Police And Alcohol

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Police and Alcohol
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 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-02-15 09:58:54
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Police and Alcohol.
I was pretty shocked that it is in their union contract that they can still come to work while intoxicated and not be punished... how does that even get worked out? That or they talk about how they send guys that come in to work that have been driking and then they send them home with pay... I think this is all pretty ridiculous... they also highlight a few other jobs that are aloowed to have a few drinks before coming in or while on the job I guess..

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Do you think your police department has a zero-tolerance policy for alcohol?

Think again.

Many suburban Chicago departments actually have clauses in their union contracts which prevent any kind of discipline for officers with substantial amounts of alcohol in their systems -- even those nearing the state definition of legally drunk, an investigation by the Better Government Association and NBC Chicago reveals. "I worry about it every day," said Sam Pulia, the mayor of west suburban Westchester, Ill.


Follow @NBCNewsUS Pulia, himself a former Westchester police officer, tried unsuccessfully to stop ratification of his department’s union contract which only allows discipline against officers when they hit an alcohol level of .05.

"I could argue that you are half-drunk," Pulia said. "I still believe that police officers are held to a higher standard."

Pulia argues that no one with alcohol in their systems should be driving a squad car or carrying a gun. And he thinks it sends the wrong message to officers to set a number which could be perceived as an allowable limit.

Westchester is not alone. Other Illinois police officers in Forest Park, Glendale Heights, and South Barrington also have a limit of .05. In Elmwood Park and Oak Park, the limit is the state definition of legally drunk: .08 or higher. "I think it places the city at great risk," said Walter Zalisko, a retired police chief who now runs Police Management Consultants International in Fort Myers, Fla. "Zero would be the wise choice, that you can’t have any alcohol."

But how much alcohol really is too much? Although the Illinois State Police and Cook County Sheriff have set their limits at zero, many police departments say they believe some low limits must be built in to allow for incidentals such as a glass of wine at dinner before the overnight shift or even a shot of cough medicine.

"People who are more used to drinking will have less impairment," said Dr. David Zich of Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago. "However, we still believe in subtle testing, that there really is no safe level at which no impairment occurs."

Indeed, Zich says scores of studies have indicated that even at lower blood alcohol levels, some kind of impairment occurs -- especially regarding drowsiness, tasks requiring divided attention, or "tracking" activities, which would include driving a car.

"There have literally been hundreds of studies since the 1950s," Zich said. "Even at low levels, you cannot reliably perform without impairment."

James Fell agrees. Fell is a senior research scientist for the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation in Calverton, Md., and he says "impairment, and especially impairment for driving, starts at the first drink."

Fell’s organization conducted a study which found drivers 21 and older, with a blood alcohol level of .02 to .049, were three to four times more likely to be involved in a fatal single-vehicle crash.

Even the state’s own definition of "legally drunk" seems to be in the minority, when compared to other nations around the world. Among countries responding to a World Health Organization study, 28 percent set their blood alcohol content (BAC) limit at zero to .03. Another 39 percent set limits between .04 and .06. Only 26 percent of the nations surveyed have adopted higher limits.

While Pulia expressed outrage at his community’s standard, his police chief insisted that even if she can’t discipline an officer for blood alcohol levels below .05, she won’t let them get in a squad car.

Advertise | AdChoices"We’ve never had a problem," said chief April Padalik. "We would follow policy and procedure, and that employee would be removed from duty."

Padalik indicated the officer would be sent home. Pulia said he found that idea encouraging, but that he still believed such officers should be disciplined.

"Paying someone a salary for being sent home for consuming alcohol certainly does not sit well with me or the public who ultimately bear the costs," he said. "Alcohol/drugs and cops don’t mix."

Officials in Oak Park and Elmwood Park, where the limit was set at .08, insist they likewise would not tolerate an officer with lower levels of alcohol, even if they can’t discipline him for showing up at work in an impaired condition.

"If those test results come in in anything greater than zero, we are not going to put that officer on the street," said Paul Volpe, the Elmwood Park Village Manager. "We have a zero tolerance policy."

Volpe said the officer would likely be put on desk duty.

The Chicago Police Department sets its blood alcohol limit at .02. This week, the City of Chicago agreed to a $4.1 million settlement, payable to the family of a man shot by a police officer who reportedly had been drinking prior to his shift.


