents idiots or whatnot and bashing religion lol... Yes I know my first comment was not in that trend, but some people here aren't just mindlessly bashing religion. But can you provide evidence that a lot of problems in the world are NOT caused by religion? I mean I realize there are some like energy sources and the economy obviously, but a lot of the major conflicts of the world and it's history have been religiously influenced. Can you dispute that? I can dispute that actually... very easily too... just take a look at American history...
American history =/= all of the world's history though. And you simply saying "very easily" doesn't give examples either way.
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 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2013-04-23 11:54:53
No one attacks christians because they're christians. They're attacked if and when they do/say something stupid.
The irony is that you're saying something stupid right here. I've been verbally abused my whole life without even opening my mouth. I've had people make assumptions, or laugh in my face, just hearing that I've had associations with the church at all.
Even before I explain why I did the things I did, and their undisputable benefit to society, clowns like you make unfair generalizations and somehow claim that "someone else" sounds ignorant.
I was assuming I was in the mists of people over the age of 15. 'No one' is a hyperbole and I'm justified in doing so because I was making a case for the overall picture. I shouldn't have to say "in 99.99% of cases" as if I was talking to a bunch of children.
Also, coming back at me with an anecdotal doesn't really make a strong case.
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-04-23 11:58:30
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »People can whitewash the facts if they want.
The Crusades were just territorial disputes, 9/11 was purely a political statement made by a hand of Saudi hijackers, homophobic bigots are just mentally lacking etc etc.
Or you can address the religious elements without calling everyone in that group a radicalized fundamentalist. We have nuances for a reason. Use em.
The very definition of crusade is a sort of a holy war. Yeah, territorial disputes to take back a "holy land". Yes it was religious in nature. How about WW2? That had religion written all over it. At least the European front did. Crusades were a holy war. Whether it is through stories or reality, I don't remember religion not being the base motivation/reason for them.
WW2 is special. While many people were killed due to their religion, people spend too much time only remembering that part, so much that in the end in the mind of people WW2 boils down to the extermination of jews and that's all. Much more than this happened.
WW2 was all about hate and domination, I don't think religion is the base for any of these at least not in western EU.
They included homosexual and other mentally deficient people in the same bag, which by itself shows that it was all about free hate and domination, not religion specifically.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-23 12:02:09
You left out that they rounded up Gypsies too. Yes, I get all of that. But who was the major group that was not only FIRST persecuted but mainly persecuted? The Jewish people. Did the homosexual people in the concentration camps have to wear a defining symbol around their neck? Did they have to wear a Star of David, or anything else, letting everybody around them know they were homosexual? Did they have to put stars on their windows to let people know they were gay? Pretty sure the Jewish people had to during that conflict.
By Kimble2013 2013-04-23 12:05:19
why does anyone respond to Amandarius anymore? I think hes made it pretty clear he only goes into threads with the intent to start ***.
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-04-23 12:07:43
You left out that they rounded up Gypsies too. Yes, I get all of that. But who was the major group that was not only FIRST persecuted but mainly persecuted? The Jewish people. Did the homosexual people in the concentration camps have to wear a defining symbol around their neck? Did they have to wear a Star of David, or anything else, letting everybody around them know they were homosexual? Did they have to put stars on their windows to let people know they were gay? Pretty sure the Jewish people had to during that conflict. So what?
Do you really want to make a ranking of who had it the worst? Did you not learn the lesson from this war?
Anyone who got persecuted, period, has been a victim, equally.
I'm not gay, I'm not a gipsy, I'm not a jew. I find it equally bad to have persecuted any of them, at all. I absolutely can't stand this whole *** of only talking and being sad about the jews when it comes to WW2.
Everyone suffered, period. Making a ranking of who suffered the most is down right wrong.
Everyone was targeted, these groups are just the core of the hate, they aren't all the hate that was given. This is why WW2 wasn't based on religion alone, not even as the core, it's only part of it.
And even then, I think the core was just about anyone in Nazis' path. I really don't like the "we should be sad for X and Y group". We should be sad for humanity.
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Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-04-23 12:12:01
You left out that they rounded up Gypsies too. Yes, I get all of that. But who was the major group that was not only FIRST persecuted but mainly persecuted? The Jewish people. Did the homosexual people in the concentration camps have to wear a defining symbol around their neck? Did they have to wear a Star of David, or anything else, letting everybody around them know they were homosexual? Did they have to put stars on their windows to let people know they were gay? Pretty sure the Jewish people had to during that conflict.
Gypsies had to wear a brown upside down triangle
Political prisoners wore red (communists, trade unionists, Social Democrats)
Asocials (some gypsies, vagrants, nonconformists) wore black
Homosexuals had to wear a pink upside down triangle
Criminals wore green inverted triangles
Jehovah's Witnesses - Purple
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-04-23 12:14:57
Also page 3 of a religion thread and we're already on the Holocaust! You all did not waste any time!
