IiPunch - Monk Guide

Agreed. I haven't done DNC or any other combinations, but MNK+NIN seems like a very favorable pair, if what you are going for is lowman, low tp feed, low damage mitigation. Obviously 2 Monks is better for lowering TP feed completely, but NIN provides the safety net for tanking, so I will stand on that there. As your video pointed out and I have experienced in the past several times, Ninja does insanely amazing as a hybrid DD/tank on Omen bosses; I've actually done Gin start to finish with just me DPS on Ninja (August or AAEV was tanking, idr). Had GEO COR BRD for buffs, but the amount of TP moves Gin got off was truly minimal. Great setup strat and I highly recommend it if you have good players.

So a gimpy NIN while "tanking" was able to do deal almost as much damage as a full DD MNK.... and this is taken as a positive thing for the MNK. Lordy no wonder people are lost and confused.

Here's some rope and a shovel, please continue.

Obsessing over min/max theorycrafting and parsing highest in a zerg is sad. Content originally required prioritizing survivability over kill speed, and I still remember when the toxic zerg ***mentality started. It sounds like the JP community still values balance, at least. Out of curiosity, do you obsess over min/maxing other parts of your life?

Who are you to demean what people actually enjoy doing in a game meant for enjoyment?

Actually trying to do your job role well is not a bad thing, regardless of what you seem to think. In this meta, killing as fast as possible often IS the same as prioritizing survivability, and no one is arguing that DPS as high as possible should always be your only concern. The "toxic" zerg mentality started because it was the most effective strategy for both win speed AND survivability in many cases.

SAM can actually hit 65 without really sacrificing much, DD-wise- it's just a bit pricey and requires a rare drop.

ItemSet 354486

If you're getting Auspice, it becomes quite easy.

From a subtle blow numbers perspective, anyone can hit it for sure, and I'm not really disputing that. But NIN also adds the unique ability to tank and deal great dps, while hitting the appropriate sublow criteria, and negating damage down to miniscule amounts. Migawari and shadows are amazing tools in Omen bosses (which is what we're talking about), and no other job can do the suble blow thing and provide damage mitigation to the same effect as NIN, along with pumping out decent contributing numbers. I singled out NIN + MNK as the preferred choice for lowman simply because it offers the best of both worlds and you lose nearly nothing from doing it that way.

Almost too much irony to believe in that post. "Meta" is just a trend set by a group of players, and with all the groups in this game there are multiple "metas" at any given time. Zerging was started by NA groups for the same reason they were more likely to choose WSimg solo at 100% rather than coordinating skillchains; it's easier and requires less coordination. They didn't choose this method for enjoyment, they chose it for ease and efficiency. They also tend to look down on anything other than the most machine-like theorycrafted 30 second strategy, and this is evident in their postings.

What's your current pooping strat? Consume only high-fiber food, idle in pants with tear-away butthole flap and no underwear, pre-buff by prairydogging en-route to toilet, midcast by squatting instead of sitting for chance at quickcast proc, re-equip idle set, quaff magnesium citrate temps to get ready for next encounter. I sometimes wonder if the same people pouring sweat over spreadsheets also min/max stuff like this for real.

That should your hearing, it's the sound of the point flying over your heads.

Casting spells mid-combat nerfs anyone's damage, using JA's also nerfs damage just not by as much and if the JA's are offensive (Berserk / Meditate / Hasso / Sneak Attack) it could be a net gain. A ninja tanking anything would be casting spells and in Yonin mode, which effectively nerfs their damage by nearly half. Innin is ~that~ good and casting Utsusemi is ~that~ bad for damage.

Thus in that context the DD should of absolutely crushed the Ninja in damage, we're talking 70:30 type splits here. Instead they are within 30% of each other, which is *really* embarrassing for the DD. And yet ... people cheer it on and think it's evidence supporting MNK. That's the irony here, it's like taking a gold medalist in your neighborhood special Olympics and saying their good enough to compete nationally.

But hey you can win anything with the power of friendship, you just need to care!

Its not a bad thing if you keep it to yourself.

IMO, its bad for the community if the mentality goes beyond indiviual and make the game less fun for the others.

"You are not allowed to play any dd job except war drk sam"

"Go level war drk sam, lol mnk"

"If you parse low, come geo cor brd"

or worst yet "this player is bad because they never win parse(even if that player is a nice person and do their job in pt)"

I see it all the time, and THAT is toxic. And probably what people refer to when they said min maxing is toxic, it does lead to many toxic behavior in game.

Coronach RNG also gets 55 SB without giving up anything really. 2x Chirich Rings +1 + 8 STP augmented herculean boots + Sherida Earring.

