IiPunch - Monk Guide

You talking Warcry from /WAR? TBH that's only useful for hate because the attack buff is extremely small from sub, not worth using. And if you see a WAR main the party for all that is holy don't use your own Warcry, ever.

Warcry is 5 min recast (sans meriting), same 30 second duration. the larger issue is that Warrior is poised to make better use of it not to mention buffs party members around them. meanwhile, the gap between Monk and other DD jobs seems to have been shrunk ever so slightly because they either *** up Boost's implementation, or it's terribad for Weaponskills and the significant melee delay/interaction with other JAs renders it only an amusing joke for Relic holders. (imagine Barrage sucked, but you could still get those lulz damage procs from a Relic, and that's sort of what Boost currently is.)

overall, this update sounds massively underwhelming and I am glad I didn't get my hopes up for them doing anything other than disappointing.

Focus gives you accuracy you can't depend on/doesn't synergize well with the only sub job MNK can respectably use.

I get it, SE probably looked at July's Ambuscade and thought, we could make Focus something you use when you target the THF. It'll be dead in 30s or less, and, just in case the MNK doesn't need the accuracy, let's throw in... Critical hit rate also. It is like a 30s Kendatsuba JA.

JA delay eats about 10% of that 30s duration.
If you wanted to couple the benefits of Boost with Focus, you'd lose an additional 33% of Focus's duration.
The higher delay on H2H weapons means you'd get fewer attack rounds in over the course of Focus now than you would have prior to the update.

It's really terrible.

For some reason, the current team doesn't want to adjust the horrible Gifts given to MNK. Fine, in a way, the adjustments to every H2H weapon in the game (used or not, so fixing the framework of MNK would have been far more logical) addressed the stupidity of Martial Arts Gifts.
The adjustments to the weapons helped a little, even if we don't understand the logic behind how each individual weapon was boosted. It is strange to me that each weapon wasn't adjusted by the same %. Remember when players pointed out that Godhands looked better on paper than all of the other H2H, and SE responded that to fix Godhands, they would need to make every H2H worse rather than better? When the players were actually trying to help steer SE towards making everything more akin to Godhands? I feel like this change was more a punishment for pointing that out, raising everything up a little, but Godhands the least. A gain is still a gain, but I don't think SE is trying to do the players any favors.

What MNK needs is more damage and some full-time buff to compensate for the lack of a grip/off-hand.
The change to boost Primex mentioned, a no JA delay, 15s duration blitz of white damage every 60s probably wouldn't put MNK at the same level as the best DDs. But at least it would be satisfying and fun.
Add to that a full duration Focus and it would be serviceable.

But does monk NEED to be on the same lvl as the best DDs to be a competitive choice? Was it during delve content? Honest questions.

No, it doesn't.

No, it wasn't.

These people refuse to see the situation for what it is and are looking for a reason to be upset with SE. They've been looking for a reason since before the patch even came out.

The irony is that if they took the positive stance here, the tone of the entire thread would be different and people would be much more apt to include MNK.

As someone who multiboxes everything, I have no preexisting biases to deal with and I've been having a great time using my MNKs. The speed has been essentially unchanged as compared to other DD and fights are much more relaxed for me.

This isn't to say that MNK belongs in every fight. For something like Warder of Courage, where win rate is directly tied to kill speed, you will still want the highest DPS dd you can find. For Albumen and Omen, you're at essentially no risk of timing out(or adds waking), you'll have a much easier time on MNK than other jobs. For mid-tier content, ambuscade, and the like.. it's personal preference, but MNK certainly has draws.

I mean if it were able to pump out weaponskill numbers similar to drk, sam and war, is it possible it would be brokenly overpowered at that point? lol....

Monk is in the exact same position it was for me, still a master mnk, still using it when I want to.

Here's the thing; when square says they're going to do something and then doesn't, you people can't just go "eh oh well, guess we got ***, too bad!"

At least pretend like you care or they'll continue spoon feeding you piles of ***. Like they have been for years.

I guess I'm not ready to panic yet. If boost is broken, they'll fix it. It's not like anyone was using boost before the update anyway... And I'm not entirely certain that focus is as horrible as it sounds. It looks like every ~1:06 you get a 27 second buff (if JA delay is 10% of the 30 seconds) that increases damage and gives a ton of accuracy. That doesn't SEEM that bad so far.