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-23 12:15:03
You left out that they rounded up Gypsies too. Yes, I get all of that. But who was the major group that was not only FIRST persecuted but mainly persecuted? The Jewish people. Did the homosexual people in the concentration camps have to wear a defining symbol around their neck? Did they have to wear a Star of David, or anything else, letting everybody around them know they were homosexual? Did they have to put stars on their windows to let people know they were gay? Pretty sure the Jewish people had to during that conflict.
Gypsies had to wear a brown upside down triangle
Political prisoners wore red (communists, trade unionists, Social Democrats)
Asocials (some gypsies, vagrants, nonconformists) wore black
Homosexuals had to wear a pink upside down triangle
Criminals wore green inverted triangles
Jehovah's Witnesses - Purple
Fair enough point Sylow. Thank you, because I didn't know about that. We only got taught about the Jewish aspect of things in school. I do honestly appreciate the knowledge.
 Asura.Ina
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By Asura.Ina 2013-04-23 12:17:15
Did the homosexual people in the concentration camps have to wear a defining symbol around their neck? I believe they had to wear pink triangles
Edit: Beaten
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-04-23 12:17:28
I'm curious what aspects of ww2 were not about religion? nazi-ism is a radical imperialistic religion, Japanese imperialism was a state religion.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-23 12:17:29
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »You left out that they rounded up Gypsies too. Yes, I get all of that. But who was the major group that was not only FIRST persecuted but mainly persecuted? The Jewish people. Did the homosexual people in the concentration camps have to wear a defining symbol around their neck? Did they have to wear a Star of David, or anything else, letting everybody around them know they were homosexual? Did they have to put stars on their windows to let people know they were gay? Pretty sure the Jewish people had to during that conflict. So what?
Do you really want to make a ranking of who had it the worst? Did you not learn the lesson from this war?
Anyone who got persecuted, period, has been a victim, equally.
I'm not gay, I'm not a gipsy, I'm not a jew. I find it equally bad to have persecuted any of them, at all. I absolutely can't stand this whole *** of only talking and being sad about the jews when it comes to WW2.
Everyone suffered, period. Making a ranking of who suffered the most is down right wrong.
Everyone was targeted, these groups are just the core of the hate, they aren't all the hate that was given. This is why WW2 wasn't based on religion alone, not even as the core, it's only part of it.
And even then, I think the core was just about anyone in Nazis' path. I really don't like the "we should be sad for X and Y group". We should be sad for humanity.
Let me see if I can get a grasp on what you're saying though... If there were say only 1 million combined gypsies/homosexuals/war criminals/communists whatever interned during Germany's invasions of Europe but millions upon millions of Jewish folks (Idk the honest numbers), you wouldn't feel worse for the Jewish folks? I would. Yes they all suffered, but you wouldn't feel for those who have suffered and been through worse, more?
Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-04-23 12:26:34
No one attacks christians because they're christians. They're attacked if and when they do/say something stupid.
The irony is that you're saying something stupid right here. I've been verbally abused my whole life without even opening my mouth. I've had people make assumptions, or laugh in my face, just hearing that I've had associations with the church at all.
Even before I explain why I did the things I did, and their undisputable benefit to society, clowns like you make unfair generalizations and somehow claim that "someone else" sounds ignorant.
I was assuming I was in the mists of people over the age of 15. 'No one' is a hyperbole and I'm justified in doing so because I was making a case for the overall picture. I shouldn't have to say "in 99.99% of cases" as if I was talking to a bunch of children.
Also, coming back at me with an anecdotal doesn't really make a strong case.
That's the thing, though. I'm not the .01% (yes I get that you were exaggerating again). I'm not even the 25%. I'm not going to invent statistics but you clearly don't realize how prevalent religious discrimination is.
You also use the term "justified" frequently. I couldn't care less about this argument aside from the statements I made in the first post. I just notice that you make a point to take off your fedora to post in every single one of these threads, and you happen to fit into the part that I bolded.
If you're going to be as, or more, zealous than the average religious person: at least take the time to not sound like relgion touched your no-no spot when you were 5.
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Carbuncle.Sterling
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By Carbuncle.Sterling 2013-04-23 12:32:03
It just hurts me to think about these parents standing there watching their kids die, though. Pneumonia and respiratory distress is a totally terrifying way to die. Your lungs fill with fluid and you suffocate. That or you go into septic shock and suffer cardiac arrest. Pretty disgusting to think that they watched it happen and did nothing to prevent it.
Lakshmi.Aelius
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By Lakshmi.Aelius 2013-04-23 12:33:47
God clearly didn't want these two to have children. Nuff said.