First I load up my pooping Excel spreadsheet. Then I do a fiber/per ounce formula. Find a newspaper with a sports section. Then I hold on for dear life !

nin and rng feed more tp than sam or war if gearing for SB

nothing is even remotely close to MNK with penance.. a DPS with 65 SB feeds 35% of their base rate

a MNK with 75 SB and penance feeds 16.25% of their base rate.. after accounting for delay difference the mnk is still under half of next lowest feed

i used 2 mnk for a couple wave2 bosses for the hell of it, and found the fights to be incredibly easy that way(25-30 seconds between tp moves.. nothing one shots back line so it gave a ridiculous amount of time to heal them back up and was never in any danger)

not saying it's the best way to do wave2 bosses, especially with wave3 having such a harsh dps check, but for a group struggling they really do have value

continue with the max damage mnk will never have any value gtfo circle jerk, tho

This might be the greatest thing ever written in the history of FFXIAH. It should be preserved so further generations can enjoy it for the lols.

Another good comparison is with 0 Subtle Blow. People who don't value Subtle Blow might not bother with Auspice or any gear with Subtle Blow. You're literally giving 6x as much TP as a max Subtle Blow II penance Monk. I feel Monk is actually better in most fights where you can tolerate the DPS loss because it truly does make it much easier and smoother. The on paper DPS loss also isn't as bad in reality because you're getting hit with status effects much less frequently.

The meta is the way it is because it's been tested and experimented on enough for the quickest, most reliable, and the lowest requirement strategies are used most often; that's completely natural, and not a bad thing at all. In particular, melee zergs were focused upon because so many fights have drastic increases in difficulty if they last too long, so killing them before that point at all costs is often (depending on the particular enemy) both the fastest AND the safest way to win. People wanting to win often is the basis for their enjoyment, and for those people, the strategy that most facilitates victory is objectively the best one. People demeaning others for not following those strategies is completely different from the meta and the strategies themselves, and does not reflect upon it.

Also, if you can't tell the difference between min-maxing things like FFXI and min-maxing things like defecating, you clearly don't understand the former at all. People do it because they enjoy it, or because not doing it will on occasion make the difference between victory and loss. I have had a number of victories and losses that were to the wire, where someone min-maxing a bit better or worse would have made the difference.

If someone enjoys min-maxing tasks in real life, all the more power to them, but "pooping better" will never make a practical difference between success and failure of anything you're doing.

I'd argue that pooping better would have a greater impact on your quality of life versus killing an omen boss faster.

While there is a difference, the effective difference much smaller than the raw TP given for two factors.

First, a mob cannot have more than 3000 TP at a time, and cannot WS faster than their TP move cycles. For any group with more a couple DDs, this means that much of the excess TP feed isn't being used by the monster, and that most of that TP difference doesn't matter. If you have 6 melees that feed a total 3000 tp/second and the monster can only TP every 5 seconds, having 6 melees that feed a total of 500 TP per second is only a 16.6% lower mob TP rate. It also doesn't apply to any significant Regain sources mobs have.

Second, the jobs with substantial amounts of Subtle Blow (Monk, Ninja) hit very quickly compared to most jobs, which means their base amount of TP feed is significantly higher than slower attacking jobs. They still feed less, but the gap is smaller than just looking at Subtle Blow values would suggest.

I would argue the exact opposite, especially when talking about "min-maxing". Failing to min-max pooping isn't going to ever make you somehow fail at it, while it can for tasks such as FFXI.

Colon cancer disagrees

With 6 melee you're going to get TPed every 7 seconds for 3000 or every 10 seconds with 1000-1200 if looking at typical DPS vs MNK.

With 2, you're looking at getting TPed with 3000 every 10 seconds with typical DPS or 1300-1700 every 25-30 seconds with MNKs.

The amount of TP matters as well, because the primary risk in any fight is dying before you have a chance to react. Increasing potential reaction time by even a small amount drastically increases chances of success.

hey, some people have hemorrhoid problems

Normal melees do not feed anywhere close to 6 times as much as a monk, especially considering they can get Auspice and sometimes have small amounts of subtle blow as well (Niqmaddu Ring, for example). Monks and NINs attacking faster means the delay-independent part of TP gain matters more.

this topic is so aggravating, people who won't even take a few minutes to compare shooting it down because they're too good to need it

seriously, go kill something twice, once with mixed dps and once with mnks, the difference in tp moves is incredibly visible

I have tried it; it's just not 500%-700% different even when you have 1-2 DDs, and it's minimal when you have 6-9+.

Using mnk over war isnt going to make you fail at anything though, if theres exception to this its probably woc. Thats it.

Min maxing can be enjoyable depending on mood and who you play with.

I enjoy min maxing to certain degree, I use spreadsheet, theorycraft, and record every single VD run clear speed, then compare them just to see if there are ways to improve it. And usually whoever get into my speed run VD pt were happy with the result, because its vastly more efficient than other pt they've been to.