 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2013-02-15 10:07:27
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there's a lot of potential mental anguish in that profession....

what would you have them do, talk about thier feelings like a bunch of damn women!?!?

lol
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 Odin.Liela
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By Odin.Liela 2013-02-15 10:35:06
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It would take a lot of mental anguish to be a police officer. But on the other hand, if I'm being held hostage while police negotiate a release, I'd kinda rather that they be 100% clear-headed and steady-handed. :/ (Of course, I don't plan on being held hostage or needing a police officer anytime soon or ever, either.)
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-02-15 10:38:58
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There's a lot of potential mental anguish in any job... I think if we're paying them to "protect and Serve" then they should be sober when they're pulling over a drunk driver...

They just awarded a $4.1 million payout to a family of a man shot by an officer that had been reportedly drinking before his shift... all that tax payer money down the shitter and then they wonder where all the money went to hire new officers or get new equipment...
 Shiva.Ashmulder
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By Shiva.Ashmulder 2013-02-15 10:42:33
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And yet us firefigthers have a tolerance 0 policy regarding alcohol...
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2013-02-15 10:45:23
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Siren.Flavin said: »
There's a lot of potential mental anguish in any job... I think if we're paying them to "protect and Serve" then they should be sober when they're pulling over a drunk driver...

They just awarded a $4.1 million payout to a family of a man shot by an officer that had been reportedly drinking before his shift... all that tax payer money down the shitter and then they wonder where all the money went to hire new officers or get new equipment...

It was actually decided that they don't have to "protect and serve". It's double speak.

Cops are above the law. Anyone who's shocked at this point is just naive.
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 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2013-02-15 10:57:17
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America is "COPS" (Citizens On Patrol Services), Canada is "To Protect and Serve", which they do.

Although i'm sure it's not unheard of, I've honestly never heard of a police officer in my city even coming in to work with alcohol in their system. Of course, this may be a variable difference between Calgary (where i live) and say, Elmwood Park.

Our officers don't just protect the community, they also serve in various social groups, such as schools as a laison officer, Big Brothers and Sisters organizations, charity events, concerts, community councilors, sports directors, and so forth.

Personally, i agree that Officers, EMT, and Firefighters should be held to a higher standard, especially policemen and women. I didn't see mention of giving the officers why may appear intoxicated a breathalyzer or any other test that they would give roadside drunk drivers, to see if they should perform duties, even inside the station. And hell, if they are drunk enough that they shouldn't be out on the street, what makes you think you'd want them at the desk to begin with? They have detailed reports to go through, which can be easily lost, messed up, or destroyed, which would see a suspect, who may in fact be guilty, set free because of misfiled paperwork, putting the good people at an even greater risk.
 Odin.Liela
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By Odin.Liela 2013-02-15 11:02:10
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Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
There's a lot of potential mental anguish in any job... I think if we're paying them to "protect and Serve" then they should be sober when they're pulling over a drunk driver...

They just awarded a $4.1 million payout to a family of a man shot by an officer that had been reportedly drinking before his shift... all that tax payer money down the shitter and then they wonder where all the money went to hire new officers or get new equipment...

It was actually decided that they don't have to "protect and serve". It's double speak.

Cops are above the law. Anyone who's shocked at this point is just naive.

I'm naive. :-( I get startled for a minute every time something like this comes up. I still have that thing in my head that they taught us in kindergarten that if you need help all you have to do is find a cop and cops are like superman, they can fix anything. ;; I know it's not true but it's still in my head!
By Catharsis 2013-02-15 11:07:50
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See what Super Troopers did! It made kids think that they can grow up and be Alcoholics AND Cops! lmao
 Lakshmi.Rearden
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By Lakshmi.Rearden 2013-02-15 11:10:30
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Seems more like an incident happened and someone did some digging into departments in the area, only to find out some had dated BAC policies.

We used to be able to have some drinks at lunch in the military too.

Thanks Obama.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2013-02-15 11:13:50
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Odin.Liela said: »
I'm naive. :-( I get startled for a minute every time something like this comes up. I still have that thing in my head that they taught us in kindergarten that if you need help all you have to do is find a cop and cops are like superman, they can fix anything. ;; I know it's not true but it's still in my head!

This is actually a perfect example of American Propaganda lol.
 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2013-02-15 11:20:17
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Shiva.Ashmulder said: »
And yet us firefigthers have a tolerance 0 policy regarding alcohol...

I used to party with firefighters that would get calls in the middle of the good times, & they'd go put out the fire , or get the cat out of the tree, or w/e, then come back & continue to whoop it up.

so don't act like it's your profession who's ***doesn't stink, it's more likely your nation.
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 Asura.Yomisha
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By Asura.Yomisha 2013-02-15 11:23:35
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Siren.Mosin said: »
Shiva.Ashmulder said: »
And yet us firefigthers have a tolerance 0 policy regarding alcohol...