Politics and religion should remain separate within this thread please.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-04-23 12:34:26
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The whole purpose of this thread was to bash religion, specifically Christianity. Can we just be honest about that? In a world of what 7 billion people you're all gonna pretend to be effected and upset aout these two idiots. This thread was just a gateway to attack religion. Get it out of your system. Go read something else on the internet and get all upset about something that has zero effect on your lives.
Right, cause religion has no effect on my life as a self-identified skeptic. Christianity gets attacked here because lo and behold most people here deal with Christians - namely the radical, Bible-beating, the founders were evangelicals, racism is OK, we gonna kill sum gays Christians.
Radical Islam is on the fringe of everyday life unless you turn the TV on and then you'll be led to believe that RADICULS R EVERYWHERE.
Where in the hell do you hear Christians saying those horrible things besides in your imagination?
Here's my issue with your angry attitude. In the last entire thread on the Boston bombing that killed innocent people, maimed many others and destoryed the lives of so many people, I heard no outrage towards the fanatical Muslims that actually did it becuase of their religion, infact I heard defense of their religion. Now over these two idiots that let their own child die I hear you absolutely tearing Christianity a new a-hole. You probably would have hated their child anyway, he was Christian afterall.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-23 12:35:53
God clearly didn't want these two to have children. Nuff said.
Politics and religion should remain separate within this thread please.
But the section is called politics and religion :(.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-04-23 12:36:13
why does anyone respond to Amandarius anymore? I think hes made it pretty clear he only goes into threads with the intent to start ***.
Why don't you try to respond to me and tell me how I'm wrong instead of heckling me and leaving? It's the internet, at least here you can be a little brave.
Lakshmi.Aelius
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By Lakshmi.Aelius 2013-04-23 12:36:40
God clearly didn't want these two to have children. Nuff said.
Politics and religion should remain separate within this thread please.
But the section is called politics and religion :(.
This is a religion thread. Not a political one that seems to set a few people off.
 Gilgamesh.Schmule
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By Gilgamesh.Schmule 2013-04-23 12:38:33
Politics and religion should remain separate within this thread please.
I don't think Americans are capable of that, especially during Elections.
... Present company excepted of course!
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By volkom 2013-04-23 12:38:42
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-23 12:39:55
Gilgamesh.Schmule said: »Politics and religion should remain separate within this thread please.
I don't think Americans are capable of that, especially during Elections.
... Present company excepted of course!
That's a pretty unfair generalization though :(.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-04-23 12:40:49
Carbuncle.Sterling said: »It just hurts me to think about these parents standing there watching their kids die, though. Pneumonia and respiratory distress is a totally terrifying way to die. Your lungs fill with fluid and you suffocate. That or you go into septic shock and suffer cardiac arrest. Pretty disgusting to think that they watched it happen and did nothing to prevent it.
that's the key here, they did nothing. zealots like to pretend that science/medicine and faith are opposites in an a/b argument and they just aren't.
"we went the faith route" is not analogous to "we went with alternative medicine", its analogous to "we sat on our thumbs and let our child suffer and die".
you can't spout out crap from a 2000+ year old book of questionable origins and pretend you're in the same debate as the medical/scientific community. its like watching the tour de france from your stationery bike and pretending you're in the race.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-04-23 12:41:32
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Where in the hell do you hear Christians saying those horrible things besides in your imagination?
Here's my issue with your angry attitude. In the last entire thread on the Boston bombing that killed innocent people, maimed many others and destoryed the lives of so many people, I heard no outrage towards the fanatical Muslims that actually did it becuase of their religion, infact I heard defense of their religion. Now over these two idiots that let their own child die I hear you absolutely tearing Christianity a new a-hole. You probably would have hated their child anyway, he was Christian afterall. No you didn't.
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-04-23 12:44:44
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »You left out that they rounded up Gypsies too. Yes, I get all of that. But who was the major group that was not only FIRST persecuted but mainly persecuted? The Jewish people. Did the homosexual people in the concentration camps have to wear a defining symbol around their neck? Did they have to wear a Star of David, or anything else, letting everybody around them know they were homosexual? Did they have to put stars on their windows to let people know they were gay? Pretty sure the Jewish people had to during that conflict. So what?
Do you really want to make a ranking of who had it the worst? Did you not learn the lesson from this war?
Anyone who got persecuted, period, has been a victim, equally.
I'm not gay, I'm not a gipsy, I'm not a jew. I find it equally bad to have persecuted any of them, at all. I absolutely can't stand this whole *** of only talking and being sad about the jews when it comes to WW2.
Everyone suffered, period. Making a ranking of who suffered the most is down right wrong.
Everyone was targeted, these groups are just the core of the hate, they aren't all the hate that was given. This is why WW2 wasn't based on religion alone, not even as the core, it's only part of it.
And even then, I think the core was just about anyone in Nazis' path. I really don't like the "we should be sad for X and Y group". We should be sad for humanity.