Is that the best ffxi lifestyle all the time? *** no.

In order to do runs that fast, 6/6 of player must be extremely elite, play certain job. RUN BRD COR must be able to dps at high end and mages needs to be extremely on point with debuffs. No mistakes can be made too. Missing any pieces of these puzzle the pt went from 3 min clear(top end clear speed) to 5(above avg clear speed).

And sometimes this kind of lifestyle is not fun if Im not in the mood for it(I can be lazy, or tired so not up to min max), or if one of the member has a more relaxed pov about ffxi.

90% of time min max not the ideal lifestyle because circumstances, so we will have to settle for slightly less, but acceptable result.

We dont always have to aim for that 3 min clears with 4 elite person DDing and one of them being a war, sometimes, having a mnk instead of war is totally alright. Even if that 3 min run become 4 min. FFXI isnt black and white.

If pt become 10 min run or even wipe with a mnk, then the problem isnt dps job.

While min max is certainly legit if you are fighting woc, or undergeared, or just up for the challenge because you and the pt feel like it. Min max EVERYTHING you do is too extreme, imo. I live and breathe ffxi theorycraft and min max on forums, even then in game I only ever pt seriously 10% of time.

It's also narrow minded to define min maxing exclusively as 'clearing content the quickest'. It depends on what you value for the situation. You could define it as what clears content the most reliably and in that case I would assert that Monk wins most small group melee content despite sometimes taking longer.

I feel like it's not worth discussing too much though. Anybody who doesn't see that there is value in reliability over speed isn't going to change their mind at this point.

Pretty much the sum of anything worth saying. Monks good enough to git r done, but not the murican way to be a couple seconds slower. You ain' first ur last etc

(do please boost(lol) h2h ws though plz!)

Oh and for the pooping min-maxing don't forget your add-ons like squatty potty and bidet+1

If the mob is a caster mob then it's more like every 9~12 seconds cycle time. I've described this over a dozen times now, global lockout applies to monsters just as much as it does to us. You want NM's to cast spells as often as possible because it locks them out of doing TP moves for (casting time + 3s), TP move lock them out for (charge time + 2s). When put together you'll notice a minimum cycle time of around 9s, with the rare occasion when they cast something like Dia or Flash and they are under 25% HP. This is why debuffs like Addle or Pinning are just godly for NM fights.

Also as to what Geriond was saying, monsters gain TP at a rate of (Our TP +30) per hit, meaning outside of SB / STP they always gain TP faster then we do. So someone who has a base TP gain of 140 per swing would feed the NM 170TP, again before Store TP or Subtle Blow. Someone who has a base TP gain of 50 per swing would geed the NM 80 TP per hit.

This results in the higher delay having a 170/140 = 1.2142 feed ratio while the low delay guy would have 80/50 = 1.6 feed ratio. The faster guy is feeding 1.6/1.2142 = 1.9427 or 94.27% more TP. Now Store TP and Subtle Blow change this, Store TP by raising the amount the player gains for the same amount of TP fed, while Subtle Blow lowers the amount of TP fed for the same amount of TP gained. The worst TP offenders are by far THF's and melee COR's, the in the middle you have the heavy DD's and BLU which while having low subtle blow have very high store TP, and then at the end you have DNC, NIN's and MNK's which tend to have really high subtle blow and moderate store TP. Lower delay has always been bad for feeding TP just because that's how the TP gain formula for monsters works.

Also heavy DD's don't run around in 0 Subtle blow, there is always some small amount of various gear they are using anyway. 5~10 is a pretty common amount, no where close to MNK's ridiculousness or even NIN's but shouldn't be completely ignored when doing comparisons.

you guys keep falling back on delay differences, but i already posted the full math behind war vs mnk tp feed a few arguments ago

it is still not even remotely close, mnk blows away every other job in tp fed


edit: found it

Your numbers weren't entirely correct because they failed to take into consideration NM AI and how TP is used by the NM, plus you used a maxed out MNK vs a strawman DD to come up with silly 500~700% numbers.

Max SB MNK does indeed feed very little TP, just not on the scale being tossed around. I've very aware of exactly how little because while back I went on a "Make MNK Great Again" campaign and dumped a lot of effort into it. The results were middling and everything felt like a slow slog because of MNK's low DPS. Hell right now in our group we have one of the best DD's in the game, and that's not a exaggeration, doing a MNK project. Dude dumped hundreds of millions of gil into MNK, min maxed and super optimized all his sets and is now bringing it around to various events as a kind of challenge. No where near as powerful as his SAM / WAR / RUN, but still much better then any other MNK I've seen. So yes we've seen exactly how far MNK can be pushed and it's well short of where it needs to be.

One positive note, MNK can safely TP on statues in dynamis without fear of stomping everyone.