I used to party with firefighters that would get calls in the middle of the good times, & they'd go put out the fire , or get the cat out of the tree, or w/e, then come back & continue to whoop it up.

so don't act like it's your profession who's ***doesn't stink, it's more likely your nation.
I really don't think that's what he was getting at. <.<
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-02-15 11:24:41
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What do you think he was getting at then?
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2013-02-15 11:25:45
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uuuummmmmm.......

I'd like to see that interpreted another way
 Leviathan.Thedirtyhobo
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By Leviathan.Thedirtyhobo 2013-02-15 11:30:48
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Siren.Flavin said: »
they should be sober when they're pulling over a drunk driver...

They would be, depending on your definition of 'sober'. The article says most limits are around .05, and the legal driving limit is .08 in most places. They would still legally be considered unimpared and therefore perfectly legal to drive. This statute is most likely just so people can't get fired for having a bottle of beer or two on their lunch break, .05% really is nothing when it comes to being drunk.
 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2013-02-15 11:32:27
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funny this topic came up, I watched "flight" last night.

and almost just wrote some spoiler stuff un-spoilered!

/panic
 Shiva.Ashmulder
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By Shiva.Ashmulder 2013-02-15 13:09:27
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Siren.Mosin said: »
Shiva.Ashmulder said: »
And yet us firefigthers have a tolerance 0 policy regarding alcohol...

I used to party with firefighters that would get calls in the middle of the good times, & they'd go put out the fire , or get the cat out of the tree, or w/e, then come back & continue to whoop it up.

so don't act like it's your profession who's ***doesn't stink, it's more likely your nation.

Rules are pretty clear, get caugh with alcohol in your system your suspended. its pretty straight forward really, and it has happened in the past.
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2013-02-15 13:23:26
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Lovely union contracts. Gotta love it.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-02-15 13:43:25
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I passed this information over to my editor Flavin. We might follow this up by asking our own police department their policies. Thanks.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2013-02-15 13:51:56
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Shiva.Ashmulder said: »
Siren.Mosin said: »
Shiva.Ashmulder said: »
And yet us firefigthers have a tolerance 0 policy regarding alcohol...
I used to party with firefighters that would get calls in the middle of the good times, & they'd go put out the fire , or get the cat out of the tree, or w/e, then come back & continue to whoop it up. so don't act like it's your profession who's ***doesn't stink, it's more likely your nation.
Rules are pretty clear, get caugh with alcohol in your system your suspended. its pretty straight forward really, and it has happened in the past.

yeah I suppose breaking the rules being stupid is a whole lot different that out-right condoning(sp?) stupidity. (I guess idk what those guys' policy was around here, but I'd imagine it's frowned upon)
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-02-15 13:56:04
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Drinking is bad etc, but why are people shocked at this? If 0.08 is the limit to drive in the US, why can't someone work with that much alcohol in his blood? I'm all for tolerance 0 on alcohol while driving etc, but it feels like a double standard to some.
for one it calls into question pretty much everything they do... You arrest someone and they find out that the arresting officer has been drinking on the job it throws a whole giant sized wrench into the process as everything he/she does starts to get questioned... as noted in the article they just made a big payout for someone who got shot by an officer while under the influence of alcohol... whether it's under the legal limit (to drive) in the US or not should be something that is irrelevant... We're also a nation that has a pretty high limit comparitively worldwide... and whether people want to admit it or not the consumption of alcohol can and does affect you even when you are under the .08 limit... It affects their credibility and their effectiveness...

Edit: and not only that but every time they asked a commanding officer about it and the officers under their command they always say that they just send em home and that they would not let them perform their duties if they had been drinking... so they get a paycheck and get to sleep it off at home...
 
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2013-02-15 14:36:06
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one thing we are neglecting to mention here is that liquor would really liven those long boring shifts.
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-02-15 14:44:20
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Siren.Mosin said: »
one thing we are neglecting to mention here is that liquor would really liven those long boring shifts.
Or just help em doze off lol...
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-02-15 14:48:15
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
I don't understand the logic. You are willing to let someone use the deadliest weapon in the US with a 0.08 limit of alcohol in their blood, but a police officer wouldn't be able to use a gun with a 0.08 limit.

If the employer wants to have a higher standard than the law, that's awesome, but I don't see why people should be outraged they are following the alcohol limit for driving as a standard.

If a police officer would be above the limit, then press criminal charges.
No tolerance policy is best in this situation because it ensures that the variable of alcohol is not involved.

If an EMT/Paramedic is caught with 0.04 in California, not only is their license suspended but they lose their career. These are jobs that are life and death. Even being tipsy affects the scales of judgment, and could cost a life.
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-02-15 14:52:02
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He's referring to cars being the deadliest weapon, and it's an accurate statement.
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