Let me see if I can get a grasp on what you're saying though... If there were say only 1 million combined gypsies/homosexuals/war criminals/communists whatever interned during Germany's invasions of Europe but millions upon millions of Jewish folks (Idk the honest numbers), you wouldn't feel worse for the Jewish folks? I would. Yes they all suffered, but you wouldn't feel for those who have suffered and been through worse, more? Why would I? That's unfair and that's helping create future hatred between the people who suffered.
The way you are thinking, you'll go help and support those with the most deaths and not care about the ones that had "little" loss. I can't find any other word than "wrong" to describe this.
"Sorry, you are a gipsy, only 500,000 of you died while this guy who is jew lost 2,000,000 of his friends. You aren't worth my time, I'll only talk about him and his people, not you".
Armenians suffered a genocide too. How can you read about WW2 and be like "ok, I'll choose to support this community, they lost more, it makes sense"? A genocide is a genocide, period.
Bottom line is, you cannot rank people's suffering in general. As a human, you should feel bad as soon as there is persecution against anyone, not pick who has the highest score.
Gilgamesh.Schmule
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By Gilgamesh.Schmule 2013-04-23 12:45:56
Gilgamesh.Schmule said: »Politics and religion should remain separate within this thread please.
I don't think Americans are capable of that, especially during Elections.
... Present company excepted of course!
That's a pretty unfair generalization though :(.
It is, (it really is). Although, there is some truth in it....
Valefor.Esdain
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By Valefor.Esdain 2013-04-23 12:46:28
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-04-23 12:46:31
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Where in the hell do you hear Christians saying those horrible things besides in your imagination?
Here's my issue with your angry attitude. In the last entire thread on the Boston bombing that killed innocent people, maimed many others and destoryed the lives of so many people, I heard no outrage towards the fanatical Muslims that actually did it becuase of their religion, infact I heard defense of their religion. Now over these two idiots that let their own child die I hear you absolutely tearing Christianity a new a-hole. You probably would have hated their child anyway, he was Christian afterall. No you didn't. Has there even been any information released that clarifies the motives for the bombing? We know he's Muslim so the assumption is radical Islamic fundamentalism, but it's my understanding that the kid can't really talk at the moment (missing part of his face and all).
LETS NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS MOTIVES
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-04-23 12:47:26
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The whole purpose of this thread was to bash religion, specifically Christianity. Can we just be honest about that? In a world of what 7 billion people you're all gonna pretend to be effected and upset aout these two idiots. This thread was just a gateway to attack religion. Get it out of your system. Go read something else on the internet and get all upset about something that has zero effect on your lives. So nobody can feel compassion for the loss of others, especially when it's due to sheer stupidity? K.. Coming in and stating/agreeing that most of the worlds problems stem from religion has nothing to do with compassion for the loss of others... it's more about projecting one's distaste for a group of people... I may have missed it but I don't really see many if any offering condolences to anyone... it's more just calling the parents idiots or whatnot and bashing religion lol... Yes I know my first comment was not in that trend, but some people here aren't just mindlessly bashing religion. But can you provide evidence that a lot of problems in the world are NOT caused by religion? I mean I realize there are some like energy sources and the economy obviously, but a lot of the major conflicts of the world and it's history have been religiously influenced. Can you dispute that? I can dispute that actually... very easily too... just take a look at American history... American history =/= all of the world's history though. And you simply saying "very easily" doesn't give examples either way. Oh I thought we were making the same kind of argument where you guys go off and say that religion is the cause of all the world's problems and give no examples to back that up so I just did the same ^^
Even when you tried to use WWII as an example (which is a part of american history) the religious, in this case, were victims... They didn't start the war nor did they egg it on... Or are you blaming their existence as the powderkeg that set the war off? in any case like others have pointed out there were persecuted in the same/similar matter...
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http://www.ibtimes.com/second-child-philadelphia-couple-dies-after-they-choose-prayer-instead-seeing-doctor-1210287
Quote: A Philadelphia couple violated probation after their second child died as a result of them turning to prayer instead of seeking a doctor when the child was ill.
Henry and Catherine Schaible violated probation after their second child died as the couple chose faith healing instead of medical care.
The Philadelphia couple was serving a 10-year probation sentence stemming from the death of their first child, after Herbert and Catherine Schaible prayed for their child instead of seeking medical care, reports the Associated Press.
The Schaibles belong to a fundamentalist Christian church, First Century Gospel Church, that practices faith healing, reports Philadelphia Daily News. The couple was on probation for the death of their 2-year-old son, Kent Schaible, who died of pneumonia in 2009. Herbert and Catherine Schaible pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter in 2011 and were sentenced to 10 years of probation, with one major component being the couple seek medical care for their children if they became sick, notes AP.
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I am at a loss for words.
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