If you mean fix it so it works with a WS without creating a delay, sure, people will use it. One adjusted (we don't even know how good it might be) weapon skill every minute is nothing to get excited about, though. But even if that one WS is 99k every minute, all other weapon skills would still average 16k with the best gear available. Be still my beating heart.

If you mean fix it so it doesn't give a delay with melee hits, sure, people will use it then, also. Even with no delay, the DPS increase wouldn't be substantial. But the current delay makes it a net loss for DPS, defeating the whole point.

They essentially updated Boost in a way that no one should still use it. /slow clap

My point regarding Focus is that, since the duration is so short, you have to gear without it as part of your build. You won't have it the majority of the time. And, whereas prior to the update, you could count on Focus and Aggressor working together to give you a constant, albeit too little, gain of accuracy, now MNKs drop lower than they have ever before.
True devouts could make Focus up/Aggressor up/Nothing up sets and alternate between them several times per minute. Unless fully automated, it'd be sloppy, not to mention an avoidable strain on inventory. It doesn't make MNK better, more fun or more attractive to use.

It was an update after two prior lackluster updates wherein they asked us not to give up on them--good things are coming. Where are the good things? Broken/Bugged/Not So Bad changes are unacceptable.

We might see some changes to the changes, though. The JP side of the official forums has movement.

I like your optimism. But I feel the need to point out there are 21 pages of bugs that have already been accepted and no word on when they will be dealt with... and that doesn't count all the things that are clearly messed up but they ignore or say is working as intended (until they magically finally realize it's a real problem hey there ws macc and geo stuff that got brushed off for years). Oh and that's just the English side.

It took them FOUR MONTHS to fix this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/52502-Spelling-Error
and it's just a simple spelling error.

It took TWO ENTIRE YEARS to finally "fix" GEO.

If you start holding your breath now for a Boost fix, you can breath again in 2023.

No it doesn't need to do the same damage as an ultra buffed WAR / SAM / DRK / DRG, but to be included it needs to do enough damage to be competitive with NIN / THF / DNC / BLU while also bringing something to the group in the form of utility. MNK was brought to delve solely for Formless Strikes as many of the initial NM's had uncommon damage mechanics and FS enabled the players to bypass them. The extra HP from Mantra was also useful in the early days when iLevel gear didn't exist and Delve MB's hit like trucks. The first MB to be toppled was Tojil who just also happened to drop these badass knuckles which further geared up the MNKs. We soon became used to just using MNK's and once a strategy is ingrained into the population it's extremely hard to change it. Took me awhile but eventually I got to come WAR/DRK to Morimar and BLU to Foret and Ceizek and was able to change everyone's mind instantly. Fully buffed Requiescat did the same thing FS did only much faster, and WAR/DRK absolutely destroyed NM's under full buffs. It took the game population over a year to catch on.

Mantra would be more useful if it lasted longer or had a shorter recast (5min would be ideal) along with adding some other effect besides just more HP. The increase to the DMG:Delay of H2H was a good start, it fixes the MA TP issue and raise's WS damage a bit. Next they need to update the H2H WS's to be viable.

Yeah, right now, if they just give Focus back to the 120/300 sec timer like it was before then it's a decent update. Before, we didn't use Boost or Dodge that much so nobody would care what they do with it. Mnk would still be dead-last but roughly 10% better than before.

Yeah this is the thing that makes absolutely no sense. Shortening the duration of an already established buff is a nerf no matter the circumstance.

It was better where it was.

Screw the crit rate, leave it where it was and just revert the Vsmite change. (and some other things)

The problem is "A" and their solution is "B C D E..."

This won't do anything, at all.

The VSmite change was a reduction to it's crit rate scaling and was relatively minor. The biggest impact of it was inside Abyssea due to the +CHD atma's, otherwise it's only a ~5% crit rate change.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18707-Nerfing-Ukko-Vsmite-so-lazy-players-can-be-more-useful?p=258456&viewfull=1#post258456

Victory Smite 1K/2K/3K

Ukko's got it worse

I'm going to go out and say it - you probably would get blown away by real melee dmg in a party situation. Anyone parsing you would call your MNK's dmg out and ask that you change to something else - even a THF or NIN would be a large step up. At that point everything above that you typed out doesn't matter. Do you think people care if what your fighting does 2-3 less TP moves during the entire fight? Do you think that killing it 1-2 minutes slower is not a big deal? If you have ever killed anything in the optimum setup, you would know that 1-2 minutes is MASSIVE. HUGE. If you played competitively you would know that a 5-10 second delay where your character is doing nothing is 20-60k dmg difference when you're playing against other competitive players.

Not everyone multi-boxes or has the luxury to suck and just brush it off.
If you're making an alliance to kill something like Albumen or Schah, why on earth would you come MNK and make everyone else in the alliance carry your weight. As a MNK you're just a burden, dead-weight, not even covering the extra HP your very presence adds to the mob.

This is exactly like BST back in the day - "but but but I want a spot in alliance/pt" - too bad, you suck. Got problems with it? Stop defending this BS Job and maybe SE will fix it.

Look at the expectations of MNK - and this is exactly what is wrong with the MNK community.

Why would you invite a MNK if they're the weakest melee class?

It seems like MNK has become the go-to-job for people who just want to suck and force that suckyness on others.

Burger-flippers and welfare cheque collectors.

Hey Monks, Get a real job.

It's SE. It's an update for PUP with potential SAM benefits. It was never about Monk!

The JAs update were drawn from an office lottery for the lulz.

The actual solution is: The CHEAPEST solution for the whole range of problems: Increase Base Damage and Delay.

Still it's 10%!!! It's like the whole different class now! We have gone from thoroughly useless to marginally useless.

If that's the difference between a clear and a wipe, yes.

bunch of people butt devastated monk isn't the most damage dealing job under perfect conditions.

Not complaining about a fix, but I'm pretty shocked a player was so anal about something as simple as a spelling error on an infrequently used item. Wow.

So it's 2017, can we come together as adults and agree that "butt hurt/devistated/whatever" is the dumbest god damn thing a human being has ever said. Next to yolo, swag, vape and dab.

And agree to never use them again. The world would be a better place.

It has been argued and proven to death - the safest way to avoid a wipe is to kill it faster than it can kill you. They made Omen bosses' devastating moves gated by HP triggers to try and stop people from zerging. People zerg because zerging is the safest and most efficient way to kill something.
MNK kills the slowest out of all of the melee classes thus MNK is the least safest class in THAT situation.
If you take the time factor out of it, sure MNK's are great for killing stuff. But SMNs, RNGs and BLMs are safer. So MNK has no specific purpose..
I'm one of the best SMNs on any server for zergs - and I have arguably one of the best geared MNKs. I'm calling for a nerf to SMNs and a massive buff to MNK. Between these two jobs I have a plethora of other jobs just as well geared that are all perfectly fine.
MNK is in a complete league of its own in terms of how awful it is.
The funny thing is, all these MNKs that are saying the job is fine would probably be light years behind me in a parse on anything.
The type that were buying delve clears and Loki Keftan's from my MNK or paying for PL's.

How about Aqreqaq / Aqreaq bomblet or whatever it is? That's still wrong lol. And no "but something" is definitely not the dumbest thing ever said. I'm also not entirely sure the world will improve much if it's never said again.

While hoping:
1. Your zerg isn't *** by 5% unresisted amnesia.
2. It dies before full dispel gives it an opportunity to follow up with a really painful attack.
3. Stuns aren't resisted.
4. Any other number of things that could go wrong, tied to a NMs TP based attacks, don't happen.

Somebody's tooting their own horn.

Well SMN and MNK take literally zero skill to play, and he's got the money to gear them both, so can't say he's wrong.

Monk is actually pretty useful in Domain Invasion. Their SB2 is much more useful for that fight than killing it faster, since domain inviasion points = swings and killing slower for more swings etc.

Do you have any idea how *** annoying I is when Quetz spams back to back to back to back cyclone wings and you've been asleep for 5 minutes? If more people played MNK, we wouldn't suffer so much during Quetz bead farming.

There, I found a MNK purpose in today's meta.

I don't know....

Other than WAR, any DD doesn't really take any skill. I say WAR takes some skill because it takes hate way to easily (at least mine does, but I blame my Conqueror on that).

Thought that was my job